Sid: My guest Ruth Fazal is a violinist and there is something about the violin if the person playing the violin is a strong believer and has been under the anointing of God for years it comes out.  But a lot of other things are happening when people hear your music.  There are things happening to you, tell me about the time you were translated to Jerusalem.

Ruth: Well, there was one time that I was away on tour and I was in my hotel room and I suddenly found myself praying, but I was praying against the wall of the hotel room and I couldn’t get myself away from it.  And I just kind of had my head glued to the wall, but I realized, but I’m not at the wall of my hotel room I’m in Jerusalem.  At this point I hadn’t ever been there and so it was such, it was such a strong sense and I couldn’t leave I couldn’t come away from it and it was such a connection.  So I mean that was was an amazing time.

Sid: How about when you were translated to Hebron, that’s the place that Abraham was buried.

Ruth: Yeah, oh gosh that was actually one of these Glory nights at my home, and there was something that kind of opened up in the room.  Well, I knew well enough now that okay, something opens up I go as a child and I do it.  And I started walking and it was like down a pathway.  And now, I’ve never been to the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, but I know that that’s where Abraham and Sarah and that’s where Isaac is buried.  And you know I, something burning very much on my heart in these days is the Father Heart of God for the healing between the brothers Ishmael and Isaac.  And it’s really, it’s really strong in me and I know that that’s the next thing that God is doing in me and that He’s going to come.  Something is going to come out of this.  But any way on this occasion I’m walking down this path in the Spirit and I see the Father at the far end of the path and I see these two men walking towards him.  And I know that one is Isaac and one is Ishmael.  And I see them walking together, well their not walking together, but their walking toward the Father.  And at the point where they reach Him He embraces them and I don’t know if your familiar with that beautiful painting of Rembrandt of the prodigal son, it’s that sort or the sense of the Father embracing, but he’s embracing the two of them together.  It was so powerful and I knew at that time the Lord was saying, “One day you are going there to the Tomb of the Patriarchs and you are going to play that.  It’s almost like a playing it into being; and I don’t know when the Lord going to open up, I’m hoping it’s going to be really soon.

Sid: Well, you literally prophesy when you play your violin, do you realize that?

Ruth: Yes, yes I know that.

Sid: You’re prophesying over people, just as if you were to speak in unknown supernatural languages, you don’t know what you’re doing, but you’re prophesying in tongues with the violin.  That’s what I believe.

Ruth: Yeah, I believe that too, and I also realize that, I mean I’ve played also in places like I’ve stood on the tracks in Auschwitz and I’ve played.  And I know that there is a sense in which God, you know that he transcends time and so it’s like I’ve often thought of the image of like you know like a tree trunk, when you cut a tree trunk you see all the rings of the tree?

Sid: Right.

Ruth: And it’s like the Lord can come and He can put His finger on one of those rings and He can bring healing; it is like in our lives.  And so I think it is the same for a nation.  It’s the same for a people and so you know I feel at sometimes when the Lord takes me with the violin He says, okay I want you to stand on this ring right here and play.

Sid: Let’s do that right now from your “Songs from the River CD,” let’s hear “Dawn.”  CD Excerpt. That was from “Songs of the River” by Ruth Fazal.  And Ruth, I’m doing people a disservice because sitting under that music changes you.  It makes you more, I call it, “Heavenly Music” it makes you more Heavenly minded…I wish everyone would sit under this music.  Now you have an amazing burden for the Jew in Israel, obviously came from God.  Tell me about how that happened.

Ruth: Well, I think what happened was, my prayer has always been, “God, give me your heart.” You know, I wrote a song about it so I shouldn’t be surprised when God answers the cry of my heart when I say, “Give me your heart, Lord.”  And so what happened was somebody gave me a book of poetry from the Holocaust and from the concentration Camp of Terezin.  And He asked me to take some of the poems of the children that had died in the Holocaust and put them together with portions of the Hebrew Scriptures and just portray His heart in the midst of the suffering.  I hadn’t a clue what He was asking, this turned out to be huge it turned out to be life changing.  I didn’t, I’ve never turned back, but I found it at the end of two and a half years of writing this piece and going so deep into it that the Lord had literally, I don’t know how else to describe it, but that he had inserted the people into my heart.

Sid: Now, you call your piece, Oratorical Terezin which you have literally had concerts in Israel and in Europe and even in Carnegie Hall.  What reaction do you get?

Ruth: Well, always a jumping to their feet at the end.  The piece ends on an incredible note of hope and that’s I think what people are responding to.  Everywhere we’ve done it we’ve always given tickets, free tickets to Holocaust Survivors.  And like for instance the premier performance in Tel Aviv was on Yom Hashoah and the Lord planned that one.

Sid: The Day of Remembrance.

Ruth: Yeah, yeah and there were probably about 6 or 700 survivors of the Holocaust amongst the 3,000 people in the audience.  And it was just amazing because you know it’s like hope begins to rise in their hearts.

Sid: Now so many Holocaust survivors gave up on God because of what they went through.  Do you see any change in their heart when they listen to your music?

Ruth: Yeah, I think so.  I mean the thing that I feel with the Oratorio is that it’s a question to them that says, will you reconsider the goodness of God?  And certainly those that have been there, those that I have met, I remember one woman coming to me after the first performance in Toronto.  Actually a survivor of Terezin at the end of Auschwitz and she just came up to me and she said, “How did you know.”  And I just looked at her and I said, “Well, I don’t, I don’t know, but God does.”  And it was just, I mean I knew all the time that I was writing this that there was no way, I had no background in this, I really had no right to even address the subject.  But I knew that I had to go into God’s heart.  And so I think hope is the word that just comes and the willingness to even just consider again that God did not abandon his people.

Sid: Now, how did God change you when you went into His heart concerning the Jew in Israel?

Ruth: I don’t know, all I know is that it’s so undeniably strong that it’s like these people are my people.

Sid: Listen, I believe the dividing line of the true church and the phony church will be a proper understanding of the Jew in Israel in these last days.

Sid: I heard a word from God when I was interviewing Nasir Siddiki yesterday and I did not state it, so I repent because I told God I would say it, but any time I heard something, but the anointing.   Nassir when you explained how you had a condition that you were dying of as a Moslem that did not know the Messiah, and you had a visitation of the Messiah, the anointing got so strong that I heard a word.  I heard, in fact you were talking about, do you remember you were talking about the pain, how unbearable the pain was from this condition; the right side of your face and body was totally disfigured.  You had golf ball size blisters, your skin was a red as fire and I’m sure you don’t even want to think about how excruciating the pain was at that moment and when you said that, I heard the Holy Spirit say “There is someone listening to us that has a pain in their neck and their back because the Spirit of God is dealing with pain right now.”  And I believe that if anyone were to move their neck that had pain; if any one were to bend their back over they would walk right into their healing in Yeshua’s Name, in Jesus Name.  Now that I took care of my public repentance Nasir, you were very successful in business, you became a millionaire by age thirty-five; you had over a $1,000,000, you married to the woman that you worked with, Anita everything was storybook.  You went on quite a honeymoon, a two month honeymoon?

Nasir: Ha-ha-ha, yes.  I had been working for many, many years and so this was kind of making up for everything.

Sid: But the following year, the bottom fell out, what happened?

Nasir: Well, two things happened.  Number one the economy went down, and number two the company got bought out and all of a sudden from being at the very very top I ended up being at the very bottom.  We lost everything, we lost our home, we lost our cars, we lost our money.

Sid:  But wait a second, you knew the Lord.

Nasir: Yes.

Sid: Did you think about leaving about leaving the Lord, did you think maybe you made a huge mistake?  What did you think when the bottom fell out, I mean most people are great Christians when things are going good, but when things go bad, we find out what’s really going on inside of them.

Nasir: Well, here’s what happened, when I first gave my life to Christ I got hungry for the word and so I literally devoured the Bible.  I read it from cover to cover and I would constantly be in the word.

Sid: I’ve heard your teaching, and you are a word man!

Nasir: Amen, so when this thing happened I knew immediately that it was not God trying to teach me something, but we really do have an enemy called the devil and he is there to steal, kill and to destroy.  So the only anchor I had was Jesus and I would not let go of my anchor; I would not let go of standing on the word.

Sid: I have noticed, ha-ha that you have a very very tenacious faith.  But as a matter of fact if you didn’t I’m not so sure you would have had the results with your wife Anita.  So not only did the bottom fall out on you financially but your wife became pregnant which was fine, but it was at the peak of your difficulties.  Then it got compounded, what happened?

Nasir: She collapsed outside of the mall and started to have what was called catatonic seizures or grandma seizures and finally she lost her eye sight on her right eye.  Her hands twisted up on the right side, here feet twisted up and she became paralyzed.  They took her to St. Michael’s Hospital in Toronto, they put twenty-eight needles in her head, diagnosed multiple sclerosis.  Said, “That she would be a cripple for the rest of her life.  They gave me the wheelchair and the catheter there is no cure for MS and absolutely nothing we can do to help her.

Sid: Paint me a picture of what she was like in her worst physical shape.

Nasir: She was paralyzed in bed, could not move, blind, needed help all the time and slowly loosing the rest of her organs.

Sid: Oh, my goodness, and you’ve got, you don’t have any money.

Nasir: Yes.

Sid: How, and she’s pregnant?  Oh my goodness.  How did you cope?

Nasir: We had no choice but to trust in the Lord, the only thing we had was a little bit of money for Christmas presents for our two sons, so what we did was we took that money and we bought some teaching, healing, material.  In those days it was cassettes, today their CDs, because the most important thing was that my wife had to come out of this.  And we played that twenty-four hours a day.  Sid, I did not know much about the scriptures but I knew one scripture well, “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”  So for twenty-four hours a day, seven days week tenacity is the Word…

Sid: Okay, did you ever have the thought, “My wife will be like this forever and then die blind, paralyzed?”

Nasir: Yes, I had that thought not once but many many times, and just as much as she had to listen to the Word I had to listen to the Word because I had to get to the point where whatever the doctor’s said, whatever were the circumstances were factual but God’s word is higher than the circumstances.  His Word is higher than what the doctor’s are saying, and until I got to that point where I believed God’s Word even more than I believed what I saw.  Until we got to that point nothing would change, and as she listened to the word, twenty-four hours a day seven days a week, I couldn’t put medicine in her because there was no medicine, there was no cure.  All I could do was put the Word in her and the Bible calls the Word medicine to your flesh.

Sid: Well, this is interesting, you had almost an immediate physical healing, your wife’s was gradual so you’re actually learning about how the word becomes flesh.  And how long did it take for her to manifest her healing?

Nasir: It was a two year period and what was good was when we speak the word, but it’s even better when it speaks to us. Then when that word explodes on the inside of us that we know that we know, that we know that 2,000 years ago Jesus carried multiple sclerosis, you carried cancer and every single sickness and every disease and when that explodes on the inside of us all of a sudden we realize why are we carrying something that Jesus already took on our behalf.  And over a two year period she started to get a little bit better and a little bit better and a little bit better and finally over two years every symptom of multiple sclerosis disappeared.  Her eyesight came back; her feeling on the right side of her body came back.  Her hands and her feet were completely healed.  And she was totally, completely restored.

Sid: What about that little baby, she was pregnant?

Nasir: That baby came out when she was going through this, the baby was doing fine and the funny thing is this after she got healed the doctor said, “MS is going to be with you for the rest of your life, you can never get pregnant again.”  Jesus said, “Get pregnant, show them that I have healed you.”  Well, she got pregnant and that baby is about to turn sixteen years old.

Sid: Now, you know what happened to you by hearing the word 24 x 7; you were forced to because your wife had to.

Nasir: Yes.

Sid: So both of you were learning, your faith developed.  Did you reach a point where you were sure she had been healed?

Nasir: Yes, the healing manifest not when we see the pain go away, that’s not when we receive our healing.  We receive our healing when we actually believe the word and release our faith.  Now we can no longer be moved by what we see now, we either have that anointing in us and everyday it is causing us to be restored.

Sid: Okay, you have six CD’s that we’re making available this week called “How to Receive and How to Keep Your Healing.”   What type of feedback do you get when people go through a seminar you teach or listen to these six CD’s?

Nasir: First of all they realize that Jesus already took their sickness.  Number two they realize how to appropriate their healing, and then number three they realize not only how to get healed but stayed healed.  We’ve had tremendous number of testimonies coming in.

Sid: You and I have discussed that in like the Kathryn Kulman Ministry and many other ministries today lots of people get healed, but for some reason as time goes by they lose their healing.  And I don’t hear anyone teaching on not only are you suppose to be healed but you’re not suppose to lose your healing.

Nasir:  That’s right.

Sid: In fact percentage wise numbers of people lose their healing.  In your opinion can anyone that has repented of their sins and walking with the Lord be healed today of anything?

Nasir:  Yes, the Bible clearly says that Jesus carried every sickness and every disease and the word every means He did not leave one out.  So yes, we can definitely get healed and the anointing heals people.

Sid: You know I’m reminded of a young man that many years ago he came to my office and he said, “God healed my eye sight, I don’t need glasses anymore.”  And then a few days later he came to my office and he said, “I need glasses, what happened?”  I didn’t have an answer for him.

Sid: I tell you the rain is falling right now on Jewish people and Jewish people are ready to receive the Lord, their just waiting for you.  I have on the telephone a man that God has been dealing with for a number of yea rs, John Finn; who has had three visitations from the Lord to show how we can literally recapture what the first Christians had.  What the first literally Jewish believer’s in Jesus had, recapture in a way that many people aren’t looking for.  Now John Finn, I really believe that, I have to tell you that when I first heard what the Lord told you, my brain went almost tilt for just a split second because I’ve been looking for the return of the miracles to win the unsaved.  But the Lord is taking you in another direction, which probably will result in more miracles then going just for the miracles.  Do you agree?

John: Ha-ha, I do now I do believe that miracles and healings are the dinner bell call to salvation.  There is no doubt that the signs and the wonders are what perk peoples ears and get their attention.  But it’s also true, that the New Testament teaches that the discipleship comes through Sons and Daughters, not just anointed meetings.  And that’s the heart and the jest at what He was saying that February of 2001 when he said, this move is not a move of the masses it’s a move of the individual and as it was in the beginning so it must be now I’m moving in relationships.  And that started me on a quest that whole rest of the year and then finally I found myself in Edmonton, Alberta Canada once again in November of 2001 and I was ministering in a church.  Let me tell you Sid, this was a cool church, it was an older church building with kind of a white stucco, but it had seen it’s better days, the wood work was worn the stucco had some cracks and holes in it and it was in kind of a red light district of Edmonton.  And I found out in talking to the pastor before the service that they minister to a lot of people from off the street, ex-cons, people with drug problems and such, but I was schedule to speak that Sunday evening and again in the middle of the worship service I saw Jesus come from about where the Worship Team was playing, six or seven steps over to me and this time the power was turned up.  My strength left me; the Pastor next to me immediately fell to His knees and then face down on the floor.  As Jesus came walking over to me He said this, “I love these kinds of people, and that was enough to blow my mind right there because I’m looking around and I know these people came in off the street.  But what He meant by that is that there are no facades, they are real and genuine people and He loves to meet them where they are at.  And my strength left me, I feel to my knees and later, three of our Bible School said, Jesus walked right by them afterwards, they saw Him as well.  But He came over to me and He said, “You’ve learned much from your study of the Word and the people that I have brought across your path the last few months; He said, I want you to start a house church and a House Church network; and I want you to structure it in such a way to facilitate the development of House Churches around the world.  And I asked Him why?  I had the opportunity in this visitation and I asked Him why he wanted me to do it.  It is against the time to come, in other words it’s a resource against the time to come you know.  And is what we see happening right now, the Body of Christ moving outside the traditional; meeting people that Jesus loves, where they live.  Whether it be the person off the street or just out of jail, that’s what He delights in and in fact later that night in the prayer line I was laying hands on a young woman.  I found out later that she was twenty-two years old and I so a mini-vision as I prayed and I saw her dressing a mannequin in a department store window.  And I saw her, you know in that display case fixing up the whole display case.  And I had to prophecy to her because I heard the Father speaking so I just said, “Father God is speaking to you” and this is what He’s saying,” and He just shared his heart about how He gifted her with artistic talents and that He was giving her the ability to put thing together and to make things and to create things and make things beautiful for people to see.  And she just started crying, and started crying and after I shared all of that I asked her “Well, was this accurate?”  And she said, “I just got out of prison for eighteen months for dealing drugs.”  And she said, “I just enrolled in a two year school that would teach me interior design and I just got a job in a store, and I’ve been working on a display case for the display window.”  That is the Lord Jesus’ heart, that is the Father’s heart right there and that’s what we are talking about.  No more spectator, no more church where it’s a spectator sport where people just sit facing all the same direction, facing you know listening to one anointed person.  This is a move of Jesus meeting people where they are at.  Matthew 25 says that when He comes back, the way He’s going to separate the sheep from the goats is this.  I was sick, you visited me, I was in prison you visited me, I was naked, you clothed me, I was thirsty and hungry and you feed me and gave me some to drink.  It is on a very practical level and you can only do that through based out of a home, based out of families, based out of relationships are work, based out of neighborhoods.  And that’s where the Lord is moving and exploding all over the world today and there are so many miracles and so many people raised from the dead.  Sid, do you know that there are over fifty-two nations right now that have been documented to have people raised from the dead from Christians.

Sid: I was not aware of that.

John: In fact I talked to a brother, I don’t have documentation but he says that it’s now over 70 nations have been documented to have people raised from the dead by Christians.

Sid: Let me take you back to something that the Lord said to you.  You need to start these house churches because of what’s going to come.  What is going to come?

John: Where to start?  You know, one of the things that He told me, and let me just take you to this to 2005, when I was contemplating the changes that happened in the previous ten years from 1995 to 2005, in fact I was just driving down the road and I was saying and I would saying 1995; the Clinton Administration.  The 9/11 happened and here we were in 2005 and in war and I don’t even recognize my country for what it was ten years ago.  And He said, “If you think that you don’t recognize it now, truly I tell you, truly I’m telling you the truth, you won’t recognize it in another ten years.”  And some of the things that He’s talked about when the previous election, the Bush – Kerry elections there was a different feel to it in the spirit.  And I prayed and I was asking Him what that feel was and He said this, “It’s a spirit of socialism, and it can be delayed, but it won’t be stopped.”    And I said, “Where does it come from?”  And He said, “It comes from Europe,” and he says “There are those in America who want America to be European style nation.”  And you know all of that entails, Sid are difficulties for Christians in the traditional format.  What we see around the world, in times past when we say “Yes, look at the growth of Chinese House Churches you know, 130 to 200,000,000 Chinese all in house churches.  But look at the persecution they have and we excuse, we write off home based churches because we think it’s just for times of persecution.  But I’m telling you, when the Lord said that to me in November of ’01 and He said, I want you to do this as a research against a time to come, well you know that’s enough to get you thinking and I think that people sense now that something has changed in our world.  And that’s why so many people are leaving the church.  Not because they don’t like the church, and I am the first to acknowledge and bless and bless the traditional structure but millions upon millions of people are saying, “I want more, I want more.”

Sid: But you know millions of people are feeling that but they don’t see an option.

John: And that’s very true and the thing is that home based churches are under the radar of the traditional church.  It’s kind of like going to a particular news network; you are not going to get the news from a certain point of view if all you do is hear that one channel.   And it’s similar to that because within the context of the traditional, I think we said yesterday, that a lot of pastors think that revival to them means they are going to have to add an additional service on Sunday.  Or that more people are going to come to their church and they don’t realize that God doesn’t need their structure.  For the first 300 years Christianity started out in the homes, but the first home church if you will was Adam and Eve and the Lord in the Garden and He’s always had that structure.  He’s always moved first from the home and the family and the relationships in the community; and that’s what He’s doing in the world today.  Yeah, the Word and the Spirit do agree.

Sid: You know I’m reminded Jesus was asked what was the foremost the most important commandments and he said the, Schamah.  Which is to “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your strength and to love your neighbor as yourself.  It seems to me that a church that’s more like an extension of the family in the home there’s more likelihood for that to occur than a mega church.

John: Well, and that’s again if you look in the new testament it talks about the older men teaching the younger and the older women teaching the younger.  It even mentions the older Moms you know in the New Testament Paul told Timothy to let the older Moms teach the new moms what it’s like to be a Mom.  Well, you can’t do that in a program; that is only done through relationships.  I remember when our first born, our first born was not sleeping through the night and we didn’t know why and my wife went to a mother of four that we knew and she came over and she said, her name was Jeanne and she said, “Show me what you do, show me how you put the baby to sleep.  She came over in the evening and Barb got out first born son, he’s six months old ready for bed and everything.  The first thing she said is that he’s cold; he’s waking up because he’s cold.  Well you know what, we put some more blankets on him and that solved the problem.   But she would never, she couldn’t have gotten that through a program; it’s only through the relationships and that’s the richness of it.  Accountability comes through relationships.  Sometimes people will say, yes but what about accountability?  And I’m telling you accountability comes through the richness of the relationships that you have with others.

Sid: Well, a lot of people think that if you’re not a member of an organized church then you don’t have accountability, but the truth of the matter is most Pastors don’t even know the names of all the members of their church there so large. Whoop, our time is up.

Sid: If you’ve been listening to my guest this week, John Fenn I believe that the Holy Spirit is just bubbling within you because he had several visitations from Jesus about what is going to happen in the future, about what’s going to happen to our economy and how there will be, and what’s going to happen to our government.  And we will have only one option, but to go back to the way the church was originally and he had three visitations in particular.  The first one, he was showing what would happen in the future and that literally given a history lesson of what normally happens a move of God’s Spirit, everyone’s excited, everyone get’s charged up then they start churches and then they start Bible Schools and then they fossilize and then God has to have another move of God’s Spirit.  And then in the second move of God’s visitation that He had, the Lord started talking to him about what the first church was like and it was relationship based not program based, family based, not mega church based.  And then the third visitation He told you where he was headed with you was house churches.  Tell me about that third visitation.

John: Well, I had actually concluded about three weeks before and told my wife, I said, “You know I really don’t want to pastor a church again, but if I ever did I would do it like Paul did, because the whole of the New Testament was written to people sitting in Living Rooms in home based churches.  And I kind of let that slid and then November 4^th of 2001 at Edmonton, Alberta comes Jesus right in the middle of the worship.  And one of the things that He said to me as He came over was that, “I want you to be a resource, that you can facilitate the development of house churches around the world.”  And I was kind of taken about when He said, “I want you to start a house church network.”  And I would not say flippantly, but I was so surprised and I said, “Well, do you have a name for it?”  And I almost said it like that, and when you are in the Spirit like that what you really have in your heart comes out and so it sounds putrid, I’m horrified that I said that to the Lord, but that’s how it came out because I was so surprised.  And He just shot back right away, He said, “The Church without Walls International.”  Now what is interesting is if you goggle Church Without Walls you’ll get over a million hits.  It’s like calling a church, Grace or something like that.  But for me and for what he wanted for me that’s The Church without Walls International” and that’s as being out of Tulsa.  But then He laid hands on me, and He said, “You’ve been doing the work of an apostle but now I’m laying hands on you ordaining you as an apostle for this task.”  And He gave me further instructions that we could start; you know gather people together and start and He would regulate the growth of it to grow by the quality of the relationships.  And that’s really where our heart has been.  We really don’t want to grow for growth sake, we want to grow as we get to know one another, as we network together; and it’s what we’re doing all around the world today.  We have people traveling back and forth getting to know each other and that’s very rich and very relationship rich and very supernatural in the miracles that we see as well.

Sid: Well, I would like to go there right now, I mean you’re telling me things that provoke me to so much jealousy, you’re telling me in these little house churches you have such supernatural phenomena coming in as the glory cloud.  Tell me what occurs when that happens?

John: Well, you know part of it I want to preface it by saying this Sid. When you are realizing that you are doing things the way the New Testament actually describes it, that is knowing that from Matthew through to Revelation these letters went out to people sitting in living rooms and you can actually understand it within that context.  There’s an anointing, there is a confidence, and there’s an endorsement in the Spirit when you are doing things the exact same way that Paul and James and John did things.  And so it’s not unusual, we’ve had many times, not only in our home core church in Tulsa, but in our affiliates around this nation and in Europe and elsewhere and I get the same reports.  For instance, we’ll begin in worship and there’s several people’s eyes are opened up into the Spirit realm and see a white shinny cloud almost like a fog or a midst, the glory cloud that settles upon us and when that happens, and this has happened several times, nobody wants to talk, nobody wants to speak, it’s like the Lord is speaking so individually and so personally to everyone that no one wants to break that silence.  And it’s almost like a download often times where things are just dropped into us and I’ve had people tell me this.  Do you remember two or three weeks ago when we had the glory cloud there, I realized that something was put in me that I just became aware of last night when I was praying; it’s that sort of experience.  But because if you are on the outside and you say, “Awe. I want to experience that and you’re thinking that’s in a traditional church or program or we had a service like that one time.”  I’m telling people that you’re free to do this in your living room at anytime; God will meet you right there you have to think of it in terms of its normal for God to meet us when six to twenty people get together in a living room and seek Him.

Sid: Now, there’s other phenomena that will occur when sometimes every bit of stress leaves everyone; tell me about that.

John: Another thing we found, not only again in Tulsa but I’ve heard it in our Billings, Montana affiliate and elsewhere, and that is what can only be described as a rushing mighty wind that peoples ears are opened up in the spirit realm.  And again we’ve had meetings with ten or twelve people and we had a half a dozen of them see the same thing and that is like a spiritual tornado spinning around.  We’ve had it different times where it’s been a fire and other times when it’s been like a glory cloud spinning around.  One time in particular that stands out where it started in the middle of the room because in the house church we are kind of sitting around in a circle in the livingroom and as we continued to worship the Lord and just stay in His presence that swirling and the rushing sound in our ears grew until that wind, that Devine wind was actually blowing across everybody.  And you could feel it just literally pick up the stress and pick up the worry and the care right out of you and just like pull it out of you.  And it’s just some of the most amazing amazing things happen and again, there’s so many supernatural things that happen so great of a presence of the Lord that we consider this to be normal Christianity.

Sid: Well, one thing I’ve noticed this is the second time that I’ve interviewed you and every time I’ve interviewed you the presence of God is so tangible and I have to believe that this is what occurs in your house meetings.

John: That’s right and there’s something to say too Sid that house church is not a miniature of what we left.  House is not a miniature of what we left, if people are just meeting together and it’s just us four and no more.

Sid: And you have one leader and it’s like a mini-church in most house groups.

John: That’s right then you are not doing a house church.  House church is not based on the house and saying we’re going to have church in it.  It has to be the dynamic as presented in the New Testament which is participatory in nature rather than dictatorial, rather than one…

Sid: But don’t you find that we have so been conditioned to have a one man show that we sit back passively even if we were to come to one of your house church meetings; we’ve been trained not to participate.

John: And there are transition times, there are certainly a transition time where people have to adjust there thinking in so many different areas.  Sometimes it’s just a real step of faith just to go to somebody’s house that they don’t know or that they’re invited by a friend.  But what happens is that it’s so natural and it’s so relaxed and often times afterwards there’s food involved and you get to know one another.

Sid: Oh, that’s where the Jewish side comes in always, we always have food.

John: Well, there’s often times that’s where a lot of the real ministry takes place because you’ll see a couple people grab a plate of food and then go head off in the corner of the living room. And that’s where somebody feels lead to open up about a situation in their lives and that’s where they pray and that’s where they talk it out and that’s where the real discipleship really happens is over food.  And I think that that’s very biblical, very Jewish.  But it’s a supernatural element, that’s what I really want to communicate is that it’s more than people getting together and say we’re going to have church in the house.

Sid: You know even when you say this to me I still am trying to grasp it that the Lord wants with a passion relationship Christianity; speak a little bit about that.

John: Well, it’s not, and what happens in relationship Christianity, think about that.  How does, when the New Testament says for the Father’s to raise up the sons and the older women the younger women and discipleship through sons and daughters rather than just anointed meetings.  What happens is this those who know get an opportunity to bring someone alongside and show them how to do whatever they need to do in this walk through life together.  But then there comes a point where the person that knows how to do it steps back and watches their little friend, their son or daughter in the faith do it on their own.  And that’s the nature of the relationship based elements of it where leadership; my job as an apostle, my job as a leader is to train other leader to lay down the need to always talk to always be in charge.  It is the giving away of the church to the people; it is the empowerment of the people.  That’s where the relationship start, when they realize that you’re a person just like me, yet you know how to walk in the things of the Spirit.  So many times one of the greatest joys in my heart is to watch a person prophecy for the first time or lay hands on a person and watch a person be healed for the first time.  For the realization to come that you know what we are all equal in Christ, the same Jesus lives in each of us and it’s merely our gifts function differently; but that’s all the difference is.  We are all equal, me as an apostle is equal to someone who is a servant whose joy is to set up the chairs in a circle and vacuum the floor before people come.  We are all equal, and when people realize that its servant based and humility based leadership and that our job is to empower the people.

Sid: You know, one of the things that has been troubling me for a long time is the person that has a business card and at the end of their name it says apostle or at the end of their name it says, prophet.  It’s almost like they have to advertise who they are.

John: Don’t get me started on that brother, ha-ha-ha.  You know it’s Jesus said it this way in Mark chapter 10 verses 42 to 46 he said, you know the gentiles in leadership lord their authority and so others serve them.  He said, “It shall not be so among you, if you want to be the greatest leader then become the greatest servant.”

Sid: Our time has slipped away.

Sid: I recently spoke at a conference with my friend David Hertzog in a place called Sedona, Arizona and that is a real New Age capital.  It is an amazing city, absolute beauty; we were on top of a mountain in a tent.  It was probably one of the most glorious natural settings I have ever seen in my life.  And one of the other speakers was Bill Johnson and for the first time I saw a full service with Bill Johnson.  And I have to say I saw more instant miracles than I could recall ever seeing anywhere.  And I was pretty taken by Bill Johnson’s ministry although I know Bill Johnson and although I’ve interviewed him several times, I’d never really seen such a demonstration, such an awesome demonstration of God’s power.  And then Bill Johnson said,  Kevin Dedmon, who is on staff at Bethel Church with him had one of the strongest miracle anointings that he knew.”  So I wanted to get in touch with Kevin and I have him on the telephone right now from Redding, California.   And Kevin I want to take you back so it will kind of unfold because what God did for you I know your passion is He wants to do for everyone.  When you were eighteen you had been into drugs and you got saved at a concert and you just radically believed God’s Word and healings started almost immediately.  As a matter of fact you had, it’s a Hebrew word it’s called chutzpa that means nerve.  You had a lot of chutzpa because according to my notes you walked up to some people where one guy had a wrist problem and tell me about that.

Kevin: Well, he had a broken wrist and it was in a soft cast and it had just been broken and there were about twelve guys standing around and they were teenagers like myself and I walked into the group and I said, “Listen, if God doesn’t heal that guy’s wrist you can all beat me up, but if God heals that guys wrist then you guys have to get saved.”

Sid: You must have been really confident his wrist would be healed, I hope.

Kevin: I was so ignorant when I became a Christian; I thought the Old Testament was written in the 1960’s.

Sid: Well, a lot of Christians feel the same way unfortunately.

Kevin: So when I started reading the New Testament I just assumed that everything that was in there was true and was real and was something I was suppose to experience.  So I just went about healing people and…

Sid: So tell me about the person with the broken wrist.

Kevin: Well, he got totally healed right on the spot, he’s moving it all around and so I turned to each one of them and I said, “Okay now you got to give your life to Jesus right now because He’s real and he has a plan and purpose for your life.”  And four of them actually received Jesus right there on the spot.

Sid: That is so wonderful, but someone poured cold water on your parade.  In 1977 someone died from cancer that you prayed for and why did you stop praying for the sick pretty much after that?

Kevin: Well, actually I poured cold water on myself because, by the time I was two years into Jesus you know as a Christian the pastors in the city where I lived in Reno Nevada, they started calling me asking me to come and pray for people; and I thought that it was a little odd that they would have me come and pray, why they wouldn’t just do it.  But I would go and pray for people and we were invited to go pray for a woman who was dying of cancer and my fiancée, now my wife at the time she was my fiancée we went and prayed for this woman and we prayed for probably two hours.  And when we got home and hour later they called and said that she had died and I thought I had killed her because I didn’t have enough faith; that I wasn’t gifted enough.  That I should had somebody come over there who was better equipped and more empowered than I was and so for twenty some years I never would pray for the sick again because I use to tell people you don’t want me to pray for you because you’ll either get worse or you may die.  And I believed in healing, but I didn’t think I had what it takes and the enemy stole from me just that child like faith that I started with; because of that failure so to speak.

Sid: And then it was almost like history repeated itself because your son Chad started having a drug problem like you had and your wife forced him to go to the Brownsville Church in Pensacola, Florida and how did she force him to go?

Kevin: Well, he was sixteen at the time and it was really an issue of either we were going to emancipate him out of our home or he was going to go to this Brownville youth conference with another church in our city.  And he decided he would go and he got absolutely just transformed at this youth conference in Brownsville at the Revival there in Florida.

Sid: Well, he actually called your wife from there but what did you think when you heard he was on the phone?

Kevin: Well, actually the youth pastor called and my wife then called me and said that the youth pastor had called and my heart just sunk down to the floor and I said, “Okay that’s it.”  He’s out of here, there sending him home and she’s crying on the phone, Chad, it’s Chad our son, Chad;  and what, tell me what?   The youth pastor called and said that he’s never seen anything like this before, that Chad has repented, that he’s been crying for twenty-four straight hours and then he’s laughing for twenty-four straight hours.  And he’s totally transformed, he’s up on the stage and everybody here knows him all 1,000 of the kids know him and he’s the hit of the whole conference’ I’ve never seen anything like it.  And sure enough Chad came home and he was absolutely transformed and he hasn’t stopped since.  So twelve years later and now he’s traveling all over the world preaching and doing miracles and equipping and empowering and activating Christians to do the same thing.  It’s amazing!

Sid: But as a result of that, that almost brought your first love back and there was a touch biker that was living in your home and he started yelling, “What was he yelling about?”

Kevin: Well, he was like 6’4” biker and we were helping him out, he had herniated his disk and he had had surgery and it didn’t work, he was just writhing in pain for six months.  He was staying in one of our guest rooms and we were just kind of taking care of him and one night he just called form his room as we were having a leaders meeting and he just asked if we could carry him out to the living room so he could just be with some people.  He was just in so much pain and lonely and just didn’t know what was going to happen in his life.  And so at the end of the meeting he looks at me and he’s crying and he’s saying “Kevin, please, please can you pray for me.”  And up to this point for twenty some years I would just say no, I’m sorry I just don’t have the gift; even though I had written papers in college and gotten A’s on them on healing.  I had the theology, but I didn’t believe that I had the gift or what it takes to heal people.  And so I was looking around for somebody else on the leadership that might have a gift of healing, because I did believe in it.  And nobody there had a gift either so out of compassion I just said, “Okay, just stand him up and this was after I had come back from Brownsville.  My wife and I had been wrecked out in Brownsville, just the Spirit of God came on us and we were totally renewed and now we were revived and we were ready to go after the supernatural in a whole new way.  Even though we had been part of the Vineyard in the past and we had been taught about the supernatural, we had seen it we weren’t doing it ourselves.  So I had our roommate, he stood up and I put my hand on him and as I did, at the same I felt fire on my hand, he jumps up in the air.  And says my backs on fire, my backs on fire and this guy could not walk let alone jump.  He was jumping in the air, running all around, he was crying, he was laughing and just saying I can’t believe it, I can’t believe it I’m healed, I’m healed and I finally said, “Believe it obviously your healed.  And he was totally healed and that was what launched me into believing now that I really could lay hand on the sick and they would recover or the injured or the dead even you know.

Sid: And the thing that I love about your ministry as opposed to many others, your ministry is not to make Kevin Dedmon the superstar.  Your ministry is to empower people so that everyone can do what Kevin Dedmon does by having the realization that Jesus is in them.

Kevin: That’s exactly right, the same Jesus that’s in me in you is in everyone out there and you know I’m no different than anyone else.  We all have the Spirit of God inside of us and we’ve all been commissioned to heal the sick, to raise the dead, to cleanse lepers and to set people free.  So that’s what I teach, I try to equip, to empower and to activate people into the supernatural lifestyle that they have been called to that’s a natural lifestyle.

Sid: I have a copy of your brand new book “Unlocking Heaven” and the Subtitle is Key’s to living naturally supernatural.  And of course on my Television Show I say, “Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural.”  So you use that same terminology, but you’ve been involved in training so many young people, “Why is it the young people seem to get it quicker than those that have been in the church for fifty years?”

Kevin: Well, in actuality I’m seeing, I’m seeing young, old, men, women, leaders, non-leaders, every kind of person now being activated into the supernatural lifestyle.  But it is true the younger person is in the Lord, or in life they just tend to be more accepting of something new.

Sid: One of the men that has the key to reach the heart of the Jew is Kevin Dedmon who I interviewed last week; who is the Father of Chad Dedmon and I am overwhelmed.  You see the way to reach the Jew and the way to reach any person from another religion is not mental apologetics, but through a demonstration of the kingdom of God which they cannot deny.  And Chad you started early, I mean I have a little difficulty comprehending this, if I had been your father I think I would have spanked the people that had you do this, but when you were nine years of age there was a dumpster.  What did it look like?

Chad: Yeah, this is the way that we did evangelism at our church and what we would do we would just go and find people and we would go find those that were down and out; those that needed Jesus and really needed a supernatural Jesus.  And so we approached this dumpster, it was me and a guy that was living that we took in; a guy that was living at my parents’ house and he picked me up and put me in this dumpster that was a blue dumpster, it was very big and it was behind a liquor store.  And we would find people that would actually live there, they would drink the night before and then they would sleep in the dumpster.  I guess that was the most comfortable place, compared to maybe the asphalt they would sleep in the trash can.

Sid: So these were homeless people that were looking for a place out of the rain and the wind and the cold and everything.

Chad: Exactly, so we would go out to the people and so this particular time I get dropped into the dumpster, I’m nine years old and I don’t even know if I could crawl out.  So I’m dumped in and there’s this man that drank himself, drank so much the night before he was sleeping and I woke him up and I began to tell him about Jesus.  And so we bring him to church and he ends up getting saved and delivered supernaturally, where the alcohol, the desire for alcohol that void that was in his life that he was trying to fill with alcohol completely left and was filled with the love of Jesus.  And so we took him to a rehab and he later sent us a letter two years later to tell us that he reconnected, that he got remarried with his wife, reconnected with his kids, got his old job back and is now buying a house.

Sid: Now, just out of curiosity why did someone, who was it that dumped you into the dumpster at age nine?

Chad: Yeah, his name was Laguna, that was not his real name, but we gave him that name because we called him the goonster.  And he was 6’4” he was a body builder, he was an X bouncer.

Sid: I mean, why didn’t he get in the dumpster, why did he put you in the dumpster?

Chad: I guess I was the smaller one so I think him jumping in there, for some reason I got the short end of the stick.

Sid: Ha, you obviously did.  Let’s progress a little bit, and you’re a pastor’s kid and we find out about your father, Kevin who wrote the book that were offering this week called, “Unlocking Heaven.”  And Kevin Dedmon it said about your Dad by Bill Johnson who has one of the neatest miracle ministries I personally know of; that he said, “That your Dad had the strongest miracle anointing of anyone he ever heard of.”  So you’re raised by a pastor and you resented, as many pastor’s kids do.  Actually you did what your Dad did when he was younger you got into drugs at age thirteen; it was sort of like there was a generational curse or something.

Chad: Yes, it really was and so there was a generational curse, then also just being raised in a ministry, being born into the ministry I felt that false responsibility.  And so I really got angry at God, I got angry at my parents where I was mad that I was born, this is not my decision; and so I decided to rebel and I started doing drugs.  And I would see, that was probably the most demonic stuff, time in my life.

Sid: Now you were very gifted, you had what the Bible refers to as the gift of discernment, you could see what was going on in the visible world and you could literally see evil, you could see demons and you could literally see Jesus at the time.

Chad: Yes, yes I would see Jesus probably at a monthly; I would see Him in my room in the corner.  I would be doing drugs and He would be weeping and He’d be looking at me and He’d be crying and my heart was so hardened I said, “I know that you are the way, but you know what this is what I’m doing.”

Sid: And one day though it was a very turning point in your life, Jesus entered your room and he said something to you, what did He say?

Chad: He said to me, He said, “Chad, you’re either going to be my best friend or I’m going to had you over to Satan.”  And I knew what that meant, I had many close encounters to death, I knew that there was a hedge of protection over my life and I almost od, my friend almost od on crack, I got shot at, I almost got stabbed.  A number of different things happened or I knew that Jesus was protecting me and I knew that when Jesus was saying “I’m going to hand you over to Satan that it wasn’t going to be that I was going to be a drug addict for the rest of my life; that I would actually be killed by Satan.  And so I knew that this was an ultimatum that had serious consequences and looked at Jesus and I said, “I know that You are the only way that You are the truth; and so I said, “I want you to be my best friend.”  And He gave me this big hug and right when He hugged me, right when He touched me, all the drug addiction, the desire for drugs just completely left and I really became whole, I felt that peace that surpasses all understanding, it was amazing.

Sid: Okay, so that’s around thirteen, fourteen and at fifteen you get interested in girls and you develop and unhealthy relationship; then by the time you’re seventeen she breaks up with you and you’re depressed and now you turn to alcohol and drinking.  “How could you that after being hugged by Jesus””

Chad: I know, “Hope deferred makes the heart sick and desire realized is the tree of life.”  So that’s why it’s so important to grab a hold of your destiny and the promises that are over your life and do not let other people take that place in your life; that Jesus has to be that place.  And I let a girl into my heart that I shouldn’t have and when she broke up with me, it was probably the only time in my life that I was depressed and so I drank a few times and I got caught drinking and I got the end of my rope.

Sid: Now you didn’t have a Jewish mother, but you had a mother that acted just like a Jewish mothers are suppose to act, she forced you to go to a revival meeting in Pensacola, Florida at the Brownsville, Assembly of God with I guess a youth group and you had no choice.  She forced you to go so you went on this kicking and screaming so to speak; what happened to you there?

Chad: I got radically touched!  I mean again, I had no idea about this revival that was happening on the other side of our nation in Florida and so I was kind of going blind.  I didn’t know what was going on and I went there and I felt the Presence of God and I felt the tangible Presence of God and I knew that this was different; that this was not just church; this wasn’t just somebody speaking that God was present and God was tangible.  And so I responded by going to the altar and just saying, “God, I need to get my life right, I need to get it in order and I ended up just on my face and I was just begin to weep in a real deep just the Spirit of Repentance came and I just wept.  I wept so hard, I mean I had, you know snot, I was crying, I didn’t care who was around me, and I ended up starting to wail, I started screaming, “God, I need You, I need You, I need You” And there was another young man that was with me at the time and he was kind of going through the same experience and we were a good two hours weeping and then something just clicked without looking at each other, we began to laugh.  We began to just get filled with the Spirit of God where we just began to fill this overwhelming joy where we begin to laugh from that point all the way into our hotel room, throughout the whole night and for the next two days we could not stop laughing.

Sid: Two says!  That a long time to laugh, you know “A merry heart is good medicine,” but this is ridiculous!

Chad: Yeah, it was amazing you can’t get too much of a good thing.

Sid: Then you get back at high school; you are radically changed, “What happened at your high school?”

Chad: Yeah, we started like a Bible study prayer meeting at our lunch for our High School and we had, it just started growing more and more; there was just a definite hunger in the High School.  And we ended up getting about 150 people that were just going after God where we would just be in our just during the hours of our High School and we would meet at different other times as well where we would just get together and we would pray, “God we want more of You.”  So there was this desperation and this hunger of about 150 people that just cried out for more of God.

Sid: How many got saved at your High School?

Chad: Oh, there was probably about 100 to 150 people.

Sid: Now that is normal, how would you like to be normal, well one thing that would make you normal would be if you had the same Dad as Chad had, Kevin Dedmon…

Sid: I recently got a hold of CDs from John Paul Jackson on the Perfect Storm.  And I am so excited about the revelation that he has because we’re about ready to experience so much glory where ever we go that we will be walking like the Prophet Samuel where not one of his words fell to the ground.  And speaking about a word falling the ground without it coming to pass, I have John Paul Jackson on the telephone and the last time you were on my show you prophesied about Netanyahu, do you remember that?

John Paul: I do remember that, you kind of dragged it out of me.  Ha, ha, ha.

Sid: That’s right, you didn’t want to say it as I recall, but we pulled it out of you and repeat your prophecy.

John Paul: Well, that Netanyahu would become the next Prime Minister. But that it would be during a very very difficult time in the nation of Israel.  And that he was, he was brought, would be brought into power for that particular time frame; and that God had designed him in order to make the difficult choices that he was going to have to make.

Sid: And boy is he involved in it right now.  Just out of curiosity has God shown you anything new about Israel?

John Paul: Well, yes and I’m very very concerned about the push on Netanyahu and the pressure that is being put upon him right now.  Not only within the governmental structure of the Knesset and the structure of Israel itself but even more so what is happening here in the United States under the current administration that is really, really trying to force Israel to give back land to the Palestinians and then at the same time establish a coexistent state in the land of Israel.

Sid: John Paul just so that our listeners will understand a bit about you, when you were thirteen years of age you had encephalitis and you literally died for forty minutes, you were brain dead.  But your mother who had received a vision when you were born started crying out to God and you literally were above your body.  I’ve heard a lot of people say this, and you could see what your mother was doing and what she was praying; tell me about that.

John Paul: Right I was leaving my body and then I was slowly…and I was like looking through a window at myself going towards a brilliant light that was behind me.  But I was pretty captivated at what I was seeing and I saw my doctor, my mother, my father.  They were there and I was, the doctor said that I had died.  My mother began to wail and to cry out to God, saying that I have never fulfilled what God had told her.  And angel had come to her and visited her before I was conceived and told that she was going to bare a son after she had miscarried a child and that she was to call me John Paul and that I would have what the angel termed the eleventh hour ministry.  And my mother understood that to mean a kind of a end times ministry in the last days right before the returning of the Lord.

Sid: And then at age thirty you had a visitation from the Lord in which God showed you some of your future.  Tell me one thing you saw at that time.

John Paul: I saw the difficult economic times that we’re having right now.  I saw the issue of gold, the issue of the collapse of the dollar, I saw that at that particular time, when I was thirty years of age.

Sid: What was the issue of gold that you saw?

John Paul: The issue of gold was that gold would be $2,000 an ounce.

Sid: My goodness I better run out and buy some, forget this interview, no, I’m just teasing!  And I remember you talking about the vision you saw of the Challenger blowing up.

John Paul: Right, I drew that out and called NASA and tried to warn them about the issue and they informed that they had thousands of check and fail systems and that there was no problem.  Thank you very much for calling and basically they blew me off.

Sid: But the reason I’m interviewing this week is that you have a DVD called “The Coming Perfect Storm.  Now you’ve been getting the prophetic words for this for a number of years and you’ve just started speaking this out publically.  Why are you speaking it out now?

John Paul: Well, I didn’t want to, I had spoken bits and pieces of it out as I got it over the years and then the Lord started giving me more and He began to tell me that it was time for me to tell this.  And the response that I got from many in the church when I would periodically start to tell some of these things, they wanted to hear peace and safety, they didn’t want to hear that things were going to become difficult and so I tried to avoid it.  But the Lord began to deal with my heart and began to deal with me personally in saying, “This is what you were born to do, I want you to do this.”  So I began to do this about two years ago, I began to talk about what was coming and the various places and then as last year, 2008 came I began to escalate the amount that I would talk about it as the Lord began to move upon me.  And I began to get even more, the more I would tell the more I would receive; I would have more visions, I would have more dreams, and so this continued to grow so it’s not like I gave it and that’s the end of it.  Even since I made the DVD, which will be talking about some of the things today there have been more things that the Lord has given to me.

Sid: Now why is this storm coming, what are the reasons in your opinion that this is going to occur?

John Paul: Well, the Lord actually spoke to me and told me this in a dream and he showed me his hand lifting from this nation, and in this encounter I saw the hand of the Lord lifting from the nation and the higher the hand of the Lord came off of the nation the more darkness began to infiltrate underneath his hand.

Sid: You know I have never seen a time in my lifetime where there has been so much ungodliness in our country, blatant; it seems as though almost daily it’s getting worse.

John Paul: It is and it is going to continue and one of things the Lord showed me was that the corruption that we’ve seen so far would be nothing.  And that certainly has proved true over the last two years.  But it’s also going to prove even more true in the coming two years.

Sid: Now President Obama made a statement that a lot of Christians found controversial, he said that we are not longer a Christian nation.  I didn’t find it controversial, I found it sadly true.

John Paul: It is sadly true, that doesn’t mean we weren’t formed to be a Christian nation, that we weren’t originally purposed to be a Christian nation, but he was speaking from, I believe he was speaking from the issue of what we are practicing right now.  And I don’t believe we are practicing the level of Christianity that the Bible spells out for us to be practicing.  I believe the best the nation is practicing a lukewarm form of Christianity.

Sid: I guess lukewarm is the right word to be using, I mean it is so different than the Christianity of the Bible.  It almost seems to be, it’s sort of like Rabbinic Judaism today is so different than the Judaism of the Bible, religious Christianity today is so different than the religion of the Bible.

John Paul: It is I believe that that part of what the judgment is coming for and a lot of people really hesitate on that word judgment because there are so many different definitions of it.  But my definition of it is basically this; judgment is from God’s hand lift to the degree God’s hands lift the judgment gets more severe.  God is the only thing that is keeping this country protected or any country on the face of the earth; keeping them protected from what the evil one wants to do to them.

Sid: Well, I’m overwhelmed of the specific things and the so many different arenas that you see coming, but you also say God has given you a ten year window into the future.  And these things, many of them that you are talking about are starting to happen now, but it could take ten years for them to fully develop.  And you call it the “Perfect Storm” why?

John Paul: The Lord told me that there’s five major storm fronts that’s coming to the earth and particularly in the United States.  And those five storm fronts were the storms of religion, the storms of economics, the storms of politics, the storms of war, and the storms of geophysical events.  And as each of those storms, each of those fronts would have different elements of the storm; like you’ll see a thunderstorm coming, you’ll see rain as an element, you’ll see hail as an element, you’ll see various lightning as an element, thunder as an element and so on.  Each storm would have different elements to it and that each element would not strike the entire United States, but there would be elements that would strike various areas.  For example there may be economic woes in some areas and geophysical issues like tornadoes, pestilence, blight, in other areas.  There might be political blight in the other areas, but it’s the near proximity of the storms happening to each other that end up being like a domino effect.  One storm hits another, hits another and it compounds what happens because of the storm; the results of the storm gets compounded.

Sid: And I have to tell you Mishpochah you would think that this would breed fear when you hear of all these specific things in each of these five areas that John Paul Jackson saw that is going to happen; but when you talk about what’s going to happen to true Christians in this generation, I mean I’ll just pull one.  The glory of God in someone’s house, describe that.

John Paul: One of the things that I saw in one particular area that was plagued by food shortages was that people would pray, they would join hands around the table.  There is nothing on the table; there is nothing on the stove, there was nothing be cooked, there was nothing being prepared, there was nothing to have, they join hand and they pray and they gave thanks to the Lord for what they were about to receive and when they were finished praying there was food on the table.  And it was like the manna that was provided in the wilderness, there was food that was provided on the table and I believe that it is going to take a stronger level of faith, a stronger commitment to God, a stronger resolve on our parts; but in these things that are coming those that resolve will happen, a commitment will happen, that insight, that understanding, a relationship with the Lord will happen again.

Sid: In effect Christians will not want to be, they are going to cross over from lukewarm to red hot was where we belong anyway.

John Paul: Yes.

Sid: Oh, our time has slipped away.

Sid: Well, I have a woman that’s been raised up by God that is as radical as I am and I believe as radical you are for the things of God.  She has such a hunger for God it’s contagious.  And I want to find out a bit more about Patricia King’s background because as I’m reading my brief notes here I see that we have a lot of similarity.  Patricia King reached a critical point in her life where she actually believed that she would end up in a mental hospital and that they’ll throw the key away.  Well, as I like say Patricia I thought that I would either be dead or in prison or insane.  And that’s the way and that’s not exaggerating before I knew the Messiah.  But you were in a real bad bad way and you were about ready to have a baby and you wanted your baby baptized and things started changing.  Tell me about that.

Patricia: That’s right.  Well Sid, I was in a very traumatic state emotionally.  In fact I was so erratic emotionally I had no control over my emotions.  And people outwardly didn’t understand that, they only saw one part of me that I would present in public and then behind the scenes I was in torment.  I had two little children at the time, a brand new baby and I was afraid for their lives because of my erratic behavior.  So I called an Anglican minister because I felt that it was time for me to expose what was going on behind the scenes in my life and to try to do something about it.  And I had this belief if I did that I would be committed and so I wanted to make sure my children were Christened because I thought if they were then if I never got out of the mental institution then that maybe I would see them in Heaven or something.  And so when I called the Anglican minister he came over within twenty minutes of hanging up that call and began to share the gospel with me and that was my first time of hearing the gospel.

Sid: So actually this was the first light that was really beginning to shine on your world of darkness.

Patricia: That’s right, it was like I had gone to Sunday school as a little girl, but I never new, I never knew that you could have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ by having Him live inside of your heart, inside your life and have him transform you; and literally be your life in you.  And when this minister came in and shared certain things with me I didn’t accept it right away.  In fact I was scared, I realized that I had been demonized because of my past and so those demons started to react in me and through me against this minister, but he never gave up on me.  Invited me to a meeting that week in which I ended up going and that is where the power and the presence of the Lord was so real, so tangible I felt him, I saw him on people’s faces.  I saw that light that did penetrate the darkness and that night after I got home I knelt down before the Lord, I said, “Lord Jesus if you are real, like I saw in those people tonight, if you are real like the presence I felt tonight, I would love for you to come into my life and forgive me of all my sins.”  And he didn’t hesitate Sid, He was just, I felt His presence come in, I felt my sin and my guilt and my shame get removed and I actually felt the new life of Christ enter me.  So I was so blessed to have that experience where…

Sid: But you know, the thing that interests me so much is when I first became a believer I had the presence of God. I felt so clean; actually I got set free of all the demons from the New Age that I’d been involved in.  But, I didn’t understand repentance, no one had ever taught, coming from a Jewish background, no one had taught me, now, I might add I did nothing but repent for the next few years.  However, with you it sounds like it was just in this one night you became totally cleansed!

Patricia: Yeah, I actually felt the cleansing power of the Lord.  Before I became a Christian I knew that I was in trouble, like no one had to tell me I was a sinner, I knew I was, I just didn’t know how not to be.  I tried self help programs, I tried of course all kinds of spiritual things, that is what actually got me into the New Age which I was practicing before I got saved.  It was because I was searching for answers so I went for spiritual help, and of course it only made it worse because anything that is not of Christ is just going to destroy you even more.  And so I didn’t need to be told I was a sinner, I knew I was doing wrong things, I knew I was hurting people, I knew that I was hurting myself; but I didn’t know how to overcome.  And so when Jesus came into my life and I felt the guilt, the shame and everything leave me, then that was my greatest gift, was to know forgiveness and to know that I could now have a fresh start.

Sid: And the thing that’s amazing to me and was amazing for me as well as for you, is that you immediately went into the streets! I immediately started telling everyone I knew about Jesus, I hadn’t even read the New Testament.

Patricia: Ha, ha ha, I know and it’s like as a believe when that life enters you don’t understand why it’s good, you just know it is and so the next morning after I got Born Again I went to my neighbors.  I knocked on the door to the first neighbor and I said, “Last night Jesus came into my life and took all my sin away and He can do it for you too.”  Because I thought I was absolutely convinced that the only reason that the whole world was not saved yet was because they had not experienced what I had experienced.  And if they could just hear that Jesus could take their sin away they would want him.  And so I was really surprised at the first door that I didn’t get the response I was thinking I would get.  I thought they would say, “Oh yes, yes I would love to have my sins taken away.”  I was so sure that everybody would want it, but instead they said, “Patricia are you crazy; have you gone crazy?”  And I remember saying, “No, I was crazy, but now I’m not crazy.”  And it’s like they just looked at me like I had gone off my rocker.  And of course that news spread around the neighborhood.  But I continued to go door to door that day, I could not keep quiet, I would go out on the streets and share with whoever would listen.  I was so excited about having this new life, and it was so real and you know Sid, most nonbelievers are only one revelation away from receiving Christ because as soon as the light goes on you know that you know that you know.

Sid: But do you know what I feel sorry for?  I feel sorry for Christians that believe because their parents believe and they have attended church their whole life and they could go their whole life and miss the whole purpose of life and think their fine.

Patricia: Yeah, that’s true.

Sid: And another thing you know, that when I watch you on television I see something that is so wonderful; I see you out on the streets with people that are in the worse shapes of anyone in society and I see a compassion and a love in you.  Where does this compassion come from when I see you out in the slum areas and just putting your arms and weeping with these people?

Patricia: Well, you know Sid, that’s exactly where I was and that’s where I would be now if God hadn’t loved me to life.  When I received Christ, I didn’t deserve to be loved, none of us do, but we serve a God of love; He is love.  And He saw everything about me, He saw everything I’d done in the shadows; He saw everything I did in the secret places; He saw it all, all the horrible things that I did and yet He loved me perfectly.  On the night that I received Jesus Christ I felt that love fill me; and I came to know that God is a God of love; He is love.  And so when you know Him as a God of love and when you’ve received His mercy then it’s easy to give.  Freely, freely we have received, so we freely freely give.  And I do love; I love loving people to life.  And I find that Sid and I know that you know this too is that most often people don’t need a good preach, but they need a good love.  They need to be touched by the presence of love and I find that when people feel the presence of God His love and His favor towards them, His friendship is being offered towards them that they melt and they reach out to Him.  And why wouldn’t you?  He’s so delicious, He’s so amazing; He’s so there’s no one like Him.

Sid: …Tell me one changed life of someone that had attended your school.

Patricia: My gosh, this is so awesome; I mean we get emails all the time Sid, of people who said that the Glory School when they attended it was there point of being transformed.  I remember one Baptist couple; in fact he was a Pastor and had never been introduced to the supernatural and did not understand that the scripture teaches very clearly that we have invitation to access and the reality of the Kingdom realm by faith; and he had never seen that in the scripture before until he took the Glory School.  And it opened up a brand new world to him and in fact now he operates in the prophetic…

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Ryan Wyatt, and Ryan, you teach people how to activate every one of their spiritual senses. Of all the spiritual senses that are activated within you, what is the strongest or perhaps your favorite?

RYAN: Probably the sense of sight. You know, just like we could see, hear, smell, touch and taste in the natural, we have those senses in the spiritual.

SID: So how does the spiritual sense of sight work?

RYAN: God speaks to me a lot through vision, through visions in my mind. Many people might hear the voice of God like a thought. A lot of times, I see things like for words of knowledge, for people, or for healing. A lot of times when I move in healing in a meeting, I’ll look out over the crowd and I’ll just see visions of different people being healed.

SID: Give me one real story.

RYAN: Well we had a woman in Cincinnati who was in such a severe car accident that the bones in her legs were crushed. The doctors removed the bones and put solid steel rods in her legs. She no longer had knees.

SID: That must have been painful.

RYAN: Very painful, yes. She had steel in her hips. She could not bend her knees. She had solid legs. And in the atmosphere, just beginning to move in a word of knowledge and speaking to bones, I said, do something you couldn’t do before. And she had no knees. So she tried to bend these steel rods in her legs and ended up bending her knees down to the ground. It was an absolute miracle. She felt for the pins and the bolts in her legs. You could feel with her hand. She could no longer feel them. She had kneecaps that she didn’t have before. And God, we don’t know how, but He removed the metal, gave her brand new legs, brand new bones in her legs in a flash of eye, a blink of an eye, in a moment.

SID: Is this unusual when you speak or does this happen more than once?

RYAN: Oh, it’s happened more than once. We’ve had people with twig legs, you know, paralyzed legs and had muscles…

SID: What do you mean by twig legs?

RYAN: Well there was a man who 34 years ago had a surgery on his back. They accidentally, the doctor snipped a nerve to his leg and paralyzed his leg. So now he’s in my meeting 34 years later and he’s got what’s called a twig leg. It atrophied. There’s only like three inches around. And he felt a hand press against his back, and I believe it was angels assisting in ministry, because that’s what they do. They’re there to glorify God and to help heal the sick. And his wife looked down and brand new muscle was exploding in his leg. Feeling came back. And he walked up front to testify as if he was never paralyzed.

SID: Now were his legs still what you call twig legs?

RYAN: No. The muscle grew and within just a moment his twig leg became the size of his normal leg and literally grew brand new muscle in the moment.

SID: You know, I am amazed, in awe, and I love the spiritual senses being activated. You had a friend that you gave much insight of the invisible world in Australia that had his spiritual sight activated. Explain.

RYAN: Yeah. For four months, night and day, he could see, hear, smell, touch and taste in the Spirit, and he learned so much about the spirit realm. One of the biggest things he learned, SID, is that what you think and what you feel is like communication in the spirit realm. In the natural, you know, we just talk or we have body language, or whatever. But in the spirit, thoughts and feelings are communication. And so many people think that they can shift the atmosphere around them or make the atmosphere around them better by manipulating things around them. But what he began to realize is that what you release from you empowers the atmosphere around you. So if you want to live in the presence of God, then release praise and worship to God. Have worship music.

SID: What did he see with his eyes when people were angry?

RYAN: Well he saw that thoughts were emitted like a color, a frequency and a fragrance. And for many people they were like blood in the water for sharks. You know, sharks can smell one drop of blood in the water from a long way away. So when people would think things like anger, bitterness, unforgiveness, depression, it would release a frequency, a communication in the spirit realm.

SID: Maybe that’s why Jesus said, “Fear not.”

RYAN: Yes.

SID: Because when you fear you said it’s like sharks headed towards blood in the water.

RYAN: They can smell your fear. They can smell your anger, and they can smell the issues of your heart and it empowers them, Sid, to form an atmosphere around your life that’s like a closed Heaven. And Jesus opened that.

SID: So does the reverse work when you’re worshiping God? What did he say?

RYAN: Absolutely. When you’re praising God, when you’re worshiping God, when you’re filled with joy, you’re blessing people, it empowered the Kingdom of Heaven to form an atmosphere around you. You know, Jesus said, “I want you to pray that my Kingdom would come, my will would be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.” He wants the atmosphere in your life to look like Heaven. There’s no sickness in Heaven. There’s no depression in Heaven. And when you begin to focus on the reality of God and just begin to live a lifestyle of praise and worship…

SID: Well wait a second now. The atmosphere is changing here. I believe there are people, and I’m hearing a very weird word for me. And when I hear something weird, I know it’s God. You know, it’s like out of… I’m hearing “hair”. I believe that hair is being grown on your head. Hair is coming back in Yeshua. That’s Hebrew for Jesus’ name.

RYAN: I keep seeing skin. I literally see some of you watching this and the presence of God is coming upon you right now. You’re feeling tingling on your skin. You have a skin disease, irritation of the skin and the Holy Spirit is touching you right now. I also just decree to those of you dealing with problems in your bones, you have bones that are out of alignment, herniated disks; scoliosis. Maybe you have metal in your body. Right now, we just decree to your body right now, we command bones to pop back into alignment. We command metal to dissolve, to disappear, and we just speak creative miracles. Cartilage, I see cartilage coming back into place in your body, in your joints. Some of you, I see people with fused vertebrae in different fused parts of your body and God is releasing those fuse bones and creative miracles coming right now. Hearing, right now. Hearing, right now.

SID: Stop for one second. I have to tell you. I heard “ear”. Just a moment before, the same spirit that’s speaking to you, it’s speaking to me. That’s a double witness. If you have a hearing problem or an ear problem because I saw an ear. Go ahead. Continue.

RYAN: Yeah. It’s for everybody. But I also specifically see a man, and I believe it’s your right ear and you’re having a hearing problem. Maybe you have a hearing aid. And we just speaking healing to you right now. I encourage you take that hearing aid out. Test your ear. The Holy Spirit is touching you right now in Jesus’ name. I also am hearing areas in the mouth, the jaw and dental work. And I just speak to your jaw, TMJ going right now in the name of Jesus. That clicking stopping right now in Jesus’ name in your jaw

SID: Now can everyone have their spiritual senses activated? But you know what I believe? It’s not so much you praying a prayer. It’s someone reading God’s Word. When you read, when you meditate on God’s Word, what do you do?

RYAN: When I meditate on God’s Word, I realize that these are written words unless God breathes on them. So when I read God’s Word, I say, “Holy Spirit, come and illuminate this to me. Speak to me through this.” What happens is I’m reading the Word, the Bible that many people read, but it becomes a doorway into encounter, into moments of intimacy with the Lord where I go from the written Word to the Living Word.

SID: Speaking about going from the written Word to the Living Word, God wants to display His might, His Kingdom, not yours, not your might, not your kingdom, His might, His Kingdom through you. But the first step is you have to transfer kingdoms. You have to go from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of the son of His love. The way you do that is to tell God that you’re sorry for every wrong thing you’ve done your entire life and believe the blood of Jesus washes away your sins and then you’re as righteous as Jesus. And when you’re clean, you say, “Jesus, come inside of me. Be Lord of my life.” Say it out loud. You don’t need my words. You just need a heart hungry for God.

Sid: You know in the tumult of your day, day to day life do you long for peace powerful enough to defeat your greatest fears?  Strength to overcome your mountains of obstacles you face or the presence of God to fill you with power?  I’m interviewing Michael Galiga; he does not speak by theory, he’s not just some teacher that knows how to teach, he is a man that has won every battle.  He has found how you can draw into the secret place of God’s presence and power and wisdom.  He get’s downloaded ideas that result in $l00,000,000 real estate deals.  He has found that whatever the problem, whether it’s unemployment, whether it’s your facing foreclosure or whether it’s sickness or whether it’s broken relationships, whether it’s plain fear, being paralyzed and not being able to make a decision God has something better for you.  You can win every battle and Mike you talk about in your book, “Win Every Battle” an amazing experience when God called you to Israel in 2005.  But you put out a fleece, what was that and why would you even put out a fleece?  I think it’s great to go to Israel, what’s the big deal?

Michael: Well, Sid I was raised in a family that when times got tough and just the year before started my own business and moved back to Oklahoma to take care of my Mom and we didn’t have a lot of money and so the way that I was raised and you don’t have a lot of money you work hard, and if times get hard, you work harder and harder and harder.  And so I’m praying one night and journaling and God says okay, I want you go to Israel and I’m going “Well, I kind of wanted to go, but I don’t want to go right now because I need to work hard.  But so any way eventually I agreed to go, I said, “Okay, okay I’ll go, period, but I have these two residential lots that my wife and I bought and we don’t want them anymore and it’s very expensive, a lot of money Sid, and so we needed to sell them, we needed to sell them since we didn’t want them.  So I said, God, I’m asking you, I’m going on record, I’m asking you, I will go to Israel but I’m asking you to have both of these lots in contract, not closed but in contract before I leave.  And then there was another fellow that owed me a lot of money and I’ll say the amount, not to brag, but it was $200,000 and I will name his name Bob in Indiana.  You Bob has told me that he’s not going to pay me.  And so I would like to be paid before I leave, and he said to both of those things, done, I’ll take care of it, you go to Israel.  So about, three or four days before I left something like both lots are still for sale and I don’t have the $200,000 so again it was about four or five days before I left, the phone rang about 10:30 a night that was the broker that had the listing and he said, “Mike I have this offer, can I come by?”  He comes by, it was a great offer, it was perfect.  My wife and I sign it and we say yahoo, praise the Lord, but we still have another lot for sale and don’t have the $200,000.  So I continue to praise the Lord and this is stretching me like big time.  And so the night before I left, it was 10:30 at night a broker calls the same song and dance, he calls and he’s got a great offer on the second last lot.  Can I come by and he came by and it was a full price perfect offer and we sign it.  And so that part of the deal that I struck with God was done the night before I left, but I still don’t have $200,000.  I’m still, I’m maxed out Sid, you know I’m walking in ground that I’ve never walked on before.  And so I said, “I’m going to Israel” and I went to bed that night, and I said, “I’m going to Israel, I don’t care I’m going no matter what, even if I don’t have the 200,000, but I know God is going to give it to me.  So I got up that morning, my wife and my little boy drove me to the airport, I went in the airport and waved goodbye to them and I sat at the gate Sid. Thirty minutes before that plane took off I felt like a quarterback that knew that he was going throw the touchdown pass with twenty seconds left in the Super Bowl.  I just knew it Sid, I just looked around at people and said, these people are nice people, but they don’t have a clue of what’s about to happen.  I got on the plane, I sat on my seat, there was nobody next to me, suns coming in through the window, and I said God this is the eleventh point nine hour and I know that you are going to deliver me and the stewardess came on and said, hey, if you got a cell phone on, it ought to be off and just then the door shut and you know when the door shut and it compresses and you can hear it?

Sid: Right.

Michael: You’re not getting off that plane at that point, you cannot get off that plane so I’m going to Israel, but the plane had not started back out yet.  We hadn’t left, my phone rang and that about ten second period, it rang as I was punching the button to turn it off and he said, “Hey, this is David from Indiana, I just wanted you to know that we just wire transferred $200,000 payments to your account and I know that you’re going on a trip out of the country, have a great trip.”  So I spoke to him for about ten seconds and I hung up.  Two things, the money was there before I left, but only after the door shut Sid.  Second of all, I never told him I was going anywhere.

Sid: How did you feel when you got that telephone call?

Michael: Well, I melted into the seat, you know this is a place that most people dream about going and they never go there because they haven’t taken that step into faith.  And I’m telling you, I was a hurting unit, when I got on that plane I was full of faith, but I was thinking either you show up of I go down in flames.  I’ve never done this before, ever.  And so I stepped out on faith and that’s when it happened.  That’s when the supernatural takes over.

Sid: And when you were coming back or maybe even before you found out, you heard from God that the devil had a strategy against you.

Michael: Yeah, very real I’m journaling about a month before I left and I’m journaling, I’m writing down what God’s telling me to do and what He’s up too and He says, Mike, Hey your sensitive point is your wife and child.  And the forces of darkness, satan and his minions are going to come after your wife and child and because you’re going to Israel because I told you to and your being obedient, I the living God am going to protect them with my hand, I’m not sending somebody else, I’m going to protect t them with My hand, Myself.  And I thought that sounds cool, I love that.  So I’m coming back from Israel, I land at the Oklahoma City airport and turn on, been gone ten or eleven days, and my wife is on the phone leaving me voice mails, leaving me voice mails, very stressed out, and sobbing.  And so I pull up at the gate and a fireman is waiting at the door and a stewardess says Mike Galiga where are you and she said, everybody sit down, Mike Galiga get up here right now, I run to the front of the plane and she says, “Your wife and son have been hit by a pickup truck in the Will Rogers International Airport here in Oklahoma City.  I know where their car is and they’re on their way to Mercy Hospital, come with me.  So I did, I got in the car, but Sid my heart rate didn’t even bump any.  It was a supernatural sustenance sustaining experience where I knew that God had told me that He would protect them and He did.  No matter what somebody told me, I knew that they were fine.  My heart rate didn’t increase, I didn’t sweat, I didn’t get excited, I got in her car, drove to the hospital and got there and this is the story that I was told.  Mike we were walking into the cross walk and I saw an object, I had the umbrella up and it was drizzling and I saw an object to my right and it ended up being a pickup truck and an arm and a hand an arm, a big one pushed me back out of the way of the truck, but it still hit Michael, threw him ten feet in the air and he landed on his feel looking at the front bumper of the truck and the truck skid to a stop.

Sid: Wait a second, “How old is Michael?”

Michael: He would have been five.

Sid: You tell me a five year old is hit by a car, goes ten feet in the air and lands on their feet?

Michael: Looking at the front bumper of the truck and the point of the story is they couldn’t find anything wrong with him, an hour later or so they released him, he didn’t even have a scratch.

Sid: What did this teach you about obedience?

Michael: Well, it taught me that these are things that happen when God says that I want you to do this or that.  And when you do that and you step out on faith with direction that you can’t fail.  And what I’ve learned is that faith translated into people’s terms that don’t go to church and they don’t understand this Sid is living as absolutely far into the uncertain as you possible comfortably can every day; because we all value certainty.

Sid: You know what I find in my life, the most exciting times I have with God is when I walk on water.  I’ve never really walked on water, but some of the things that I’ve done have been equivalent to it.  But it doesn’t happen until I put myself in that position.

Michael: Yeah.  That’s exactly right, once you get a taste of this there’s no going back.

Sid: It is like I was telling a few friends, I do meeting where I lecture on the supernatural and I promise that people will be healed.  Well, I’m just like you Michael, I can’t heal anyone, but when I put God on the line and unsaved people come, they get healed.

Michael: Yeah, it’s amazing.

Sid:  Michael you have battled fear and won, explain what fear is.

Michael: Well, first of all fear is a thing, and unchurched people, people that aren’t use to seeing this and hearing it are baffled by it at first, but fear first of all is a thing.  It’s a demonic force, it’s not just a feeling and those things are all, have been conquered by the blood of Christ.  I know that that sounds weird, but I’m a businessman, but when you take that blood and say “Fear you can’t be here anymore you have to leave.  And you begin to reprogram your mind and ask God to reprogram it from living in the certainty, worshipping certainty to saying I am going to X out certainty on my values list and plug in uncertainty.  I want to live in an uncertain world because that is where all the passion is and that’s where all the joy comes from.  The Bible calls it faith, when you live in faith, your happy, you’re joyful.  No you don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow, but what happens tomorrow is pretty awesome.

Sid: It’s pretty awesome, again it’s easy for you to teach on this but what to me is what is awesome is some of the experiences you have had where you have literally overcome a spirit of fear.  And on tomorrow’s broadcast we’re going to talk about overcoming. But, you know when you were talking about in 2005 when you went into your closet and you literally were saying I’m not coming out of here until I experience the same presence of God that King David experienced.  But the issue is that was when you really finally surrendered.

Michael: Yeah, that’s the first step Sid, step number one is absolute total, unconditional, unrevocable utter complete, wall to wall surrender.

Sid: How freeing is that?

Michael: It’s freeing to the extent that it’s hard to believe that you’re that free.

Sid: Well, listen I want you to win every battle; I want you to conquer fear, I want you to be so free.