Sid: You know I’m almost chuckling as I think about this but the ancient Rabbis say that when the Rams horn, the shofar is blown it’s not just a musical instrument, but literally it drives the devil crazy, mischugah.  Mischugah is a Hebrew word for crazy, now we’re going to have Don Heist on his CD that we’re releasing called “Take Me In” this has worship music with it, the anointing is so strong that when you hear this music it’s going to destroy every yoke of the enemy.  But there’s one thing missing and that’s the Word of God.  You get the Glory of God, the anointing and I want you to soak in this music and you get the Word or God and we’re making available my brand new DVD; it’s based on forty years of doing investigative reporting of the best Generals that God has on healing.  And when you get all these streams of insight on the Word together on healing, I believe as you listen to the full teaching, that one or more of these insights will be the key and then the Glory that’s going to come on you from Don Heist’s blowing the shofar. In fact, that’s what we’ll do… Let’s go to that teaching.

Sid’s teaching excerpt: This is interesting, the word sickness in the Greek in the New Testament can also be translated evil; isn’t that interesting?  That means sickness is evil.  Can you picture Jesus having evil on Him?  He didn’t have any, but He took, He bore your evil, your sickness on Himself, that’s why He said, “Father if I have to I will, not My will but Your will be done.”  He understood He had never experienced evil on Himself before until He bore your sins and your sicknesses and your pains and your diseases.  I have a friend, he’s a Messianic Rabbi by the name of David Rosenberg and he never got anyone healed in his congregation.  He honestly says this and one day he got angry and there was someone with cancer and he commanded the spirit of cancer to leave that person.  He never did something so bold as that, and the person got healed!  And now he, he’s got a formula, but its working; if it’s working, its okay.  Now when he’s praying for someone sick, he says, “Get out you spirit of cancer, you get out, no it depends on what he’s praying for. But, ha-ha, get out you allergy you know, and he gets almost everyone, not everyone but many people are healed; he never had any one healed.  You see evil can be sickness or be a demon and if you don’t know cover your bases.  Communion, the early church understood communion, we don’t understand it today.  Do you know why Jesus said, “Do this often?” At every meal they had bread and wine; they didn’t have water, the water wasn’t too clean.  Every meal they had bread and wine so what Jesus said was well look, if you want to fake people out, every time you eat do it in remembrance of what I did for you.  Three times a day, not once a week.  Not once a month, not once a year, not some priest doing it.  My Bible says we’re all priests.  Three times a day, and not only that communion is progressive; meaning you get just a little bit healed each time you take it.  Like medicine can be progressive right; you take your medicine for awhile and then all of a sudden the symptoms disappear.  Well your communion can be progressive and believe, believe that each time you are getting a little more healed.  Soaking, oh, that is so important.  You don’t come and listen to music laying on the floor with a laundry list.  Here’s something that I was thinking about even this morning, either lay on the floor, sit in a comfortable chair, play some music.  Say God, this is my time to be with You, to communune with You.  I’m not asking a bunch of petitions, I just want You and visualize because I’ve done this; Jesus like I do in my office at the desk, sitting there.  Visualize Him coming up and touching you; maybe He’s not even saying anything.  Maybe He’s just praying for strength for you, for encouragement.  But not your laundry list of things, that’s your time for you to commune with God.  I try to do that almost everyday.  Forgiveness is the number one area I have found that releases healing.  Now, forgiveness, many people teach is a process.  It is because feelings take a little time to diminish it is a process but is an immediate act of faith on your part because Jesus said, “I will forgive you the same degree you forgive other people.”  What if you were to die, how would you like to be 50% forgiven?  You wouldn’t no?  So are you going to forgive everyone?  Yes, but they don’t deserve it, well neither did you.  Does that mean that I have to trust that person?  No, they have to earn the trust but does that mean you have to forgive them because you will drink the same poison you want them to drink; you will drink it when you are in unforgiven.  Is there anyone that you want to drink poison over?  No matter what they’ve done in your life, not me, not me, no matter what they’ve done in your life.  Very important principle, the minute and it doesn’t take more than a minute to get offended with someone, spouse, child, someone you work with, someone you go to school with, the second you must choose to forgive them.  The longer you wait the more you mow it over the longer the process of feelings take.  You don’t ever want it, you don’t have to ever get there.  You can be walking in forgiveness twenty-four seven, but you must do it instantly.  I’ve seen so many people healed once they’ve forgiven.  But you know who most people have to forgive? God, God.  You’d say, well I don’t really have to forgive God, but you harbor something against Him because you don’t understand His kingdom.  The first one you want to forgive, and He doesn’t need the forgiveness, I might add, you are drinking the poison; you follow me, you don’t want that poison.  You need to forgive God, you need to forgive yourself, you need to forgive others no matter what they have done because it’s not worth taking the poison you want them to have.  Plain not worth it; besides that it interrupts your intimacy with God, you don’t want that.  You have a choice to worry or trust; Luke 12:22 says, “Then He said to his disciples, and this is a command, do not worry.”  Did you know that when you worry you’re in pride?  P R I D E, did you know that God despises pride?  When you worry; I’m just reminding you in the next time you worry you’re in pride.  When you are in fear, why?  You’re saying, I take this back from you back because you can’t solve it, therefore I’m going to worry which won’t solve anything either, but I feel better.  You’re divided; you’re divided when you worry…

Don Heist Shofar Worship excerpt 09.55.0 – 11:38.1

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah, his name is Chuck Pierce.  He has such a unique gift of prophecy and on yesterday’s broadcast he brought out that he prophesied back in 2005 that a black man would be the President of the United States.  He was warned not to say that, but that’s what God said, and that’s what he said; and that’s what became in the White House we have the first African American President the United States.  And then he said that, “As a result of this in affect it would lift the curse of slavery that because of the fact there was an African American in the White House.”  But yet he then had a vision and he saw that in May of 2011 there would be a statement made that would divide the United States even though it was now united, it would be even divided because it would hit at the root cause of slavery.  It would hit cause of all of the separations of peoples in the world and that is anti-Semitism.  You prophesied what would happen in May of 2011 Chuck Pierce.

Chuck: Yes, and Sid I want to say you know, by visiting with you I don’t know of anybody I would listen to this program; all of you listening out there each day because it’s easy for this man to bring us into an understanding of fullness.  Now, let me go back now, what I prophesied was, “The curse would be neutralized.”  Now I want all of you listeners to hear this, because this book explains this, the curses in your life can be neutralized without you really dealing with the root.  And what I saw was when a black man would become president it would neutralize the curse that had so pulled us apart in slavery in this nation.  But of course the root of that usually is money, but in the midst of it this curse would be neutralized.  Except then in May of 2008 God showed me that President Obama would come and make a statement that would start pulling us apart really from our root covenant plan of God which is our alignment with Israel.  So a curse can be neutralized, but then all of a sudden we can activate a deeper root which is anti-Semitism and things begin to happen.  Now notice what happened with President Obama when he made this statement in May, was this the first time a President had made a statement like this?  Absolutely Not, President Bush made a statement, see I think in America we get so caught up politically that we miss spiritually what’s going on and our alignment is a spiritual alignment and we have to understand our covenant with the God of Israel even though we live in America.  And in the midst of this what happened was, President Bush made a statement at one point about Israel and we saw Katrina sweep in.  We now see President Obama making this statement about Israel returning to its borders of 1967 which were indefensible until they gained a rule and established an order that would protect them and he said, “Return back so you can’t defend yourself again.”  That’s actually what he was saying, notice what happened.  The atmosphere of America changed so much at that point you see Joplin occurring, you see Alabama stirring up, you see an influx of elements in our atmosphere to awaken us that something is wrong in this nation.

Sid: Now do you see any tie in because about that time that President Obama opened his mouth and said, “Israel should return to its pre‘67 borders, the head of the international monetary fund ran into a sexual abuse charges?

Chuck: Well absolutely, because all of a sudden what you’re going to see is you’re going to see the ruling force behind all anti-Semitism is mammon.  And remember what Jesus said, “You can’t serve God and mammon both.  So the two always link together, now all of a sudden you see the leader of what is actually ruling economic structures show his true colors of being accused of forcing himself upon the opposite sex.  That also is anti-Semitic because anti-Christ works these ways.  It works first of all against Israel, then it works against prophets, then it works against woman, then it works against the lesser people whom God chose first in a nation to understand the land.  I’m telling you, and then it works from a perversity stand point, it twists what’s going on.  I’m telling you it is time now to defeat our enemy who is opposing us or else we get caught under this atmosphere.  I refuse for us to be caught under an atmosphere that God does not intend for us to walk under Sid.

Sid: Now will?  Let me ask you this as a prophet, is it set in concrete is it not set in concrete the future of America?  Will America go back to its first love, and that’s a love of God and a blessing to the Jewish people in Israel or will it miss its destiny?

Chuck: This is what I see, I see in these next three years, God showed me in May 2008, three years ahead to May 2011.  Now I’m looking into the next three years; I see what the Lord’s going to do is from region to region in America.  Do like what he did in the book of Revelation, deal with the church in that region to see how the present church goes beyond where they are into its alignment of fullness where Jew and Gentile become one.  If they refuse to do that, areas in America will come under the rule of the enemy.

Sid: What do you see, well let’s go back to the church what do you see happening to the church in the near future?  What changes do you see there with denominations etc?

Chuck: Well, I see the church as moving out of a church age into a Kingdom age and because of that we’re having to express Kingdom in a way in which we never expressed it before.  I don’t think church actually and of course you know this Sid, but for our listeners out there, church means has two dynamics; it means to gather for fellowship or to gather for war.  Now, what I think we’re coming into is an expression of fullness of Kingdom where you have to understand God’s covenant plan for Jews. You have to understand that the gentiles have been grafted into this plan and it’s almost like torah and spirit coming together and we have to choose to rise up into a nation above all nations and begin to demonstrate the power of God in a way that we have lost this demonstration in America.  Other nations of the world, if you’re listening, you have to hear this also because it will determine how a nation goes based upon how we see a Kingdom of priest began to rise up and demonstrate the power of the King who rules us.

Sid: Now, you and another of others took out an ad recently in the Wall Street Journal, briefly what did this ad say?

Chuck: It talked about our support of Israel.

Sid: Now, why would you spend money and put your reputation on in an ad like that and it came out right after the President’s proclamation?

Chuck: Well, I’ll tell you why; first of all I believe when God made covenant with Abraham, Abraham the Hebrew, the word Hebrew means, one who crosses over.  I believe that covenant that God made with Abraham that he brought Abraham into that he separated a people out of a nation that held them and crossed them out of Egypt and brought then toward their promise.  I believe I am a part of that covenant.  I honor the God of Israel, I worship the God of Israel, through His Son that He sent to display who He fully was, and who He fully is, I literally worship the God of Israel who made covenant with a land called, Israel.  And because of that I am willing to put my faith out on a line and confess that faith and confess that one day the fullness of what God has said will manifest in this earth.

Sid: Now, I don’t want to get too far drifted, I want our people to heart this, “What did God show you about China and Israel?  And what did God show you about the future of the economy of China and what they would own in the US?

Chuck: Well, in 1986 God visited me and showed me ten year increments of what would be happening; I called it the future war of the church.  And in those ten year increment what He showed me was specifically how China would advance and change in the earth to become the ruling economic power of the earth.  Now, here was the strange thing; I wrote and shared that China in 2016, I shared what would happen in all ten year increments.  But in 2016 I shared that China would then become predominate in its influence economically worldwide.  I actually had people address me because the IMS shared that China would not become predominate in its rule of economics until the year 2026.  IMS came back this year, we have a record of the article saying we were wrong, by 2016 China will become dominate in its rule of economic…

Sid: But what you see in reference to China and Israel is so amazing, we’ll pick up right there on tomorrows broadcast.

Sid: I tell you the rain is falling right now on Jewish people and Jewish people are ready to receive the Lord, their just waiting for you.  I have on the telephone a man that God has been dealing with for a number of yea rs, John Finn; who has had three visitations from the Lord to show how we can literally recapture what the first Christians had.  What the first literally Jewish believer’s in Jesus had, recapture in a way that many people aren’t looking for.  Now John Finn, I really believe that, I have to tell you that when I first heard what the Lord told you, my brain went almost tilt for just a split second because I’ve been looking for the return of the miracles to win the unsaved.  But the Lord is taking you in another direction, which probably will result in more miracles then going just for the miracles.  Do you agree?

John: Ha-ha, I do now I do believe that miracles and healings are the dinner bell call to salvation.  There is no doubt that the signs and the wonders are what perk peoples ears and get their attention.  But it’s also true, that the New Testament teaches that the discipleship comes through Sons and Daughters, not just anointed meetings.  And that’s the heart and the jest at what He was saying that February of 2001 when he said, this move is not a move of the masses it’s a move of the individual and as it was in the beginning so it must be now I’m moving in relationships.  And that started me on a quest that whole rest of the year and then finally I found myself in Edmonton, Alberta Canada once again in November of 2001 and I was ministering in a church.  Let me tell you Sid, this was a cool church, it was an older church building with kind of a white stucco, but it had seen it’s better days, the wood work was worn the stucco had some cracks and holes in it and it was in kind of a red light district of Edmonton.  And I found out in talking to the pastor before the service that they minister to a lot of people from off the street, ex-cons, people with drug problems and such, but I was schedule to speak that Sunday evening and again in the middle of the worship service I saw Jesus come from about where the Worship Team was playing, six or seven steps over to me and this time the power was turned up.  My strength left me; the Pastor next to me immediately fell to His knees and then face down on the floor.  As Jesus came walking over to me He said this, “I love these kinds of people, and that was enough to blow my mind right there because I’m looking around and I know these people came in off the street.  But what He meant by that is that there are no facades, they are real and genuine people and He loves to meet them where they are at.  And my strength left me, I feel to my knees and later, three of our Bible School said, Jesus walked right by them afterwards, they saw Him as well.  But He came over to me and He said, “You’ve learned much from your study of the Word and the people that I have brought across your path the last few months; He said, I want you to start a house church and a House Church network; and I want you to structure it in such a way to facilitate the development of House Churches around the world.  And I asked Him why?  I had the opportunity in this visitation and I asked Him why he wanted me to do it.  It is against the time to come, in other words it’s a resource against the time to come you know.  And is what we see happening right now, the Body of Christ moving outside the traditional; meeting people that Jesus loves, where they live.  Whether it be the person off the street or just out of jail, that’s what He delights in and in fact later that night in the prayer line I was laying hands on a young woman.  I found out later that she was twenty-two years old and I so a mini-vision as I prayed and I saw her dressing a mannequin in a department store window.  And I saw her, you know in that display case fixing up the whole display case.  And I had to prophecy to her because I heard the Father speaking so I just said, “Father God is speaking to you” and this is what He’s saying,” and He just shared his heart about how He gifted her with artistic talents and that He was giving her the ability to put thing together and to make things and to create things and make things beautiful for people to see.  And she just started crying, and started crying and after I shared all of that I asked her “Well, was this accurate?”  And she said, “I just got out of prison for eighteen months for dealing drugs.”  And she said, “I just enrolled in a two year school that would teach me interior design and I just got a job in a store, and I’ve been working on a display case for the display window.”  That is the Lord Jesus’ heart, that is the Father’s heart right there and that’s what we are talking about.  No more spectator, no more church where it’s a spectator sport where people just sit facing all the same direction, facing you know listening to one anointed person.  This is a move of Jesus meeting people where they are at.  Matthew 25 says that when He comes back, the way He’s going to separate the sheep from the goats is this.  I was sick, you visited me, I was in prison you visited me, I was naked, you clothed me, I was thirsty and hungry and you feed me and gave me some to drink.  It is on a very practical level and you can only do that through based out of a home, based out of families, based out of relationships are work, based out of neighborhoods.  And that’s where the Lord is moving and exploding all over the world today and there are so many miracles and so many people raised from the dead.  Sid, do you know that there are over fifty-two nations right now that have been documented to have people raised from the dead from Christians.

Sid: I was not aware of that.

John: In fact I talked to a brother, I don’t have documentation but he says that it’s now over 70 nations have been documented to have people raised from the dead by Christians.

Sid: Let me take you back to something that the Lord said to you.  You need to start these house churches because of what’s going to come.  What is going to come?

John: Where to start?  You know, one of the things that He told me, and let me just take you to this to 2005, when I was contemplating the changes that happened in the previous ten years from 1995 to 2005, in fact I was just driving down the road and I was saying and I would saying 1995; the Clinton Administration.  The 9/11 happened and here we were in 2005 and in war and I don’t even recognize my country for what it was ten years ago.  And He said, “If you think that you don’t recognize it now, truly I tell you, truly I’m telling you the truth, you won’t recognize it in another ten years.”  And some of the things that He’s talked about when the previous election, the Bush – Kerry elections there was a different feel to it in the spirit.  And I prayed and I was asking Him what that feel was and He said this, “It’s a spirit of socialism, and it can be delayed, but it won’t be stopped.”    And I said, “Where does it come from?”  And He said, “It comes from Europe,” and he says “There are those in America who want America to be European style nation.”  And you know all of that entails, Sid are difficulties for Christians in the traditional format.  What we see around the world, in times past when we say “Yes, look at the growth of Chinese House Churches you know, 130 to 200,000,000 Chinese all in house churches.  But look at the persecution they have and we excuse, we write off home based churches because we think it’s just for times of persecution.  But I’m telling you, when the Lord said that to me in November of ’01 and He said, I want you to do this as a research against a time to come, well you know that’s enough to get you thinking and I think that people sense now that something has changed in our world.  And that’s why so many people are leaving the church.  Not because they don’t like the church, and I am the first to acknowledge and bless and bless the traditional structure but millions upon millions of people are saying, “I want more, I want more.”

Sid: But you know millions of people are feeling that but they don’t see an option.

John: And that’s very true and the thing is that home based churches are under the radar of the traditional church.  It’s kind of like going to a particular news network; you are not going to get the news from a certain point of view if all you do is hear that one channel.   And it’s similar to that because within the context of the traditional, I think we said yesterday, that a lot of pastors think that revival to them means they are going to have to add an additional service on Sunday.  Or that more people are going to come to their church and they don’t realize that God doesn’t need their structure.  For the first 300 years Christianity started out in the homes, but the first home church if you will was Adam and Eve and the Lord in the Garden and He’s always had that structure.  He’s always moved first from the home and the family and the relationships in the community; and that’s what He’s doing in the world today.  Yeah, the Word and the Spirit do agree.

Sid: You know I’m reminded Jesus was asked what was the foremost the most important commandments and he said the, Schamah.  Which is to “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your strength and to love your neighbor as yourself.  It seems to me that a church that’s more like an extension of the family in the home there’s more likelihood for that to occur than a mega church.

John: Well, and that’s again if you look in the new testament it talks about the older men teaching the younger and the older women teaching the younger.  It even mentions the older Moms you know in the New Testament Paul told Timothy to let the older Moms teach the new moms what it’s like to be a Mom.  Well, you can’t do that in a program; that is only done through relationships.  I remember when our first born, our first born was not sleeping through the night and we didn’t know why and my wife went to a mother of four that we knew and she came over and she said, her name was Jeanne and she said, “Show me what you do, show me how you put the baby to sleep.  She came over in the evening and Barb got out first born son, he’s six months old ready for bed and everything.  The first thing she said is that he’s cold; he’s waking up because he’s cold.  Well you know what, we put some more blankets on him and that solved the problem.   But she would never, she couldn’t have gotten that through a program; it’s only through the relationships and that’s the richness of it.  Accountability comes through relationships.  Sometimes people will say, yes but what about accountability?  And I’m telling you accountability comes through the richness of the relationships that you have with others.

Sid: Well, a lot of people think that if you’re not a member of an organized church then you don’t have accountability, but the truth of the matter is most Pastors don’t even know the names of all the members of their church there so large. Whoop, our time is up.

Sid: If you’ve been listening to my guest this week, John Fenn I believe that the Holy Spirit is just bubbling within you because he had several visitations from Jesus about what is going to happen in the future, about what’s going to happen to our economy and how there will be, and what’s going to happen to our government.  And we will have only one option, but to go back to the way the church was originally and he had three visitations in particular.  The first one, he was showing what would happen in the future and that literally given a history lesson of what normally happens a move of God’s Spirit, everyone’s excited, everyone get’s charged up then they start churches and then they start Bible Schools and then they fossilize and then God has to have another move of God’s Spirit.  And then in the second move of God’s visitation that He had, the Lord started talking to him about what the first church was like and it was relationship based not program based, family based, not mega church based.  And then the third visitation He told you where he was headed with you was house churches.  Tell me about that third visitation.

John: Well, I had actually concluded about three weeks before and told my wife, I said, “You know I really don’t want to pastor a church again, but if I ever did I would do it like Paul did, because the whole of the New Testament was written to people sitting in Living Rooms in home based churches.  And I kind of let that slid and then November 4^th of 2001 at Edmonton, Alberta comes Jesus right in the middle of the worship.  And one of the things that He said to me as He came over was that, “I want you to be a resource, that you can facilitate the development of house churches around the world.”  And I was kind of taken about when He said, “I want you to start a house church network.”  And I would not say flippantly, but I was so surprised and I said, “Well, do you have a name for it?”  And I almost said it like that, and when you are in the Spirit like that what you really have in your heart comes out and so it sounds putrid, I’m horrified that I said that to the Lord, but that’s how it came out because I was so surprised.  And He just shot back right away, He said, “The Church without Walls International.”  Now what is interesting is if you goggle Church Without Walls you’ll get over a million hits.  It’s like calling a church, Grace or something like that.  But for me and for what he wanted for me that’s The Church without Walls International” and that’s as being out of Tulsa.  But then He laid hands on me, and He said, “You’ve been doing the work of an apostle but now I’m laying hands on you ordaining you as an apostle for this task.”  And He gave me further instructions that we could start; you know gather people together and start and He would regulate the growth of it to grow by the quality of the relationships.  And that’s really where our heart has been.  We really don’t want to grow for growth sake, we want to grow as we get to know one another, as we network together; and it’s what we’re doing all around the world today.  We have people traveling back and forth getting to know each other and that’s very rich and very relationship rich and very supernatural in the miracles that we see as well.

Sid: Well, I would like to go there right now, I mean you’re telling me things that provoke me to so much jealousy, you’re telling me in these little house churches you have such supernatural phenomena coming in as the glory cloud.  Tell me what occurs when that happens?

John: Well, you know part of it I want to preface it by saying this Sid. When you are realizing that you are doing things the way the New Testament actually describes it, that is knowing that from Matthew through to Revelation these letters went out to people sitting in living rooms and you can actually understand it within that context.  There’s an anointing, there is a confidence, and there’s an endorsement in the Spirit when you are doing things the exact same way that Paul and James and John did things.  And so it’s not unusual, we’ve had many times, not only in our home core church in Tulsa, but in our affiliates around this nation and in Europe and elsewhere and I get the same reports.  For instance, we’ll begin in worship and there’s several people’s eyes are opened up into the Spirit realm and see a white shinny cloud almost like a fog or a midst, the glory cloud that settles upon us and when that happens, and this has happened several times, nobody wants to talk, nobody wants to speak, it’s like the Lord is speaking so individually and so personally to everyone that no one wants to break that silence.  And it’s almost like a download often times where things are just dropped into us and I’ve had people tell me this.  Do you remember two or three weeks ago when we had the glory cloud there, I realized that something was put in me that I just became aware of last night when I was praying; it’s that sort of experience.  But because if you are on the outside and you say, “Awe. I want to experience that and you’re thinking that’s in a traditional church or program or we had a service like that one time.”  I’m telling people that you’re free to do this in your living room at anytime; God will meet you right there you have to think of it in terms of its normal for God to meet us when six to twenty people get together in a living room and seek Him.

Sid: Now, there’s other phenomena that will occur when sometimes every bit of stress leaves everyone; tell me about that.

John: Another thing we found, not only again in Tulsa but I’ve heard it in our Billings, Montana affiliate and elsewhere, and that is what can only be described as a rushing mighty wind that peoples ears are opened up in the spirit realm.  And again we’ve had meetings with ten or twelve people and we had a half a dozen of them see the same thing and that is like a spiritual tornado spinning around.  We’ve had it different times where it’s been a fire and other times when it’s been like a glory cloud spinning around.  One time in particular that stands out where it started in the middle of the room because in the house church we are kind of sitting around in a circle in the livingroom and as we continued to worship the Lord and just stay in His presence that swirling and the rushing sound in our ears grew until that wind, that Devine wind was actually blowing across everybody.  And you could feel it just literally pick up the stress and pick up the worry and the care right out of you and just like pull it out of you.  And it’s just some of the most amazing amazing things happen and again, there’s so many supernatural things that happen so great of a presence of the Lord that we consider this to be normal Christianity.

Sid: Well, one thing I’ve noticed this is the second time that I’ve interviewed you and every time I’ve interviewed you the presence of God is so tangible and I have to believe that this is what occurs in your house meetings.

John: That’s right and there’s something to say too Sid that house church is not a miniature of what we left.  House is not a miniature of what we left, if people are just meeting together and it’s just us four and no more.

Sid: And you have one leader and it’s like a mini-church in most house groups.

John: That’s right then you are not doing a house church.  House church is not based on the house and saying we’re going to have church in it.  It has to be the dynamic as presented in the New Testament which is participatory in nature rather than dictatorial, rather than one…

Sid: But don’t you find that we have so been conditioned to have a one man show that we sit back passively even if we were to come to one of your house church meetings; we’ve been trained not to participate.

John: And there are transition times, there are certainly a transition time where people have to adjust there thinking in so many different areas.  Sometimes it’s just a real step of faith just to go to somebody’s house that they don’t know or that they’re invited by a friend.  But what happens is that it’s so natural and it’s so relaxed and often times afterwards there’s food involved and you get to know one another.

Sid: Oh, that’s where the Jewish side comes in always, we always have food.

John: Well, there’s often times that’s where a lot of the real ministry takes place because you’ll see a couple people grab a plate of food and then go head off in the corner of the living room. And that’s where somebody feels lead to open up about a situation in their lives and that’s where they pray and that’s where they talk it out and that’s where the real discipleship really happens is over food.  And I think that that’s very biblical, very Jewish.  But it’s a supernatural element, that’s what I really want to communicate is that it’s more than people getting together and say we’re going to have church in the house.

Sid: You know even when you say this to me I still am trying to grasp it that the Lord wants with a passion relationship Christianity; speak a little bit about that.

John: Well, it’s not, and what happens in relationship Christianity, think about that.  How does, when the New Testament says for the Father’s to raise up the sons and the older women the younger women and discipleship through sons and daughters rather than just anointed meetings.  What happens is this those who know get an opportunity to bring someone alongside and show them how to do whatever they need to do in this walk through life together.  But then there comes a point where the person that knows how to do it steps back and watches their little friend, their son or daughter in the faith do it on their own.  And that’s the nature of the relationship based elements of it where leadership; my job as an apostle, my job as a leader is to train other leader to lay down the need to always talk to always be in charge.  It is the giving away of the church to the people; it is the empowerment of the people.  That’s where the relationship start, when they realize that you’re a person just like me, yet you know how to walk in the things of the Spirit.  So many times one of the greatest joys in my heart is to watch a person prophecy for the first time or lay hands on a person and watch a person be healed for the first time.  For the realization to come that you know what we are all equal in Christ, the same Jesus lives in each of us and it’s merely our gifts function differently; but that’s all the difference is.  We are all equal, me as an apostle is equal to someone who is a servant whose joy is to set up the chairs in a circle and vacuum the floor before people come.  We are all equal, and when people realize that its servant based and humility based leadership and that our job is to empower the people.

Sid: You know, one of the things that has been troubling me for a long time is the person that has a business card and at the end of their name it says apostle or at the end of their name it says, prophet.  It’s almost like they have to advertise who they are.

John: Don’t get me started on that brother, ha-ha-ha.  You know it’s Jesus said it this way in Mark chapter 10 verses 42 to 46 he said, you know the gentiles in leadership lord their authority and so others serve them.  He said, “It shall not be so among you, if you want to be the greatest leader then become the greatest servant.”

Sid: Our time has slipped away.

Sid: I recently spoke at a conference with my friend David Hertzog in a place called Sedona, Arizona and that is a real New Age capital.  It is an amazing city, absolute beauty; we were on top of a mountain in a tent.  It was probably one of the most glorious natural settings I have ever seen in my life.  And one of the other speakers was Bill Johnson and for the first time I saw a full service with Bill Johnson.  And I have to say I saw more instant miracles than I could recall ever seeing anywhere.  And I was pretty taken by Bill Johnson’s ministry although I know Bill Johnson and although I’ve interviewed him several times, I’d never really seen such a demonstration, such an awesome demonstration of God’s power.  And then Bill Johnson said,  Kevin Dedmon, who is on staff at Bethel Church with him had one of the strongest miracle anointings that he knew.”  So I wanted to get in touch with Kevin and I have him on the telephone right now from Redding, California.   And Kevin I want to take you back so it will kind of unfold because what God did for you I know your passion is He wants to do for everyone.  When you were eighteen you had been into drugs and you got saved at a concert and you just radically believed God’s Word and healings started almost immediately.  As a matter of fact you had, it’s a Hebrew word it’s called chutzpa that means nerve.  You had a lot of chutzpa because according to my notes you walked up to some people where one guy had a wrist problem and tell me about that.

Kevin: Well, he had a broken wrist and it was in a soft cast and it had just been broken and there were about twelve guys standing around and they were teenagers like myself and I walked into the group and I said, “Listen, if God doesn’t heal that guy’s wrist you can all beat me up, but if God heals that guys wrist then you guys have to get saved.”

Sid: You must have been really confident his wrist would be healed, I hope.

Kevin: I was so ignorant when I became a Christian; I thought the Old Testament was written in the 1960’s.

Sid: Well, a lot of Christians feel the same way unfortunately.

Kevin: So when I started reading the New Testament I just assumed that everything that was in there was true and was real and was something I was suppose to experience.  So I just went about healing people and…

Sid: So tell me about the person with the broken wrist.

Kevin: Well, he got totally healed right on the spot, he’s moving it all around and so I turned to each one of them and I said, “Okay now you got to give your life to Jesus right now because He’s real and he has a plan and purpose for your life.”  And four of them actually received Jesus right there on the spot.

Sid: That is so wonderful, but someone poured cold water on your parade.  In 1977 someone died from cancer that you prayed for and why did you stop praying for the sick pretty much after that?

Kevin: Well, actually I poured cold water on myself because, by the time I was two years into Jesus you know as a Christian the pastors in the city where I lived in Reno Nevada, they started calling me asking me to come and pray for people; and I thought that it was a little odd that they would have me come and pray, why they wouldn’t just do it.  But I would go and pray for people and we were invited to go pray for a woman who was dying of cancer and my fiancée, now my wife at the time she was my fiancée we went and prayed for this woman and we prayed for probably two hours.  And when we got home and hour later they called and said that she had died and I thought I had killed her because I didn’t have enough faith; that I wasn’t gifted enough.  That I should had somebody come over there who was better equipped and more empowered than I was and so for twenty some years I never would pray for the sick again because I use to tell people you don’t want me to pray for you because you’ll either get worse or you may die.  And I believed in healing, but I didn’t think I had what it takes and the enemy stole from me just that child like faith that I started with; because of that failure so to speak.

Sid: And then it was almost like history repeated itself because your son Chad started having a drug problem like you had and your wife forced him to go to the Brownsville Church in Pensacola, Florida and how did she force him to go?

Kevin: Well, he was sixteen at the time and it was really an issue of either we were going to emancipate him out of our home or he was going to go to this Brownville youth conference with another church in our city.  And he decided he would go and he got absolutely just transformed at this youth conference in Brownsville at the Revival there in Florida.

Sid: Well, he actually called your wife from there but what did you think when you heard he was on the phone?

Kevin: Well, actually the youth pastor called and my wife then called me and said that the youth pastor had called and my heart just sunk down to the floor and I said, “Okay that’s it.”  He’s out of here, there sending him home and she’s crying on the phone, Chad, it’s Chad our son, Chad;  and what, tell me what?   The youth pastor called and said that he’s never seen anything like this before, that Chad has repented, that he’s been crying for twenty-four straight hours and then he’s laughing for twenty-four straight hours.  And he’s totally transformed, he’s up on the stage and everybody here knows him all 1,000 of the kids know him and he’s the hit of the whole conference’ I’ve never seen anything like it.  And sure enough Chad came home and he was absolutely transformed and he hasn’t stopped since.  So twelve years later and now he’s traveling all over the world preaching and doing miracles and equipping and empowering and activating Christians to do the same thing.  It’s amazing!

Sid: But as a result of that, that almost brought your first love back and there was a touch biker that was living in your home and he started yelling, “What was he yelling about?”

Kevin: Well, he was like 6’4” biker and we were helping him out, he had herniated his disk and he had had surgery and it didn’t work, he was just writhing in pain for six months.  He was staying in one of our guest rooms and we were just kind of taking care of him and one night he just called form his room as we were having a leaders meeting and he just asked if we could carry him out to the living room so he could just be with some people.  He was just in so much pain and lonely and just didn’t know what was going to happen in his life.  And so at the end of the meeting he looks at me and he’s crying and he’s saying “Kevin, please, please can you pray for me.”  And up to this point for twenty some years I would just say no, I’m sorry I just don’t have the gift; even though I had written papers in college and gotten A’s on them on healing.  I had the theology, but I didn’t believe that I had the gift or what it takes to heal people.  And so I was looking around for somebody else on the leadership that might have a gift of healing, because I did believe in it.  And nobody there had a gift either so out of compassion I just said, “Okay, just stand him up and this was after I had come back from Brownsville.  My wife and I had been wrecked out in Brownsville, just the Spirit of God came on us and we were totally renewed and now we were revived and we were ready to go after the supernatural in a whole new way.  Even though we had been part of the Vineyard in the past and we had been taught about the supernatural, we had seen it we weren’t doing it ourselves.  So I had our roommate, he stood up and I put my hand on him and as I did, at the same I felt fire on my hand, he jumps up in the air.  And says my backs on fire, my backs on fire and this guy could not walk let alone jump.  He was jumping in the air, running all around, he was crying, he was laughing and just saying I can’t believe it, I can’t believe it I’m healed, I’m healed and I finally said, “Believe it obviously your healed.  And he was totally healed and that was what launched me into believing now that I really could lay hand on the sick and they would recover or the injured or the dead even you know.

Sid: And the thing that I love about your ministry as opposed to many others, your ministry is not to make Kevin Dedmon the superstar.  Your ministry is to empower people so that everyone can do what Kevin Dedmon does by having the realization that Jesus is in them.

Kevin: That’s exactly right, the same Jesus that’s in me in you is in everyone out there and you know I’m no different than anyone else.  We all have the Spirit of God inside of us and we’ve all been commissioned to heal the sick, to raise the dead, to cleanse lepers and to set people free.  So that’s what I teach, I try to equip, to empower and to activate people into the supernatural lifestyle that they have been called to that’s a natural lifestyle.

Sid: I have a copy of your brand new book “Unlocking Heaven” and the Subtitle is Key’s to living naturally supernatural.  And of course on my Television Show I say, “Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural.”  So you use that same terminology, but you’ve been involved in training so many young people, “Why is it the young people seem to get it quicker than those that have been in the church for fifty years?”

Kevin: Well, in actuality I’m seeing, I’m seeing young, old, men, women, leaders, non-leaders, every kind of person now being activated into the supernatural lifestyle.  But it is true the younger person is in the Lord, or in life they just tend to be more accepting of something new.

Sid: One of the men that has the key to reach the heart of the Jew is Kevin Dedmon who I interviewed last week; who is the Father of Chad Dedmon and I am overwhelmed.  You see the way to reach the Jew and the way to reach any person from another religion is not mental apologetics, but through a demonstration of the kingdom of God which they cannot deny.  And Chad you started early, I mean I have a little difficulty comprehending this, if I had been your father I think I would have spanked the people that had you do this, but when you were nine years of age there was a dumpster.  What did it look like?

Chad: Yeah, this is the way that we did evangelism at our church and what we would do we would just go and find people and we would go find those that were down and out; those that needed Jesus and really needed a supernatural Jesus.  And so we approached this dumpster, it was me and a guy that was living that we took in; a guy that was living at my parents’ house and he picked me up and put me in this dumpster that was a blue dumpster, it was very big and it was behind a liquor store.  And we would find people that would actually live there, they would drink the night before and then they would sleep in the dumpster.  I guess that was the most comfortable place, compared to maybe the asphalt they would sleep in the trash can.

Sid: So these were homeless people that were looking for a place out of the rain and the wind and the cold and everything.

Chad: Exactly, so we would go out to the people and so this particular time I get dropped into the dumpster, I’m nine years old and I don’t even know if I could crawl out.  So I’m dumped in and there’s this man that drank himself, drank so much the night before he was sleeping and I woke him up and I began to tell him about Jesus.  And so we bring him to church and he ends up getting saved and delivered supernaturally, where the alcohol, the desire for alcohol that void that was in his life that he was trying to fill with alcohol completely left and was filled with the love of Jesus.  And so we took him to a rehab and he later sent us a letter two years later to tell us that he reconnected, that he got remarried with his wife, reconnected with his kids, got his old job back and is now buying a house.

Sid: Now, just out of curiosity why did someone, who was it that dumped you into the dumpster at age nine?

Chad: Yeah, his name was Laguna, that was not his real name, but we gave him that name because we called him the goonster.  And he was 6’4” he was a body builder, he was an X bouncer.

Sid: I mean, why didn’t he get in the dumpster, why did he put you in the dumpster?

Chad: I guess I was the smaller one so I think him jumping in there, for some reason I got the short end of the stick.

Sid: Ha, you obviously did.  Let’s progress a little bit, and you’re a pastor’s kid and we find out about your father, Kevin who wrote the book that were offering this week called, “Unlocking Heaven.”  And Kevin Dedmon it said about your Dad by Bill Johnson who has one of the neatest miracle ministries I personally know of; that he said, “That your Dad had the strongest miracle anointing of anyone he ever heard of.”  So you’re raised by a pastor and you resented, as many pastor’s kids do.  Actually you did what your Dad did when he was younger you got into drugs at age thirteen; it was sort of like there was a generational curse or something.

Chad: Yes, it really was and so there was a generational curse, then also just being raised in a ministry, being born into the ministry I felt that false responsibility.  And so I really got angry at God, I got angry at my parents where I was mad that I was born, this is not my decision; and so I decided to rebel and I started doing drugs.  And I would see, that was probably the most demonic stuff, time in my life.

Sid: Now you were very gifted, you had what the Bible refers to as the gift of discernment, you could see what was going on in the visible world and you could literally see evil, you could see demons and you could literally see Jesus at the time.

Chad: Yes, yes I would see Jesus probably at a monthly; I would see Him in my room in the corner.  I would be doing drugs and He would be weeping and He’d be looking at me and He’d be crying and my heart was so hardened I said, “I know that you are the way, but you know what this is what I’m doing.”

Sid: And one day though it was a very turning point in your life, Jesus entered your room and he said something to you, what did He say?

Chad: He said to me, He said, “Chad, you’re either going to be my best friend or I’m going to had you over to Satan.”  And I knew what that meant, I had many close encounters to death, I knew that there was a hedge of protection over my life and I almost od, my friend almost od on crack, I got shot at, I almost got stabbed.  A number of different things happened or I knew that Jesus was protecting me and I knew that when Jesus was saying “I’m going to hand you over to Satan that it wasn’t going to be that I was going to be a drug addict for the rest of my life; that I would actually be killed by Satan.  And so I knew that this was an ultimatum that had serious consequences and looked at Jesus and I said, “I know that You are the only way that You are the truth; and so I said, “I want you to be my best friend.”  And He gave me this big hug and right when He hugged me, right when He touched me, all the drug addiction, the desire for drugs just completely left and I really became whole, I felt that peace that surpasses all understanding, it was amazing.

Sid: Okay, so that’s around thirteen, fourteen and at fifteen you get interested in girls and you develop and unhealthy relationship; then by the time you’re seventeen she breaks up with you and you’re depressed and now you turn to alcohol and drinking.  “How could you that after being hugged by Jesus””

Chad: I know, “Hope deferred makes the heart sick and desire realized is the tree of life.”  So that’s why it’s so important to grab a hold of your destiny and the promises that are over your life and do not let other people take that place in your life; that Jesus has to be that place.  And I let a girl into my heart that I shouldn’t have and when she broke up with me, it was probably the only time in my life that I was depressed and so I drank a few times and I got caught drinking and I got the end of my rope.

Sid: Now you didn’t have a Jewish mother, but you had a mother that acted just like a Jewish mothers are suppose to act, she forced you to go to a revival meeting in Pensacola, Florida at the Brownsville, Assembly of God with I guess a youth group and you had no choice.  She forced you to go so you went on this kicking and screaming so to speak; what happened to you there?

Chad: I got radically touched!  I mean again, I had no idea about this revival that was happening on the other side of our nation in Florida and so I was kind of going blind.  I didn’t know what was going on and I went there and I felt the Presence of God and I felt the tangible Presence of God and I knew that this was different; that this was not just church; this wasn’t just somebody speaking that God was present and God was tangible.  And so I responded by going to the altar and just saying, “God, I need to get my life right, I need to get it in order and I ended up just on my face and I was just begin to weep in a real deep just the Spirit of Repentance came and I just wept.  I wept so hard, I mean I had, you know snot, I was crying, I didn’t care who was around me, and I ended up starting to wail, I started screaming, “God, I need You, I need You, I need You” And there was another young man that was with me at the time and he was kind of going through the same experience and we were a good two hours weeping and then something just clicked without looking at each other, we began to laugh.  We began to just get filled with the Spirit of God where we just began to fill this overwhelming joy where we begin to laugh from that point all the way into our hotel room, throughout the whole night and for the next two days we could not stop laughing.

Sid: Two says!  That a long time to laugh, you know “A merry heart is good medicine,” but this is ridiculous!

Chad: Yeah, it was amazing you can’t get too much of a good thing.

Sid: Then you get back at high school; you are radically changed, “What happened at your high school?”

Chad: Yeah, we started like a Bible study prayer meeting at our lunch for our High School and we had, it just started growing more and more; there was just a definite hunger in the High School.  And we ended up getting about 150 people that were just going after God where we would just be in our just during the hours of our High School and we would meet at different other times as well where we would just get together and we would pray, “God we want more of You.”  So there was this desperation and this hunger of about 150 people that just cried out for more of God.

Sid: How many got saved at your High School?

Chad: Oh, there was probably about 100 to 150 people.

Sid: Now that is normal, how would you like to be normal, well one thing that would make you normal would be if you had the same Dad as Chad had, Kevin Dedmon…

Sid: Well, I have a woman that’s been raised up by God that is as radical as I am and I believe as radical you are for the things of God.  She has such a hunger for God it’s contagious.  And I want to find out a bit more about Patricia King’s background because as I’m reading my brief notes here I see that we have a lot of similarity.  Patricia King reached a critical point in her life where she actually believed that she would end up in a mental hospital and that they’ll throw the key away.  Well, as I like say Patricia I thought that I would either be dead or in prison or insane.  And that’s the way and that’s not exaggerating before I knew the Messiah.  But you were in a real bad bad way and you were about ready to have a baby and you wanted your baby baptized and things started changing.  Tell me about that.

Patricia: That’s right.  Well Sid, I was in a very traumatic state emotionally.  In fact I was so erratic emotionally I had no control over my emotions.  And people outwardly didn’t understand that, they only saw one part of me that I would present in public and then behind the scenes I was in torment.  I had two little children at the time, a brand new baby and I was afraid for their lives because of my erratic behavior.  So I called an Anglican minister because I felt that it was time for me to expose what was going on behind the scenes in my life and to try to do something about it.  And I had this belief if I did that I would be committed and so I wanted to make sure my children were Christened because I thought if they were then if I never got out of the mental institution then that maybe I would see them in Heaven or something.  And so when I called the Anglican minister he came over within twenty minutes of hanging up that call and began to share the gospel with me and that was my first time of hearing the gospel.

Sid: So actually this was the first light that was really beginning to shine on your world of darkness.

Patricia: That’s right, it was like I had gone to Sunday school as a little girl, but I never new, I never knew that you could have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ by having Him live inside of your heart, inside your life and have him transform you; and literally be your life in you.  And when this minister came in and shared certain things with me I didn’t accept it right away.  In fact I was scared, I realized that I had been demonized because of my past and so those demons started to react in me and through me against this minister, but he never gave up on me.  Invited me to a meeting that week in which I ended up going and that is where the power and the presence of the Lord was so real, so tangible I felt him, I saw him on people’s faces.  I saw that light that did penetrate the darkness and that night after I got home I knelt down before the Lord, I said, “Lord Jesus if you are real, like I saw in those people tonight, if you are real like the presence I felt tonight, I would love for you to come into my life and forgive me of all my sins.”  And he didn’t hesitate Sid, He was just, I felt His presence come in, I felt my sin and my guilt and my shame get removed and I actually felt the new life of Christ enter me.  So I was so blessed to have that experience where…

Sid: But you know, the thing that interests me so much is when I first became a believer I had the presence of God. I felt so clean; actually I got set free of all the demons from the New Age that I’d been involved in.  But, I didn’t understand repentance, no one had ever taught, coming from a Jewish background, no one had taught me, now, I might add I did nothing but repent for the next few years.  However, with you it sounds like it was just in this one night you became totally cleansed!

Patricia: Yeah, I actually felt the cleansing power of the Lord.  Before I became a Christian I knew that I was in trouble, like no one had to tell me I was a sinner, I knew I was, I just didn’t know how not to be.  I tried self help programs, I tried of course all kinds of spiritual things, that is what actually got me into the New Age which I was practicing before I got saved.  It was because I was searching for answers so I went for spiritual help, and of course it only made it worse because anything that is not of Christ is just going to destroy you even more.  And so I didn’t need to be told I was a sinner, I knew I was doing wrong things, I knew I was hurting people, I knew that I was hurting myself; but I didn’t know how to overcome.  And so when Jesus came into my life and I felt the guilt, the shame and everything leave me, then that was my greatest gift, was to know forgiveness and to know that I could now have a fresh start.

Sid: And the thing that’s amazing to me and was amazing for me as well as for you, is that you immediately went into the streets! I immediately started telling everyone I knew about Jesus, I hadn’t even read the New Testament.

Patricia: Ha, ha ha, I know and it’s like as a believe when that life enters you don’t understand why it’s good, you just know it is and so the next morning after I got Born Again I went to my neighbors.  I knocked on the door to the first neighbor and I said, “Last night Jesus came into my life and took all my sin away and He can do it for you too.”  Because I thought I was absolutely convinced that the only reason that the whole world was not saved yet was because they had not experienced what I had experienced.  And if they could just hear that Jesus could take their sin away they would want him.  And so I was really surprised at the first door that I didn’t get the response I was thinking I would get.  I thought they would say, “Oh yes, yes I would love to have my sins taken away.”  I was so sure that everybody would want it, but instead they said, “Patricia are you crazy; have you gone crazy?”  And I remember saying, “No, I was crazy, but now I’m not crazy.”  And it’s like they just looked at me like I had gone off my rocker.  And of course that news spread around the neighborhood.  But I continued to go door to door that day, I could not keep quiet, I would go out on the streets and share with whoever would listen.  I was so excited about having this new life, and it was so real and you know Sid, most nonbelievers are only one revelation away from receiving Christ because as soon as the light goes on you know that you know that you know.

Sid: But do you know what I feel sorry for?  I feel sorry for Christians that believe because their parents believe and they have attended church their whole life and they could go their whole life and miss the whole purpose of life and think their fine.

Patricia: Yeah, that’s true.

Sid: And another thing you know, that when I watch you on television I see something that is so wonderful; I see you out on the streets with people that are in the worse shapes of anyone in society and I see a compassion and a love in you.  Where does this compassion come from when I see you out in the slum areas and just putting your arms and weeping with these people?

Patricia: Well, you know Sid, that’s exactly where I was and that’s where I would be now if God hadn’t loved me to life.  When I received Christ, I didn’t deserve to be loved, none of us do, but we serve a God of love; He is love.  And He saw everything about me, He saw everything I’d done in the shadows; He saw everything I did in the secret places; He saw it all, all the horrible things that I did and yet He loved me perfectly.  On the night that I received Jesus Christ I felt that love fill me; and I came to know that God is a God of love; He is love.  And so when you know Him as a God of love and when you’ve received His mercy then it’s easy to give.  Freely, freely we have received, so we freely freely give.  And I do love; I love loving people to life.  And I find that Sid and I know that you know this too is that most often people don’t need a good preach, but they need a good love.  They need to be touched by the presence of love and I find that when people feel the presence of God His love and His favor towards them, His friendship is being offered towards them that they melt and they reach out to Him.  And why wouldn’t you?  He’s so delicious, He’s so amazing; He’s so there’s no one like Him.

Sid: …Tell me one changed life of someone that had attended your school.

Patricia: My gosh, this is so awesome; I mean we get emails all the time Sid, of people who said that the Glory School when they attended it was there point of being transformed.  I remember one Baptist couple; in fact he was a Pastor and had never been introduced to the supernatural and did not understand that the scripture teaches very clearly that we have invitation to access and the reality of the Kingdom realm by faith; and he had never seen that in the scripture before until he took the Glory School.  And it opened up a brand new world to him and in fact now he operates in the prophetic…

Sid: You know in the tumult of your day, day to day life do you long for peace powerful enough to defeat your greatest fears?  Strength to overcome your mountains of obstacles you face or the presence of God to fill you with power?  I’m interviewing Michael Galiga; he does not speak by theory, he’s not just some teacher that knows how to teach, he is a man that has won every battle.  He has found how you can draw into the secret place of God’s presence and power and wisdom.  He get’s downloaded ideas that result in $l00,000,000 real estate deals.  He has found that whatever the problem, whether it’s unemployment, whether it’s your facing foreclosure or whether it’s sickness or whether it’s broken relationships, whether it’s plain fear, being paralyzed and not being able to make a decision God has something better for you.  You can win every battle and Mike you talk about in your book, “Win Every Battle” an amazing experience when God called you to Israel in 2005.  But you put out a fleece, what was that and why would you even put out a fleece?  I think it’s great to go to Israel, what’s the big deal?

Michael: Well, Sid I was raised in a family that when times got tough and just the year before started my own business and moved back to Oklahoma to take care of my Mom and we didn’t have a lot of money and so the way that I was raised and you don’t have a lot of money you work hard, and if times get hard, you work harder and harder and harder.  And so I’m praying one night and journaling and God says okay, I want you go to Israel and I’m going “Well, I kind of wanted to go, but I don’t want to go right now because I need to work hard.  But so any way eventually I agreed to go, I said, “Okay, okay I’ll go, period, but I have these two residential lots that my wife and I bought and we don’t want them anymore and it’s very expensive, a lot of money Sid, and so we needed to sell them, we needed to sell them since we didn’t want them.  So I said, God, I’m asking you, I’m going on record, I’m asking you, I will go to Israel but I’m asking you to have both of these lots in contract, not closed but in contract before I leave.  And then there was another fellow that owed me a lot of money and I’ll say the amount, not to brag, but it was $200,000 and I will name his name Bob in Indiana.  You Bob has told me that he’s not going to pay me.  And so I would like to be paid before I leave, and he said to both of those things, done, I’ll take care of it, you go to Israel.  So about, three or four days before I left something like both lots are still for sale and I don’t have the $200,000 so again it was about four or five days before I left, the phone rang about 10:30 a night that was the broker that had the listing and he said, “Mike I have this offer, can I come by?”  He comes by, it was a great offer, it was perfect.  My wife and I sign it and we say yahoo, praise the Lord, but we still have another lot for sale and don’t have the $200,000.  So I continue to praise the Lord and this is stretching me like big time.  And so the night before I left, it was 10:30 at night a broker calls the same song and dance, he calls and he’s got a great offer on the second last lot.  Can I come by and he came by and it was a full price perfect offer and we sign it.  And so that part of the deal that I struck with God was done the night before I left, but I still don’t have $200,000.  I’m still, I’m maxed out Sid, you know I’m walking in ground that I’ve never walked on before.  And so I said, “I’m going to Israel” and I went to bed that night, and I said, “I’m going to Israel, I don’t care I’m going no matter what, even if I don’t have the 200,000, but I know God is going to give it to me.  So I got up that morning, my wife and my little boy drove me to the airport, I went in the airport and waved goodbye to them and I sat at the gate Sid. Thirty minutes before that plane took off I felt like a quarterback that knew that he was going throw the touchdown pass with twenty seconds left in the Super Bowl.  I just knew it Sid, I just looked around at people and said, these people are nice people, but they don’t have a clue of what’s about to happen.  I got on the plane, I sat on my seat, there was nobody next to me, suns coming in through the window, and I said God this is the eleventh point nine hour and I know that you are going to deliver me and the stewardess came on and said, hey, if you got a cell phone on, it ought to be off and just then the door shut and you know when the door shut and it compresses and you can hear it?

Sid: Right.

Michael: You’re not getting off that plane at that point, you cannot get off that plane so I’m going to Israel, but the plane had not started back out yet.  We hadn’t left, my phone rang and that about ten second period, it rang as I was punching the button to turn it off and he said, “Hey, this is David from Indiana, I just wanted you to know that we just wire transferred $200,000 payments to your account and I know that you’re going on a trip out of the country, have a great trip.”  So I spoke to him for about ten seconds and I hung up.  Two things, the money was there before I left, but only after the door shut Sid.  Second of all, I never told him I was going anywhere.

Sid: How did you feel when you got that telephone call?

Michael: Well, I melted into the seat, you know this is a place that most people dream about going and they never go there because they haven’t taken that step into faith.  And I’m telling you, I was a hurting unit, when I got on that plane I was full of faith, but I was thinking either you show up of I go down in flames.  I’ve never done this before, ever.  And so I stepped out on faith and that’s when it happened.  That’s when the supernatural takes over.

Sid: And when you were coming back or maybe even before you found out, you heard from God that the devil had a strategy against you.

Michael: Yeah, very real I’m journaling about a month before I left and I’m journaling, I’m writing down what God’s telling me to do and what He’s up too and He says, Mike, Hey your sensitive point is your wife and child.  And the forces of darkness, satan and his minions are going to come after your wife and child and because you’re going to Israel because I told you to and your being obedient, I the living God am going to protect them with my hand, I’m not sending somebody else, I’m going to protect t them with My hand, Myself.  And I thought that sounds cool, I love that.  So I’m coming back from Israel, I land at the Oklahoma City airport and turn on, been gone ten or eleven days, and my wife is on the phone leaving me voice mails, leaving me voice mails, very stressed out, and sobbing.  And so I pull up at the gate and a fireman is waiting at the door and a stewardess says Mike Galiga where are you and she said, everybody sit down, Mike Galiga get up here right now, I run to the front of the plane and she says, “Your wife and son have been hit by a pickup truck in the Will Rogers International Airport here in Oklahoma City.  I know where their car is and they’re on their way to Mercy Hospital, come with me.  So I did, I got in the car, but Sid my heart rate didn’t even bump any.  It was a supernatural sustenance sustaining experience where I knew that God had told me that He would protect them and He did.  No matter what somebody told me, I knew that they were fine.  My heart rate didn’t increase, I didn’t sweat, I didn’t get excited, I got in her car, drove to the hospital and got there and this is the story that I was told.  Mike we were walking into the cross walk and I saw an object, I had the umbrella up and it was drizzling and I saw an object to my right and it ended up being a pickup truck and an arm and a hand an arm, a big one pushed me back out of the way of the truck, but it still hit Michael, threw him ten feet in the air and he landed on his feel looking at the front bumper of the truck and the truck skid to a stop.

Sid: Wait a second, “How old is Michael?”

Michael: He would have been five.

Sid: You tell me a five year old is hit by a car, goes ten feet in the air and lands on their feet?

Michael: Looking at the front bumper of the truck and the point of the story is they couldn’t find anything wrong with him, an hour later or so they released him, he didn’t even have a scratch.

Sid: What did this teach you about obedience?

Michael: Well, it taught me that these are things that happen when God says that I want you to do this or that.  And when you do that and you step out on faith with direction that you can’t fail.  And what I’ve learned is that faith translated into people’s terms that don’t go to church and they don’t understand this Sid is living as absolutely far into the uncertain as you possible comfortably can every day; because we all value certainty.

Sid: You know what I find in my life, the most exciting times I have with God is when I walk on water.  I’ve never really walked on water, but some of the things that I’ve done have been equivalent to it.  But it doesn’t happen until I put myself in that position.

Michael: Yeah.  That’s exactly right, once you get a taste of this there’s no going back.

Sid: It is like I was telling a few friends, I do meeting where I lecture on the supernatural and I promise that people will be healed.  Well, I’m just like you Michael, I can’t heal anyone, but when I put God on the line and unsaved people come, they get healed.

Michael: Yeah, it’s amazing.

Sid:  Michael you have battled fear and won, explain what fear is.

Michael: Well, first of all fear is a thing, and unchurched people, people that aren’t use to seeing this and hearing it are baffled by it at first, but fear first of all is a thing.  It’s a demonic force, it’s not just a feeling and those things are all, have been conquered by the blood of Christ.  I know that that sounds weird, but I’m a businessman, but when you take that blood and say “Fear you can’t be here anymore you have to leave.  And you begin to reprogram your mind and ask God to reprogram it from living in the certainty, worshipping certainty to saying I am going to X out certainty on my values list and plug in uncertainty.  I want to live in an uncertain world because that is where all the passion is and that’s where all the joy comes from.  The Bible calls it faith, when you live in faith, your happy, you’re joyful.  No you don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow, but what happens tomorrow is pretty awesome.

Sid: It’s pretty awesome, again it’s easy for you to teach on this but what to me is what is awesome is some of the experiences you have had where you have literally overcome a spirit of fear.  And on tomorrow’s broadcast we’re going to talk about overcoming. But, you know when you were talking about in 2005 when you went into your closet and you literally were saying I’m not coming out of here until I experience the same presence of God that King David experienced.  But the issue is that was when you really finally surrendered.

Michael: Yeah, that’s the first step Sid, step number one is absolute total, unconditional, unrevocable utter complete, wall to wall surrender.

Sid: How freeing is that?

Michael: It’s freeing to the extent that it’s hard to believe that you’re that free.

Sid: Well, listen I want you to win every battle; I want you to conquer fear, I want you to be so free.

Sid: Hi. Sid Roth here with Leif Hetland. Leif, you teach on regaining the vision. You teach on dreaming with God. You’re a dreamer, right?

Leif: I do.

Sid: You are a dreamer. And when you impart this, people have inventions, people have healings, people have new direction for life. They have encounters with God. Tell me about Edwin.

Leif: Well Edwin is a businessman.

Sid: He sat in on your teaching.

Leif: He sat in on my teaching and I’ve released this actually to all my team in the Philippines because I wanted every single one of them to be able to realize that there’s a dream in your life. But I realize many of them had a funeral of their dream. So they actually, the dream was dead and they had buried their dream. And Edwin is also a dreamer. And he is a businessman, owns a construction company, and he also has one of the greatest real estate company. But during the recession they were hit very hard.

Sid: Of course.

Leif: And so he went up on a mountain area where he goes alone with God. And the good news, he is a son. He’s just finding his place in the Father’s embrace and love.

Sid: He’s not an orphan any more.

Leif: He’s not an orphan now. He’s a son. And he started to dream with God. But his dilemma was he didn’t have money to be able to pay his workers. And all of those workers that is construction workers, they get paid, but not just paid. That’s his ministry. That’s his ministry in the business. So Edwin, he started then to dream with God. And God gave him a word. He said, “Your dream is whoever lends to the poor, lends to me, and I’m going to show you.” And he was driving down from that mountain and he saw a poor beggar sitting on the street. And Edwin said, “What would you like God to do for you?” And this guy said, “I just would love to have a home.” He was homeless. So Edwin, he gathered his crew and he started to dream. They didn’t have money to pay the workers. But now instead, they built this guy a beautiful house, a home. And while they were building his home, a Korean businessman, he calls in and he ordered a house. Now another group of people called in and they ordered a whole set of upper-middle class houses, and later on, there was a school. And in a matter of two months there were so many orders that came in for Edwin that he had made more money during the first two months of recession than all the previous years back together. So Edwin, he continued to dream with God and he’s doing very well.

Sid: So if you’re a dreamer with God, if you dream with God it doesn’t matter what happens to the economy. It doesn’t matter what happens in any arena of your life because if you’re dreaming with God, if God’s for you, your mother didn’t raise a dummy, who can be against you? Leif, tell me about that Filipino man that had that idea for the Korean company.

Leif: It’s kind of a fun story because also he is another dreamer. But he didn’t realize when the down luck was going to come. There was a Korean company, and it’s been on the Internet, that has been looking for a scientific and a mathematical solution. And a lot of the Filipinos, they would like to get something from Heaven that would be an answer to this solution. And in the natural they tried everything, but nothing was taking place. And he also had deemed in the presence of God. And he was actually just going to a restaurant, and he was in the restaurant heading to the bathroom. And when he’s going into the bathroom that’s when the download came. It sounds strange that he shared the story. He was in the bathroom and suddenly he got these downloads from Heaven.

Sid: Now you said, you did warn me this was a funny story.

Leif: So he took actually toilet paper and he throwed it down there and then he took it, put it in his pocket, went back home, went on his computer. And first of all, it changed his life financially speaking. He’s been made partner of this Korean company. And this is just one out of many stories. What I like so much about this story, it was that his creative solution, and I believe that with any problem that is up there, there’s somebody, God is just looking for a dreamer, somebody that will just align up with him that can solve that very problem. And that’s why this story or that testimony is so beautiful to me. There is something in each person, everybody that is watching right now, something God has placed within us to solve some of these problems. But all God is looking for is somebody that would co-labor with him, sons and daughters that would just receive from Him the solution to some of the problems.

Sid: Tell me about the Alabama pastor that sat under your teaching.

Leif: That was just a few weeks ago in Alabaster, right outside Birmingham, Alabama. And it was also an amazing service, a good old country church. But he never dreams, and he told me, “I never get to dream something.” I said, “Just watch it.” I said, “Tonight when you go to bed, just watch and see what’s going to take place.” And it was actually his wife.

Sid: You know what? That’s a word for you. Tonight, when you go to sleep, watch and see what takes place. Go ahead.

Leif: And so the wife called me the next day and then she sent an email to my office. And this was just tremendous because he said, “I never get dreams. But I saw in my dream, and it was the weather forecast, day-by-day for the next six days, I saw it in my dream.” He said, “And I never get that.” But the wife said, “In the natural, the first thing I do in the morning, I look at the weather forecast.” He’s also a businessman and they are looking at buying this big warehouse as well as office complex to remove his office. And he’s been struggling, should he do it or not? But in his dream, he got a clear answer for what is going to take place in the next six days in his dream, and he knew exactly what he was supposed to do in regard to this large purchase that didn’t make sense during the recession.

Sid: How about you? Because your dream, you’ve had a funeral for it. You’ve given up. You still love God, but you’ve given up on that dream. Or you, you have never even had a dream with God. I’m going to have Leif, in the next section, pray for you and I expect you to dream with God because you are a son, you are a daughter of the most high God, and you count. You’re special. You’re not damaged merchandise. You are fearfully and wonderfully made. You are special to God and He wants to show you. Be right back after this word.

Sid: My guest, Bruce Allen, I don’t see how he could help, but be red hot for the Messiah, with some of the experiences that he’s had on yesterday’s broadcast.  I’ll tell you Bruce, just that one story about the person getting a new heart and being verified by a medical doctor would make someone, in my opinion red hot for the rest of their life.  But that happens a lot when you minister, especially when you talk about where we are the seventh day.  And you show it scripturally, do you find that the presence of God gets very strong when you teach on that subject?

Bruce: Oh, very very often yeah.

Sid: Well, let’s go back to when God spoke to you the first time about supernaturally being transported from one location to another.

Bruce: The Lord seems to like to challenge me just as I wake up when I’m not firing on all four cylinders or eight cylinders, or whatever we are on that day.  But so He challenged me and asked me a question, “Can a man be translated by faith?”  Now, I had absolutely no paradigm for that, that’s never been on my radar to even consider.  I mean I’ve always been fascinated with the story of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch and how he was transported twenty eight miles away after he baptized that eunuch and he was found in Azotes; and so that challenged me, because I believe anything in the Bible that they walked in we can walk in.  So when He asked me that I began to ponder shortly and then remembering what I’ve been teaching on the seventh day and the third day; I finally said, “Yes Sir, I believe so.”  And immediately the Lord responded, “Good, prepare.”  And now I’m really, I said well, “God, how in the world do I do that?”  He said, “I just told you, by faith.”  And so here I am, you know just getting up trying to wake up and God’s challenged me with something that’s extraordinary beyond anything I’ve ever really pondered or conceived of.  And so I began to pray and study, well about a week after that I got a call from a friend, this couple have a Bible college in Spokane and she said, “Well, I had a strange dream about you teaching in our school last night.”  I thought okay, that’s I teach in the school, “What was the dream?”  She said, “Well, you were teaching on translation by faith,” and immediately she got my attention.  I said, “Really,” so she told me the story how I had been teaching the class and at the break and I said for the rest of this session, you have to meet me in and she named some foreign city and you vanished, but two of the students were able to vanish and follow you.  And I said, “Really.”  I said, “Do you remember the scriptures I was using in that dream to teach?” And she thought for a moment and she said, “Yes, I do.”  I said, “Would you please write those down?”  And she did and that’s really where I began to study the word in even more depth, because I had been where do I start, where do I start?  And from that point on the Lord began to open the word to me and I discovered that this belongs to the believer.  And if we just learn to believe His word this should be a normal Christian experience, rather than an extraordinary or a one off experience.  And so I began to fast and pray and study the word and you know Hebrews 11:5 said, “By faith Enoch was translated.”  Well it’s right there in the Bible, so a man can be translated by faith.  So six months into this pursuit of God, this adventure I was driving from Seattle, Washington actually, Edmonds which is right on the water of Peugeot Sound to Spokane which is about a five and half to six hour drive depending upon the traffic.  My friend John and I were coming and we had discussed what the Lord was showing me, I said, “Let’s pray and believe God.” Because I told the Lord, I said, “Lord, I’ve been praying and fasting and studying, and I believe I’m ready for my first lesson.”  So we prayed, we put on a worship song and we started driving and I remember every exit, I remember we stopped for gas and ate.  But we did that trip in less than two hours and I got to tell you that really really put me on tilt because I thought okay, translation, I’ve seen instant translation, but you compressed time.  And so that gave me, I mean a royal challenge, so I began to not only study the word in greater detail because I know in the Old Testament, God caused the clock to go backwards a few degrees and made the sun stand still with Joshua for a full day so this is not outside the purview or the realm of the possibility of God.  But as I studied the word, I had to go to a little bit of Physics and I began to understand something that really liberated me in this; because we’re taught in school that the shortest distance between to points is a straight line.

Sid: Right.

Bruce: And the Lord said, that’s true in the natural however, in me the shortest distance between two points is being there.

Sid: Um, that’ll change anyone’s paradigm for physics.  Ha-ha.

Bruce: Absolutely, shifted me.  Then He said this “Is it possible for a man to be in two places at one time?”  Well I know He’s going to throw out anything I thought I knew again, so immediately I had to respond well, “Yes Sir, I believe it is.”  He said, “That’s true because in My word it says that you are already seated together with Me in Heavenly places; therefore you are in two places right now.”

Sid: Now, since that happened to you, has this happened again? Have you ever been translated to another city or another country?

Bruce: I was, that was, right after that we had our conference over New Years and during the conference just as we had started, I had told a friend of mine, “I don’t know why, but, he was a professional photographer, but bring your cameras and you just snap pictures as you feel led, I believe we are going to catch something supernatural.”  Now, I had no idea, I just knew that I had that witness in my spirit.  Well, at the beginning of my message, I was caught away in the Spirit and I was above the earth looking down on the nation and I saw the outline of the nation and I questioned, I said, “Lord, is this Latvia or Lithuania?”  He said, “Latvia.”  Now it was nighttime there, I saw the lights of the city.

Sid: Now, out of curiosity, “Were you a little afraid? I mean this kind of very different thing to happen to someone.

Bruce: You know Sid, what’s interesting is that in every single experience I’ve had in Messiah, I’ve never had a fear.  There is always, it’s like…

Sid: I mean it’s like when I first learned to ride the bicycle I was fearful I would fall.

Bruce: Yeah, I understand, well, I was more of a daredevil so, but no it was always, when He’s with me “How can I be afraid?”  I don’t know how to explain that.

Sid: Okay, so you see yourself over which country?

Bruce: Over, Latvia.

Sid: What happens next?

Bruce: It’s nighttime, there’s just a little bit of a cloud, you know a smattering of clouds; we came down from above, through the roof of an apartment flat and I stood in front door number 212, apartment 212.  And I heard weeping inside, and I knew that it was a child, and where as I was going to knock I immediately went no, I opened the door and walked in and in the back room was a little eight year old girl named Natalia, I asked her her name.  And I inquired, “What’s the matter?”  She said, “My parents can no longer find employment or work, we have no food, we have no money and we are going to be evicted, we don’t know what to do and she was just pouring her little heart out to God.  And so I comforter and prayed with her.

Sid: Now, wait a second, you were not fearful, but what about her seeing you in her room?

Bruce: You know that was the interesting thing; there was no fear at all.  And I’ve never thought about that aspect before, now that you mention it, but it was nothing, it was like normal.  Then another aspect was that I don’t speak Russian.

Sid: And you were able to communicate?

Bruce: Perfectly.

Sid: Okay, so what was going on with her?

Bruce: Well, she was just pouring her heart out, she was concerned for her parents, she was concerned about the future, she was concerned about all of these things. And so you know I don’t know how long I was there, time has no, when you are in an experience with God who cares about the time, so I ministered to her and then I was back, when I was done I do remember saying goodbye i.e. and everything will be okay.  I was back in the meeting ministering.  Well my friend, Bob had taken these pictures and…

Sid: I’ve got this picture in front of me and this is, I have to tell you Bruce this is outrageous, I see you in the church, but it looks like it’s not really you, it looks almost like an outline of you.

Bruce: Right.

Sid: A shadow of you.

Bruce: Transparent.

Sid: I know that’s what it is, and what is this cloud up on top of the ceiling?

Bruce: I don’t know?

Sid: I mean it looks to me if I was to take a guess, I would say that it was a glory cloud.

Bruce: Yeah, it could be, it could be, I don’t know, I don’t look at that.

Sid: Well, I’m looking at that and that is amazing.  Were there many healings that night when that all transpired and you went for a trip for Latvia?

Bruce: That whole conference was highly unusual, the Lord visited in profound ways.  My friend the shoulder you see there just as you’re looking at the picture on the left, I believe you know him, Andre Ashby.

Sid: Sure, I’ve interviewed him.

Bruce: Yeah, we’ve done a few conferences together and he moves in the glory quite strongly and I move in the prophetic and the signs and wonders happen, so yeah, there were a lot of supernatural things that did take place.

Sid: Well, I’m just overwhelmed by this picture alone, but I’m also overwhelmed about what’s going to happen to our Mishpochah when they read your book, “The Prophetic Promise of the Seventh Day” because we are at the beginning of the seventh day.  And you prove Biblically what is avail to us at the seventh day and I mean, these promises are so fabulous, but as I started reading your book I felt such a presence of God.  Now it’s brand new so we can’t talk about the book, but you have been teaching on this for many years and do you see the glory really showing up when you teach on this?

Bruce: Frequently, frequently.

Sid: And the miracles?

Bruce: I’ve seen more miracles since the Lord began to give me these revelations than at all my, the rest of my life combined.