Sid:  My guest Leif Hetland, if you’d been listening to him all this week you are so red hot for the Messiah.  But Leif I have to ask you something, is this love, this Sonship, people could take it to another extreme and make it a license to sin?

Leif:  Yeah, and I hear many people are asking me that question, and first thing I often say is that Jesus for three years, who only said what the Father was saying, did what the Father was doing; he lived as a Son and eventually Simon said, “Who do you say I am?” “You are Christ, you are an anointed Son.”  So the identity of Jesus, He lived the life as a Son, but He did not sin.  So first I just want to say, the old orphan with me, I must be holy to have God’s favor and then I this will increase my sense of shame and guilt.  So what I did in my old orphan heart was that I feel I need to be holy, I need to do these things and then God is going to be happy.  The new, when I became a Son and had a baptism of love, I want to be holy, I don’t want to do anything that hinder intimate relationship with Poppa God.  So as an example with my wife, I have a beautiful wife named Jennifer and I travel all over the world and there’s been all kinds of temptation and opportunity and I’m saying that it is easy for me to say no if I have a big enough yes.  I believe love is greater than fear, I can be fearful that I’m going to get caught or fear can be my motivating, but I have realized that there is something much greater than fear, it works maybe on the penalty system, but it doesn’t cure the hearts of the people.  Love cures the hearts of the people, so I do not believe that it’s a license to sin.  Now people do not need a license to sin anyway even if they are religious or rebellious.  But I believe that subtly because of relationship and you become sensitive to Father God; you become very sensitive and you recognize what Jesus did on the cross for you.  When you recognize the sensitivity of the Spirit, I don’t want to do anything to offend, even in my staff.  We’ve had some tension lately and there have been thing.  I stop with tears and I realized that I carried and offense because it harms relationship, I would rather have relationship than being right and then you humble yourself.  And so if there is even a small sin I want relationships with my wife, with my children, with my staff, with my Poppa God and I want to be able to love other people and now the sensitivity of the Spirit I think is so much greater motivation to live in righteousness then it is to be drawn towards sins.  Anyone that do that, I think there are some major love deficits that needs to be filled up.

Sid:  Give me an example of someone that has sat through your course on healing the orphan spirit and you’ve prayed for an impartation of supernatural love, tell me about one person.

Leif:  It is almost difficult to think about one because I automatically can see masses and masses and thousands and thousands.  But I could go in and one of the people that I keep seeing was Paul and that was so dramatically changed that had been a missionary.  He was burned out, they lived in poverty, they had been struggling and striving.  And in their marriage they were tired, they were weary, they were worn out and he had this encounter.  He just laid down and he just wept and he wept as this liquid love came all over him.  When he was finished with this experience with Poppa God he became a Son and he became a beloved Son from that very place.  Not just his finances, not just his marriage, not just his ministry and his mission, everything had literally.  And I’m not saying that it happened in one moment, this now five years into his journey, but it happened automatically there was a shift and change and things started happening.  And I still remember even, “Daddy Leif, do you know somebody gave me a car?”  And he had been praying for a car, “I said somebody gave you a car?”  He said, “Yes, somebody gave me a car.”  Later on somebody gave him another car, and said, “Daddy Leif, why didn’t this happen before? why didn’t God…”  As orphans, you have to strive and stress for everything, we are Sons and Daughters.  I am not saying some people that are listening are going to get a car.  But I just love the testimony when I saw his face and he was just sharing, “Wow, look what Poppa’s doing.”  I mean he has always been extravagant, there’s all these things that has been available in my account, but there is only one key to the Masters account and that is Sonship.  That is the key and that is also the key to covenant relationship with one another.  That’s how we become a family and then we can say, “Our Father which art in Heaven.”  “Then we can say Your kingdom come Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.” So literally there’s thousands and thousands of testimonies; this one is the easiest for me because it is probably the area I see the most testimony.  I could tell many stories where we had mass healings of people that are lost.  That all I got to say is Poppa, I’ve done it over and over again and people have watched the whole environment changes, they are not even saved yet, but mass healing has taken place and then we lead them to Jesus.  But all I need to do is, if you just honor Him as a Father and we are saying it together that’s all it takes, you are coming not as an orphan begging, striving, hoping that God, you are going to twist His arm, but instead you are coming.  Even before they are saved and the result of the mass salvations took place.

Sid: I would like you to give them a little down payment, if you will on the two CD’s that were making available called “Healing the Orphan Spirit.”  Would you pray for an impartation of Daddy’s Love?

Leif:  I would love to that.  Father I just, you are a good Poppa; I thank you that you are in a good mood.  I thank you that you are smiling, not frowning and every person that is listening, when you are looking at them, even if there is sin in their life, I thank you Father for what I believe is Your goodness is going to connect with any evil, any darkness Your light is going to penetrate and if there is people that don’t even know Your precious Son of Jesus I just ask that you overcome evil good.  The goodness of God would lead to repentance, so I’m asking for a goodness revolution to just touch people that are watching where they are overwhelmed by Your goodness in so much time where there is so many dark clouds, let Your sunshine through.  And I want to pray the prayer that I know changed my life in the year 2000 and that is “That you are Mine and that you are My Beloved.  The Father says, this is Daddy, Father God, He says that you are Mine, you are My Beloved.” Just pray that with me the people that are listening, “You are mine.  Say “I am His, I am Daddy’s.

Sid:  I am His, I am Daddy’s.

Leif:  I am His beloved Son or Daughter.

Sid:  I am His beloved Son.

Leif:  My Poppa loves me.

Sid:  My Poppa loves me.

Leif:  He likes me.

Sid:  He likes me.

Leif:  I’m His happy thought.

Sid:  I’m His happy thought.

Leif:  He is for me not against me.

Sid:  He is for me not against me.

Leif:  I receive Your love.

Sid:  I receive Your love.

Leif:  I receive Your healing.

Sid:  I receive Your healing.

Leif:  I receive the Spirit of Sonship.

Sid:  I receive the Spirit of Sonship.

Leif:  So I can say Abba.

Sid:  So I can say Abba.

Leif:  Daddy.

Sid:  Daddy.

Leif:  Father

Sid:  Father.

Leif:  Just feel it is coming now.  Ha-ha.  It’s the dove, it’s the presence it’s coming over you right now.  Whoa.

Sid:  Well Leif, there is actually people that have hearing problems; their ears are being opened, but not just in the natural.  In the natural, but also in the supernatural;  some of you are going to hear God’s voice clearer than you ever have before.  What else is God doing Leif?

Leif:  I’m also seeing here, first of all there a lot of fear, anxiety that’s been about jobs, marriages, different things, but I sense that it is mainly like a tightness in the chest and then some of it has been measured, a lot I even feel like just a lot of pain, it goes up from the head and it goes down the neck area.  But it has just been released the tightness of the chest, but it is a fear.  “He said, I have not given you a spirit of fear, but I have given you a Spirit of Love because you are loveable, I have given you a Spirit of Power, because you are powerful, and I have given you sound mind.  So the soundness to people’s mind and I just got that in my spirit, He said, your mind suddenly, wow you can think clearly.  The offense is gone, so I am going to go and ask forgiveness, or release forgiveness, something was the soundness of the mind and fear gone when love moved in and suddenly the power came.  Power, your powerful, the power came upon you.

Sid:  And I’m also believing right now that God is showing something is going on with eyes. Some of you that have problems in your eyes or vision problems, or even blindness, you are healed in Yeshua’s Name.”  But, deeper than that, you’re going to be able to start seeing in the Spirit.  One last thought, on what it’s like to be a Son, Leif.

Leif:  It is restful, it is peaceful, it is powerful, it is just secure, it is secure in the middle of all the insecurity.  Living your life as a Son, and that’s the freedom because the dove is there and it will remain there.  So I just want to encourage people.  People call me an apostle of love, they call me doctor Leif, they have all these titles for me, but that is not how I live my life.  Not even being a fatherless movement or pasturing or networking churches or author, no!  I focus my life as a Son and when I do that there’s always peace, there is provision…

Sid:  And I want those that are listening to us right now to focus your life as a Son to walk in this kind of love.

Sid:  My guest, Leif Hetland it’s an understatement he is red hot for the Messiah, and we are talking about something that plagued him even as a Baptist Pastor.  He had an orphan Spirit and he didn’t even know it.  But when he got free, the glory of God set him free, he began to understand the love of the Father, it transformed his life, but it’s not just that it transformed his life and his family’s life, its transforming churches when he shares this.  Tell me the experience you had at Pastor Bob Phillips church.

Leif:  Yes, Pastor Bob Philips had met me at a healing school with Randy Clark and while we were there I was able to give an impartation to his staff.  So he said that I would really like you to come to Houston, TX and I want you to share with our church.  And he’s the Senior Pastor of The Encourager Church and he serves on a lot different boards and so Dr. Bob Philips, he wanted me to release this message and bring a whole environment of family in.  And so we had some amazing services and he actually described it because he is visiting me now, because he described a whole environment of our churches.  It is one thing to have a visitation and we’ve had powerful anointing and gifting and impartations and power, but he said, “Something changed in the whole environment of our people, the very DNA of our people and it lingered it continued to stay upon the people.”  So the message that I came in with was both the Baptism of Love and it’s kind of people asked me, “Are you married?”  And I said, “Well, I think so.” Now if I cannot say yes, I’m married and my wife, her name is Jennifer we’ve been married for twenty-two years, I have four children.  If you have these uncertainties you probably have not had this baptism of love experience that I’m talking about.  It is like, Baptism of the Holy Spirit and so we released that over so there is no longer fear in the room.  That is the first thing, it is a Baptism of Love, you’re My Beloved Son.  Second thing was healing the orphan spirit and get rid of the pain and some of the things that took place.  And the third thing was the glory of God came into that place, even to the extent that people went to different places; Dr. Bob Philip and Juan Carlos who’s leading the God’s Spirit in Mexico today.  They went to Mexico, met with 2,500 young people, the same presence that was on them in that meeting came into the room and just changed the environment there in Mexico.  There was an impartation just of the environment and was a family environment, it was a love environment, fear was moved away.  They brought me to Mexico as an example and I was down there and it was taped all over the Latin world and I gave an impartation of love, healing the orphan spirit.  There was screams all over, it was televised, but it touched all over Mexico and something changed in the environment there.  So we are not talking about a visitation, but our lives, marriages, fear.  When fear moves out, perfect love cast away all fear.  So when the healing of the orphan spirit there’s screams, they’re yelling; some from childhood, some from the abuses, some from the shame, but also with all the drug cartels and what they were going through.  Many of them was up they’re husband has been killed, they’re pastor has been dismissed; there was so much pain in the room.  And we had gone with the anointing, powers and healing, but there was something that was missing.  But when that orphan spirit left and they got a glorious encounter with Poppa God something changes.  It is not just they started out there as the Encourager Church.  But that impartation of that went to a young explosion meeting where all the youth was out in the spirit, several of them were taken up to Heaven and they’re some amazing testimonies.  That move again, they asked me to come down and do their annual leadership conference from all over Mexico and plus it was taped all over Latin world.  And one example, while I released the love, one from Argentina that watched on line says, “That it was all over the world, Spain and all over people were watching, but it was like liquid love that came into the room he said; and the waves just continue and it has been going on four twenty-four hours.”  So he was one to testify and he’s been set totally free.  So the love started to touch even over technology, the sounds of love that came in there just continue and it’s just like liquid love.

Sid:  So liquid love is the best way to get rid of fear, to get rid of shame, to get rid of that orphan spirit.

Leif:  Yes, I say the Baptism of love is what changed.  I really feel that the biggest breakthrough I saw was with my friend, Bill Johnson and Randy Clark doing a healing school at Hosanna Lutheran Church.  And it has been five years ago now this Spring and when we were up there to Filipinos,  but all over the place, but two Filipinos they came up to me and they said, “Can you give us a “Father’s Blessing?” And they wept, because we are orphans, when they heard about orphan spirit.  But all over the place people stood in long line and they cried out because this orphan spirit that started to manifest.  I released the Father’s Blessing, they came up to me afterwards, showed me their hands; oil was coming out of their hands and that is Dr. Paul and Amir Auto, the President of Destiny Ministry International.  I didn’t know who they were, just two people in a conference, but a Father’s Blessing was given and the Father said, “I believe in you, you are valuable, you’re beautiful Father God I released what He saw about them and I started to release the destiny over their life.” They went back and since then revival started to break loose with a lot of signs wonders and miracles.

Sid:  Tell me the story about the feathers.

Leif:  So what happens, I went down the first time to the Philippians to their 500 leaders and it was actually literally wind that came in and blew over chairs in that meeting when the love came in.  But the second time I didn’t even know, I mean this is maybe the Baptist in me Sid, but I didn’t know that I was prophesying.  But in the middle of my message that I was preaching about I suddenly just, I didn’t know I did it, but I just stopped and said you are moving from an organization an orphanage, a church and you’re becoming a family.  When I said that I didn’t know and I have several key American leaders with me sitting on the first row, three big orange feathers just from nowhere just started to soar above my head and they just continued to float.  They continued to float long enough to when everybody in the audience, nobody listened to what I had to say.  And I’m thinking this is pretty rude, I’m sharing powerful message, I didn’t know, I was the last one to know that something was happening.  And then finally one called and said, “Daddy Leif look, look over your head,” and the feathers was there and I had those feathers with me; I carry them with me as a memory stone.  The Filipino’s they said, “What did Daddy Leif say when the feathers came?”  They learned about stewardship of the supernatural that is a sign that makes you wonder, what does this make us wonder about?  So they found a DVD and they saw that when the feather’s came and they said, “You are moving from being an organization, an institution, an orphanage, a church and you are becoming a family.”  And when the family was said, they said, “How does family look like?” was their question, and they started go into the presence of God to see how was it between a Father, Son and Spirit; that’s how we’re suppose to operate here.  And the next time I came I was blown away because everybody was family.  They operated like family, they gave like family, they love like family, it was a family, I didn’t visit an orphanage, I visited a family and since then the families on the earth has been blessed all over the world as a result of that ministry.

Sid:  You know so many, families, husband, wife, and children are run, as you put it, like an orphanage, because they’re all love starved, they’re all orphans.  So many churches are run as spectator sport where you go; you are invisible, you get feed, and then you leave, but that’s not what God meant.  Tell me what’s it’s like to have a church that’s a family rather than an orphanage.

Leif:  Well, first of all the first thing I recognize, I just need to, they are my heroes in the Philippians because I came to them as how did you do that?  What I feel here what I said, “You taught us that us Daddy Leif.”  “What did I teach you?” I gave them my notebook and what I did was observing a prototype of something that was from Heaven that was manifested on earth. One of the things that I saw, there was no punishment, I am not saying that there was not discipline, but there was no punishment.  There was no fear in the atmosphere.  I saw the supernatural what was natural.  I saw the way that they took care of one another, I saw that over ninety percent of any issues that was automatically gone.  I saw that when you are coming there it is not what I can get, because that is the orphans, but what can I give.  When they were coming there they were there to add value, not to receive value.  I saw, I mean that there was a major shift in the way that they were viewing…

Sid:  What you’re telling me, is the entire atmosphere changed.

Leif:  Yes.

Sid:  And when that atmosphere changes how is easy is it for people receive miracles, for people to be delivered, for people to be healed?

Leif:  Yeah, as I say we last year, a team just came back last week, but last year three of the meetings, every person was healed in the meeting and nobody know who prayed for whom.

Sid:  Every person?

Leif:  Every person, it was the only time in my life or ministry, I don’t say that it is normal, but it just happened in three meetings where every kind of disease just left and it was just the presence, and it was the family and it was the love and nobody knows who prayed for whom in a sense that it was not because I was there or somebody was anointed and gifted.  This was the nameless and the faceless move, it is a family; it is Sons and Daughters that is only doing what Poppa is doing.  And everyone carries, we are different from anointing and gifting, but that’s how you live in interdependence, they are not independent.  They need one another, they add value to one another, they honor one and another and it is just a phenomenal feel but it creates an environment where it seems like Heaven is coming down, not just to visit but it creates an environment where creative miracles is taking place, tumors are disappearing, and it is very very attractive as I say for God to come because He don’t want to come to be a visitor again and another program. He wants His family, He wants to habitation, not the visitation and that’s the environment.  So the supernatural seems so natural, it seems so easy and I feel why do we make it so difficult, including in my life that is supposed to be the Father of this movement?  I’m learning and I’m saying, wow this seems so easy, so simple.

Sid:  Boy, I can just feel such a velvety presence of the Holy Spirit, can’t you feel that?  Now Leif Hetland gives these seminars all over where he prays for the impartation of the Father’s blessing.  He prays for impartation of supernatural love.  He prays to have you healed of an orphan spirit.  He prays that you would be free from the perhaps you had a father that was absent or abusive, or just cold.  He prays for you to experience intimacy with God. 

Sid:  But there’s something that is preventing you from walking in the intimacy of a true Son of God.  You’re born again, you will go to Heaven, but there is something missing in your walk.  And that’s why all this week I’ve been speaking to Leif Hetland about an orphan spirit.  Leif, for those that are just tuning in, explain what an orphan spirit is and perhaps how to recognize if you have an orphan spirit.

Leif:  An orphan spirit is a primary identity of someone that is living the life without a home.  And what I mean by that you can have a 10,000 sq. foot house, but still not have a place of home, a place of security, we were made for that.  Every single person in this world God wants us to have security, a place of love, unconditional love because if there’s love deficits in your life you are going to look for love somewhere else; a place of value because to God, I mean you are fearfully and wonderfully made even before you were in his mother’s womb He knew you.  There’s something in each person that there is a value, but orphan’s don’t find that value because the orphan spirit is looking for value in what they are doing or they are judging themselves because they are never going to do enough; they don’t have a place from where the Father they have value.  And they don’t have a proper purpose in life that is from Heaven towards earth.  Orphans would live towards inheritance; either you will find it through massive striving, lack of peace, very self-reliant.  Orphans would have an incredible independent spirit and there’s two ways that I see an orphan spirit and you can recognize if you have one.  Are you comfortable with love?  Are you comfortable with intimacy?  If you are not comfortable and that is the major thing that I recognize in the same also with a different relationship, husbands and wives.  The orphan spirit will blame, the orphan spirit will say well, he did or she did, I didn’t do it, me, me, me that is either manifested in I me, me, me or pointing the fingers to other people playing the blame game.  So I think there’s a root here of restlessness, a root here where you do not have and an A+ on the Father’s report card.  You have not heard the voice that Jesus heard that He wants all of us to have that you are my Beloved Son or my Beloved Daughter.

Sid:  Okay, that leads to the next question, explain to me what Sonship really means.

Leif:  Sonship is also getting back to identity like Jesus was a Son of the Father and you will find that all throughout and that’s why the Jewish faith is so beautiful and you will find it because they define family; Abraham, Isaac, Jacob; but it has to do with family.  A son is somebody that has the identity of a father, have a heart of a father and are living the life in intimacy and relationship with the father is in proper relationship.  One of the Bible terminologies is the Spirit of Adoption, but you’re now part of God’s family; of the Father’s family; He is your Poppa; you are a Son or a Daughter and He is Our Father, but to be Our Father He is my Poppa.   He is your Poppa so you have a Daddy, a Father and you have been affirmed by the Father and that’s the key to being affirmed by the Father and anointed by the Spirit then you can be lead into the wilderness to be tested and come out with a testimony.  A son is somebody that has lived there life like they have a home, they have inheritance; all that Poppa has is mine so that when I am facing difficulties or challenges in life I’ll just say “Well, I’ve got a big big Poppa I’ve got small problems.  But if you got a little Poppa you’ve got big problems.  So that’s it, it is a relationship issue between a Father and a Son it is not a gender thing I am using now.  I’m just using the language like the guys, we are going to be called the bride of Christ for eternity; so this is just a language of a position that we have with Father God.

Sid:  Explain to me at the moment your eyes were opened and you were healed of an orphan spirit.

Leif:  I was lying on a floor and then as Jernigan had just sang a Father’s song over me and I heard the Father’s voice saying, “You are my beloved Son Leif, whom I am well pleased.”  The liquid love that flowed up and down and when I came up from that very floor one of the first things, I just started to weep.  I couldn’t weep, I couldn’t cry before because as Norwegians we don’t do that, just women cry, but not men; and now I weep all the time.

Sid:  Was that the first time you were ever able to freely weep?

Leif:   Yeah, I would say so because I shut down my emotion; I didn’t show a lot of affection; I was afraid of intimacy.  And so there was a lot of issues so when I came as an example home to my wife I just repented, I said, “I’m so sorry,” because there was areas where I had not been able to demonstrate love that I hadn’t been able to express love.  That I hadn’t been able to affirm her, I went to my children many times.  I remember one picture the Spirit gave me was my son came into me and said, “Daddy Daddy did you see my new shoes?  And I was, “Yeah, yeah, yes son I know it’s okay, but I’m working my sermon right now.”  And I just started to think about it and I just started to weep again so I went to my children and I said I’m so sorry for you are more valuable than my sermon, you are more…I mean I wept pretty much for two months afterwards because I started to think about all of these experiences where I had operate as an orphan and to fare financially speaking, the pleasures and everything else.  Jesus didn’t seem to have those pressures because He only did what the Father was doing.   He said what the Father was saying; He lived His life like a Son, He has an inheritance.  “Son all that I have is yours,” became an expression He told me a couple of months later, “All that I have is yours.” And I’m like wow, “Does that mean all?”  “Yeah, all that I have is yours.”

Sid:  The people listening to us right now, they’re dealing with fears of all kinds, they’re dealing with a father that had a lack of being able to show affection or even worse did things to them, or abandoned them, they’re filled with fear, they’re filled with shame, what’s the best way to get rid of this?

Leif:  The biggest thing is to come Home, to come Home.  First of all I want to remind all of us including myself, I had a great father, a good father, he didn’t do any of these horrific things and I literally have talked to thousands of people.  For ten years this has been a primary message, what I am seeing here with let’s come home to Father God.  He will never hurt you, He will not abuse you, He is not distant, He is not angry, He is inviting us like He did with the prodigal son to come home, you don’t have to be in the distant land, you don’t have to be in the pigpen or you don’t have to be out in the field you can come home.  That’s the first things is and what I mean with that is just to come to Poppa God and just getting a revelation of His love towards you, because when I started to get a revelation of the Father’s love towards me and not just that He loves me, but even likes me; He delights in me, I’m His happy thought.  The second element and there is a healing and that is I’m asking the area in my life that is not comfortable with love, because those areas are not comfortable with God for God to pour His love.  And that was including Derrick Prince and newsletter in February 9, 1998.  He had a great healing, deliverance, all this ministry, but he had that orphan spirit so he described that experience that he always all of his life.  We know Derrick Prince, but he had this little dark cloud, he had this struggle with oppression and when that happened to him he experiencing the love.  And he described in his February 9^th, 1998 of his love experience and all this healing took place.  So I’m not saying that you’re always finished with it, but as soon as I start to think like an orphan or feel overwhelmed by finances I am just climbing up on my Poppa’s lap being His little boy and then suddenly finding my security, my love value, my purpose in Him and being a Son.

Sid:  What if someone says, “I see an area where I’m not comfortable with love, what should they do about that?”

Leif:  First thing is just asking Father God to pour His love into those areas, because perfect love casts will take away fear.  I’ll give you one example, because I go a lot into some of the darkest Muslim nations in the world and I use to have a lot of fear doing it.  And the way it cured was that I was bitten by a Pit Bull when I was young and I’ve always been afraid and fearful of Pit Bulls.  If a Pit Bull was to attack a little kitty cat and I know maybe some of the listeners would react.  But if I asked, “What do you think I will do?”  And I need to be honest, I would do nothing.  “Do you know why?” Because the fear that I have for the dog is greater than the love that I have for the cat.  But now if my daughter was there I would have no fear at all.  Why? Because the love that I have for my daughter is greater than the fear that I have for the dog.  I spent three months just receiving love, coming to Poppa and I said, “Poppa I want you to love on me because the love has to come from Him, go through Him and back to Him.  It is not something we make up or we try.  I just position myself, “Daddy, I just want You to love on me today and I want your love go deeper.  I want you to touch…”

Sid:  I’m reminded of the scripture that says, “You have not, because you ask not,” and what you’re saying is that it’s so simple you are asking for Him to open you up to His love.  You’re asking for His love.

Leif:  Wow!  And in 1 Corinthian’s 13; gives a good definition of what love is.  “Love never fails,” that means love always wins.  “It is patient, it is kind, it does not envy.” That’s the nature that you’re pouring into yourself.  It is something that has to do with His nature, the other experiences that I have been in lately is not just to ask that, but I have encountered with Him who is love and that has to do with, I’ll just open myself and through those encounter who He is what you become.  So when fear comes my way it is always an invitation for me to have an encounter with Him who is love; and the love that I experience is not what I just study and read about, but the love that I experience being with Him is what I become and what I become now I can release and the love in me can now change the fear that is around me and you can change an environment and settings and that’s what we just saw when I was overseas a few weeks back.

Sid:  I’ll tell you what, hold that thought.

Sid:  My guest is Leif Hetland, and just before we went on the air I was thinking you know, every show I start out with “We’re the Mishpochah” which is a Hebrew word for family.  And Leif isn’t that what we’re talking about this week when we talk about the orphan spirit and the spirit of son-ship and the devil is the founder of this orphan spirit and he tries to spread it to everyone possible and God is the family of Sonship which God’s really trying to make an extended family.

Leif:  Yeah, and that’s the beauty I hadn’t even, because I don’t know Hebrew as well just know a few words, but as you said that first of all, “Heaven on earth is a family business.  It started with a family and it ends with a family and we’re living a season where the Father is restoring His family here on earth and eventually they are going to be represented from every nation tongue, tribe and language.

Sid:  Well, Malachi talks about this restoration of the last days the Spirit of Elijah is going to come and restore the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers and it says if that doesn’t happen they’ll be a curse on the earth.

Leif:  Yeah, and on the other side we are seeing it in Romans 8, “Creation is moaning and groaning.”  So, there’s a cry in creation from the poor to Muslims, to people all over in homes and poverty and pain and suffering.  Where are the Sons, where are Daughters?  Creation is moaning and groaning and groaning for the very manifestation for us to become what we already are.  Get back and live a life like we have a home, like the prodigal son that leaves sin and let’s get back home to the Father’s home.  If it is rebellion or religion, let’s come home and I have experienced both being, rebellious and religious so I speak out of a lot of experience.  But that’s the glorious home coming that’s taking place in the kingdom.

Sid:  Well, you know most people with an orphan spirit are under a deception and they don’t even realize that they have this because they’ve pushed that fear and that injustice and that pain down so deep that they rely on themselves and that they’re so deceived they think they’re relying on God.

 Leif:  Yeah.

Sid:  Tell me about yourself.  Tell me about how you got an orphan spirit and how you got free.

Leif:  Yeah, I believe that some of that orphan spirit is in us from birth.  It started with me, give me, bless me, I need a clean diaper, “Wah Mommy I want.” Everything is about self in the center and so to a certain degree some of that is there, but for me a major shift that took place was that I came from a godly home.  I mean we have from every angle, both from my Mom and Dad side which is very unusual in Norway, my country, very solid Pentecostal background, good theology, good security.  I had it all, had a great great home, but the deception was the enemy came in and there was a abuse that took place when I was about twelve years old.  And I didn’t know that I put on fig leaves; fear, insecurities, guilt, loneliness, because pain seeks pleasure, now you feel shame and you feel pain and you start to cover up.  And I didn’t realize I started my journey to become a prodigal son, the enemy the ultimate orphan came in and now in the next moment, this is even before I was saved and I gave my life to Jesus, but automatically I started to run towards anything that could try to stop that pain.  The good news was that when I was eighteen years old I had an amazing encounter with Jesus.  Supernatural encounter with Him where I was saved, I was healed and delivered, set free from all kinds of things.  It was just one of those glorious salvations that was the good news!  The bad news was that I went to church which was more like an orphanage where they now was training me to go from a prodigal son to become the prodigal brother and I started with all the duty of religion.  And that kind of was my journey for many years; I went to Bible College, seminary became a pastor and now of course I must be holy, I need to do this, I need.  The prodigal brother issue because if I do that maybe Poppa is going to be well pleased with me.  But, I never do enough, my wife doesn’t do enough, my children don’t do enough.  I never have enough money and no matter what I did I could not please my Father.  So some of those lies that that orphan spirit was there, I mean I was…

Sid:  So you were fear driven, that’s what I’m hearing?

Leif:  Yeah, and it’s to the root of the orphan spirit that’s why the first thing it starts with is a Baptism of Love because “Perfect Love takes away all fear.”  When you’re becoming free from fear than that’s when you can start to live.  But yes, I was fear driven, but it is connected to this orphan spirit.

Sid:  But as a Baptist Preacher, I recall you just got so dry.

Leif:  Yes, I was burned out; I never did enough.  I had some amazing encounters with the Holy Spirit, but the problem was that it was leaking.  The Holy Spirit visited me and I knew now the anointing…

Sid:  And by the way, that’s why the people go from meeting to meeting because they have encounters with the Holy Spirit, but they leak.

Leif:  Yeah.

Sid:  So, they could go to meetings the rest of their life, but if they’re still leaking they’re never going to be satisfied.

Leif:  Yeah, and one of my favorite picture of the Holy Spirit is the dove and because I have started to study and look more and more at doves.  And what I realized I can have the dove and this is how I realize in year 2,000 when I first an encounter with the Father’s love I realized that I was in a big Word of Faith Church, a black church preaching and a dove was there, signs, wonders, miracles.  The power of God just touched that place, it was amazing and then I came into the car and I started to think certain thoughts and every else, the dove was gone, the presence was gone and by the time I got to my wife and kids and got home; I mean I was irritated, I was this and I was that.  I didn’t have love, joy, peace and all of these wonderful things that the dove brings.  I had pigeons but I didn’t know what happened and I started to just notice in that in my life that…

Sid:  But why would you leave such a wonderful place so filled with the Spirit of God and come home irritated; I don’t get it?

Leif:  Well, that’s why I think that that orphan and that orphan spirit comes in, because I didn’t understand that the superglue on your life that is going the dove to stay that’s where we have been anointed by the Spirit.  So we’ve had a baptism of water, a lot of people that are listening and some have had what we call a baptism of the Holy Spirit, the dove came upon you, but they’ve not had a baptism of love and have not been affirmed of the Father.  That was the key for the dove to stay upon Jesus.  Even in the wilderness had the dove stay there and when He came out of the wilderness He was full of the Spirit.  That’s what happened to me in the year 2000.  Suddenly the Father came and similar what Jesus had and there was a voice from Heaven, lying on the floor in Melbourne, Florida that says “You’re My Beloved Son whom I am well pleased.”  I just wept because I couldn’t understand God could be pleased with me because I looked at all these different issues.

Sid:  How does this play out in your marriage with an orphan spirit?

Leif:  Well, when it said that, “You do not do enough,” and you strive for approval when you are constantly having to do something and you are competing with other people and the next moment you are often judgmental because your wife doesn’t pray enough or suddenly in the next moment you start the blame game.  And it affected my marriage and I many times weep about it because I didn’t realize what I was doing that I had such expectation that I thought that God had on me.  And now I put this same expectation on everybody else and it was built up on this fear base and so they didn’t do enough.   So they did feel the affirmation and just the love and the “I’m well please with you, you are my beautiful bride.”  And they didn’t hear that so much, but “You didn’t do this,” or “I wish when I’m preaching you should be up in the front or the kids should be quiet,” or woo I’m still getting drained even talking about how my life use to be as an orphan, it’s just a… It was just a very painful thing for us.  We just survived in it and a lot of orphans do; they learned how to survive in the orphanage.  But why would you want to live your life in the orphanage when you can come home into a beautiful beautiful place?

Sid:  …When people hear this teaching and you pray an impartation of the Father’s love, what changes are you hearing that occur to people?

Leif:  The biggest thing is I say first of the individual life.   People are becoming free from themselves because self has been I the center of the orphan spirit life.  And second of all that I see what major changes they are stopping and they are not judging a lot of the people that are around them because the measurement is not based upon what everybody else does.  You suddenly feel the pain of a brother falling or you feel the pain of your spouse that has been struggling because you’re viewing them with the eyeglasses of love the way the Father views you.  And the other thing I’m seeing, I’ve seen some amazing miracles, I’ll just share one of them in Ankeny, Iowa that I never forgot; Renee was sitting in a wheelchair and it was in an Assembly of God Church in Hawkland Assembly of God, late that night I prayed and we saw a lot of healings but one girl sitting in a wheelchair.  She had been prayed for by all the big names in America, actually I had prayed for her before.  Tragic accident and from her neck and down she cannot move. And suddenly I didn’t have a lot of anointing or faith, but I asked, “Renee what would you like the Father to do for you?”  And she said, “Healing my orphan spirit.”  I never forgot it, tears coming to her eyes and I just started release a Father’s Blessing for her and to make that story short, because we have watched it over and over again, but I said, “Father I know that if this was my daughter Lila that was sitting here, I know what I would do, and now Father I know that you love Renee much more than I love Lila, give her a sign that you are going to heal her and in a matter of one hour and forty-five minutes, Renee is running all over the room, everybody is shouting.  Her father comes in who is in from a different theological equation that believes maybe this was God’s will.  But we had tried faith, we had tried anointing, we had tried giftedness and I have seen major miracles happening when suddenly they realize that, “I am a beloved daughter, my Poppa loves me, He is well pleased with me, He wants to give me great gifts.” And when something shifts in the view towards God and God’s view towards them, suddenly now the view towards others and their views towards the future is just changing in people.  Some major miracles are happening, mainly all kinds of mental disorder; four people bipolar, I mean we have just had so many things where they are laying on the floor for just hours just weeping like I did.

Sid:  My guest is red hot for the Messiah; I wish you could have been a fly on the wall just listening to our conversation before this interview.  Leif Hetland, this is such an important area, we’re talking about healing the “orphan spirit.”  For starters would you explain what you mean by what you mean by an orphan spirit?

Leif:  Yeah, I do believe that the orphan spirit, to put it in a very simple terminology, it can be believers or nonbelievers;  it can be Muslims or it can be from any religious faith, but it can also be somebody in the church, but it is primary an individual that are living their life without a home.  Not without a house, but they do not have a place of security where they feel secure, where they feel loved, where they feel value and they feel purpose.  So they will always then usually two tendencies; either to rebellion which we talked about before, more like the prodigal son and he was a son and there were sin issues and struggles and strongholds and it will take you to this land or sooner or later the pig pen.  Or there would be the religious aspect of the orphan spirit and that is, “Look at what I’m doing for God and you’re constantly working and striving and everything else hoping that Poppa is going to be well pleased with you,” because you are an orphan with an orphan spirit that don’t have a wonderful home and a place in the Father’s heart.  You have not had an affirmation and a father’s blessing over your life; comfortable with Jesus, maybe comfortable with the Holy Spirit, but perhaps you don’t know Him as Father God.

Sid:  Well, to be candid with you the emphasis since the Charismatic Movement, I don’t know about before because I wasn’t a believer in the Messiah before, but since the Charismatic Movement the emphasis has been Jesus or the Holy Spirit, but not Father God.  As a matter of fact most Christians don’t focus on Father God, they focus on Jesus. 

Leif:  Yeah, I believe what’s taking place is that there was a orphan and he was the first orphan with an orphan spirit and his name is Lucifer.  He actually rebelled against His Father and he took actually one third of the orphans with him and eventually…

Sid:  That was quite an orphanage he put together.

Leif:  It was and he created.  But one of the strategies that Lucifer, I mean you can run to the cross over and over get even saved, healed, delivered, but the cross don’t bring you home.  Jesus says. “I Am the way, way to where?”  “I Am the Truth, truth about what?”  So what we have seen is that Jesus was there not just so that we can get to Heaven, but to bring Heaven to us.  The second Adam came to bring us back again into a relationship with Father God.  Back into family where you could hear His voice, see His face, feel His love, experiencing His presence and live in His pleasure, living your life like a home, like Eden.  That’s where I think one of the missing pieces are is that Lucifer is trying all over the place and even if we can get hold, like myself tremendous Jesus encounter with healing, deliverance as well as salvation tremendous encounter with the Holy Spirit.  I had power, I had the dynamite; but orphans with dynamite can be very very dangerous and you can hurt yourself, your marriage, children everybody around you if you are not aware about this orphan spirit; so it’s a testimony of my life.

Sid:  Now so many people that are believers have an orphan spirit in your opinion?

Leif:   Yeah, in my opinion I believe that the majority of the believers have an orphan spirit.

Sid:  I believe that also.

Leif:  Yeah, I believe like myself that deception is very deceiving I didn’t know I had one.  There is some example in 1995 when I first went to Brownsville and we were reminded, it was in the Father’s day that move was started, but in August as Baptist Pastor from Norway stood in line and I came in.  And I didn’t know I had that orphan spirit and constantly hoped that if so and so would pray for me and this one, but they just walked by me and I was more and more offended that certain people didn’t touch me and I didn’t realize that I had an orphan spirit was rising up.  Other people were being touched, look at that person being blessed and so that one has a testimony and that one got healed.  If it was a family I would rejoice because that’s my brother and my sister that just got healed or touched and blessed, that’s how you

Sid:  That you were so hurting that you couldn’t think that way, you could only think from a selfish mindset.

Leif:  Yes, and that’s what orphans do and they are in competition that’s why we split churches, that’s why marriages split.

Sid:  Give me some of this so that people listening, give me some of the symptoms of an orphan spirit, how we could recognize it if we’re working from that.

Leif:  Let me give you some of a couple of examples, first of all orphans are often independent and there very self-reliant.  They’re independent, it’s about me, bless me, touch me, fill me, me, me so when it comes to…they see often God as a master, but they are independent or self-reliant;  while sons and daughters when in a family realm are interdependent.

Sid:  You know what I often think about, Jesus said, “I only do what I see my Heavenly Father doing,” and seems to me and orphan says is pragmatic and says, “Well I don’t see my Father doing so therefore I got to do it myself.”

Leif:  Yeah and here’s the ache that I feel in my heart, I have some powerful testimonies of transformation in my own life, but there’s several stories that come to my mind.  But one of the first time that I taught this very thing I’m remember people weeping all over the place, they ran up, but I’m guessing a transformation taking place when they get this very revelation and that is that first of all of Father God, but I believe that is the dysfunction of Father and I dealt with it different types of father.  If you had a father that was abusive, a father that was authoritative, a father I mean I went into different types of father and all over the place people just started to weep.

Sid:  A father that is not abusive necessarily, but distant.

Leif:  Yeah, now God is

Sid:  Or absent.

Leif:  Yeah. 

Sid: I mean look at the African American community, how many are single parent households. 

Leif:  Yeah, and just a couple statistics, I’ll try to not use a lot of them, but I was just thinking that  40% of all children today will go to bed in fatherless homes their Daddy, natural Daddy is not even around.  And 63% of the suicide comes from fatherless homes, and ninety percent of all homeless and run away children and the list goes on and on and on.  So America’s government said, “The number one problem that we have,” this is Federal Interagency for Child and Family statistics they say that, “The biggest problem we have in America of all problems is fatherlessness, Number 1!  What Jesus wanted to do and He said…

Sid:  You know what I’m wondering as I hear you say this, because I’ve heard people say this is that many people become homosexuals because they never had a good father relationship.

Leif:  Yeah, and we have seen literally mass mass deliverances when it comes to homosexuals; mainly just when there was a healing of the orphan spirit when you release.  What I do is, I release a Father’s Blessing over people and I represent Father God and I ask sometimes forgiveness for the natural fathers standing in the gap.  But even the Father bless them and then He says, “Now you can be fruitful, just be fruitful, multiply and take dominion.”  But right before and I know that you as Jewish people understand this better than us Norwegian and Americans, but it was the Father’s blessing that said, “Now you can be fruitful, multiply, take dominion, whoa, ask of Me and I will give you the nations.”  Right before there is a correlation right between a Father and a Son, but we do not see the relational element of being a Son like Jesus.  At first in the natural for eighteen years, excuse me for thirty years, but you will find that when He was twelve years old till He was thirty years old that He placed Himself under the subject of submission under His Father’s mission in the natural and then the Heavenly Father came and says, “You‘re My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.

Sid:  I have to believe that there are people listening to us Leif, right now that feel that disconnect, they’ve substituted other things, but they know in their heart of hearts there’s a disconnect between them and God.

Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with Peter Horrobin. And some of you have been abused when you were a child and you buried it deep. But it’s time for freedom for you. It’s time for you to be free.

Peter, tell me the story of that woman in Russia, Olga.

Peter: Yeah. Baba Olga came to one of our conferences and Olga, being brought up in Russia, she had had a really abusive childhood, but then she was sexually abused by Russian officers in the Communist system. She had a horrendous childhood. Then she met and married an American barber who was over there on business and he brought her back over here. And years later she has scoliosis of the spine, constant pain, constant physiotherapy, no hope of anything being healed. And she came to the teaching on forgiveness. And as she heard the teaching that I had been sharing from the Word of God she suddenly realized that God was saying there’s a link between her twisted spine and the pain she’s in constantly, and the abuse that she suffered as a child. And right there sitting in the seat just listening to the teaching, even before I prayed for anybody, you know, you don’t have to have someone pray for you. When you begin to actually put things right in your own heart, the Spirit of God…

Sid: And by the way, some of you can be doing that right now right as Peter is talking.

Peter: Absolutely. Yeah.

Sid: Come on now. Your parents didn’t raise a dumb person. Do something. Go ahead.

Peter: So as I was teaching she heard the message, “forgive” and she forgave. And as she was sitting there in the conference she began to feel her spine being straightened. She couldn’t understand what was going on, but she knew that there was a link now that God was working out. When she got home that night, she looked at herself in the mirror and her previously twisted spine was absolutely straight. All the pain had gone. And she came back the following day to the conference just absolutely rejoicing. She had forgiven. She turned as it were the master key, I like to talk about it, she had forgiven and she had spoken blessing out on those who had abused her and hurt her.

Sid: She opened the door that had been closed with all of that pain.

Peter: Absolutely.

Sid: And the pain left.

Peter: Jesus went into the room with her.

Sid: I like that even better.

Peter: And all the pain and all the suffering, and all the demonic power, she was delivered. She knew she was being delivered of spirits of infirmity that were affecting her spine and holding it in that twisted position.

Sid: Tell me about the woman in Rwanda.

Peter: Yeah. Frieda was in an incident in the middle of the Rwanda genocide. All her family had been gathered together and they were about to be murdered. And the people who were doing the killing just gave them the option of how they were going to die. And they all chose how they were going to die. They were too poor to buy a bullet, which would have been quick, and so they were hit on the back of the head by machetes. And she watched as her younger brothers and sisters were murdered one by one in front of her, and her mother, and all the rest of her family, 15 members of her family, and she was the 16th. All of them were put into a shallow grave. Fourteen hours later, someone sat on that grave and heard a noise from underneath.

Sid: She was buried alive with all of her dead relatives.

Peter: She was buried there. Absolutely. They thought she was dead. And she made a noise and that was her. And they scrambled underneath and they pulled her out. So she had been alive for 14 hours with 15 dead members of her family. She fled the country. Out of the country, she met a friend who introduced her to Jesus and she began to read what she calls The Book. And in The Book she began to see that, not only had Jesus given her new life and relationship with God, but He wanted to live His life through her. And in The Book it said, “Forgive.” And so she was like, “I’ve got to forgive.” And when she came back to Kigali after the genocide was over, she went to the jail where the man who had done the massacring was in jail and she spoke forgiveness to him for what he had done.

Sid: How could she do that? Explain to me how she could do that. I mean, someone that murdered, I mean murdered by hitting your relatives, your mother, your father, your brother, your aunt, your uncle on the head, and you, you’re knocked out and they’re all put into a grave. You didn’t do anything wrong, nothing wrong. You’re buried alive and you’re telling me she went to the prison and forgave that person?

Peter: She did. And that was the grace of God. You cannot do it except He gives you the courage to do it. And it’s exactly the same thing. How could Jesus forgive those who were nailing him to the cross? It’s actually a very similar situation. And he said, “Bless those who curse you.” And when she came away from the jail she was a different person. Many years later, she wanted to help her fellow Rwandans. And she came to one of our schools to train, but she was constantly in pain. The back of the head where she was hit with the machete, the pain never went away. Every night when she sank into semi-consciousness on her pillow, she was sinking into the grave, along with all the dead relatives. The trauma was right there every single night. And that conference, that school that she came on, I prayed with her that Jesus would go right into those memories, right into that moment of trauma, right into that moment when she had actually been put into the grave and to heal her at that moment in her history. And a transformation took place. The following morning she came down from her room and she said, “For the first night since the genocide I have slept without any nightmares. I have no pain in my head.” I’ve been back to Rwanda, been to her home and she and her husband are now pastor of a 3000-strong church in Kigali.

Sid: Can you imagine that from being buried alive to being a pastor of a 3000-member church? If Frieda could forgive, it’s easy. It’s easy for you to forgive. When we come back, I’m going to have Peter pray for you. Don’t go away.

Sid:  Speaking about blowing the grandest shofar, the grandest trumpet, my guest Rabbi Michael Zeitler … when he teaches about Israel the presence of God just literally flows like a river and then when he blows the shofar people are healed of so many conditions and he moves in words of knowledge.  …it is so important to understand where we are in the last days in the end times to understand the teaching that Michael brings forth in his book.  Actually Michael, you were giving a talk for a group of Christian millionaires that when they got a hold of this message you can finally put together where we are in end times.  …There is a connection between Israel and miracles and when you share them the miracles explode.  Tell me one more time about a time you spoken in the last three months and you blew the shofar and what happened. (Interview was between June/July ‘2010) 

Michael:  It was amazing Sid, absolutely amazing.  I’d blow the shofar and the Lord said, “To tell the people that their hearing had opened as they heard the blast of the shofar.”  And I asked, and the people are pretty much afraid to give testimony here in South America, I don’t know why but they are and ten people came forward and gave testimony that there hearing was opened when they heard the shofar blown.

Sid:  Oh, it’s not just hearing, what other types of miracles are coming forth?

Michael:  People are giving testimony that they felt tremendous; and I didn’t prompt them and tell them that they are going to feel fire or electricity or whatever I didn’t say any of that stuff and they’re telling me as they are giving testimony that they felt either fire or electricity or cold as their pain in their liver was gone, pain in the kidney’s gone, pain in the feet gone.  That they couldn’t walk properly and now they could walk.  They couldn’t turn their necks and now they can turn them perfectly and they were showing me how they could turn them around; and then bending over and their backs were healed, shoulders and people waving their arms and showing how their arms and shoulders were healed.  Arthritic conditions disappearing; tumors disappearing as the people checked the tumor was gone.

Sid:  Tell me about the angelic choir.

Michael:  Oh, it was so awesome!  We were in this church and I didn’t have to do a thing, I taught on the urgency of the hour.  I taught about Israel, I taught about Israel being the fig tree as Yeshua said in Matthew that it’s going to be the sign that you look to the season.  And then all of a sudden we hear angelic voices singing.  Three angelic voices and people testifying that they felt actual physical presence of someone touching their bodies and they were being miraculously healed; they were twenty-five people that came up to give testimony that they were miraculously healed.  No one touched them, no one said anything, all I did was just tell them what God told me He was doing and narrating the whole thing as He just performed this wonderful blessing of this service that He did in this church.

Sid:  Now, did many people hear this angelic choir?  

Michael:  Everyone.

Sid:  Everyone?

Michael:  Including the pastor, yes.

Sid:  Now, you teach about that we are literally in the last days, explain.

Michael:  We are in the last days, La Dorr Akron is the Hebrew for last days and that’s where we are.  Why?  Because in 1948 in May Israel became a nation as it was prophesied in Isaiah “Can a country be born in one day?”  And she was and today we are closer than we have ever been before to the returning of Messiah.  Meshach is coming soon Sid, and everybody must realize this that not just me, but greater things shall they do because Jesus, Yeshua has gone to be with the Father.  There is no reason for anyone not to be working and moving in miracles because God said that signs and wonders will follow them that believe.  And so they must go out and believe that this will happen too; and that’s the reason why it says in Joel that in the last days, which we are in God is going to pour out on all flesh, and this is what He’s doing.

Sid:  Why do you believe we are in the last days?

Michael:  Look at what’s happening, earthquakes, even here where I am in Peru right now talking to you we’ve had earthquakes in Chile; we’ve had earthquakes in Guatemala, we’ve had earthquake in Peru a little further north of where I am.  God said that in the last days that there would be problems in the economy, there would be problems in the weather, there would be problems in earthquakes.  The kinds of things that have been happening in the weather, I mean look at the amount of snow that you even got down there in Georgia for the first time.  It’s just all the signs of the times of what God is showing us and the nation of Israel is the key and we see everything happening.  It even says in the last days Jerusalem would become a stumbling block to the nations.  And what’s happened today?  ‘That’s exactly what’s going on.

Sid:  Tell me about some of the miracles of the various wars, I mean Israel should not be in existence today, but talk about the miracles.

Michael:    Oh, so many so many different miracles, I’ve you know to relate just give you an example; a lot of times during the wars the solders, the commanders would turn to the Bible. So in one particular example in the War of Independence they needed to get the city of Leyte which is where the air port is today, the Ben Gurion airport, they needed to get it free.  And so they looked to the Bible, they saw what Gideon did with his men and sixteen brave Commandos went in dressed as Arabs, made so much noise at night that 7,000 Arabs started shooting at each other and all ran off in different directions and the city of Leyte was taken over.  Just absolutely miraculous things that God does in all these wars that the Israeli’s is outnumbered and then later on there’s testimonies that are given by Arab soldiers, by Arab commanders of seeing angelic tanks on the Golan Heights and because there was only three tanks that were Israel’s, but yet the Syrian Commanders saw hundreds of Israeli tanks and they surrendered because of it.  So many different testimonies of the hand of God.  So even one example there was a commander that was told to go on the Golan Heights to go back behind enemy lines with his commandos and take out the headquarters where the generals are and everything.  And when he went in there and he was throwing hand grenades and he was shooting, his name was Effie and all of a sudden out of nowhere in the smoke, a white dove appears and flies and lands on his shoulder on his left shoulder.  And for two weeks he is fighting the most serious fights that he has fought in his military career with his commandos and the whole time, Sid the dove is sitting on his shoulder and not one of his men in his unit ever were injured.  Here is another one Sid, the kibbutz of Degania, one of the first kibbutz is being attacked by a column of Syrian armored division, tanks and armored trucks; they’re coming down from Syria and two weeks prior the British had remover all the weapons from Israel.  And Lt. Colonel Moshe Dianne has an antique cannon and antique artillery piece from the Franc oppression war of 1870.  He quickly has the mean put it together; they fire upon the lead Syrian tank and take it out and all of that 200 column turn around and go back to Syria because they’re afraid that maybe Israel has a secret weapon.  Then another example, awe this is wild, their up on a bluff, there’s a unit of Israeli soldiers and their fighting against maybe 10,000 Arabs that are below them.  They’ve run out of ammunition; in desperation they take their oil drums and pour gasoline over them, these are empty oil drums and they roll them down the mountain toward the Arab force.  A thunder storm rolls in at the same time and the Arabs see the flaming barrels, hear the sound of them hitting the rocks and the thunderstorm and they think that Israel has a secret weapon and they ran off in fear.  And then another one, they look again to the Bible and they see in the Bible that there is an ancient road that they didn’t know about and at night the bulldozers move the rocks and an Israeli unit, goes, a convoy a military convoy goes on that road surprises a garrison, an Egyptian garrison and is able because of it to end the war.

Sid:  Were out of time right now, but as Michael teaches the miracle of ancient Israel, things that very few Christians understand, why it’s so important to God at this moment in history, miracles are released as he teaches.

Sid:  Have you read, there is such a difference in the Bible between twenty-first century American Christianity and what the Bible says it’s suppose to be like.  And one of the biggest problems is discipleship and one of the biggest problems in discipleship is the early church understood things that have been lost.  For instance, in the area of deliverance; the early church understood how to literally dismantle the anchors of demons so that they have no legal rights so it’s simple to cast these spirits out.  And my guest Mark Virkler has been instructed by the Lord to put together a series called “Prayers that Heal the Heart.”…Mark I am really overwhelmed at how complete your course is…

Mark:  …everyone needs these prayers and when I first went through them with Kaye Cox my first question was, I think I’ll find out from the prayer counselee which of these seven prayers they need.  And then after I prayed with a half dozen people I came to the realization everybody needs all seven and so I stopped asking the question which one you need and I said, guess what, you need all seven.  And if by any chance you didn’t need one of them, that means you wasted five minutes in prayer you didn’t have to waste, but it’s better to cover all your bases rather to have something hanging around.

Sid:  Well, let’s go to the third supernatural prayer for replacing negative beliefs and renouncing intervows, what is that?

Mark:  Well, it’s a couple of prayers that actually go hand and hand.  A negative belief would be an unbiblical belief; a belief that does not line up with scripture; like for example I believe that “I’m probably going to fail.”  Okay, that’s surely doesn’t line up with scripture and if I believe that I might make a promise to myself;  I might promise and say, “You know what I’m not even going to try, because I’m pretty sure I’m going to fail.”  So with every belief comes a vow, you might not be aware of the vow, but the vow in this case would be, “I’m not going to try, because if I try I’m just going to suffer I’m just going to fail again and again and I can’t handle the emotional pressure so I’m not going to try.”  And people say well I don’t think I made a vow and if I did make a vow I have no idea of what my vow would have been.  I say, “Well look at your action, because you believe you’re going to fail what action do you take?”  And they say, “Well, the action I take is I don’t try anymore.”  I say, “Okay then your vow was “I’m not going to try,” because it’s a root fruit relationship.”  You look at the fruit in your life, trace it back to the root and say what is the root that’s producing this fruit?  And so we need to replace ungodly beliefs and inner vows with godly beliefs and godly purposes.  Not another godly vow, because we don’t really want to make a new vow; we want to say, “I purpose by the power of the Holy Spirit to do this.

Sid:   Well, I’ve heard of people that have made vows literally, “ I make a vow to do something and it was an ungodly thing,” it was before they were even a believer and then I’ve heard of them saying, “Well, I break that vow in Jesus Name, but nothing changes.”

Mark:  Well, you know just last week in a seminar I did the lady I was praying with she had battled with rejection and inferiority;  feeling she wasn’t worth anything and she said she went to a seminar recently and got prayed for and they prayed through a specific prayer which happened to be one of these seven prayers.  She said that she felt a level of relief but it wasn’t totally healed.  And I said, “You know what, you prayed one of the seven prayers, let’s pray the other six because you know there’s power when one can put a thousand to flight, two can put ten thousand.  So I don’t suggest anyone pray one prayer, I suggest they bundle them up, pray all seven and if they do they are going to find an intensity of release instead of just a partial release and a partial healing.  They are going to find a complete release and a complete healing.  So in this case here, you know you got to believe I am going to probably fail, so I’m not going to try.  Well if you journal that and say, “Lord what do you want to say to me about my belief I’m going to fail.”  He is going to come back and say, “I will make, I have made your way prosperous.”  And so that’s a godly belief; that’s a railroad track to run on, because belief’s are railroad tracks that govern my life so now I’m going to say fine, my confession is “God has made my way prosperous and therefore my new purpose in the Holy Spirit is I’m going to step out in faith believing that God is with me and believing He is prospering my way.”  So an ungodly belief and an inner vow repented of, “Lord I repent for believing I will fail, I repent for the vow of not trying and instead I replace this with a godly belief that You have made my way prosperous and I choose to step out in faith believing that you are with me.

Sid: You know Mark; I love your section on replacing negative beliefs and renouncing inner vows.  What about in the area of money – finances.  Have you had any testimonies in that arena?

Mark:  Well, probably all of us have our own personal testimony; one ungodly belief would be I’m not going to have financial freedom in my life.  I’m always going to be in want, there will never be enough to make it through.

Sid:  You know someone might not even verbalize that, but there life pattern is they’re always in trouble financially.

Mark:  Exactly, again you look at your fruit and if the life problem, life says I’m in trouble, then there is a root belief behind that.  And in this case the belief is probably “I believe money is secular, I believe money is evil, I believe I can not earn enough,” and so I have to vow something so how about if I just vow that “I’m going to equate poverty and godliness together, that it’s spiritual to be poor and God doesn’t care about money.”  And now I got a rail road track , I’m running my life on an ungodly belief  and so I need to come to God and say, “God what do you believe about money?”  What do you want me to say and believe about money?”  And I might journal; I might write down the question, “Lord, what do you want me to say?” And then I fix my eyes on Jesus, tuned to flow and write down what He says back.  He may give me a scripture verse or He may give me something else.  Here’s one of the things that He’s given me; He said, Mark I have given you the power to make wealth in order that I might confirm the covenant with you.  Now that’s a scripture verse from the Old Testament.  And so I say, “Wow the proof that you are in covenant with me is that You have given me, You have given your children the power to create wealth.”  Well then I am going to have a new purpose in the Holy Spirit.  I’m going to purpose to believe God for the power to make wealth, I am going to believe God for financial prosperity and financial blessing that is what I purpose and I will not give up until that is the reality in my life and that is what I see.  I lend and I do not borrow, and now I have a new railroad track, a track of faith, a godly belief that replaced an ungodly track which was a track of a negative belief.

Sid:  You know, I’ve said this before, but what a difference it would make in someone’s walk with the Lord if they had just known these seven areas of prayer and gotten set free of all these familiar spirits and spirits of infirmity and spirits of addiction and look at all the nonsense they would have avoided in their walk with the Lord.

Mark:  Well, I agree Sid and in my own life God has corrected me and several ungodly beliefs.  I use to say I have a B level brain because when I was in college and high school I got straight B’s all the way through.  So my belief and my confession and my vow was I have a B level brain.  And when I prayed about it God said, Mark don’t ever say that again.  He said now that you have the mind of Christ you have a triple A brain, you are brilliant and you confess that.  Say in the anointing of the Holy Spirit I am brilliant and He said get yourself out of the prison and box of unbiblical beliefs and come and believe what I believe about you.

Sid:  How can two walk together unless they be agreed?  It’s good to agree with God.

Mark:  Amen, amen.

Sid:  Alright Mark let’s go to another area and that has to do with breaking negative words and word curses.

Mark:  Word curses, yeah.  You know a lot of times the Bible says life and death is in the power of the tongue and God spoke things into existence and we speak things into existence and if someone speaks a negative word it can crush our spirits and crush us and we can speak a negative word I just gave you an example.  I spoke a negative word, that I have a B level brain and it crushed my ability to move forward and be all that God wanted for me.  Sometimes people will say, you can’t take that job because that job can’t provide an income for you so even though you’re an artist or musician I think that you should to and take some other job.  Well, that’s a word curse and if you believe it and you let it soak into your spirit and you agree and say yes, I cannot support myself as a musician now this word curse controls you and rips from you your destiny in God.  And that has to be broken in prayer.  Say “I break the power of this word curse in the name of Jesus, it has no authority over me, I command it to fall to the ground and become powerless and I confess the truth that God has spoken to me,” and then you go in prayer and say, “God what is the truth you want me to confess,” and you let Him give you the new truth and then you speak that.

Sid:  And I know that from previous times we’ve had you on the show, is that you find that the discipline of believing God will say something to you and write it down shocks people.  People that have never heard from God all of a sudden start hearing from God.

Mark:  Well, exactly you know when you’re in prayer just quiet yourself down and fix your eyes on Jesus picture Him right there with you.  And say, “Jesus what do you want to say about this belief or this thing.” and then you tune to His voice and we define as spontaneous thoughts that light up on your mind.  And you begin to write that flow of spontaneous thoughts and you’ll end up with a paragraph of God talking to you.  And you bounce it off your spiritual advisors and make sure it’s God and then you run with it. 

Sid:  Now one thing is for sure, everyone unless the Messiah returns quickly, everyone is going to most likely exit their earth suit and goes to Heaven or Hell when they die.  And if we can get some insight into Heaven from a Biblical perspective and experimental perspective that lines up with the Bible there’s a lot of things that will make more sense on this earth.  And my guest, Dean Braxton on May 4^th 2006 went into the hospital and he actually had prolonged cardiac arrest for an hour and forty-five minutes.  He had what the medical term is prolonged cardiac arrest and what is the first thing Dean Braxton that you remember happened to you while this seven days of you literally being out and not knowing what was going on while your wife was interceding and friends for you to live, what ‘s your first memory?

Dean:  Oh, the first memory I had you know is telling somebody right after they took the breathing tube out of my mouth that I’d seen Jesus three times and He told me to go back each one of those times.  As I was telling them, you know that was you know the conversation with this person was so real to me still in the sense that I just felt the power of God all over me still and I remember being at the feet of Jesus.  And just being in His presence, so those were the first things that were going through my mind and no one could tell me, no one could convince me, no one could say that Jesus was not real.  I had believed He was real before, I had that conviction, but there was something else that just happened to me like I know that Jesus is real.  There is no way that you can tell me anything different.

Sid:  Now, could you remember anything beyond what you just said to me at that moment?

Dean:  Oh yes, I can remember in the sense of looking at Jesus and a lot of times when I first came back, I’ll be honest with you  I was telling people that I went to be where the Father and Jesus is.  And people said, “Well you went to Heaven.”  And I said, “You know if that’s Heaven, that’s great but I was where the Father and Jesus is.”  I wasn’t so much looking at so much that it was Heaven, I was where Jesus, my Lord was and so I wanted to be in His presence and I would tell people, “If Heaven doesn’t have Jesus or the Father, you don’t want to be there; you want to be where Jesus and the Father is.”  Matter of a matter of fact I came to understand that inside of us we are longing to really be with Jesus and the Father.  Sometimes we say that we want to go to Heaven were really wanting to be in the presence of Jesus and the Father, that’s what we want.  And so I came to really understand…

Sid:  So, you’re home you’re real home if I were to put it in my words, is not this earth, it’s in the presence of God.

Dean:  It is in the presence of God, it’s a great way of putting it.  My real home is in the presence of God.  Now I can tell you right now, because of experiencing that when I go on praying, I always tell people now I’m going home because I’m in the presence of God.

Sid:  But, wait a second now, you pray, you were born again, you were Spirit Filled, you prayed for the sick you saw them recover, you had words of knowledge, you knew about the presence of God, what’s the difference now?

Dean:  I started looking at it from a Heavenly point of view instead of from an earthly point of view.  A lot of times we are describing things or we’re experiencing things from an earthly point of view and yet each and every one of us have the Holy Spirit inside of us to be able to really experience God from a Heavenly point of view.

Sid:  Do more people, do some people have more of the Holy Spirit than others?

Dean:  For me, I came to understand that we have the fullness of God in us in His fullness.  We don’t have a part of Him, or some of Him, we have a fullness of Him.  You know probably before this happened I would have said that some people have more some people you got to do this you got to do that to get more of God.

Sid:  You have to pray more in tongues, you have to read the Bible more you know those sort of things?

Dean:  Yeah, those sort of things.  But when I was before Jesus and He looked at me, saw himself inside of me, as I tell people I was in.  There was nothing else I had to do, His fullness was in me now I understand how much of Him is in me so when I am ministering and I’m going out there to talk to others, even talking to you right now, I know that Jesus is in me working, I know it. 

Sid:  Okay, well tell me some of your experiences.

Dean:  Well, some of the experiences, you mean in being in Heaven?

Sid:  Yes.

Dean:  Okay, some of the experience of being in Heaven was really experiencing the love of Jesus to the fullness.  I tell people I looked at His feet, His feet loved me, what I mean by that is if all I saw of Jesus was His feet, nothing else but His feet and they looked just like John talks about them, being that goldish brass and just talking about the glory that’s coming off of it but what got me was His feet loved me and if I didn’t see another part of Jesus but just His feet I experienced the fullness of His love for me through His feet.  Now there is a word that I’m using and it’s called experience and I like using that because it wasn’t so much a feeling it was experience I experience everything there. 

Sid:  So when the Bible says God is love, you comprehended what it meant. 

Dean:  Yes.  I comprehended what it meant to its fullness, I looked at His hands and they do have the nail prints I tell people, but if I just saw His hands, his hands love me.  Every part of His being, when I looked at Him He love me, not only did He love me but it was like I was the only one He loved.  Knowing that He loved all of God’s creation you know, but coming to the understanding of how much He loves me so much that it is not taking from anybody else that the love He has for me is directed at me and His fullness and it’s not taking it from anyone else.

Sid:  What about His eyes?

Dean:  When I looked into His eyes they are just like John describes them, that flaming fire but again, I got lost in His eyes, even talking to you I have to hold back because I can stop and look into His eyes even now and get lost in them because the love…

Sid:  You’re provoking me to jealousy!  How can I do that?

Dean:  Well…

Sid:  And by the way the job of the gentile believer in Jesus is to provoke the Jew to jealousy so you’re just living up to your job description, but go ahead.

Dean:  Well, I really believe that we all have the Holy Spirit and He show us how to do that and I believe that there are times when you are praying that literally you are experiencing what I experienced and it may not be in the length that I experienced it but it’s still you’re experiencing it.  When I looked into His eyes and I saw that love that he has for me, just for me it was like no one else in this entire universe existed in the sense of that moment He was looking at me.  And I knew that He loved others, but I knew that the love that He was showing for me was that He had for me; it was like it was created just for me.

Sid:  And yet as you just said, He has that same quantity of love for everyone listening to us.

 Dean:  Correct, correct everyone that’s listening.  You know that’s what’s changed part of my prayer life more than anything else about praying for people.  I go places and I take a list of names and people probably don’t know this and I’ll share it with you.  I’ve got over 16,000 names that I have on a piece of paper that I spend time and praying.  I don’t pray for everyone every day I split them up into different areas and I pray for them as the week goes through.  But I believe that when I’m praying for these people, because of the love that I experienced from God and seeing the love of the Father and seeing the love of Jesus toward me and when I communicated with Jesus and communication there was just a thought going back and forth.  I just tell people that it was like a computer downloading; He communicated to me and I communicated back to Him.  And I remember looking in to His eyes and after I thought about myself I would think about someone else and I would think about the love for them.  I would think about someone else and I would see the love for them, and it was like He only loved them.  That changed my prayer life so that when I pray for people I know how much the Lord loves them, He loves them more than I could even imagine or they can think.  It goes on and on and on.

Sid:  You said that you were kind of surprised at who made Heaven and who missed Heaven of people you knew that had died.

Dean:  Well, and that was a surprise to me because there was certain people that I thought would make it and didn’t make it and there are certain people that I didn’t think would make it and made it.  What I mean by that is that God knows the heart.  He takes it out of our hands.

Sid:  So the heart is more important than the façade, what we see on the outside.

Dean:  Correct, I say that to you because I tell people that about Aunt Barbara was a lady in my life my Dad’s sister and loved her dearly and I would have probably told people over and over that Aunt Barbara did not make it to Heaven, but she was there when I got there, she was there.

Sid:  Who was the first person that greeted you?

Dean:  The first person that besides Jesus, I went to the feet of Jesus was my Grandmother Mary and I tell people a lot of times that the reason I believe my Grandmother Mary greeted me was because she was the only one when I was growing up that I knew that loved Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and she spent a lot of time praying for me and my brothers and my mother and my Dad and I really believe I came into the kingdom because of her prayers.  Well right after I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior my Grandmother died.  So I never really got to communicate with her or talk to her about the faith that I had or the belief that I had.  So when I got there Grandmother Mary she was shiny she had a tear of joy and she had a big smile on her face and she was there to greet me.

Sid:  And she really wanted you to do something when you got back to earth.  We’ll pick up there on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid:  My guest is red hot for the Messiah, you know Mike when you encounter the reality of the demonic and then you’re rescued from that demonic by Jesus, it’s said to whom much is forgiven they love much.  I don’t have any other option, but to be madly in love with Jesus and red hot for the Messiah, how about you Mike Shreve?

Mike:  I feel the same way, I am overwhelmed, I searched so hard for God, I spent month, month after month after month alone isolated from 3:30 in the morning until 5:30 at night trying to find God.  When I found Him I was so overwhelmed with gratitude and all I wanted to do was to spend the rest of my life helping others find the truth.

 Sid:  And that’s why we have this brand new book, literally just right off the press called “Truth Seekers” ten amazing people who found it and its ten people in different areas of the New Age that found Jesus.  And this book is, I mean there are so many areas where Christians have mixture and they’re involved a little in New Age and a little of God and they don’t know the difference.  And then there are so many people in the New Age that are what the title of the book is, they are genuine, sincere, loving, truth seekers but they’re not looking in the right direction and so since my background was New Age and Mike’s was New Age we teamed up to come out with this book which is so mandatory understanding for the end times.  You won’t understand the counterfeit, you won’t understand the authentic until you read this book; and then for that friend of yours that’s involved in the New Age that God himself is going to have cross your path, this book has been written for such a time as this.  For those that don’t know my back ground, I was involved in traditional Judaism and I remember as a young kid, Mike I don’t know if you dealt with this subject to the degree I did, but I was so concerned about what happens after I die.  Did you have that interest or you believed in reincarnation?

Mike:  Well, no that’s what motivated me to drop out of college and begin studying under a guru named Yogi Busian.  I had experienced a drug over dose where I really thought I was going to lose my life, I almost died and when I came out of the experience I was shaken to the core of my being; and I knew I needed to find and answer what goes on in this transition from this world to the next, where we are going?

 Sid:  Well, you see coming from a Jewish background Judaism is L’chaim to life, we talk about life, we talk about life we don’t talk about death; now Judaism, traditional Judaism believes in life after death but my parents never discussed it.  And one day I was home alone and the question popped in my mind; I was only six years old, what happens when you die?  And just as a child I tried to speculate in my mind what would life be like if I ceased to exist because since I didn’t know anything about Heaven I figured when you die you cease to exist. And it became so objectionable that I blocked it from my mind until many years later I got involved in the New Age and I remember the particular branch I was into was called Silva Mind Control.  Where you are taught mental exercise to almost lower the speed of your brain waves until you get to a hypnotic state and then you invite what they called a counselor into your head; what the Bible calls a familiar spirit and this counselor began to tell me things I had no way of knowing.  And I got very excited about it because I thought I could make a lot of money and Hollywood had taught me I could make a lot of money if I made a lot of money and one day a Christians said to me, said to me “Sid, according to your own Jewish scriptures you are involved in spiritual adultery.”  And that was shocking to me and he turned to Deuteronomy the 18^th chapter and he read it to me.  Now I came from a good Jewish background, but did I know this?  No and most of my Jewish friends and most of my Christian friends were involved in these New Age meditation courses.  But this is what God’s word says in Deuteronomy 18 verse 9 to 12.  “You shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations, there shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire.”  You know Mike what I believe that is, that’s just what’s called abortion today is the practice that they had back then, they sacrificed children.  That is what abortion is, “Sacrificing children or one who practices witchcraft or a soothsayer or one who interprets omens or sorcerer or one who condors spells or medium or spiritists or one who calls up the dead.  For all who do these things are abomination,” and you know I didn’t even believe the Bible came from God at that time but just in case what he was saying to me was true I went into neutral gear and I started reading the Bible that he had given me and I got the shock of my life.  A friend of mine who had a counselor that told him the most wonderful things about what would happen in the future, I said.  “What do you see me doing in the future?”  And this counselor started cursing him and he said Sid, that had never happened before and then I got into something called astral-projection and I was afraid to go to asleep at night for fear my spirit would leave my body and go somewhere else and I would be, you know Rod Sterling had nothing on what my imagination was of the horrible fate that was in store for me.  I saw myself being buried alive and I through a series of events that was explained in the book I came to the conclusion there was a demon inside of me and I want it out, but I didn’t know how to get rid of it.  If I went to a rabbi he couldn’t help me I’m Jewish so I wouldn’t go to a pastor or a priest.  A physiatrist, he couldn’t help me; I found that there was no where I could go and so on the worse day of my life,  remember as a young kid I was afraid of death, I was so afraid I didn’t even want to think about it.  I had so much fear Mike that death looked better to me than life and I remember crying out to God and saying, Jesus help!  Because at that time I had been reading the Bible and I had heard that there was stronger power in the Name of Jesus than in this power that was making me not want to live and when I cried out Jesus help.  I went to sleep through sheer exhaustion and when I woke up the greatest peace I had never experienced this peace in the New Age; I had never experienced I had never been on drugs, I had never been an alcoholic so I don’t know what that’s like, but no drug, no alcoholic, No new Age could compare.  When people tell me what is the difference between the peace that people have in the New Age and the peace that God has is the difference between day and night.  It was so tangible, it was so wonderful that if I wanted to worry, if I wanted to fear; that peace overcame worry, that peace overcame fear.  And I then decided I’d really research on who Jesus was and I was 100% convinced that He was the Messiah.  And you know that there are several Jewish people in this book that we’ve just came out with truth seekers.  One is Rafi Cohen; tell me a couple of things that interested you about Rafi Mike.

Mike:  Well, Rafi’s story is experience is amazing, your story is amazing.  I found your chapter one of the most intriguing chapters in the book.  But Rafi from an early age as a child had encounters with spirit beings that would be termed by New Agers as spirit guides.  And while you were testifying I thought to myself that how subtle that counterfeit is because one of the main things the Holy Spirit comes into our life to do is to guide us.  Jesus said that He will lead you and guide you into all truth.  Well there’s something inside of every human being that lets us know that we need a guide through life.  We need a supernatural, supernaturally inspired guidance that will lead us in this world to the next.  And so New Agers reach out through various means to try and find these favorable friendly spirit beings or spirit guides that will help them navigate through the spiritual world.  But that’s forbidden like the scripture you just read in Deuteronomy 18; that is forbidden in scripture.  Why?  Is God denying the legitimate experiences and just preventing us from having an experience of the supernatural because He wants to control us?  No, He is trying to keep us from spiritual deception and I find Rafi Cohen’s story to be absolutely amazing to me.

 Sid:  Well, what I think is so amazing to me, the highlight to me on Rafi’s interview and I know him, he’s a friend of mine now, is that he was headed out with a whole group of New Agers that he was their guru, he was their teacher in a bus and he was looking for Edgar Casey because he thought that Edgar Casey was a Christian; because he had heard the term Christ conciseness which is the opposite of Christianity and he ended up in the parking lot of the 700 Club.  I mean God is so good, he was headed wrong and God rearranged his steps and he became a believer in the Messiah.  Our time has slipped away, but these are some of the most fascinating stories you’ll ever read in your life.  You’ll begin to understand the difference between the authentic supernatural and the counterfeit supernatural.  And for the person God has had cross your path that’s in the New Age, you’ll be able to give them this book and they won’t be able to put it down…