Sid: Hello. Why? Why would a loving God send people created in His image to an eternal Hell? As a matter of fact, an eternal Hell with torment and suffering 24/7, eternally. Why would He do this? Why would He even create a Hell? Bill, why?

Bill: Well first of all, God doesn’t send anybody to Hell. People send themselves to Hell by the rejection of the directions He gives for them how to stay out of Hell. They reject how he tells them to stay out. But Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. It wasn’t meant for man to go to.

Sid: So it was actually, it was created for a purpose, but not for humans to go there.

Bill: Right. And what people really behind their thoughts are, how can a loving God send a good person? Because everybody thinks they’re good. But three reasons that won’t work, and just to give one quickly. An analogy will help here. If you went and found a home, the most expensive home in the country and knocked on their door and you said, “Excuse me, I’m moving in with you because I’m a good person,” what would you think the people would say? No, right? You wouldn’t expect them to let you to move in because you have no relationship with them. Yet people go through their whole life, they have nothing to do with God. They denied Jesus as the son of God, which he said is the only way to His house. Then at the end of their life and they come and knock on his door and they say, “Excuse me, I’m moving in with you because I’m a good person.” Good has nothing to do with it. They have no relationship with Him. It’s not based on being good. It’s based on a relationship. So that’s unreasonable to expect to live in someone’s house when you don’t know them, you see. So you have to have a relationship with God.

Sid: Okay. Annette, you told me at 3:23 in the morning, how did you know it was 3:23, by the way?

Annette: I looked at our clock. That was the first thing I did. It was right beside the bed.

Sid: What did you hear?

Annette: I heard screams coming from our living room and I proceeded down the hallway, and I found my husband in a state that I have never, ever seen him in, Sid. Anyone who knows Bill, knows his character, his nature is very calm, conservative, steady as he goes. He’s been that way all of his life. So to see your husband traumatized in a fetal position on our living room floor was really, really shocking.

Sid: What was your first though?

Annette: I thought he was dying. I thought I needed to call emergency services. And he began to scream out.

Bill: Pray. Pray for me. The Lord is taking me to Hell.

Annette: And when he said, I felt relief inside, which I know that was God giving me some kind of peace in that crisis.

Sid: I know. But why would you even believe that?

Annette: Because I knew him. I knew him from the years we were dating, from all of his clients, friends that I met. I saw his character over and over again as we were dating. I believed him immediately. Now keep in mind we had only been married one year. But I still believed him right away.

Sid: Well Bill?

Bill: You know, Sid, to explain a little bit more so people understand, too. Everybody is not God’s child. People think we’re all God’s children. You’re not His child. He’s your creator but He’s not your Father until you invite in Jesus. So people going to Hell, He’s not their Father. Because He loves everyone, He gives man a choice, a free will to choose. And man chooses to reject the way He said to stay out of Hell. They choose on their own. They say, “I don’t believe you, God. I don’t believe your work.” And they send themselves to Hell. But another reason is because Hebrews 12:29 says, “He’s a consuming fire.” What that means is if I stuck my hand into the fire to retrieve something and the fire burned me, I wouldn’t say, “Why did that fire burn me? That was mean of that fire.” I wouldn’t say that, would I? Because the nature of the fire is to burn. Well God’s nature is to consume sin. So sinful man and a holy God are not compatible, just like the fire and your hand are not compatible. So you can’t show up in God’s presence the way we are. We would be consumed.

Sid: But how does God feel about sending humans created in His image to a burning Hell? Of course, as you explained He’s not sending them. They’re sending themselves. He’s in the process of rescuing them.

Annette: He will.

Bill: Right. He wept. When he saw people falling down this tunnel we came out he wept when he saw people going into Hell. He doesn’t want to see one person. He loves everyone. He gave his life. That’s why he gave his life, to keep people out of Hell. To say this loving God died a horrible death to keep people out. And he wept when he saw people going, because it was by their own choice they were sending themselves to Hell.

Sid: Okay. We’ve done an investigation of Bill. We understand that he was a good Christian. We have references from former retired chief of police, his pastor, etc. We know that he was a good Christian. We know that he shared Jesus with people from time to time. But Annette, you know him better than anyone. How has he changed as a result of this experience?

Annette: Well number one, he left his career because he had such an urgency inside now to tell people about Jesus, about the love of God, and to warn people not to go to this place. He has such an urgency now, Sid, and a compassion for people. He doesn’t want to see one person go there. It’s changed our life.

Sid: Bill, I have to tell you, I believe in a literal Hell. I’ve never seen it, obviously. I believe in eternal torment. But somehow, until someone reads your material and sees the DVD, the urgency isn’t there. What is the difference between the way you were and the way you are right now?

Bill: When you understand how severe Hell is you’ll be much more appreciative of what God saved you from. You’ll have more of a healthy reverential fear of God and you’ll have this passion for the lost, because that’s what we’re to do, is share the good news with people so they understand. It’s like I said, sharing information so they can make an informed decision.

Sid: Annette, how did this change you?

Annette: The same way. I mean, I left, my career was very successful as well. And I’d share with people sometimes. But now I want to take every opportunity. And it’s not to beat people over the head with the Bible. It’s just to share the love of God and so that maybe one more person won’t go to this place. And it makes you get rid of your fears and your hang-ups, and just go after God and do His will.

Bill: It gives you a better overall eternal perspective, what’s really important.

Sid: You talk about the experience of the love of God.

Bill: Yes.

Sid: Tell me about that.

Bill: He shared with me that piece of his heart. I couldn’t stand, Sid, feeling what he felt, the pain he feels for seeing people going to Hell. And I said, “Lord, stop. I can’t even feel even a piece of what you feel.” And he allowed me to just experience a little bit of his heart, and he wept over just one person going to Hell.

Sid: How about you? Would you weep over one person that you know is going to Hell?

Bill: Yes. That’s why we’ve gone and traveled. And it doesn’t matter. I’m not here to convince people to believe my experience. I’m just here as a sign post to point them to at least check out what the Word of God has to say and please avoid this place at all costs.

Sid: Now how do you even survive today with the trauma you went through?

Bill: I have no problems whatsoever. God removed all that from me. I just have the passion that He left me, because I still remember the sights of Hell. That will never leave me, seeing people burning and the torment they feel for all eternity, never to get out of there. If I can influence one person to stay out of here, any uncomfortableness that I feel is worth it all.

Sid: Well you know something? If there was no Hell, and there is, if there wasn’t eternal torment, and there is, if there wasn’t eternal suffering, and there is, just to know the love of God in this life, I would not, I don’t know how I existed without knowing the love of God. I don’t know I existed without knowing that God was interested in me as an individual. And then to find out that God is as interested in every human as He was in me, and they don’t even realize it, and they have to live in this world without having an intimate relationship with the living God, and the price has already been paid. And Jesus died for your sins, and if you repent of your sins and tell him you’re sorry, he will wash them away and live inside of you. It’s so wonderful. It is so wonderful. You know, even if there wasn’t, I think who would want to miss that?

Bill: I know. Why would you want to take a chance with your eternal soul and gamble that, and miss the love of God anyway?

My guest is red hot for the Messiah, he kind of had an unfair advantage and that was he had a mother that had a visitation from Jesus, a nice Jewish mother that had a visitation from Jesus and how could she help but worship all the time?  And so he was raised in that type of an atmosphere and you know as I was listening to your teaching, Renny on worship; which I am so amazed at what happens because it’s not just that people have an open heaven as they listen to your teaching.  They will learn how to have an open heaven twenty-four seven in their own homes, in their cars, where ever they are.  But as I was listening to it you made an interesting point, and something I did years ago and then I got away from it.  And it has to do with singing; you were talking about singing over people.  I use to have a healing line and I would lay hands on people and I accidently found one day that I started singing rather than speaking my prayer.  Singing over each person and as I sang over each person the anointing got stronger, it doesn’t make sense to me; do you have any idea why?

Renny:  I do, I do, I do because I tell you something, because the glory of God is in the sound.  The glory of eternity is in our voice print.  When we begin to worship, God begins to work for our worship on the earth.  And that’s why…what we begin to sing is what God begins to do.  That’s the power, that’s the beauty of it.  If we speak the word we know he will do it.  But the glory of it is when you rest in the word and sing it; and he’ll do it just as if you said it because really you are still saying it; you’re just saying it in a different way. 

Sid:  Yeah, but what I found when I sang it it was stronger; that’s what I don’t understand; it was stronger than when I said it.

Renny:  Because when you sing it Sid, every time you sing; you see when you speak that’s not worship, you’re declaring, that’s a whole different tone.  But now when you sing, it is coming from the atmosphere of worship which means, it’s coming from the glory realm and not a faith realm.  So that’s why…

Sid:  Now what does that mean, it’s coming from the glory realm and not a faith realm?

Renny:  Okay let me give you an example; there are three realms of the supernatural.  There is a faith realm, there’s the realm of the anointing, and then there’s the glory of God.  The glory of God is the atmosphere of God, the manifest presence of God.  Faith, faith is the substance of heaven on earth; that’s why it’s called substance.  Faith connects us to the world beyond.  Okay the anointing is not for the beyond, the anointing is for here.   And so when we’re singing and we’re worshipping we’re singing from the heavens.  Were not singing to get there, were singing from that position because, you know you look at it from a redemptive point of view.  The Bible says were risen with Christ and were seated, so technically speaking we are actually singing from the heavens.

Sid:  Well, you teach about we can be in two places at one time, which I never heard until you talked about that. 

Renny:  Oh yeah, were in two places at once Sid, and also this is really what’s so powerful about it is that when we begin to sing, and the Glory of God begins to come forth.  God just begins to do things and it’s something I believe we are going to see more and more and more of when we really just begin to worship God.  Because in heaven, in heaven there’s nothing, oh thank you Jesus, in heaven there’s nothing not done.  So when you are worshipping and you said that you were singing over people, you were just worshipping in the absoluteness of the fact that everything is done, done, done because anything that’s not done cannot be in harmony.  Everything that’s done is in harmony and so that’s why the Bible says by whose strips you are and then Peter said, by those strips you were.  So you’re singing in now from eternity now; so it literally has a weight of glory on it; so Sid I’m not surprised when you said that you started to sing it that it got stronger yet because it was coming from heaven Hallelujah.

Sid:  Explain this to me, people like say, I’m picking on Kathryn Kaulman this week, but people like Kathryn Kaulman, she seemed to have certain songs, music that she’d have Dino or Jimmy sing and it was sometimes the same songs.  Why would she do that versus diversity; having lots of different songs? 

Renny:  Because there are some…, Sid I’m so glad that you asked this question, because I believe God’s going to put keys in people’s lives.  There are some songs that forever will work because it’s a forever affirmation of who God is and what He is.  So there are some songs you can sing in the next fifty years it will be ever be as powerful, because the song can carry that power.  Like let me give you some songs up front.  When I say them to you it will bring a lot to your mind.  Let me give you some of those power songs that really carries the majesty of God.  For example now, “How Great Thou Art;” that’s never died because of the power of it, you know.  And the new way I’ve heard people sing it today is, “How Great Is Our God!”  Notice it’s a declaration to the atmosphere to the earth, to the environment, how great, how powerful, how awesome, how magnificent is our God.  So those songs carry that kind of power. 

Sid:  So in a church service a worship leader has to be sensitive to the exact song that God wants, not the one that sounds the best.

Renny:  Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly any song that speaks about you evokes the flesh, that’s why worship is a total divorce from you, because it’s not you it’s coming from God and it’s of God.  And so that’s something today that some of our songs need to be really changed.  Because in reality were singing partly about, which has nothing to do with you, it’s all about Him.  Like, let me give you another song let me give you some songs that we know that really can carry the power of God.  Oh, for example this is a song that everybody knows you know.  Our God is an Awesome God. Notice what we are saying, Sid, He’s an awesome God.  He who reigns, He rules see those kind of songs will create the atmosphere for God to show that He is awesome.  That He is powerful, because that’s what we are singing, that He is.  And so when you sing that it creates the atmosphere for you to release your faith for God to do anything.  But some of the songs we sing today are self centered and the self centered songs takes you inward, takes you to you and not to God and there not powerful.  That’s the problem that we have now and so today, in a lot of our worship leaders, I love every worship leader but sometime we are singing songs to sooth our soul and were not speaking to the majesty and the power and the magnificence of an ever living God.

Sid:  And the worse extreme of what you’re describing is famous singers in Hollywood or on television that were called by God to be psalmists and lead great corporate worship.  They literally sold their gift for the things of this world. 

Renny:  Oh, that’s so sad, and to think about that God gave them a sound.

Sid:  Take Elvis, tell me about Elvis.

Renny:  Now Elvis was an incredible man, I tell you why I say Elvis was incredible; do you know that once upon a time we went to Memphis and we went to his house to see his mansion and we learned something about his music.  They said every time Elvis went into the studio he was searching for a new sound.  Isn’t that interesting?  He was searching for a new sound, but they always said that he always preferred the spiritual songs.  They said that he was like a different man when he sung them and so I put it down, a lot of them sold out, you know why Sid?  And I hate to say this, but I just got to say this is because the church back then could not take a new sound.

Sid:  That’s interesting.

Renny:  So what happened was, so the enemy created a market for their voice and so that’s what we’re seeing today.  Some of the greatest people we know out there right now, the sound was put in them when they were in church.

Sid:  Let’s just take a moment cause our time is slipping away.  What is the basic message of your teaching, “Matter Doesn’t Matter?”

Renny:  Oh my goodness, oh my God so much…okay matter from a scientific point of view is constantly changing, it’s constantly changing.  That’s why when the presence of God, oh my goodness, I’m just hearing the word of the Lord, when the presence of God comes through worship the reason why you can get miracles of all kinds, creative miracles, healing, whatever is because matter doesn’t matter.  So a crippled leg can be made straight, a back can be made straight because when the glory of God is present, matter doesn’t matter; it sets you free.  It lets you know that your condition is not permanent.  It is subject to change because matter doesn’t matter.

Sid:  You know on tomorrow’s broadcast you got a revelation just the other day, a prophetic word from heaven about the currency war that is going to happen in the world.  I’d like you to talk about that.  And if you enjoy my conversation with Dr. Renny McLean you will love our television show because Dr. McLean has been a guest for two weeks on my TV show.  You can go to our web to find out where we are on television or actually see the show on demand.  It’s Sid Roth.org, WWW.Sid Roth.org.  Renny is it your favorite thing to worship God?

Renny:  Yes.  It’s my favorite thing Sid because you can’t closer to God than worship then through worship.  And that’s when I really feel the greatness of God is through worship.  I mean I feel the infusion of His life and His power.  In fact even as I’m talking right now, there is somebody being healed and being touched and being set free; because their realizing right now, nothing matters to you more now than the presence of God.  And every foreign power is subject to and it bows its knee to the presence of God.  You know Sid, I so recommend the people to really get into that revelation.

Sid:  The thing that stops people from having intimacy with God, the thing that stops people from manifesting their healing, the thing that stops people from even fulfilling their destiny is they have issues in their life that maybe came from a trauma they had at an early age and they don’t even remember the trauma.  It could even come generationally and they don’t have a clue and year after year after year they feel like there’s something missing yet their born again, yet their filled with the Spirit so they say, I think I have everything.  Well, I know I have some answers for you this week, I’m interviewing Peter Horrobin and Peter for over twenty years has been studying how people can be free in every area of their life.  And there is an area that I just don’t hear that much talk about, freedom from trauma.  There are a lot of people, Peter Horrobin that have been in military and they come back and they can’t even talk to their family about some of the trauma that they went through and they have problems the rest of their life.  There are other people that have traumas in fact in your seminar you were talking about someone that even in the womb, one of your director’s when before they were even born, tell me about the trauma that had occurred to him.

Peter:  Yeah his name is Serall and he is Indian, and when he was in the womb and was probably about three months from being born, his mother saw a man killed right in front of her; shot dead.  And she was absolutely terrified thinking that this was going to happen to her as well.  And a child in the womb picks up all the things that the mother is going through and he was traumatized in the womb.  Now he did not come to us with stories and say I was traumatized in the womb and I need prayer.  He came to us because he was actually a pastor, a really good man, had a good ministry, but he said I can’t move forward.  I’m crippled with fear on the inside and I’m reluctant to be able to do the things I know that God is telling me to do.  The fear was controlling him.  And so when our team prayed with him and were asking the Lord to show where the root was, we were right back into this experience and this man began to cry as a little baby as he was set free from the trauma he picked up from his mother.  What happens in these cases, satan is no respecter of persons and Jesus came to set captives free and many people are in captivity to the enemy and the Lord’s prayers has delivered us from the evil one; and Serall got delivered from the evil one and it changed radically.  Up until that point he had a congregation which was quite big, two and a half thousand.  But in the next year his congregation went right through the roof, he finished up a year later with twelve and a half thousand in his congregation.  And the restriction, the fear that was controlling him and preventing him from moving forward had gone, completely set free.

Sid:  You know what I’m reminded of, you teach about Jesus said He came to bind up the broken hearted and in the Hebrew, what is broken hearted mean?

Peter:  Well, when in Isaiah 61 it says the sovereign Lord would bind up or heal the broken hearted.  The Hebrew word brokenhearted means actually shattered into separate pieces.  It is the same word that was used when Moses threw down the tablets of stone and they were shattered into separate pieces.  Do you remember that?

Sid:  Yes.

Peter:  And that’s what Jesus does, He binds up those who have been shattered by the experiences of life.  One of the story that has really thrilled us and amazed us and has blessed many people was the story just being published is “Linda.”  And Linda, when she was twenty-three years of age, she fell off a cliff on a night hike with her youth group in Sydney, Australia.  She fell on jagged rocks below and she broke her back in four places.  She was helicopter out ten hours later and three years down the line, doctors could do no more for her.  She’s in constant pain, she’s on medication for the pain and the side effects of the medication, she could hardly walk twenty five yards is as far as she could walk without having to stop for the pain to subside.  She said who’s going to want to marry me, I’m never going to be able to have children and she began to plan her own suicide.  And in that stage of her life we met her at a medical conference in Australia because she had been a nurse.  She was now pensioned off on a life time disability pension.  The doctors in Australia said that she could never be healed and so they put her on a lifetime pension.  And as we began to explain to her how about trauma breaks us on the inside our body reflects the pain that’s still there.  She began to understand that when she fell off that cliff it wasn’t just the body that was traumatized but we are spirit, soul and body.  We are a person inside our body as it were and the doctors did everything they could for the body but Jesus heals the soul and the spirit.  And when we prayed for her for that inter-brokenness to be restored as prophesized by Isaiah in Isaiah 61 we watched as the Spirit of God came upon her and actually began to manipulate her whole body.  Her body was being stretched out as if the spine was being stretched and put back into place.  At the end of that evening she stood up and she was completely healed.  Today she is not only healed, she went back to the doctors and said she will not need my pension anymore.  She was the first person to ever come off her lifetime disability pension in Australia. 

Sid:  That may be the solution to some of our problems in the United States.

Peter:  Well, I believe passionately that is the case.  Actually she went back to work as a district nurse in the outback of Australia and she fell in love with the son of one of the people that she was nursing.  And she is now married and she has got her own children and it is an amazing story.  Jesus has given her back the years that we say the locust has eaten, satan robbed her but Jesus has healed her.  Not just healed her so that she is existing, she is living an abundant life and fulfilled as a mother as well; amazing story.

Sid:  Do you find many people that have had trauma in military that get set free?  Can you give me an example?

Peter:  Yes, I first learned about this when I was ministering to one of our team up here in the United Kingdom who had been, he was a very old man when we prayed for him.  But he had been a real gunner in the Second World War; and he had had many terrible experiences in flying in those bombers and having to shoot the pilots of the attack air craft that were coming upon him.  And he had many horrendous experiences and he locked them all away; and he really struggled with nightmares of these things that would come up at night and he could never get it off his mind until Jesus went right back into those experiences that he had.  And I know today that there are many people who come out of the military and in the First World War they talk about being shell shocked and the experiences that people have in Viet Nam or whether it’s been Afghanistan or where they are traumatized by what they have experienced.  And I believe that there are many many of the military today that could be completely healed by Jesus completely set free if they were able to come to Him not just as their Savior so that when they die they are going to go to Heaven, but that the Kingdom authority of Him who is the healer come right into our lives.  Deal with the traumas that they’ve gone through; it may be painful but it is only actually walk through the reality of what happen with the one that can heal us.  That we can be set free, we can be healed on the inside.  That inner brokenness can be restored, we can be delivered of this infirmity and the pain and we can be given our lives back.  I’ve seen it happen to so many people, I know that it can happen to many many more.

Sid:   Peter, I don’t here many people talking about trauma, why is that?

Peter:  Maybe it’s something that God is only really opening up to the body today to understand, but where ever we go I ask people to put their hands up as to what traumas they have gone through.  You’ll find that in any congregation we have 100 people there you will find 75 of them at least have had either car accidents, they’ve fallen, they’ve down stairs, they have fallen off horses, they have had military experiences, they have been abused.

Sid:  Do you find many people have had sexual trauma before marriage?

Peter:  Sexual trauma affecting their marriage.  Yes.  I’ll never forget a young couple who they’ve been married now for three or four years but they’d never been able to fully consummate their marriage.  They loved each other very much and when they got married they longed to complete their relationship, but the marriage bed became a place of terrible fear for the lady.  And as we began to pray with her she began to unpack the memories that she buried.  She knew that there was something bad back there that had to do with sex and getting into bed brought those memories right…the fear that associated with those memories right to the surface.  But she didn’t actually know what it was and again this was sexual abuse where as a young girl five or six where she was terribly hurt in awful sexual abuse and so deep inside that broken part of her associated sexual relationships with fear and pain.  So it’s no wonder that when she got into bed with her husband she could not consummate marriage because she was unhealed in this area of her life.  She loved Jesus, she loved serving Him, but she was unhealed and it was only when He healed these things that she was then able to fully consummate the marriage and then go on to have a normal marriage life. 

Sid:  You find that many people have these ungodly soul ties?

Peter:  Yes, you are touching into another big subject.

Sid:  I tell you what, we are out of time.

Sid:  This subject this week is an area that most churches don’t talk about and just about every problem in your life if you can get rid of the demonic spirit you can get victory.  I have Mel Bond on the telephone, I’m interviewing him on his new book, “Understanding Your Worst Enemy” and see Mel was taught by the Lord these truths many years ago.  And I have learned things that have been so beneficial as I read his book.  Most Christians are defeated in many areas because they failed to understand the invisible realm.  And you must learn how to recognize the demon that’s coming against you, how to cast it out.  You’ve got to develop your spiritual senses and activate the Gift of Discernment and all your senses will be activated in the invisible world.  And this book literally will equip you for that and you’ll find out the spirits behind every problem in your life.  And you’ll begin to understand how these demons think and how they operate.  And as far as I’m concerned the best part of this book, Mel Bond is if anyone is flirting with any degree of sin, once they realize the door that their opening they won’t want to open it any more.  I think when someone reads your book they’re going to start walking in more holiness than they ever had in their life.  Well, I mean they would have to be stupid to want to open doors to the demonic, would you agree Mel?

Mel:  Absolutely.

Sid:  And on yesterday’s broadcast you brought out such an important principal.  You were talking about…you were dealing with your natural senses to find out if the demons that you commanded to leave had left.  And you found out that you were dealing in the wrong arena. 

Mel:  Absolutely, first of all maybe I need to just emphasize a little bit or give a little bit of a teaching in what it means to rebuke the enemy or rebuke demons.  Basically, when you use the name of Jesus demons are leaving.  Then another train of thought is the Word of God is Jesus.  In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us as many other scriptures validate that Jesus is the Word of God.  And so sometimes we can just think on the Word of God and it causes the enemy to leave; so that’s what it means to rebuke the enemy.  But back on this percentage where Jesus told me when these demons were in my bedroom and it was like I knew without a shadow of doubt that I would die because of the horrible sounds that these demons were making and it was entering into my mind, entering into my life and they wouldn’t leave.  And the Lord told me that, He says I want you to know that, you know that demons understand if there’s 1% of you that don’t mind them being there that they can stay.  And how true is that with every human being.

Sid:  Yeah, yes no sensible Christian would want a demon to stay, but give me an example of how through really lack of knowledge they let a demon stay.

Mel:  Absolutely, but just in everyday life that we are all tempted and say for instance that a person has a desires for alcohol that, if they don’t totally make up their mind 100% that I’m not going to have anything to do with this, if there’s 1% still there then that knawels at them.  What is that?  That’s a demon and so the only way that we can get rid of these things, if you want to be free from any kind of a problem, a fault, which is demons then you will have to be 100%.  That’s the reason why the Lord said in Jeremiah chapter twenty-nine, was it in verse 13 I think He says when you will call on me with your whole heart and if we have 1% of our life that doesn’t mind this temptation being in our life, it stays.  Am I not right Sid?

Sid:  You’re absolutely correct and that was the thing that you drove home so much in the book.

Mel:  And I think if they’ll get a hold of the book it will really help them go into greater depths and do more than we could possibly do on the radio without spending hours and hours.

Sid:  What about something like, which is really big with the internet and in every home and that’s pornography.  Use an example of pornography.  

Mel:  It’s the same thing, that if we don’t, if human beings don’t make it up in their mind that 100% I’m not going to have anything to do with that, that temptation will be there.  They’ve got to somehow, if they have to get rid of the internet, even Jesus said it’s much better to enter into Heaven than to have one arm and in other words to have both of your arms and go to heaven, it is better to lose an arm.  That is the reason it says if your eye offends you, pluck it out; it’s better to have…to go to Heaven with no eyes then to have both eyes and go to hell.  And so sometimes I think that we have to put our self in positions to where that we don’t have those temptations.  And so if we can’t handle the internet, if we can’t handle a computer, get rid of it it’s better than having a computer and going to hell.

Sid:  Now, what about something as subtle as spending three or four hours every night watching television.  Maybe good things sports, news, but even when you watch these quote good things sports, news things slip in.  Is there a danger there?  What’s your opinion?

Mel:  In my book I talk about one particular chapter is the not so obvious manifestation of Satan that it’s the little foxes that spoil the vines.  The Bible teaches us that and sometimes people they think, well these things are really not significant and I can still do them.  And I think that one of the lies the devil and his kingdom promote is, oh you can still do this and be a Christian.  You can still have jealousy, un-forgiveness, gossip, ideal words, you can have rebellion and you can have stubbornness and you can still have some of these things and maybe even lust.  You can have these things and still be a Christian and you know that’s true.  You can drink, you can smoke, you can do all these things and still be a Christian, but you can’t be everything that God wants you to be.  And the Lord showed me one particular time, in fact I’ve seen this many times, I’ve seen it with ministries, I’ve seen it with people that they could not be everything that God wanted them to be, they couldn’t have everything that God wanted them to have because the them holding on to this, I’m going to call it they’re pet demon, because it’s with them all the time.  And maybe that is being a little foolish using that word, but he’s with them all the time.  First Samuel 15:23 the Bible says, “Rebellion is equal to witchcraft, stubbornness is equal to idolatry.  And so the Lord has shown me and I remember one particular time this person that was involved in ministry, and I saw in the spirit there was a spirit wrapped around their ankle, and the Lord told me, He said that this is the illustration I’m giving you for this person.  It’s like I’ve ordained them, again this is an illustration “I’ve ordained them to be the best track runner in the world.  But because of the fact that they had this weight around their ankle not only can they not run as fast as they would like to run, but they’re off balance.  And so not only are they not the best, but they’re the worst.  And so these un-obvious demonic forces that come against us that we need to understand that they’re hindering us from having everything God wants us to have and from being everything God wants us to be. 

Sid:  Mel, you talk a lot about words, but there was one statement I picked up that would have been worth the book, just for this statement and that is you said “Give people words that they don’t deserve by operating in the same grace that God gave you with other people.”

Mel:  Absolutely, again that’s walking in God’s unconditional love, 1^st John 4:8 and verse 16; the Bible says that God is love and so when we start, you know we can talk about scriptural things and quote verses and so forth and that makes us sound spiritual, it makes us sound godly but when we walk in God’s love, that makes us like God.

Sid:  You know when I was in Israel I saw a street preacher and he was talking with such anger that he’d make me a non-Christian if I listened to him long enough.  Could that have been a demonic spirit even though he was saying good things?

Mel:  What’d Jesus say?  He says the traditions of man have made my power of non-affect and I’ve seen that many times in church circles where people are involved in religious traditions and usually when they have that, when they are being motivated by those sort of spirits, they are very evil people.  The same kind of people that hung Jesus on the cross, they were people that were bound in religion and not bound in the true things of God.

Sid:  Opps our time is slipping away.

Sid:   My guest is red hot for the Messiah, his name is Glenn Arekion and Glenn has a brand new book that I believe is mandatory for every free believer in the world.  It’s called “The Power of Praying in Tongues” unleashing the supernatural dimension within you; it’s brand new, but it will literally light a fire under you.  And I know something about you; I know you need a fire lit.  Tell me a bit Glenn about George Washington Carver.

Glenn:  George Washington Carver was a great man of God who believed in prayer and as he began to pray he called it, communicating with my Father.

Sid:  You know you don’t hear about that side of him.  You hear about all the inventions, but you don’t hear about the source of the inventions.

Glenn:  That’s the reason why he had all the inventions.  He had so many recipes and so many use for the peanut just by knowing the voice of God; by just communicating and having and intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit.  And so he had so many inventions.  That’s what supernatural languages will do to you.  It will open you up the creativity of God because when you are praying in that supernatural language you’re tapping into the mind of God.  And God’s mind is loaded with ideas.  God’s mind, God knows God’s got more ways to deliver you out of your problems than sickness got to keep you the problem.  So when we begin to tap into that supernatural language just like George Washington Carver, God will give us all kinds of ways to get us blessed, to get us prosperous to get us out of any situation that we may find our self in.

Sid:  Give me your definition of speaking in a supernatural language.

Glenn: Well, it is a supernatural utterance by the Holy Spirit in a language never learned by the person doing the speaking.  It is coming from your spirit man and you’ve never learned that language but it is a language of the Holy Spirit that’s coming out from your spirit.  Just tongues is the language of the supernatural realm.  Just like French is the language of France. 

Sid:  Why is it that there’s a whole group of Christians that say speaking in supernatural languages was necessary in the first church but is not necessary today?  How did that happen?  Where did we go astray?

Glenn:   Well, this is some those people who call themselves sensationists that they don’t believe that tongues is for us today, they don’t believe that the gifts of the spirit are for us today that it all passed away with the apostles.  But if that was the case then they should never have been called the gifts of the spirit.  They should have been called the gifts of the apostles.  And the last time I checked we are still living in the church age.  The gifts and especially tongues or supernatural language is for us in the church age.  Jesus said that the believer will speak in new tongues.  So there is no record in the Bible that tongues ceased.  Eventually one day it will cease, but not today as long as the church age is still here it is for us today; as long as the Holy Spirit is here it is for us today.

Sid:  You know, I’ll tell you a funny story.  I know a man that I just gave a copy of your book “The Power of Praying Tongues” to.  And he…I said why don’t you speak in supernatural languages today?  He said, well to tell you the truth I don’t know anything about it.  So that’s why I gave him your book and then I said, I said what do you do in church without the miracles or anything?  And he says well to tell you the truth, I sit on my hands.  And then I said to him well isn’t that boring?  And he said to me, well to tell you the truth I’m comfortable doing this.  I mean it’s really pretty sad, he literally…I’m reminded of the scripture, my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge at God’s word.

Glenn:  That is so true; and were walking away from power just having like a social club because we don’t want to tap into the supernatural language of tongues because we don’t want to offend anybody.  But there’s power available.  I mean life would become a great adventure; church will become a great adventure; ministry will become a great adventure when it is led and directed by the Holy Spirit.  And if we are led by the Holy Spirit of God, see to me praying in the Spirit is the beginning of being led by the Spirit of God. 

Sid:  Now, let me read a quote of yours; “As long as the devil can keep you from speaking in supernatural languages he will keep you away from miracles.”

Glenn:  Yes, that is correct because tongues is the entrance to the supernatural.  If he can keep you away from that, he can keep you away from all other miracles.   I mean there are people that would tell us today that tongues is not for us today.  Well, if the devil had his way, tongues would not have been for any day.  But it began on the day of Pentecost and is still for us today.

Sid:  Well, I’ll go one step further, with what anyone that has even a limited understanding of end time Bible prophecy and reads the newspaper today must recognize we’re in the last days. 

Glenn:  Yes.

Sid:  And if tongues was so important in the beginning of the church and so important in these great moves of God’s Spirit throughout the history of the church, I don’t see how we’re going to be able to even survive in these last days without using that supernatural language.

Glenn:  That’s right.  It is the key to effective last day living.  That’s what Jude tells us, he tells us, but you beloved, he’s has already mentioned to us that there will be a time of apostasy; he said in verse 18 Jude, he told you that the apostles told you that there would mockers in the last days who would walk after their own ungodly lusts.  But you beloved that’s us Christians in the last days, we are living in the last of the last days; building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost.  So he was telling us that last day’s effective living come by praying in the Holy Ghost; especially in the world in which we live right now.  There is so much fear if you look at the news media.  If you look at what’s going on in the world today; all the news media, all the negative news of what can happen to America.  How the economy is so bad.  Jesus even, himself said that in the last days, men will look at things that are happening and they would have fear in their hearts.

Sid:  You know you brought something out that I’ve never seen before in your brand new book from Acts: 6:4 which says but we will give ourselves continually to prayer and the ministry of the Word.

Glenn:  Yes.

Sid:  But, it was not a prayer, explain that.

Glenn:  Well, the little Greek texts says that we will give ourselves continually to the prayer, meaning a definite article.  Meaning that the people who said the prayer it was something that was already known among the disciples.  And in the book of Acts in the early church, the prayer was praying in the Spirit.  The prayer was praying in tongues.  That’s the reason why it said that we would not neglect that, we would give ourselves, we will dedicate ourselves to praying in the Spirit and that’s what happens to Peter after James was beheaded.  The scripture said that the church began to pray without ceasing, the prayer was made without ceasing.

Sid:  And somehow the devil has lifted the prayer from even spirit filled Christians, let alone those who think that God doesn’t do this anymore.  He’s literally high jacked the prayer.

Glenn:  But, I’ll tell you what happens when this prayer has been high jacked.  The scripture says that when the church began go pray without ceasing, God sent an angel.  That’s what praying in a supernatural language will do.  It will activate angels; it will create angelic activities on our behalf.  And we need angelic activities on our behalf in the last days.  Especially with all this threat and all this stuff coming against us.  We need the protection of angels and one of the ways that we can activate angels is by praying in the supernatural language.  That’s why Paul says though I speak with tongues of men, and tongues of angels.  So tongues will release and activate angels to work on our behalf.

Sid:  I like it when you needed to buy a church building, it became available but you had no money, briefly explain that.

Glenn:  Well, I just moved here from London, England.  I had just moved to Louisville Kentucky and I did not know any building.  I was holding service, but I just came here in the hotel and then they came and told me that the hotel would be demolished so I would have to find myself another venue for church.  And I did not know where to go and I did not have any money what so ever.  So I just began to, I locked myself in my prayer room.  I called it my holy room and I began to and nothing goes on in that room except prayer.  So I just began to pray in tongues and I stayed in that room for three days and just prayed in that supernatural language.  Saying to God that I don’t know anybody here.  I don’t have any money, I can’t buy the building, you are going to have to give me a building.  So I spent three days praying in that supernatural language of tongues.  And on the third day I got a phone call from a friend of mine that says, hey Glenn there’s a building available do you want to go and have a look at it.  So I said sure.  So I went to have a look at it and while I was driving there and I heard the Lord in my spirit, that’s your building.  So well, thank you Lord and I got there and it was a brand new building about two or three years old.  And there was everything in that building; there’s nothing to be done in that building; chairs open, everything in that building.  I said to that man, well how much is that building?  He said well, you know it should go for a million dollars but for you we will give it to you for $500,000.  Now he could have told me any price, would make no difference to me because I have no money whatsoever.  He said well, if you want that building just come over on Thursday and just sign for it and bring 20% down for the deposit.  I said sure, I’ll do that.  So I went back home and again, cause I had no money whatsoever, I needed to bring for deposit $100,000.  I didn’t have any $100,000, so I went back to my prayer room and I just prayed and prayed in the spirit, prayed in tongues, prayed in tongues, and prayed in tongues and prayed in tongues and I heard the Lord say just give him $5,000.

Sid:  And the amazing thing is they took the $5,000 on a million dollar building although it was available for a half a million.  I’m going to tell you something, you won’t survive if you are not mentored in praying in tongues.  We will teach you in this book, “The Power of Praying in Tongues,” how to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, the reasons to motivate you if you already are; to pray in tongues and this special CD called “Your Personal Trainer for the Supernatural.