SID: Sid Roth here with Joan Hunter, put yourself in this situation, married 25 years to a pastor, four beautiful daughters, and one day your husband says, I am going to leave you for another man, devastation, hurt, shame, Joan, you handled it, I’ so pleased, but what about those four girls, they’re devastating, I mean you know they are devastated, you hurt for them more than they are hurting, but they are hurting, what did you do? 

JOAN: They didn’t understand, I mean they are just so hurt, and here is their, you know, their father preaching from the pulpit that it is wrong and yet the deception that he had actually been doing it all along. And that was harder than everything else. 

SID: How does someone, curiosity, when someone is involved in sin, how are they preaching that it’s wrong, what is going on inside, is it that the heart is so deceived? 

JOAN: Yes, that is one of the things, and he, it’s selfish, and its just flesh, it is driven by selfish flesh. And one of the things he said in the process of divorce, he said, “What can I say, I have just been a very good actor for all these years.” you know, acting in the pulpit, acting at home, acting in the marriage, and you know and things like that, and you know it was a good act, you know I mean he would have won the academy award with no problem on that one. 

SID: Okay, all right, the girls, tell me about them, what’s going on with them? 

JOAN: Okay, three of them are married now, and one of them is waiting for the best husband in the world, and

SID: Now take me back to right after the devastation. 

JOAN: The, we would, at the house we would just, they would get home from school    and we would just cry you know and that’s all that we could do, I mean we lost, we had to move out of our house and move into a really small house as in comparison to what I could afford and what he could afford, and it was just unbelievable  

SID: Did they, but the way, she also came down with cancer, did they know you had this cancer? 

JOAN: No. 

SID: Was it life-threatening cancer? 

JOAN: It could have been, I mean if you don’t get healed of it, yeah, for sure, but God healed me of it.  

SID: Okay, so what did you do with your children, did you send them to counseling, did you, how do you, Jewish people call it, make them (Jewish word)  

JOAN: We couldn’t send them to the pastor cause that was the Dad you know, and then, even six years ago, even today people, the average person has no idea how to deal with somebody, whether it had been me or whether it had been the children, how do you deal with somebody like that, what can I say to help you? They don’t need counseling from friends, they just need to know your love, tell them that you love them, tell them that you are praying for them, don’t try to correct it.  

SID: Fine and good, but what did you do, I want to know what you did because there are a lot of people watching right now that have problems with their children, maybe not in such a devastating circumstance as Joan had, but you’ve got some real problems between children and parents, what did you do so they can do it?  

JOAN: I tried to fix them, I tried to make them well, I tried to get them healed, I did everything I knew to do, especially having been in the ministry for so long, I did everything to fix my children, and you know and say, now you know better, you are not supposed to do this, well what did that do, it brought rebellion like you have never seen, I mean I’m just like, everything that I said you need to do this or stop doing this, it just caused the adverse effect, and I mean it just kept getting worse and worse and worse, and a lot of the things they were doing they were just doing to cover up their pain, and so I said, God, what am I going to do, I can’t fix them? He goes, dud, you know in so many words, it was just like okay now are you going to let me take care of them? And I said God, I repent for trying to do your job, I know you and the Holy spirit can do a whole lot better than me, I give You my children, I lay them on Your altar, and I said Father I lay charity on Your altar, she’s Yours. And then I’d say Father I lay Spice on Your altar, and I would say Melody, and then Abigail, and I said God, they are Yours. The more I try to do, the more I try to do as a Mother, as a minister, it just caused adverse reaction, I mean really bad adverse reaction, and I gave them to God.

 SID: Joan, that sounds too simple, it sounds too simple. 

JOAN: Well, it’s not a one-time thing, I’ll tell you that, cause then situations happen, and all of a sudden if you start feeling pain in your neck, in your shoulders, more than likely you’ve picked them back up, because if you’ve got a child that weighs say 130, 200 pounds, depending on the child  

SID: But you told me the bottom line, they’re (Hebrew word) today. As Joan was speaking, God began to speak to me, there are going to be such physical healings when we come back, I have been interviewing people that have demonstrated miracles for, close to thirty years now, I have never had so many reports and letters of people being physically healed as I did the last time Joan Hunter was my guest, don’t go away.

SID: You know I can’t think of anything worse, you are married 25 years, you have four beautiful daughters, and then you find out that your husband is having a homosexual affair. Joan Hunter, I mean, you lived it, that is just the most, I mean you have got your children, you’ve got, did you love your husband? 

JOAN: Oh yes, and one of the most difficult things to do was to go through a divorce still loving the person you are divorcing, that was very difficult. And in addition to that, we were pastoring a church. 

SID: That, that make it a lot more complex, how did the church react? 

JOAN: it was very devastating on them too; I mean they had lost their best friend, their pastor, they, you deal with deception, you feel, you know a lot of them feel they just can’t trust a pastor. 

SID: Did he go into counseling to get rid of this problem, or? 

JOAN: No, because he didn’t consider it a problem, he just considered that that was just the way that he was. 

SID: Wait a second now, he’s a pastor, it says in the Bible that those that are homosexual don’t go to Heaven, that’s not my opinion, that’s what the Bible says. 

JOAN: And I totally agree with you on that and, but the common comment is grace. Now I know that God, you know, has a lot of grace, that’s for sure, but I call that, you know I just call it a grace abuser, you know and just trying to push way beyond what is really in the Bible. And you know when you have a situation like that and it comes up, you know it just talks about a variety of things, of reasons that will keep people from Heaven, and, but when you are living in it, and you tend to just ignore that. 

SID: Did you lose your faith in God when this occurred? 

JOAN: Many times people have asked me, “How long did it take you to come back to the Lord after that?” I got saved when I was twelve, I’ve never left. 

SID: And for those that are not familiar with Joan Hunter, her parents are know affectionately as “The Happy Hunters,” Charles and Frances Hunter, they have probably witnessed more miracles that any person in this generation on earth, and Joan, you grew up in that ministry, you witnessed all those miracles, so when you saw all those miracles, why didn’t you just say, “Well, God, just heal my husband?” and why wasn’t he healed? 

JOAN: Well, when you find out you just don’t always just okay forget it, this is over, but after praying and interceding and you know, standing and believing and counseling and different situations, realistically for many years when I thought there was a problem, but then when he realized, or you know, made a decision that that was what he wanted to be, that’s when I released him. 

SID: Okay, you’re divorced, you have four children, I assume the children are pretty devastated too? 

JOAN: At that time yes they were, that was many, many years ago at this point. 

SID: You actually got sick on top of all of that. 

JOAN: I was divorced on Tuesday, which in itself is extremely devastating, after 25 years, you know you are co-dependent, you know you are twenty years old when you get married, you don’t know anything but that, and you know have to go to court, and divorce, and I was sobbing, they almost had to postpone the divorce because I couldn’t even answer yes or no because of the tears, because it just about killed me, and then the following Thursday I was diagnosed with breast cancer in my left breast. 

SID: How can one person handle all of this, how could you Joan? 

JOAN: God, you know I had to make the decision to go, I mean, you know realistically here I was dying in my heart and then I was dying in my body, I had a great opportunity to check out, and the doctor said I was 

SID: What about those four girls? 

JOAN: If it wasn’t for them I know I wouldn’t be here today. 

SID: So, all right, how serious was your cancer? 

JOAN: God healed me very quickly, and because of the healing in my heart, getting divorced, having to, because worry will bring on sickness, unforgiveness will bring on sickness, and different things like, that, and I believe that that’s what opened the door you know to my sickness, and when I walked forgiveness, when I got rid of bitterness, when I got rid of the worry of what is he doing, while I’m at work, what is he doing, who is he with, and those different situations you know you try to trust but you know otherwise, and when I got rid of all of that, within, very, very quickly my breast cancer left. 

SID: I know you can’t answer this but I’m going to put the question to you anyway, what percentage of people that have illness would probably receive their physical healing if their heart was healed?

 JOAN: I would say 100 percent realistically, but about my estimate in the natural, is about 85 percent of all diseases are brought on through some kind of stress, not being able to handle stress correctly, like worry, depression, hopelessness, all that kind of stuff, it, you shut down emotionally, and so your body starts to shut down like the immune system, it just starts to shut down.  

SID: I have to ask this question, how does someone forgive, you know what I have   found, when you love someone and they wound you, in the natural now, your love turns to hurt and then to hate and then even some, to murder, how did you stop that progression or are you still dealing with it? 

JOAN: Well the latter part, I know that God did not call me to a prison ministry so, so   we just stopped way short of there, no, you just want to go “errrrr” you know, because not just for devastation for me, but the effect that it had on the children, like you can mess with me but don’t mess with my children. 

SID: I understand, I got that. 

JOAN: Don’t mess with your daughter, you know, and so that was hardest, that was hard, you know I knew that I would go on, and I would survive, but when I saw the devastation of the children, that was the hardest part for me to forgive. 

SID: Have you had occasion, now it’s how many years ago? 

JOAN: Over six years. 

SID: Okay, in this six years have you had occasion to bump into your ex-husband at a social event?

JOAN: Weddings, yeah, two weddings and 

SID: All right, when you bump into him at a wedding of all things, 

JOAN: Our daughter’s wedding, our daughter is graduating from med school in a couple of months, and 

SID: Okay, now between the two of us, is there some churning that goes on inside, is there some hurt that goes on inside, is there some unforgiveness, unresolved things that goes on inside of you? 

JOAN: I can honestly say no. 

SID: How could you do that? Tell me your secret. 

JOAN: God has just so freed me, He’s healed my heart. 

SID: I mean the Bible says, wait a second, the Bible says we must forgive, we understand that, but to forgive in all of our human side, our emotions, the bubbling over, the blood pressure, the you name it, how do you, how did you do it? 

JOAN: The you name it, it’s the difference between, you know if I were to give you this cup and yet pull it back, the difference to really giving it to God and letting God deal with it, none of us truly forgive, none of us truly deserve forgiveness, but be the grace of God. And unforgiveness is a poison that we drink hoping that the other one will get sick. Now if I held it against him, it wouldn’t affect him at all, it would only start killing me, and when I 

SID: You know that is so profound, would you say that again. 

JOAN: Unforgiveness is the poison that we drink hoping that the other one will get sick, and if I did not forgive him it wouldn’t make any difference to him, I’m the one that would be affected. 

SID: How about you, where do you stand on forgiveness, who has wounded you? I mean if I had x-ray vision and could come right into your home right now, I would see your heart, and when the Bible refers to the heart it’s your spirit, and I would see scars there, how would you like to get rid of those scars? How would you like to be free? Don’t go away, I want to find out what happened to these four daughters that were involved in this. I mean could you picture the shame going on? We’ll be right back after this word.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest, Delores Winder, had what I believe is one of the greatest verifiable miracles that I’ve ever observed. You may wonder what’s over here. This is a neck brace that she lived in. This is a body brace that she lived in. Delores, how long did you live in this?

DELORES: Well I lived in plaster of Paris ones for seven years. They would cut the size open and put straps on it, and then finally they started making plastic, and I lived in plastic ones for another seven and a half years.

SID: What is this bump here on the back?

DELORES: That’s where the bone came through the skin and was stuck out, and I had to wear a patch on that to keep it from happening.

SID: Okay. Some of you perhaps have never heard of Kathryn Kuhlman. I was privileged as a brand new Jewish believer in the Messiah to see her in the auditoriums, and she had such a relationship with the Holy Spirit that she lived for that relationship. And the greatest miracles I ever saw in my life happened there. But the greatest miracle that I know of that happened under her ministry is my guest, Delores Winder. And I want to take you back in time, and I want you to see this miracle taking place right now. Take a look.

Delores (video): I was in body cast for 14 years. Four fusions: one through the front, the other three through the back, two cordotomies to kill the pain. So this side of my body was numb from here down, this side from here down. Two weeks before I was healed my husband and I made my funeral arrangements.

SID: What you’re about ready to have unwind is going to build your belief in God, your belief in the miraculous. Delores, for those that don’t understand, you had a disease that your bones were becoming brittle way before their time.

DELORES: Yes.

SID: And when someone reaches a point that they’re about ready to die, they’re terminal and their pain is unbearable, they had a surgery back then, which they don’t even do today.

DELORES: No.

SID: It’s such a horrific surgery. What was it and what did they do?

DELORES: It was called percutaneous cordotomy where they go into the base of the brain through behind the ear and they burn out the nerve centers so you can never feel again in the part of the body that they burn the nerve centers out.

SID: Now you had it on both sides.

DELORES: Yes.

SID: Which meant that you had no feeling from where, your waist down?

DELORES: Well on my right side I had no feeling from my neck down, the left side from my waist down.

SID: And there is no reversal for this surgery.

DELORES: No.

SID: Never in the history of the world has it ever been reversed until that night when she went to the Kathryn Kuhlman meeting. Now Delores loved God, but did not believe in miracles for today. She felt they ceased. And so when the mother of the housekeeper turned on this Kathryn Kuhlman show, what did you say to her?

DELORES: Turn it off.

SID: Why?

DELORES: Because I came from Pennsylvania. I was always told Kathryn Kuhlman was a kook, said she healed people and that wasn’t true, and I believed it.

SID: And what did the housekeeper’s mother say to you?

DELORES: She said to me, “What is it you’re keeping your door closed to God?” And I had to respond because at that point I was waiting for an answer from God for my youngest son.

SID: You see, she had a young son, how old was he, Chris?

DELORES: He was 14.

SID: He was 14 and she was wondering what was going to happen to him when she died, because, well tell me about the orthopedic doctor that was a friend of yours when he told you, you were going to die. What did he say?

DELORES: Well when he came into the room they wanted to take me into the hospital one more time to see if there was anything they missed or anything they could still do, or anything they could learn to help somebody else. And when they did all this checking and had a new neurosurgeon in to look at me, and he said, “It’s time to go.” The tissues in my back were shredding even, where that bone was through the skin and they couldn’t even patch it. And he came in and sat down and I said, “What’s wrong?” And he said, “Delores, there’s nothing more we can do.” And he said, “I would give anything in this world to make you well, and there’s nothing to be done.”

SID: And she heard the voice of the Holy Spirit say to her, “Kathryn Kuhlman”. And she knew somehow that if she went to the Kathryn Kuhlman meeting she would find out, she’d have some peace of mind of what would happen to her son.

DELORES: That’s right.

SID: You literally said, you had chutzpah; you said to God, what did you say to Him?

DELORES: I told him, “I will not die until You show me how You’re going to take care of Chris.” And He gave him to us. He’s adopted. And He gave him to us after I was in my first body cast and then in a brace for several years.

SID: So did Chris ever see you normal?

DELORES: No, no, he never did. He never did.

SID: Okay. So you know you have to go to this meeting of this woman you don’t care for.

DELORES: But you know, I could go because it was a Methodist Spirit, Holy Spirit Conference, and I grew up Methodist, and I knew they weren’t going to let her do anything out of order.

SID: Okay. So you get in the car to go to this conference. You get out, but you can’t get out of the car yourself. So what do you do?

DELORES: Well Gail always put me in and took me out. And she couldn’t get me out because the pain, the shoulder was deteriorated also, both wrists and all my fingers.

SID: What was going on with your organs?

DELORES: Heart and lungs were very bad, and my kidneys, they started to close off and that was what was killing me. And this man stepped up and said, “Let me help.” He reached in and picked me up and took me in. Gail parked the car and came in, and he took us to seats. And Kathryn Kuhlman came out on stage and I thought, dear God, I can’t stand to look at her. And the Lord said, “You don’t need to look at her. Just listen.” And so I closed my eyes and I was holding my head like this, and she said, “Tonight I’m going to introduce you to the Holy Spirit.” Now she’s talking to Methodist pastors and lay leaders.

SID: It wasn’t a healing service.

DELORES: No, it was not a healing service. In fact, they made her send her people home because they couldn’t have healing. And so I thought, I know the Holy Spirit. It’s the Spirit of God. And she said, “If you call Him it you don’t know Him.” And suddenly something happened to me and I had my eyes closed, and I saw a little Kodak slide picture of Chris and a man on our front porch. And the man turned and looked at me and said, “Tell Chris he need never walk in the house alone, to tell him to take Jesus’ hand and walk in and I’ll walk in with him. But my name is Holy Spirit.”

SID: And now you felt you had your answer.

DELORES: I had my answer. I was ready to go home.

SID: She was ready to die. But God wasn’t ready for her to die. I know you’re not going to go away. We’ll be right back after this word.

SID: My guest, John McTernan, says that he sees a direct connection between 9/11, and the U.S., and the way the U.S. handles Israel. What is that?

JOHN: Well Sid, I just want to refresh your viewers memories that we’re talking about 50 or 60 or 70 same day events, or things happening around the same day regarding the United States pressuring Israel. So 9/11 is not just isolated.

SID: In other words, within 24 hours usually, or even the exact moment, when something bad happens to America, since 1991, John has documented there’s a direct correlation with our handling of Israel. So, continue.

JOHN: So just prior to 9/11, within a week prior to 9/11, and the information I’m relaying to you comes from information that the White House released and picked up by the national newspapers. The President’s formulated policy towards Israel was a two state policy, in that on September 13th, Secretary of State (at that time) Powell was going to notify the Saudi Arabian Ambassador that we were going to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state, and that was going to be announced at the general assembly of the United Nations on September 23rd, 2001. So 9/11 occurred right at the very time we were going to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state, and 9/11 put the brakes on it. And we, then, became at war with the same terrorists. I don’t see much difference between the Palestinian terrorists and Osama bin-Laden. I seen the same bedfellows there. We are at war now with the same enemies that Israel is at war with – literally we are at war.

SID: You know, in your book, I think it is absolutely amazing, as you trace two countries that are similar: the United States of America, and Russia, the former Soviet Union, and how one country went against the Jew and what happened to them, and the other country blessed the Jew and what happened to them. Would you explain?

JOHN: Sid, it’s really quite an analogy, where the Jews were being driven out of Russia simply because they were Jewish. The Russians were doing every conceivable thing to drive them out. The only country in the world – now we’re talking starting in 1881, Sid – the only country in the world who would accept them was the United States. All of Europe closed the doors, whoever else closed the doors. The United States opens the door wide, and however many Jews came out of Russia, we accepted. Eventually it was somewhere between 2 or 3 million Jews fled Russia and came to the United States. But in my book, I document, starting in 1881, God began to raise us up as a world power.

SID: So you can pinpoint it?

JOHN: You can pinpoint it to the year, Sid. To the very year. Isn’t that amazing? As we accepted the Jews into our country, God began to raise us up as a world power, and I show it, almost year by year, this parallel.

SID: Now what happened to Russia when they did these things?

JOHN: Sid, I want to speak briefly on what’s called the May Laws of 1883. And it was draconian laws that the Russian government, backed by the Russian Orthodox Church, applied on the Jewish people. For example, they were only allowed to live in a small section of Russia. If they were outside that, they lost their property, they lost their business, they lost their land – at gunpoint – and they were driven into this section. They lived in small, little enclaves. Their businesses would be stolen from them. Their kids couldn’t go to school. They couldn’t worship Judaism. They lived in terror. And then the pogroms started, which is organized assaults on the Jewish people. And I believe that when you look at what the Russian people did to the Jewish people, that communism was nothing more than the May Laws of 1883 applied to all of Russia. Now, the Russian Orthodox Church couldn’t worship. Like they were doing to the Jews, it hit the Russian Orthodox Church.

SID: It’s like the law of sowing and reaping. As they were evil to the Jews, they reaped evil.

JOHN: One generation later, it came on them. If you can think of Russia and Stalin and Lenin, how they would uproot whole bunches of people and move them, send them to Siberia, that’s exactly what they did to the Jewish people, Sid. Their land, you couldn’t own land in Russia. Land was stolen from people. The Jewish people, their land was stolen from them. So I look at communism, one aspect of it, is punishment. You bless the Jew, America was blessed. You curse the Jew, the Russians got communism. And communism was nothing more than the May Laws of 1883 applied to the whole nation.

SID: Well, here we are now, the United States of America. As far as I’m concerned, one of the greatest countries the world has ever known. But John, you say in your book we’re at a crossroads. What do you mean?

JOHN: Sid, the American government, and specifically the Presidency, and I’m not getting into Democrat or Republican because it was the same under the Democrats as it is under Republicans, we are interfering with God’s prophetic plan, like we had mentioned before about Gaza. And God, in His mercy, is trying to bring this to our attention. He’s trying to wake the church, Sid, because it’s really on our shoulders here. We need power from the church, we need intercession from the church, we need prayer from the church.

SID: Alright, what’s going to happen if we continue fostering a two state solution in the Middle East, to the United States?

JOHN: God will break our back, Sid. It’ll either be… I don’t know exactly how He’s going to do it, there’s several ways that are indicated by these warning judgments, but we will no longer be a world power. He will force us to stop interfering with Israel. It’s a matter of how severe the judgment will fall, Sid. There’s no doubt our back will be broken here. We can no longer interfere.

SID: One minute – look in the camera, talk to President Bush. What would you say to him?

JOHN: President Bush, please stop interfering with the affairs of Israel. Bless Israel. Stand with Israel to support Israel if it’s attacked by Ahmadinejad, for example, of Iran. But no longer interfere with the integrity of the nation of Israel.

SID: Do you believe that there is teeth behind that threat of Iran?

JOHN: There is no doubt about it Sid, absolutely no doubt about it. They will attack when the have the capability of doing it. No doubt.

SID: So what would you advise President Bush to do right now, in reference to Iran?

JOHN: Well he’s already told Iran that if they attack Israel that we will defend Israel. The President has said that, March of last year, which is a tremendous thing to say. No other nation in the world would dare say that. That’s the dichotomy in the United States.

SID: Listen, here’s what I believe. I believe we’re buying time. And I want as much time as possible here in the United States. I want this to be the land of the brave and the land of the free. I want it to be a place for Jewish people to be free. I’m Jewish. I also happen to be a Russian Jew, so I’m very grateful to the United States of America. But I say this to you, that one day, according to the Bible, every Jew will end up in Israel. But the problem is, the safest place in the world is not the United States, for a Jew. The safest place in the world is not Israel, for a Jew. There’s only one safe place for a Jew, and that is intimacy with God. There’s only one way to have intimacy with God. There’s only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. There is only one Messiah, not a Messiah for the Jews and a Messiah for the Gentiles. There’s only one Covenant. Jewish people already have the correct Covenant. It’s called the New Covenant. It’s found in Jeremiah 31:31. Gentiles are grafted in to the new Jewish Covenant found in Jeremiah 31:31. When someone tells God they’re sorry for their sins, (that’s called repentance), and asks God to forgive them in the name of the Jewish Messiah, Jesus – Yeshua – and believes that He separated their sins from them and took them on Himself, and boldly proclaims “Yeshua’s my Messiah and Lord”, then you are under the New Covenant, you have intimacy with God, and there could not be a safer place than in the arms of Yeshua.