SID:  Hello, Sid Roth your investigative reporter here with LEIF Hetland.  There is a bankruptcy in this land; it is a bankruptcy of the love of the father.  And the truth is Almighty God has more than enough to go around.  Leif, I want you to tell us the way God intended things to be, not the way they became, but what did He intend for us? 

LEIF:  well, in the book of beginning, and we call it a book of Genesis, and I know both my Jewish friends, Muslim friends, Christian friends, and even most atheists know the story, even if they have a different view of how God created mankind. After six and one-half days of God creating everything that our five senses can experience, He came to the highlight of His creation.  He created mankind, and He did it in His own image.  He wanted Adam to reflect how God looks like.  God, a perfect God, created a perfect man He didn’t need that, for a perfect reason, to live in intimacy, to live in relationship.  the first thing that Adam ever saw was the face of God.  The first voice he ever heard was the voice of his father, the first experience he had was the presence of his father.  And then he was placed in a place called Eden, and it means pleasure, in the pleasure of the Father.  That was the Father heart of God, for every person in the world, God wanted them to experience first of all, to hear His voice, to be able to see His face, to live in His presence, to be able to experience His pleasure and He had provided six days of creation everything that was good for mankind and to live in such a relationship with God, and eventually to multiply and to be able to display, for the whole world to be able to see how God looks like, by looking at mankind.  But then we know fall came in, sin came in, and we have all been affected by it.  We have heard of story after story of people that have even been on your program how sin and Satan have destroyed their lives, and I am sure that there are people even watching right now that know it, and they have experienced the consequences of it.  The good side, and the good news that I have for every single one Jesus is also called the second Adam, He came as a way, as a truth, and He came as a life.  He took all of the shame, all the drugs, all the pain, all the sins upon Himself, so that we could get the new report card, so that we could get back again into the original intent of Father God.  So that we again have access to how god intended it to be from the book of the beginning where we can experience His love, we can experience His peace, we can experience His presence, hear his voice.  He said, “My sheep hear my voice.”  To be able to experience His pleasure His pleasure that is what God wants. 

SID:  So what happens if someone says “Leif Hetland, you are a no good son of a gun, I don’t like you, I don’t like anything about you.  What do you feel?  Do you feel anger towards that person?  What do you feel?    

LEIF:  No I do not feel anger.  I have heard people say that and I say when you get squeezed, it is like if I had an orange in my hand right now, Sid, and I squeezed it, what is in it is coming out.  And what I have seen again and again, I’ve had people, I’ve had a broken back and neck, and I’ve had people with guns to my head, they want to kill me, because that I represent a God of love, I am an ambassador for Him, so with all these scars on my body, what is in you is coming out.  And that has surprised many different people, again and again, that no matter how they hurt or cuss or try to be able to squeeze me, what is in me is coming out.  And it is love that is the fruit; that is the evidence that what I am talking about is not just a theory, it’s not a theology; it is an experience. 

SID:  Would you ever go back to the way you were? 

LEIF:  Never, never.  I would not change what I have for anything else in the world.  I am a lover; that is my identity.   

SID:  Okay.  How about you?  Is there a love deficit in your life?  Be honest.  Yes.  Do you go sort of like with the waves, one day you’ll feel good with God, the next day you don’t feel good.  How would you like to be steady?  You can’t get any greater security than to experience God’s love.  There is no greater security in this earth.  Leif, would you pray for the people right now. 

LEIF:  I would love to.  Just wanted to mention to all of you who are watching, all you need to do is just to relax, and just to receive.  And I’m going to just pray for you right now.  Father God, First of all I thank you that you are a God of love.  And I thank you that you love every single person that is watching, that is listening.  You loved us so much that You gave Your only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.  You loved every person so much that You were willing to sacrifice the most valuable thing for You, so that every person that is watching could experience intimacy, experiencing love, experiencing peace, in the heart.  I ask right now for every person watching that they are going to be able to experience, no matter what painful things they have had in their life, healing, wholeness, and the love of God, I ask that Jesus Christ will come in and they will get the new report card, no longer being a drug addict, but now being a Jesus addict.  No longer looking at the wrong report card, but listen to the true voice of God, because of the experience that they are feeling right now as the Holy Spirit is moving upon them with love.  Come Holy Spirit and move with the love of God so every person can feel and experience that what we’ve talked about is truth, and the truth will set us free.  In the name of Jesus I pray, Amen. 

SID:  You know, Leif, I can feel such a sweet presence of the Holy Spirit.  Many of you have had fathers that were not present or not present emotionally, and you were not affirmed by your father.  I want to speak on behalf of God right now to you, and tell you what God thinks of you.  When God looks at you, He loves you as much as He loves Jesus.  When God looks at you, assuming you have repented of your sins, turned from them, and asked for His forgiveness, He says you are righteous.  You are as righteous as Jesus.  That means you can come in Father God’s presence, there is nothing separating you.  When He looks at you, remember I told you, I see God taking over where my mother left off.  He beams; I can see my mother right now just beaming, and so proud of her son.  Well I tell you that’s what God is doing for you right now.  He is beaming.  What you are experiencing right now is God’s love.  There is something so special with feeling God’s love.  With recognizing you don’t have to do a thing for God, I didn’t have to do anything for my mother to love me, and even when I did some bad things she still loved me, Leif.  And I tell you that God is pure love.  And you have enemies, but your enemy isn’t God, He is your only friend.  And some of you have been turned off because of religion, and because of religious people.  Well, you can be turned off and bitter your whole life or you can come to the only one worth coming to; the one that believes in you.  Have you ever thought that there is someone that has all power, and He believes in you, and He is for you, and He has a destiny that He has given you? A fingerprint that no human in all of history has ever had; that He says every hair on your head is numbered, and not two sparrows fall to the ground without Him being aware of it, and of how much more value are you than a sparrow, than a bird.  Repent your sins, tell God you are sorry, believe the blood of Jesus washed them away and you are clean.  Then say, “Jesus become real.  Come inside.  I want to know You; I need You as my best friend.    

SID:  Hello, Sid Roth your investigative reporter here with Leif Hetland.  There’s a story that we’re all familiar with, it’s called the prodigal son.  You remember it, the younger brother takes his inheritance, squanders it, and then comes to his senses and comes back home and is accepted by the father.  And the older brother is kind of uncomfortable over it.  But Leif, you told me the Spirit of God gave you a different understanding there. 

LEIF:  Yeah, because I think that most of us in religion would focus on the story as, we call the story; the Bible calls the story, the story of the prodigal son.    

SID:  So you focus on the son. 

LEIF:  We focus on the prodigal son.  We would rather focus on the failure of man, than the faithfulness of God.  The story is not about a prodigal son, it is actually about the loving father, that had two sons, and He gave His inheritance to both of them.  Two sons, one was rebellious, and he had this heart that I used to have, and I think that most children in America and the western world, “give me, give me,” where we value God, we value our parents; we value our system for what it is going to do for us.  And the result was that he squandered this up in a distant land, and he ended up in the pigpen.  And I have been in the pigpen, suicidal, drug addict, and I know how it is to be so far away from God which seems like there is no way back.  But there was a loving father that had never forgotten about his son that was looking for his son.  And then the story is about another brother.  And somehow we have a tendency, we think that is a great story about this drug, addict, this pimp, or this prostitute, or this bad person.  But there is another brother also in this story.  And the thing that amazes me, especially because that is the religious brother, and there is a lot of good religious people, I used to be one of them, good Southern Baptist pastor.  But I also know good, religious Muslims, religious Jews; religious Hindus.  This religious brother he was out on the field doing all these things for God, and somehow he had never experienced the party that God wanted him to have.  God the Father, God, God of love, the Bible says, he was also looking for him and saying, when he came and he complained, “Why don’t I get to experience all of these incredible things.”  He didn’t realize that there was also provision.  That the third son that the story does not talk about he is the one that is telling the story.  His name is Jesus Christ.   He had an invitation for the second son, the religious son, also to come home to a God of love, a father of love, to experiencing love, to experiencing intimacy, to experiencing relationship, to experiencing the food that was on the table.  The Bible talks just a little bit of the fruit that was on the table.  Love, joy, peace, patience; all the things that we all are looking for that is just some of the benefits that is in the Father’s house.  So it is not just for the rebellious, it is also for the religious, that there is an invitation from a loving God to come home, to come into intimacy and to experiencing that God is a God of love that wants to give his inheritance to sons and daughters.  Not orphans, that takes it be demand, and wastes it in a distant land, or in a pigpen, or perhaps just working and striving and stressing, like I used to do for many years for God, but not experiencing the joy and benefits of being a son but acted more like a servant and a slave.    

SID:  What does God think of you, Leif?  What does He think of you? 

LEIF:  He thinks that I am his beloved son, whom he loves, and in whom he is well pleased.  If he looks at me, I do believe and I listen every single morning for just some wonderful words that God has to say to me, because I have to renew my mind every single day so that I hear the first voice.  Because there was another voice also there, that says, “Did God really say?  Did God really love you?  Are you really healed?  Did this really take place when you went to Pakistan?  How do you know that these people really got saved?”  This voice of the serpent; I often call it – it was the first liberal theologian in the Bible.  That serpent comes in and questions and doubts.  So I start my day, not by praying and studying and doing all of these things, I just listen to what my heavenly Father has to say to me.  He says, “You are righteous, you are a co-heir with Christ, what is true of Jesus is now true of you, and I have placed a robe of righteousness upon you so when I look at you, I see Jesus in you and I am well pleased.  So you are welcome home.  You can come to me anytime.  You have access to me, as a God, as a Father, through Jesus Christ.  So when I look at you I see a straight “A”.  You got 100 on the test.  Not based upon what you did, but based upon what Jesus has done for you.”  And that’s where my identity is.  It is on what Jesus has done for me, not what I am doing for Him, but what Jesus has done for me.  And that is something that every single one of us can experience and receive.  You cannot achieve it; only receive it as a gift. 

SID:  You know, I had a wonderful Jewish mother who died, and knows the Messiah and is in heaven right now.  I could do no bad.  She loved me no matter what I did, and I did a lot of bad things.  And what I figure, Leif, is my heavenly Father took over for my mother and He’s doing even a better job, even a better job.  We’ll be right back after this.  And I’m going to have Leif pray for you to experience and feel Father god’s love.  Don’t go away. 

SID:  Hello, Sid Roth, your investigative reporter here with Leif Hetland. Two years ago Leif who walked in the miraculous, who was a pastor, who traveled the world, who was gaining quite a reputation had an encounter with God which revolutionized his life.  He realized he had a deficit in Father Love.  Every one of us has a deficit in Father Love, some more, some less.  But what exactly happened to you two years ago, Leif? 

LEIF:  Well, let me first of al say that I was teaching about God’s love.  I was sharing testimonies about God’s love.  I thought I was motivated out of love. I had all the right theology.  I knew that the Bible was saying god is love and whoever abides in love abides in God.  So I had the right belief system.  But those inches from your head to your heart where suddenly you have an experience is very different.   

SID:  It’s one thing to teach something, it’s another thing to live it. 

LEIF:  Definitely.  And I do believe you teach what you know but you reproduce what you are.  And somehow I didn’t realize I was not a lover.  Many other people would think so because of what I was teaching, because of what they thought they were seeing.  But if you came to my home and talked to my wife and my kids you would see that ministry was my mistress.  Or you would see many other things that often were higher in regard than intimacy and relationship with Father God.  So in the middle of, after trying everything I could to be a good father, a good husband, being a good president of an organization in twenty-two countries, a good businessman, and all these different things on my plate, I felt like a failure.  And I was going down to a conference, actually not a conference, it was a father and son meeting, I thought I was a son, but actually now looking back, I was a servant, I was a slave, to religion, to Christianity, to a system that was created.  But when I came down there I realized actually as somebody was praying for me and they prayed a prayer that says, “I ask you Holy Spirit to come and take away anything in life, in Leif’s life, that is not comfortable with love.  And the next thing I remember I was laying there like a little child and I was taken back to the nine-year-old boy that my father who was a wonderful businessman took away from our home and my security, moved us to another city, and the fear that I felt within me, some of the bitterness, some of the hurt.  Now it was no longer the preacher, the president, there was that nine-year-old boy laying there just weeping, weeping.  And then suddenly God just took His arms around me.  And He started; I could just feel like it was liquid of love that flowed over me.  And there was a wonderful musician that is well known all over America, his name is Dennis Jernigan.  And at Jack Taylor’s little meeting, Dennis Jernigan came over, he laid his hands, and he sang a song that is famous, a Papa song, a

 

Daddy song, how much I was loved.  And it was just like liquid after liquid that just flowed all through my system.  When I came up from this place and I came home, my wife and my children they said, “What has happened to you?”  And for the next couple of months, and I start to feel it again all I could do was to cry, because I realized again and again, how I had violated love.  I had done all of these different things for God.  I had lived for God but not from God and that was very, very different.  So that was an encounter, an experience that changed my life, my walk.  Actually it was about three years ago now that I just celebrated this wonderful experience.  And my wife said, “You had a baptism of Spirit experience, power experience.  You remember, Leif, when signs and wonders and miracles,” but she said, “that baptism of love experience has changed you much more than anything else that I have ever seen in your life.”   

SID:  You know there are outpourings of God’s spirit the last few years around the world and people have run to these meetings.  And they have had genuine encounters with the Holy Spirit but they haven’t changed.  They leave the place and a week later it is like they sprung a leak.  Question:  Have you sprung a leak since this baptism of love? 

LEIF:  Oh definitely, definitely.  And I have continued again and again to sometimes, I’m saying, running to conferences, being prayed for, experiencing again and again that I need more of it.  Yes, I recognize that this orphan spirit that I had beforehand, is coming back again and again.  But the thing that I seeing as time goes along, that it is taking me shorter time now to get back into my Father’s lap, just being a little boy.  And there is a freedom of just being a little boy that just has a big dad.  So when I’m looking at the finances, or I’m looking at my marriage, my wife, children, or I am looking at a world wide ministry, when you have a big Dad, you’ve got small problems; you got big problems, you’ve got a little Dad.  So it takes me a shorter time now to get back into intimacy where I recognize how big, big Dad I have, how wonderful my heavenly Father is, that the God who created the universe, he is my daddy, and He loves me, and He says, “You are my beloved son, Leif and I love you and I am well pleased with you,” without me doing anything.  And out of that intimacy then I can go to the nations.  Or I can go like last week to that American Christian Psychiatrist Association.  Without that, I would go and I would try to perform something.  Now I am just there to represent Him. 

SID:  What results did you have after you spoke to these psychiatrists?    

LEIF:  It was just a very interesting experience, because to be honest with you I am used to speak to large gathering of people where you are getting a lot of emotional response; that has maybe applause.  But these people were maybe more quiet, from a scientific community. They are all medical doctors, they are all scholars.  Some of them were professors in psychiatry at some of our most famous institutions.  But in the end, I was finished speaking at 11:00, and I talked about this Father Hunger as one of the root issues in America; and how we try to treat symptoms when there is a root issue that is underneath. That the government and science themselves call Father Hunger and how Jesus Christ himself came actually with the ultimate cure.  And I actually did an illustration that kind of shocked them.  I gave a little shock treatment.  And one of the things I said was, in psychiatry, or as a medical doctor, or even as a Christian you all got an “F”, I have your report card.  But actually I can tell you there was a psychiatrist, and there was a doctor, and there was also a wonderful Christian, his name is Jesus. He got an straight “A”.  He exchanged the report card with you.  So if you look on the report card and see what is true of Him that is now true of you?  Then you are qualified to be able to look at the patients with different eyes, not seeing the problem, but to see the promise.  And about nine people were just sitting there weeping as we were praying, and even their God was giving words of knowledge into some of these medical doctors life.    

SID:  Leif, hold that thought.  You know it all started with Leif with a question.  Ask God honestly, “God, where am I uncomfortable with love?”  He’ll answer that.  We’ll be back right after this word.  Don’t go away. 

 

SID: Hello, Sid Roth your investigative reporter here with Dr. Larry Bates and we’re painting a picture that we really don’t even have to paint the picture. You read your own newspapers and you see what’s going on in the world, you see fear all over, you see the real estate just keeps going up, up, up, and there’s an old adage what goes up must come down. People have some money; they don’t even know what to do with it right now. Larry, why is it that certain people are trying to corner the silver market?

LARRY: Well, some of these certain people, we might as well call them by name, Warren Buffet, of the Bircher/Hathaway Group, it’s been estimated that he has cornered about 40 percent of the world silver market. He makes the Hunt Brothers look like pikers compared to what he has. Uh, it’s interesting, Warren Buffet is a very savvy investor, he understands how the system works, how the market works. He was the same guy the Wall Street crowd made fun of back in the dot.com boom because he wasn’t getting in the high-risk speculative bubble. They were ridiculing his eleven percent return and of course I liken the current housing bubble to the dot.com bubble, and you had IPO, initial public offerings, you had companies that were creating their own currency, just like the mortgage industry is creating its own currency. It’s like the guy comes home one day and says to his wife, “Hey I sold the dog for a hundred thousand dollars.” And she said, “You sold that dog for a hundred thousand dollars?” He said, “Well sort of, I got two fifty thousand cats for it.” Now, that’s fine as long as people use dogs and cats as money. Or if they use stocks and IPO’s as money, or if they use real estate mortgages bundled as money. But when people determine that this is not really currency, it’s not really liquid, then a lot of the stuff hits the market and you have a downward spiral in these markets, and that’s the fear that I have for this economy. But if you’re prepared for it you won’t be scathed by it.

SID: Okay, give me briefly recommendations for us to be prepared for this. What Godly wisdom or counsel do you give us?

LARRY: First of all, reduce debt. Try to get out of debt. If you’re not out of debt, you still have a debt, have a good reserve.

SID: You know the pull of the world, the pull of television is keep up with the Jones, must be in debt. Have a nice, beautiful house because all of your children’s friends have nice, beautiful houses. Even if you can’t afford it, it doesn’t matter, don’t worry, we’re in America.

LARRY: Well, that’s part of the American arrogance, it can’t happen to us. But wisdom dictates that we understand the times that we’re living in and it cannot keep going on forever.

SID: Now, let’s take you. Do you own a house?

LARRY: Yes.

SID: All right, Is the house worth a great deal more than what you paid for it?

LARRY: Quite a bit. I’m getting ready to sell it.

SID: So what are you going to do, buy another house?

LARRY: No, I’m going to build out on the farm.

SID: Okay, because you want to live in it?

LARRY: I want to live in it – but – I’m picking the time to sell it when all of the frenzy of the real estate market is going up.

SID: Well, speculate, and that’s all you can do, but your godly speculation is when will the bubble burst?

LARRY: Here is the key things, beginning to the middle of 2006, we have a lot of these mortgages that are interest rate only mortgages, a lot of them are adjustable rate mortgages and the adjustment period begins in that time frame. From the beginning to the end of 2006, and at the latest 2007, you are going to have a lot of people that their payments will ratchet up if they cannot make the payments, if they are so stretched, which I believe they are, then you’ll have a lot of people that default, go in bankruptcy. We’re already seeing a rise in bankruptcies. Its pockets of weakness already – Jefferson County, Colorado, right outside of Denver, 39 percent increase in bankruptcies and foreclosures.

SID: Okay. Someone has, they are relatively debt-free, they do have a mortgage, they have $20,000 they want to invest, they don’t want to, I mean we’re in a period where most people feel interest rates will keep increasing, inflation is going to run rampant, we don’t want to just put it in a small interest rate in the bank. What would you advise?

LARRY: Remember this: cash at the crash will be king. And that’s cash in your money markets, CD’s and cash in your precious medals. I believe people ought to have at least 30 percent of their total assets in gold and silver coins.

SID: Why?

LARRY: It’s the only monetary asset that is not someone else’s liability. Gold and silver is money, anything else is credit. It’s the money of the Bible. You go back to Amos, chapter eight it talks about they made the shekel or dollar larger, and the epal or bushel smaller, where it bought less grain and cheated with dishonest scales.

SID: By the way, why coins versus bonds?

LARRY: Well they are more liquid, they are easy to identify, they are minted by respected government, and certified as to weight in purity and so it’s a lot less questions about what do you really have when you have coins.

SID: But we’re living in a time of the Bible that you were alluding to of unequal weights and measure.

LARRY: Yes.

SID: So what does an honest person do?
LARRY: Well, you deal in honest money. Gold and silver, it’s money of the Bible. Why is it the money of the Bible? It’s scarce.

SID: Now what’s going on with the whole health insurance thing in the United States? My rates go up every year. I mean not just inflationary, gigantic.

LARRY: Two things.
SID: The average person isn’t even going to be able to have health insurance.

LARRY: My oldest son’s father-in-law is the former president, retired president of the Methodist Hospital Systems in Tennessee. 1964 his per patient cost per day was $9.49 a day. In 1966 two years later, it went to $69.96 a day. Now what happened in those two years? We passed Medicare. It was the government funds with the pertinent regulations, all of the government regulations that caused the rise in the cost of health care. Didn’t improve the quality, that’s why we’re going to have another thing, a lot of the churches are going to have to get into health care.

SID: Guess what? If you really want to analyze things you can get yourself sick. But I have some good news for you, the Bible does talk there’s going to be a wealth transfer, the Bible does say, God says, “I’ve never seen the righteous begging for food.” I believe that there is only one surefire investment and it’s something no one can ever take away from you and that is intimacy with God. Do not mishear what I’m saying, I am not saying religion, I am not saying tradition, I am saying that if you do not have intimacy with God you have nothing. And if you’ve got gold stars for synagogue and mosque and church attendance that counts for – that won’t even get you a cup of coffee. Listen to me, you can know God, but the only way you can know a holy God is if someone who is perfect dies in your place. That someone is the one Moses said would be greater than him, that would be a Jew, that would have all of the word of God inside of him, we must follow him. How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? Pray to God, repent to God. Say “God I’m a sinner.” Yes you are. “I believe Jesus died for my sins and by His wounds I am healed. And now that I am clean I want to know you God. Jesus, I want you to live inside of me, I want you to become real to me, I want to hear your voice, I want to be able to walk in shalom, in peace. I make you my Lord Jesus. Amen.” That’s how to be free.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth your investigative reporter here with Dr. Larry Bates and we’re saying that Larry is not a doom and gloom man. Just because we’ve been talking about, it’s not about if there will be terrorism in the United States, everyone recognizes the question is, when there will be terrorism. It’s not if there will be natural disasters, everyone recognizes it is a question of when there will be natural disasters. It’s not if the housing market explodes and goes south, it’s not if, it’s when this is going to happen. But Larry, you’re very optimistic, however, there’s another thing I’ve been reading about and that is some of these foreign countries are literally buying up major companies, major – buying ports for shipping, buying oil companies, they’re trying to buy the assets of America. Is this good? Give me an example of what’s going on.

LARRY: All right, for example what we have is, where did their money come from? They have been financing our trade deficit. We’ve been buying their cheap goods, importing their cheap goods, we’ve been giving them our Federal Reserve notes which we call cash. They are holding this cash and now they have decided, “Hey we have quite enough cash. So what do we do with it?” They want to come back and buy the real assets of America. For an example we saw the Chinese owned oil company, Chinese government owned oil company, trying to buy Unical, in the United States Unical board rebuffed them, went, leaning toward the Chevron offer, I think you are going to see the Chinese up the ante. Trying to buy Maytag for an example, Whirlpool has come in to try to counter that offer but –

SID: Okay look, they have the cash; let’s face it, because everything operates just about by greed, anyone’s going to be willing to sell at the right price. Let’s assume that these countries are successful in buying some of our best assets in America. What is wrong with that?

LARRY: Well would you want to sell one of our strategic, when we are so dependent upon energy in this country, would you want to sell one of our largest oil companies to a state owned, government owned oil company to a government whose head of their war college said the other day said, “We may nuke the United States if they interfere with -” You know it makes no sense for our national sovereignty or our national security. But see this is where you find yourself in, is, you find yourself in a condition where you have borrowed money, and as the Bible says the borrower is servant to the lender, and here’s the fine fix we find ourselves in.

SID: Well, why is it, and help me understand this, why is it this Johnny come lately, if you will, Euro, actually exceeds the value of the US dollar, there were times I could go on vacation with the US dollar and live like a king because it bought more than the Euro. Now it’s reversed, how come?

LARRY: Well, people are looking for economic stability and for a period of time it was perceived that Europe was more stable economically and people were moving from the dollar to the Euro. Now had it not been for the Socialist led governments of Europe, they’ve messed their own economies up, and we’ve gotten a bit of reprieve, probably not for long, but we have a reprieve, and we have all currencies of the world are in crisis.
Since 1971 when we repudiated the Gretenwoods agreement, we went off of honest money, we, every economic crisis, 181 of them Sid, 181 economic crisis have all been currency crisis. To give you an example, the Asian economic crisis in the mid-nineties, to give you an example of what does this mean for the average person, we saw in the country Indonesia, their currency called the repia, went from 2000 repia to the dollar, to 16000 repia to the dollar.

SID: That’s quite an inflation.

LARRY: Now, one of my clients in Indonesia was a family- owned company, employed about 3000 people, a manufacturing concern. The only problem they had was they had loans payable to Citibank in New York, and payable in dollars, and their currency, their goods were being sold domestically, in repia. They could not make their loan payments, they defaulted. And I talked with them about a year later, Citibank had sent a new partner to them. I asked them, “Are you still in business?” Yes. Factory still operating? Yes. Three thousand employees? Yes. Raw materials coming in, finished product going out? Yes. What’s changed? Ownership.” He said, “We now only have a 20 percent stake in a fifty year old family company.” See wealth is not destroyed it is simply transferred, and money is the transfer agent, so this is why we have to understand money, the function of money, who controls it, what drives it, how debt is involved, it is so important that people understand the times.

SID: So what does the average person do that’s got a little money in the bank, a little money in mutual funds, a pension program, this super inflation on their house and they say “Well my major asset is my house.” But let’s suppose that some of these things like natural disasters occur, like terrorism occur; like all of a sudden the price of real estate worth twenty cents on the dollar, is there a way for the average person to be involved in this wealth transfer. Dr. Larry Bates says yes. When we come back we’ll tell you specific strategy; supernatural strategy. Don’t go away.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth, your investigative reporter here with Dr. Larry Bates. Outrageous to believe the greatest country in the world, the United States of America, is heading rapidly to becoming what is known as a third world country. Sound outrageous to you, maybe not, my guest Dr. Larry Bates as been a state legislator, a CEO of a bank, he has been studying banking, finance, money for many years. Larry, are you a doom and gloom type of individual? I mean the US is headed to becoming a third world country?

LARRY: No, I’m excited about the future Sid.

SID: You’re excited that we’re going to become?… I’ve been to third world countries, Larry, I’m not so excited.

LARRY: Well, I’m excited for those who understand the times and have the discernment of what to do because you know the Bible tells us in the last days the wealth of the wicked is going to be transferred to the righteous. The good news is this, in periods of economic crisis, or even in economic collapse, wealth is not destroyed, it is simply transferred, and money is the transfer agent.

SID: And as I understand the scriptures, especially coming from a Jewish background; the Tanach. it’s when Israel did right, they were blessed in every possible arena of life.

LARRY: That’s right.

SID: And so, under the new covenant how much more will those that are walking in intimacy with God – But before we get to the wealth transfer, because you see this wealth transfer is where you put your money, and I’ll tell you something, that’s a pretty tough question. What about real estate? I pick up the newspaper; I hear trailers in Hawaii are going for close to a million dollars. I mean this is craziness Larry, what is going on in real estate?

LARRY: Well what is happening is you have is a lot of money that is chasing a limited amount of houses, and you have low interest rates. People are buying more house than they ordinarily could afford. And the good news is this, none of what is happening today has caught God by surprise, He’s not having an anxiety attack over what’s going on planet earth. And if we want to understand the times, we have to press into His wisdom. It is supernaturally discerned. You see, the natural mind out there listening and viewing right now doesn’t understand what we’re talking about. It is spiritually discerned, First Corinthians 2.

SID: Now because of your background in economics, banking, and money, let me ask you, why do you feel, and most people do feel this way, that the real estate market, especially houses, it’s a big bubble that is going to burst at some point, most people recognize that, they’re just greedy and they’re saying, “Well, tomorrow – I want it to keep going up, ten, twenty percent a year.” Uh why, you said something about money is easy to come by, explain that.

LARRY: It really is. The good news about real estate is that a third of all homes in America are paid for. No mortgage.

SID: Now that’s an interesting statistic. If you had said, ‘Sid, guess how many are paid for with no mortgage,” no way would I have come up with that high a percentage.

LARRY: But the two-thirds that have a mortgage, they are in pretty bad shape. We have a lot of banks that are just pushing money out the door, people are no down payment, even their closing cost are being paid for, we have a lot of this exotic financing, creative financing, reverse mortgages, interest only mortgages –

SID: What’s a reverse mortgage, I’ve heard about that?

LARRY: Reverse mortgage is where you have a level payment, even though interest rates go up on an adjustable rate mortgage, you have a level payment and then you are adding to the balance of your mortgage all the time as interest rates go up, you have a balloon.

SID: And well, the balloon means that at some point you are going to pay the price and what happens if someone’s salary is going up, you know, cost of living, but all of a sudden you bump into that balloon payment, then there’s no way you’re going to come up with that money.

LARRY: that’s exactly right, remember this, the only difference between those in the ghetto and those in the suburb is their line of credit and their ability to service that line of credit.

SID: Speaking of credit, it’s not only with houses, the United States of America owes a great deal of money, it’s at historic highs, what is this?

LARRY: What we are doing, our total domestic debt is plus or minus seventeen trillion dollars, that includes the federal government debt, state and county municipal debt, corporal debt, mortgage debt and consumer debt all put in one big pile. Now here’s the problem, we have a debt-based economy, we have a debt based monetary system, and we have a lot of people in my profession of economics that say well you know the United
States ability to borrow is unlimited by definition, but let me tell you this, as a former banker, I can tell you this, that a person’s capacity to borrow is predicated upon their creditors confidence in their ability to repay. And our trade deficit, we have twin deficits, we have the budget deficit, we have a trade deficit. Our trade deficit Sid, is consuming 2.4 to 2.5 billion every working day. Now to put that in perspective, that is 80 percent – eight zero, eighty percent of the entire world savings. My question is, “Is that sustainable?” I don’t think so.

SID: Well, but as long as we’re a great country and there is something behind our white paper and green ink, but you say no, there isn’t.

LARRY: Well, the only thing behind our white paper and green ink is over inflated value of assets. And when you have over inflated value of assets and you cut off the money supply, and Sid, one of these times in order to keep the dollar from collapsing, the Federal Reserve will raise interest rates even more drastically and a lot of people, you see capital is always looking for a home, and it looks for two things, either political stability or economic stability. We have this other mix of terrorism, natural disasters, all of these could be catalysts that would precipitate a decline of the dollar –

SID: What would happen if some of the people that lend us money all of a sudden said we’re not lending you money anymore, would that hurt us?

LARRY: Well, by the same token, let’s say you have a company out here, their banker pulls their line of credit, what happens? They go under. We will go under –

SID: But we can keep printing up money.

LARRY: Well we can print up money, but we then get in the situation of hyperinflation.

SID: You know this does not sound really good to me, I don’t know about you. But, Larry says he’s not doom and gloom, He’s only doom and gloom for those that do not have wisdom. We’re going to be talking when we come right back about not natural wisdom because natural wisdom can’t solve what’s going to happen to the housing market, can’t solve the fact that most Americans are a paycheck away from filing bankruptcy, can’t solve the problem of hyperinflation, can’t solve the problem of terrorism, can’t solve the problem of what the world calls natural disasters. But there are answers, and it’s not bad, it’s good. Don’t go away we’ll be right back after this word.

SID: Outrageous. My guest in the car ride here to the studio brought up something, I mean this is the world’s foremost expert in cults, in deliverance, in the occult, his name is Bob Larson, you have probably seen him on television, and I can understand him going after something like Harry Potter, I mean that’s a no brainer, but the Chronicles of Narnia? I mean good versus evil, I mean actually the gospel in an allegorical form with this lion, and getting, I mean Hollywood has been so corrupt for so many years and now we are finally getting something talking about good things and feel good movies and, so Bob Larson, why do you say that it’s not a godly movie?

BOB: You’ve got a good argument, you’re almost convincing me. SID: Good, well we’ll go to another subject.

BOB: Everything you say is true. And allegorically although Lewis warned don’t read too much into it. You know, C.S. Lewis said, “At times it was the gospel, and at times it wasn’t the gospel.” Nobody knows what he really meant and really intended but the problem that I have is that it crosses over a line in that you have a number of characters and beings in there, intaurs, centaurs, incubi spirits, and many of these beings are actually on the side of good and the worst of which is Mr. Tunis this fawn sater, who is half goat, half human, he is the good guy on the good side, this is the classical, historic, in Satanism representation of Lucifer.

SID: So you mean someone that is in Satanism would go to that movie and get even more excited than a Christian?

BOB: Well they would at least identify with that character and get a little bit of a chuckle that the theater is filled with Christians who are there thinking it is an allegorical presentation of the gospel when you’ve got the personification of Lucifer on the screen hopping around in cloven hooves, I mean there is some confusion here and you can’t just send kids who are Christians to that movie without an antiquate explanation.

SID: Okay, here’s what I hear you say Bob, what I hear you saying that it is pushing Christianity a little further away from Biblical Godly positions so that perhaps the next one might push them over the edge.

BOB: It is a very dangerous thing to eclectically mix the gospel and any sort of Christian truths with things that are outright demonic. Now I can’t read C.S. Lewis’s mind, I don’t know what he was thinking at the time. He was an Oxford scholar; he studied the classic literature modes, and maybe to him it was something that was archetypal.
It was philosophical, but in a world in which sorcery and witchcraft and the occult are so prevalent, and seducing so many of our young people today, I think it’s a dangerous step over the mark, and any Christian parent who is going to say their kid should go see this movie they had better be aware of what they are seeing.

SID: Okay, Bob Larson was recently in New Zealand and was conducting a meeting and there was a man by the name of Shane who literally was abused by his father at knifepoint as a child, horrible situation, I want you to see what happens when Bob actually picks him out in the audience and begins to move with the power of God. Let’s go to that clip.

What’s your first name sir? Shane, Huh? Shane, are you with him? What’s your relationship? Engaged, Engaged? I saw in the spirit a separation from the angry parts, you’re angry Shane. Tonight I came here expecting something to happen to be more freer. What happened? Who do you hate and why? My father. What did your father do? He raped me and handed me off to a friend. He raped you and what? Handed you off to a friend? What did you say? He put a knife to your throat. He put a knife to your throat and raped you, your own father. No wonder you want to kill him, I’d want to kill him too; he deserves to die. I just felt so much rage, just so much hate, so much anger, resentment, retaliation, Look at me. You’re a good man Shane. Your father did a bad thing. He did it because somebody did it to him and the curse that goes way back. Something that evil could only be the result of a long embedded curse. You are here tonight because God is going to set you free if you let Him right now. I’m going to take you through a couple of processes. Look at me. I take the sword of the spirit and I divide soul and spirit and I divide shame of man from the shame of the boy. I want the little boy who was raped, I want you look at me. Don’t be ashamed to look at me, your daddy is a mean daddy, he is a very bad daddy and he is doing something very bad and you don’t like it do you? It hurts and you hate what he’s doing, and he hates what he is doing to you, don’t you? Don’t you? He’s bad, isn’t he? A lot of that is just to do with the anger that was built up in, and I guess I was, was just like a ticking time bomb man ready to explode. It’s okay; it’s okay. I’m sorry for what daddy did. We need to get rid of this thing, now here’s what you have, you gotta do now; you gotta fight. I know the hurt is there, I know the tendency is to slip back into this depressed, defeated, anguished state, but now you are a soldier to fight, you left an ax in the car, so I’m going to give you a sword instead. And that’s what we are going to fight with. We are going to fight with that sword. Who are you, your name; your name spirit? Your name spirit, who are you? Answer me, Jezebel. How many generations do you go back Jezebel? Plenty. How many generations, how many? Don’t touch him stand back please. Twelve. How many? Twelve. And what happened twelve generations ago? Answer me Jezebel, what happened twelve generations ago? Rape and murder. Rape and murder. I loose the dogs of Jezeel on you Jezebel and I bind you to murder and perversion of all of your kind. The curse is broken Jezebel. Get out of this one. Get out The curse is broken. Renounce every right to this child of God. Say this child of God, admit he’s a child of God. Say this child of God: Jezebel. Say this child of God child of God, say it. Say we lift the curse on him and future generations Say for what we did we receive seven times greater the judgment of Almighty God. Receive it, receive it Jezebel; receive it! Receive the judgment of God.
For every child that was molested, for every one that was murdered receive the judgment. Give it to him now. There is a reason I’m provoking this thing and making it do this, get out fully Jezebel, out fully. Now you are getting weaker. Now say where are you going to go? Say the pit. Come out of him, come out. The sign of the cross: in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We pray for you to be full of the Holy Spirit, enter in place of what was there with the presence of the Almighty God. Be filled with the Holy Spirit. We receive it. We receive it in Jesus name. Everybody said amen. Shane, now I want a real hug. Tonight has been great. God is really real, He set me free. I just feel unbelievably freer and am looking forward to what He’s got in store for me in the future.

SID: Bob, that was a pretty powerful man, and I actually saw him trying to swing at you, aren’t you a little afraid when you are involved in deliverance like that?

BOB: No, no I’m not. I’ve done more exorcisms than anybody on the planet and I’m still very much alive and well, I’ve had my ribs broken, I’ve been scratched, gouged, bloodied, but I am doing fine thank you.

SID: Question, what was he like, I saw the video, what was he like afterwards, what did he say?

BOB: It was really amazing, in fact one of the most interesting things we found out when this whole thing was over with; he said I need to take you to my car. So he took us to his car and pulled out an ax. He said I had this ax, I was on my way to murder somebody, I couldn’t take it anymore; I was going to kill. And he said I don’t need this anymore, take the ax. So I took the ax and I handed it to one of the pastors that was there. This was a Christian man; this was a man struggling to love God but so eaten up with rage inside for this horrible thing that his father did to him. And in coming back to what we said a little earlier, let me just point out something, when you deal with the devil like I do, when you are constantly having these power encounters with the forces of darkness, that’s why you take everything much more seriously than the average Christian would.

SID: All right, let me ask you this, Howard Stern, well maybe the Howard Stern of Australia, what do you think would happen if Bob Larson has a one on one encounter with the Howard Stern of Australia? Don’t go away, we’ll be right back after this word.

SID: Bob I don’t get it. I just saw this deliverance you did, now you go to a man that is one of the most filthy foulmouthed people, the Howard Stern of Australia if you will, you are sitting next to him just like me, you’re a real glutton, why did you do this?

BOB: Why not do it? I mean why not step right into – why not be Daniel going into the den?

SID: Let’s go to that clip right now.

Woman: We are here in the studio, Carl is currently getting perked because he is having an exorcism in just a moment; we have Bob Larson here who is the exorcist.
Bob: His parents who should have protected him, loved him and affirmed him did not, and then they handed him over to the devil. Then when he was fourteen, he sealed the deal.
Woman: Do you believe that Carl?
Carl: Yeah I do actually. Have you ever seen anything? You’ve known me for years, have you seen anything?
Woman: I’ve seen two sides to Carl, I see a really beautiful person and
Bob: Absolutely
Woman: The nicest person you could ever know and again I will see what I think is the devil.
Carl: What do you see?
Woman: I see evilness.
Carl: Bearing in mind we are on the radio, and all you can do is hear, when I look at Bob I can’t actually speak.
Woman: From what is that a sign of Bob?
Carl: All I can feel is shaking inside.
Woman: It’s stirring it up.
Bob: Yeah, it’s stirring it up, it doesn’t want to show up. Last thing in the world it wants to do is show up right here on the radio station right now.

SID: Bob, I mean, you got, we Jewish people have a word, it’s called “chutzpa” it means nerve!

BOB: I think I got it!

SID: So what happened after this deliverance on national, I assume it was on national radio?

BOB: Oh, national radio, the whole country heard it. You know this guy is known for this, you know chewing people and spitting them out. I walked in there he was like a puppy dog, he was scared, he was actually frightened.

SID: I saw.

BOB: It wasn’t me, it was the power of God proceeding me, and I just confronted him about his issues, his life, his demons and everything. And I started praying over him and he froze and couldn’t speak. Just literally could not speak. God just froze him on the spot, shut his mouth, and he literally could not say a word.
And afterwards I shared Christ with him off the air, as I was leaving the studio another guy walked up who was one of the people involved as a producer and he said I’ve been witnessing to this guy, I’ve been sharing Christ with him. So it was a God encounter, what it shows me when you are unembarrassed by the power of God and you walk in the middle of where the devil is, God honors it.

SID: Listen, we both know Australia is a very, very ungodly country. This is the most foulmouthed person in Australia. What repercussion did it have on the nation?

BOB: Well everywhere we went, all of our seminars were packed, it opened up all the media, I was in every major radio and television show in the country, secular, because they heard about this and they knew this. You can drive in any city in Australia and there are huge billboards of this guy, he is a household name.

SID: Okay, let’s come back to the United States here for a minute, known as a “quote” Christian country, what is happening here? There is a proliferation of cults, occult groups, pseudo-Christian groups, what’s going on?

BOB: We’re in a post-Biblical age, there is no moral consensus anymore about what the spiritual foundations of this country are all about, you see if from the Supreme Court to everyday decisions in our public schools, and as a result of that the devil has free reign to basically do what he wants to do with only the restraint of the salt of the earth of God’s people left.

SID: What’s happening with, let’s take as an example, Islam in the United States?

BOB: What’s interesting to me is that after 911, sales of the Koran went up. There is now more accommodation of Islam than ever before, and it’s ironic that you are I are paying tax-payers dollars to make sure that the people who want to kill us have a prayer map and an arrow pointing where to bow. This is nuts, this is nuts!

SID: Now listen, a lot of people understand about Islam, but do you understand the roots of Mormonism? Do you understand the roots of Masons? I tell you something, very few people understand this. I’m so glad that Bob Larson wrote this book, we’ll be talking about it. It’s called “Larson’s Book of World Religions and Alternative Spirituality.” We do have the goods now, be right back after this word.

SID: Now listen; Presidents of the United States, the most powerful people in the world are Masons. I know that they are strong Christians. I don’t get it Bob Larson. What is wrong with being a Mason? That’s just a fraternal order.

BOB: Well that’s what most people would like to think, but I would challenge any Mason who happens to be watching us right now to step forward and tell us the oaths and the vows that he has taken and spoken behind the closed doors of the lodge and they will not do it because they speak the most bloodthirsty of curses upon them and anyone else who ever reveals what they teach in the lodge, they speak death, suicide and murder in the lodge. Now it may be symbolic as they argue, but the fact is there is no such thing as symbolically calling death down on your own head, that’s a dangerous thing to do.

SID: You mean if they divulge something,

BOB: I mean if they divulge that, they vow themselves you know to have their tongue ripped out, guts disembowel, horrible things.

SID: Who’s the spiritual head of Masons?

BOB: Lucifer, ultimately Lucifer.

SID: And is that your opinion?

BOB: The worshipful master, look, most of the founding fathers of Freemasonry were Luciferiers. Albert Pike is the most revered Freemason in America, and founder of the American tradition, he was an avowed Luciferiers, I have his books, I have read them; he says Lucifer is God.

SID: Yes but then so how could a real Christian be involved in that if they know the head is Luciferian.

BOB: They don’t know; they don’t know that.

SID: Well if they don’t know it, how can it hurt them?

BOB: It doesn’t make any difference, because it’s what’s behind it, it is the spirit and the power and the force that’s behind it that you’re

SID: Have you ever prayed; have you ever with someone for deliverance because of being involved in Masons?

BOB: Ah, so many hundreds I can’t begin to recount to you, and I always know who to go for, I know to go for the spirit of Lucifer, and the spirit of Lucifer is in everyone who has entered beyond the apprenticeship, entered apprenticeship degree because they vow allegiance to Lucifer. Now in different parts of the country you will have more Christianized lodges, but most of them are very vague about who God is, you will have the Koran, you will have the Bible, you will have whatever sacred books they want to have.

SID: Okay, what is the connection between Masons and Mormons, I have never heard that the two are connected.

BOB: Oh absolutely, Joseph Smith Jr. of course who founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints took all of the secret ceremonies that are done in the temple, in Mormonism, straight out of Freemasonry, it’s the reason the Freemasons hate the Mormons and the Mormons hate the Freemasons because they are a copycat.

SID: Let’s switch gears, but before we do, I am so impressed with this book of World Religions and cults and occult groups. I assume you had a whole team of specialists do the work because you are so busy.

BOB: I do it myself, I do it myself.

SID: Why do you do it yourself?

BOB: Because I have such a fascination, an historical interest in this, it’s been my life, I’ve lived it, I mean it’s crosschecked and referenced by a team of people, but as far as the writing it’s myself, it’s a product of what I have observed in more than three decades of ministry, watching this stuff.

SID: Now I was involved over thirty years ago before I became a believer in the Messiah in something called Silva Mind Control,

BOB: It’s in the book.

SID: I know but, and you know what’s so wonderful about this? He not only has what it is, what its roots are, what it tries to prove, but how to help someone get out of it, how to under – listen first thing is understanding. How many different cults in and occult groups do you have?

BOB: Hundreds, literally hundreds categorized.

SID: So, there are a lot of books on this subject, why did you do this?

BOB: I did this because people needed a quick encyclopedic capsuled summary so that in just a matter of seconds, they can go to the alphabetical index, a friend, a loved one brings up a term they’ve never heard before, what’s that, is that good or bad, they flip, they find it and thirty seconds they got an answer.

SID: Listen, I went to a health food store and a conversation is going on with the owner and someone else, and the owner says, I finally found the ultimate; a course in miracles. This is a strong Christian, and this is the most wonderful thing, it answers all of my questions, uh, uh, what?

BOB: It’s in the book.

SID: I know.

BOB: A course in miracles was received by automatic handwriting through demonic dictation through something called the voice, and it’s got Jesus in there, but it denies all the cardinal tenants of the Christian faith, and in fact seeks to supplant the Christian faith, it was received from the spirit world by a demon, the whole thing.

SID: there seems to be so many new age courses, are you finding there is an increase in the number of Christians that need deliverance?

BOB: It’s just, it’s so explosive that I, and we’ve got a hundred deliverance teams all over America, we can’t keep up with it, the case load, we are backlogged for weeks in all of our teams because of the numbers of Christians who have gotten involved in stuff they didn’t know was bad, or they picked up garbage.

SID: I mean you have even discussed Star Wars has got evil roots, just thirty seconds what’s wrong with it?

BOB: Well the evil roots are it goes back to Zen Buddhism, George Lucas is a Buddhist.

SID: Yes, but that doesn’t make the movie a Buddhist.

BOB: But he has stated publicly that the whole frame of reference of the worldview and characters is based on Buddhism and he has said things like he deliberately concocted Yoda to be a mouthpiece for Zen.

SID: Well you know one of the reasons that I’m interested that I’m so interested in you Bob Larson and what you have to speak, and especially this book. I wish I had had this. A traditional Jewish man, I got involved in something called Silva Mind Control. It was taught by good people, trying to accomplish good things. I found out the most deceived people were those that were teaching, and one day a Christian had enough “chutzpa” enough nerve to say “Sid turn to your own Torah, your own Jewish scriptures, in Deuteronomy, the eighteenth chapter, God calls it an abomination to communicate with the dead, séances, being involved in the various occult and new age types of courses.” Now I didn’t even believe the Bible was real at that point; I believed it was just good stories, but just on the one percent chance that it was real. I said I will go in a neutral gear and I’ll just read the Bible. I mean after all I’m Jewish, and I got the shock of my life! This new age spirit guide that they had instructed that I invite into myself started cursing me when I read the Bible and I knew it was true. Well listen, I didn’t know what to do, but fortunately my Christian friend said there was a greater power than the power that was destroying me, I literally did not care whether I lived or died, and I prayed a two word prayer, but the important thing is I got the name right and my heart was right. I said,
“Jesus, help.” That’s all I said and I gave up and I can tell you that when I woke up the next morning I was just encased with the most love I had ever experienced in my entire life. I tell you that if you could taste this love there is nothing anyone, anything offers to compare, and the love is the love of God, but there is no other name in which we must experience God’s rule but the name of Jesus. Hebrew, Yeshua, the King of the Jews.

Sid Roth has found the key to worldwide revival. This is God’s time to reach the Jewish people with God’s love. Messiah Jesus has torn down the wall dividing Jew and Gentile, the two together form one new man to reach the world. God’s method to reach the Jewish people is through signs and wonders, this is why our website, Sidroth.org is jammed packed with tools to equip you to move in signs and wonders, understand Israel and the Jewish roots of the church. Log on to:

SID: My guest sees a series of snapshots over people and then he knows things about them. He knows their past, their present, their future, even what they said in their bedroom the night before. He’s so specific that he’s often accused of collaborating with others to get this supernatural information.

Can ancient secrets of the supernatural be rediscovered? Do angels exist? Is there life after death? Are healing miracles real? Can you get supernatural help from another dimension? Has the future been written in advance? Sid Roth has spent 30 years researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid on this edition of It’s Supernatural.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest is Denny Cramer. And Denny, you know this. I am so intrigued with the gift that God has given you. He has prophesied over thousands of people for, what, some 33 years, and I had him prophesy over my staff last night and it’s, I don’t know, you’ve been doing it for so long. But I’m in awe of such a supernatural gift and the way it helps people. For instance, I have got a letter here from someone that he prophesied over. Let me just read a little bit of this. “You visited our congregation. I listened as you prophesied over many people I knew. It was amazing to me how accurate you were in speaking to their current circumstances and declaring over them their God-given potential, having never met them.” As a matter of fact, a lot of pastors are probably accused of telling you information because you’re so precise and so accurate. I imagine there are people that you probably couldn’t convince in a million years that you were tipped off by the pastor.

DENNY: Not in a million years.

SID: Let me keep reading this. “At the time of your visit I was in therapy at least twice a week due to post-traumatic stress disorder. I had been struggling with thoughts of suicide and depression, as well as a number of physical issues that were unresolved. The night before the service I woke up, yet again, at 3:15 a.m. and saw what I believe to be a big black bird that I knew must have been an evil spirit. The next day God spoke this to me through you.” This is so awesome. Listen to this. “You’ve also been tormented at night. A spirit comes into your bedroom around 3:00 in the morning, 3:15 in the morning and it begins to attack you with nightmares and health issues, pressure, stress and strain that lasts all day. And the last nine and a half months you’ve been saying, ‘I’m under attack.’ And no matter what you do you can’t get free. But the Lord says the breaker is here this morning. I am that breaker, Jesus, Jesus the Messiah, the Lord, and I snapped the neck of that spirit on assignment against you, and you will see a return of your physical health. Now every organ and every system will work as it was designed to work and you will sleep like a baby.” Then this person reports, “I have not been woken up at that time since. My health is back completely and I’ve not struggled with nightmares or stress.”

DENNY: Amazing.

SID: This has got to be, it’s amazing. It’s got to be so rewarding for you. Do you realize what it’s like for someone that is tormented night after night? You knew the exact time that the torment was going on. Does this happen often, people are sick, that you kind of, you know by your prophesy what the cause is and then you go after it?

DENNY: Absolutely. I go after it very aggressively. I know by the spirit of God whether it is just natural or whether there might even be a spiritual reason behind it, and I see it. I actually see these things on them, around them, in them. I know whether they came from their past. I know whether it’s just a present situation. I discern the spirit behind these situations. And in the case of this young married couple, they could not conceive. She was unable to have a child.

SID: I mean you took care of everything.

DENNY: I read her mail. I mean, the Holy Spirit went right down the line. I call prophesy, Sid, both diagnostic and prescriptive, in that God uses prophesy to diagnose problems and then He uses prophesy to prescribe the solution. So this couple was confirmed in their ministry as youth leaders. I didn’t know who they were, but God said, “Youth ministry, youth ministry, youth ministry.” I then saw the spirit coming into their bedroom around 3:15 in the morning, which was exactly when she would wake up with nightmares and fear, and dread, and cold sweats. I prophesied her body was being healed. They could not conceive and have a child. So she was being treated for all these things. But the Lord used prophecy diagnostically to diagnose their problems. Then He used prophesy to prescribe the solution. They were healed. They were delivered and the biggest miracle of all is that nine months later, in spite of what the doctor said, they had their baby.

SID: I love it. And as a matter of fact he prophesies what happens to countries. For instance, you prophesied the Afghan war. You prophesied the Indonesian earthquake. You prophesied the terrorist bombing in England. But I think you really get a lot of satisfaction prophesying things that help and encourage, and edify people. But I want to find out about how this gift started operating in you. You became a believer because you went to a Jesus freak meeting. Why did you go to a Jesus freak meeting?

DENNY: I moved in next door to some Jesus people. Didn’t know what they were, other than I had seen them on TV a little. And they gave me a Jesus paper, and the Jesus paper said the Jesus people are meeting Thursday night at such and such a location. I had an Irish Roman Catholic background. We went to church, went to Mass Sunday morning. That was it. But these Protestants, these Jesus people were having meetings Thursday night, which I thought was very bizarre. So I went in to a Jesus people meeting where these Jesus freaks or these Jesus people were having a meeting, and that’s when the spirit of God began to deal with me.

SID: It’s really funny. What did you think was going on with them when you looked at the younger people and the older people?

DENNY: Well having a bit of a drug background I thought they were all high. I mean, I legitimately went in and thought, well these young Jesus people with their guitars and their tambourines, and their long hair, and their jean jackets, they’re all smiling, they’re all happy. They must be high. But there was another segment of the church, the old Pentecostal folk, probably 80, 85 years of age, long-sleeved white shirts and dark trousers and dark shoes, very religious, they were all happy. They were all smiling. So I said I don’t understand this. How can
the old people be high? I had never seen happy old people.

SID: Then someone speaks in a supernatural language, and then they interpreted it. And what
did you think?

DENNY: Blew my mind. The guy was about ten feet away from me. He stood up and the whole church service sort of came to a stop and stands up and he gives this speech. To me, it was a speech in a language that I had never heard. And I went, oh, what was that about? Then to my left an old lady, an old lady, she stands up and she begins to speak in English. And I had never been exposed to this, but I knew that that lady was speaking in English what this man had just spoken in another language so that everyone in the room could get what God was saying. It was in fact tongues and interpretation to hear what Jesus had to say to us.

SID: To make a long story short, he is in the supernatural glory of God. He becomes a believer in the Messiah and then he’s downloaded with these gifts. We’ll pick up right here. Be right back.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Jim Rutz and we’re talking about a mega trend, it is something that is bigger than all of us and it has got to do with the new, which was really
the old system called the house congregation. Now Jim, we were talking about the leader, and tell me who is the leader in a home church?

JIM: There are several leaders, we have distributed leadership, because if you put everything into one person then pretty soon the authority, the thought, everything is flowing down from the top. In the New Testament leaders are supposed to be at the
bottom of that pyramid, supporting everybody else. If you go around the traditional churches and ask people, “Are you there in that church to support the vision and
ministry of the pastor, or is the pastor there to support you in your own personal ministry?” Everyone would say the same thing.

SID: But how could a large church, how in the world can the pastor support the individual vision, he may have the heart to do it, but unless they are supporting
his vision it’s just not going to happen.

JIM: Bingo. That’s it!

SID: So what would you say the real difference is between the house church and the traditional church?

JIM: It’s your identity, it’s your relationship, Sid if you and I were in a house church we would belong to each other, it’s really kind of a 24-7 thing rather than a Sunday go to meeting thing, not that there is anything wrong at all with meeting on Sundays but if you’ve got a problem, I’ve got a problem, and I don’t rest until your problem is solved, and if somebody is after SID Roth or trying to put you down or attack you in some way, they are going to have to get past me first, because I am there to cover you and you are there to cover me, we belong to each other. You know you can’t buy that kind of loyalty these days. And so that is why house churches are growing, people are really hungry for that kind of belonging and responsibility and accountability, if I see you slipping off the track and starting to do some things that are wrong, I am going to take you aside and say, “Sid, this is not good in your life.”

SID: What goes on in a house church?

JIM: Almost everything, the fun thing is you can never know what is happening, when you open it up and the Holy Spirit is in charge, Yeshua is there, Jesus is there, and you might kind of have a habit of say starting off with some singing, but beyond that there is hardly any time, people don’t plan these things

SID: How long have you been going to house churches?

JIM: Various things that look like house churches for several decades, it’s evolving.

SID: How long have you been researching this whole subject?
JIM: Oh, fifteen years or something like that.

SID: It’s, you know this book MegaShift, that tells exactly how they can establish this kind of a house church, but how can you be different every week, I mean everyone falls into patterns.

JIM: Well, I’m a creative guy, but if I had to create fifty-two different programs for fifty-two different meetings, I couldn’t do it, but the Holy Spirit somehow manages to take all the threads of what people have been thinking about and doing all week and drawing it together like a conductor waving a baton, things weave together and you say a scripture verse and that reminds me of something in my life which inspires somebody else to pray something and somebody else thinks of a song out of that and it just flows

SID: But who gives the message?

JIM: The message, the message

SID: Yes.

JIM: Okay, there’s the problem Sid, a sermon arose, over a couple of hundred years or so it became a…I stand up and I talk and you set there and you listen.

SID: Just a couple of hundred years ago?

JIM: Well no, through the first two hundred years of the church service developed, we don’t have that, we have a lot of people bringing a lot of messages, and so even if you are a new Christian you are going to learn to open up your Bible and say, “You know I was reading in this book called Galatians, Galatians, and God spoke to me and said this verse here last week, you know.” and so even new Christians are able to start ministering.
We had a meeting just south of Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Colorado, years ago, a friend of my had fallen and broken her ankle into a million pieces, it was terrible, and so they
gathered around, “Let’s pray for Jeanie,” and so they all came around and put hands on Jeanie and here is this two year old boy named Moses, from across the room walks over, puts his little two-year-old hands around her ankle and everybody in the room hears all these bones snapping back into place, two-years-old. So everybody gets involved, it is not longer a case of who brings “the message” or who is the leader?

SID: So no one could be hidden, no one could be behind the back of someone is what you’re saying.

JIM: It’s pretty hard with ten or twelve or fifteen.

SID: Now the ennis, the truth, you’ve been going to these meeting for many, many, years, is there a sense of excitement before you go to a meeting really and truly? It’s not the same old, same old, it’s not routine as usual.

JIM: Not even close to same old, same old, if you have a bunch of people who know how to listen to the Holy Spirit then it is going to be different every time. The Holy Spirit doesn’t deal in cookie cutter programs. Programs, we say are for people who don’t know how to listen to God.

SID: Say that statement again.

JIM: Programs are for people who don’t know how to listen to the Holy Spirit.

SID: Jim, as you know God has had me teaching on the one new man, and the one new man if I had to come up with a word to describe it, there are many things, but the one word, if they forced me to come up with the one word of what it is, it’s freedom, and I did an experiment recently, went into my own home town, I rented a hotel room, I just put the chairs in a circular, with concentric circles, one time I did a rectangle, one time with
Concentric rectangles, we had anywhere from a hundred and fifty to two hundred people at both of these meetings and I said the hardest things that I am going to do is to keep quiet, I don’t know if you can relate.

JIM: That’s hard.

SID: But it was very, very difficult for me, now the hardest thing that you are going to do
is to talk, because you are so used to being a spectator.

JIM: Yes, yes.

SID: Well, it started out a little rough, but then one person had courage to stand up and so you know that it was so wonderful, I mean a man gets up, someone I don’t even know, should I give him permission, should I not give him permission, and he says he was in a mental institution and God gave him some songs and Jesus came in and He became real to him and He took over his life and he sits down. So I said, he didn’t have a guitar, I said, someone hand him a guitar, talk about risk taking, so he takes this guitar, and I have to tell you Jim, the Spirit of God just flowed into that auditorium, wasn’t even an auditorium, that hotel room, like a river. The leaders didn’t sit together, the worship team wasn’t there because the worship team were the people with the guitars and violins and banners and tambourines and shofars, and at one point the Spirit of God moved into that
meeting in such a tangible fashion that has never happened in my life, my hands literally started burning and Jim I knew that I could lay hands on people and they would be healed, but I knew God didn’t want me to, it was like a sign to tell me that God was ready
to heal Himself, no one laid hands on anyone, I said to someone who I didn’t even know, “Stand up and pray a blanket prayer over everyone.” And they prayed that prayer and guess what, there were half a dozen miracles, I mean genuine miracles, I mean someone who had parachuted from a plane and landed badly with broken everything got instantly healed. And then the next meeting we had we expected the same thing, no, God had an entirely different plan and this wasn’t a house meeting, this was a larger meeting, I mean it is so exciting because you don’t know what God is going to do.

JIM: Yes it’s an open meeting; He is the God of surprises.

SID: What will happen if someone reads Mega Shift?

JIM: Well hopefully his life will get changed and he will realize who he really is, he will have a new identity, or she will be able to do things that they have never done before.
It doesn’t mean that tomorrow morning you step out the door and heal everybody in sight but it gives you a great starting point and you learn to grow, and you are not doing it alone anymore, because you will have people around you that are praying for you, supporting you, and helping you.

SID: Listen, this is another significant, mentoring tool for the next, for the greatest, and I believe for the last move of God’s Spirit before the Messiah returns. You have been wondering what am I going to do, I would like to have a house congregation, I don’t know how to do it, this book will show you how to do it, and then just do the stuff, it’s that simple, but listen, you could go to another country with this principle and probably start a thousand congregations, women over eighty years of age are doing this in other countries, read it in this book. Jim Rutz, thank you for writing this, thank you for your years of research in this, but I really believe that this is a “how to” manual.

JIM: It is.

SID: So just take it in their hands and get a baby. It’s that simple, and get right with God.

SID: So in other words what He said is when the leaders, the Sanhedrin, say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord,” Jesus will be here. That’s quite a nuance; difference.

PAUL: Well, they disappeared. Here’s the exciting thing. And it’s happened right under the noses of most Bible believers, and they don’t even know it’s happened. At the end of 2004, 71 elders calling themselves the revived Sanhedrin approached the Knesset and said “We are now here. We’re back. We’re the rulers.” They disappeared for over 1,700 years. 1,700 years – No longer as a ruling body; and reappeared at the end of 2004.

SID: I don’t have to be a mental giant – you don’t have to be a mental giant to figure that out. They’re here now. They’re ready to say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” And Jesus will be here. Miracles: next segment. Trust me – don’t go away. Be right back after this. 

SID: Sid Roth here with Paul Wilbur, messianic Jewish psalmist. And it’s one thing when Paul goes to a nation like Zambia and sees miracles – which he did. Tumors drop off. But what happens when he’s just worshipping God in a church in Miami. What happens Paul?

PAUL: Well, there was a very spectacular presence of the living God. In Psalm 22:3, God promises, through King David, “I inhabit the praises of My people.” So if we will just put ourselves in an attitude of praise, He comes where we are. Now when we were in Miami, we were doing just that: A couple thousand Gypsies. These are Romanian immigrants that have come to the United States, they’ve got their own culture and language. And in about the second song, Sid, the Lord spoke to my heart and said “I don’t want to hear any more about My power. I want to demonstrate it now.” And that really kind of shook me, because I didn’t know what was going to happen. And then I understood that I should speak about healing, so I stopped the music. I told the people “The Lord is here to heal you.” and we had about four blind eyes and four or five deaf ears, in Miami, Florida, came open in a Sunday morning church service. The place just exploded.

SID: Listen. Paul Wilbur and his wife are quite a team. I just wish his wife, Luanne, would work on cue. She doesn’t. She can only speak when God speaks to her. But I was having dinner with Paul and all of a sudden, I see her go like this to his shoulder, and she starts speaking in an unknown language and he starts translating. Paul, you told me that you were talking to someone on the phone who had cancer, and what happened?

PAUL: They were healed. My wife and I were out to lunch. This is a good Presbyterian girl, you know, but God’s just gotten a hold of her. We were out to lunch, sitting by the beach, enjoying a nice afternoon, a friend of mine called. He said “We’re going to Milwaukee to have testing for cancer. I’ve been told I have this cancer and that cancer.” My wife pulled on my sleeve…

SID: I know that sign now.

PAUL: …And she had a message for him. I got the interpretation, declared to him that he’s healed, that the Lord is going to prove it to him. He called me two weeks later and said “I’m completely free. No cancer.” It’s just wonderful.

SID: Listen, that’s just wonderful for him, but what about you? Some of you are saying “What about me?” I believe, as Paul Wilbur sings from his new album, “Holy, Holy, Holy,” as you reach your heart up to God, miracles will break out. Get ready. Paul, go over there.

§ music §

Holy, holy, holy is the God of Israel Elders bow in worship as the angel voices swell Rain clouds of incense swirl around Your throne of grace Lord, we bow in worship at the brilliance of Your face We cry holy Holy Holy Is the Lord Holy Angels cry holy The Lord, He is holy Holy is the Lord You are the Lord’s There’s none like You, Lord Who is like You, oh Lord, among the gods? Holy, holy, holy is the song that heaven sings All creation praise Him, Hallelujah Elohim Come to reign forever, King Of Kings and Lord Of Lords Hill of Zion, open wide you ancient doors And cry holy Holy Holy is the Lord Holy Holy Holy is the Lord Of Lords Holy is the Lord, righteous and mighty Holy is the Lord Holy, holy The God who’s healing us You ever listen when we call You here Holy is the Lord

§ music § 

SID: The great Jewish prophet, Isaiah, caught a glimpse of God, and he said “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty. He’s high and lifted up, and His train fills the temple.” But then he says “Woe is me! I’m undone! I’ve seen the Lord.” And he recognized his sin. He recognized that all of his righteousness counted for nothing. Compared to another man it counted a great deal, but compared to God that he caught a glimpse of… God you’re so good. You’re so good. If you will turn from your sins, our good God will cover them with His blood. And He says, even more than cover, He will remove those sins in the name of Jesus. In the act of… Paul, God is telling you something.

PAUL: Yes. There’s someone listening to you right now, Sid, and they’re saying “I wish I knew that this was real.” And the Lord is going to confirm this to you, because you have tumors in your stomach; a lot of acid and a lot of discomfort. And the Lord is healing those right now as a sign to you that you are loved of God and can be saved. There’s someone else Sid that’s listening right now that has an issue of blood. There’s a loss of energy and a loss of vitality, and the doctors don’t know what to do; but there’s a leaking of blood somewhere internally in you that the doctors haven’t found, and the Lord is healing that for you right now because He loves you.

SID: Other miracles are happening right now too. Spines – they’re literally being repaired. Bend over, you’ll see there’s no pain in the neck, no pain in your neck, your back. And hip – if you’ll stand up and just jump, you’ll see that that pain is totally gone. This is your moment. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to say “Oh, I’ll just look at something else on TV”? Or are you going to have an encounter with the Living God? Choose this day whom you shall serve, but as for me and my house, we’re going to serve the Living God. I want you to be part of the mishpochah; that’s a Hebrew word, it means ‘family’. I want you part of God’s family. Why would you want to walk around like a blind man, when you can see? In Jesus’ name, repent to your sins, and believe that He is your Lord. Ask Him to forgive your sins and live inside of you. 

SID: So in other words what He said is when the leaders, the Sanhedrin, say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord,” Jesus will be here. That’s quite a nuance; difference.

 

PAUL: Well, they disappeared. Here’s the exciting thing. And it’s happened right under the noses of most Bible believers, and they don’t even know it’s happened. At the end of 2004, 71 elders calling themselves the revived Sanhedrin approached the Knesset and said “We are now here. We’re back. We’re the rulers.” They disappeared for over 1,700 years. 1,700 years – No longer as a ruling body; and reappeared at the end of 2004.

 

SID: I don’t have to be a mental giant – you don’t have to be a mental giant to figure that out. They’re here now. They’re ready to say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” And Jesus will be here. Miracles: next segment. Trust me – don’t go away. Be right back after this. 

 

SID: Sid Roth here with Paul Wilbur, messianic Jewish psalmist. And it’s one thing when Paul goes to a nation like Zambia and sees miracles – which he did. Tumors drop off. But what happens when he’s just worshipping God in a church in Miami. What happens Paul?

 

PAUL: Well, there was a very spectacular presence of the living God. In Psalm 22:3, God promises, through King David, “I inhabit the praises of My people.” So if we will just put ourselves in an attitude of praise, He comes where we are. Now when we were in Miami, we were doing just that: A couple thousand Gypsies. These are Romanian immigrants that have come to the United States, they’ve got their own culture and language. And in about the second song, Sid, the Lord spoke to my heart and said “I don’t want to hear any more about My power. I want to demonstrate it now.” And that really kind of shook me, because I didn’t know what was going to happen. And then I understood that I should speak about healing, so I stopped the music. I told the people “The Lord is here to heal you.” and we had about four blind eyes and four or five deaf ears, in Miami, Florida, came open in a Sunday morning church service. The place just exploded.

 

SID: Listen. Paul Wilbur and his wife are quite a team. I just wish his wife, Luanne, would work on cue. She doesn’t. She can only speak when God speaks to her. But I was having dinner with Paul and all of a sudden, I see her go like this to his shoulder, and she starts speaking in an unknown language and he starts translating. Paul, you told me that you were talking to someone on the phone who had cancer, and what happened?

 

PAUL: They were healed. My wife and I were out to lunch. This is a good Presbyterian girl, you know, but God’s just gotten a hold of her. We were out to lunch, sitting by the beach, enjoying a nice afternoon, a friend of mine called. He said “We’re going to Milwaukee to have testing for cancer. I’ve been told I have this cancer and that cancer.” My wife pulled on my sleeve…

 

SID: I know that sign now.

 

PAUL: …And she had a message for him. I got the interpretation, declared to him that he’s healed, that the Lord is going to prove it to him. He called me two weeks later and said “I’m completely free. No cancer.” It’s just wonderful.

 

SID: Listen, that’s just wonderful for him, but what about you? Some of you are saying “What about me?” I believe, as Paul Wilbur sings from his new album, “Holy, Holy, Holy,” as you reach your heart up to God, miracles will break out. Get ready. Paul, go over there.

 

§ music §

 

Holy, holy, holy is the God of Israel Elders bow in worship as the angel voices swell Rain clouds of incense swirl around Your throne of grace Lord, we bow in worship at the brilliance of Your face We cry holy Holy Holy Is the Lord Holy Angels cry holy The Lord, He is holy Holy is the Lord You are the Lord’s There’s none like You, Lord Who is like You, oh Lord, among the gods? Holy, holy, holy is the song that heaven sings All creation praise Him, Hallelujah Elohim Come to reign forever, King Of Kings and Lord Of Lords Hill of Zion, open wide you ancient doors And cry holy Holy Holy is the Lord Holy Holy Holy is the Lord Of Lords Holy is the Lord, righteous and mighty Holy is the Lord Holy, holy The God who’s healing us You ever listen when we call You here Holy is the Lord

 

 

SID: The great Jewish prophet, Isaiah, caught a glimpse of God, and he said “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty. He’s high and lifted up, and His train fills the temple.” But then he says “Woe is me! I’m undone! I’ve seen the Lord.” And he recognized his sin. He recognized that all of his righteousness counted for nothing. Compared to another man it counted a great deal, but compared to God that he caught a glimpse of… God you’re so good. You’re so good. If you will turn from your sins, our good God will cover them with His blood. And He says, even more than cover, He will remove those sins in the name of Jesus. In the act of… Paul, God is telling you something.

 

PAUL: Yes. There’s someone listening to you right now, Sid, and they’re saying “I wish I knew that this was real.” And the Lord is going to confirm this to you, because you have tumors in your stomach; a lot of acid and a lot of discomfort. And the Lord is healing those right now as a sign to you that you are loved of God and can be saved. There’s someone else Sid that’s listening right now that has an issue of blood. There’s a loss of energy and a loss of vitality, and the doctors don’t know what to do; but there’s a leaking of blood somewhere internally in you that the doctors haven’t found, and the Lord is healing that for you right now because He loves you.

 

SID: Other miracles are happening right now too. Spines – they’re literally being repaired. Bend over, you’ll see there’s no pain in the neck, no pain in your neck, your back. And hip – if you’ll stand up and just jump, you’ll see that that pain is totally gone. This is your moment. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to say “Oh, I’ll just look at something else on TV”? Or are you going to have an encounter with the Living God? Choose this day whom you shall serve, but as for me and my house, we’re going to serve the Living God. I want you to be part of the mishpochah; that’s a Hebrew word, it means ‘family’. I want you part of God’s family. Why would you want to walk around like a blind man, when you can see? In Jesus’ name, repent to your sins, and believe that He is your Lord. Ask Him to forgive your sins and live inside of you.