Sid:  My guest is red hot for the Messiah; he walks in what is known as uncommon favor.  And as a matter of fact his name is Brian Lake and I’m speaking to him at his home in Needmore, Pennsylvania.  And it’s kind of ironic that the name of your city that you’re in is Needmore Brian because that’s not what’s going on in your life.

Brian:  Definitely not and yeah, I am from Needmore, Pennsylvania and I always joke about it; the fact that Needmore is so small that we always thought Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego was my shack, your shack and a bungalow.

Sid:  Ha-ha, but you walk in uncommon favor and when you were in your early twenties without a college degree you were obedient and in the act of giving that you believe triggered this uncommon favor.

Brian:  Yeah absolutely, you know when I was a young boy, I met the Lord, I was probably ten or twelve years old and my uncle actually introduced me to the Lord in a way.  One of the scriptures that he shared with me was that “all things are possible to those who believe.”  And that was kind of engrained into me and I believed that as a young boy and has stuck with me all my life.  And through that I developed a relationship with the King of Kings; just an intimate relationship and I really believe having an intimate relationship with the King can transform anybody’s life.

Sid:  Well, I’m really driving towards the time that must have been very big sacrifice on your part and you gave $500.

Brian:  Yeah, I was a young boy probably… well I was actually in my teens and as I did that God spoke to me because of intimate relationship in that time in the secret place of seeking Him I would spend time with Him and He spoke to me.  There was a local family in my home town and they were in need and He spoke to me and told me to give them $500.  And for a young man that was a lot of money, but I was obedient to that.  And to me that was a sacrificial seed, but I obedient and I did that, I sowed that seed and today I’m still reaping the harvest from that seed in business.  Because when I sowed that seed I actually won an award a National award through FFA, it was an Eastern Star Farm award which is a very large award in the FFA.  They took us overseas to different countries, it was rewarded.

Sid:  FFA is Future Farmers of America?

Brian:  Farmers of America, yeah.   I grew up, as a young boy I grew up on a farm.  You know, I love animals, grew up even raising pigs, so I kind of come from the pigpen to the pulpit.

Sid:    Ha-ha.

Brian:  So I have a lot of experience in farming background.

Sid:  But you know without a college degree today you give advice to mega million dollar corporation heads.  They come to you for advice. How do you have advice for them?

Brian:  Well, it is all founded on that relationship that I have with the King.  Because like you said, I didn’t have a college background.  Actually I didn’t even like school, I didn’t have any desire to go to school; I was kind of a C & D’s student.   You know I kind of struggled through school because I kind of knew what I wanted to do when I got out of school and I didn’t apply myself very well; but even in school I could always sense the presence of God with me everywhere I went.  There was even times, well for instance, in high school during the Prom one time there was a party that all the kids were going to afterwards, so I decided I would go just to go along with it.  We were there, this was out in the middle of a field and we were there and kids were drinking a doing all of this kind of stuff.  And I heard God speak to me very clearly and the only way that I could describe it was an audible voice inside of me and it just resounded.  He said, “Get out of there,” and I heard Him speak it twice, “Get out of there.”  And it kind of shook me from the inside out and the friends that came with me, I said, “Hey, we got to get out of here.”  And so at that moment, I said, “Let’s go,” and so we left and five minutes later after we left the police raided the place.  So throughout my life you know God has always been there overshadowing me, leading me and guiding me in so many different ways.

Sid:  You know, I have a friend and this was many years ago, he a business man and you might have heard of him Norvel Hayes, and at that time he had a twelve corporations that were million dollar corporations which was a number of years ago which was high, highly unusual at that time.  And he said, “The secret to his success was he was just grateful to God and He just wanted intimacy with Him” and I see something similar going on with you.

Brian:  Absolutely, because you know I love ministry, I love business, but I love Him more.  You know I could throw everything away right now, but I want that secret place.  I want that intimate relationship with Him.

Sid:  But most people go for the intimate relationship with Him for what they can get.

Brian:  Yeah.

Sid:  That bothers me; it’s almost as if we’re not aware that we should go to him for who He is, not for what He’s going to do for us.

Brian:  Right, that’s right.  So many people you know seek the things, what they can give Him.  You know I asked God, I said, “God what do you want from me, do you want me to preach the gospel, what do you want me to do?”  And He says, “Brian, the only thing I want I just want your heart.”  So you know, I say “God, You don’t want me to preach the gospel?”  He says, “No, that’s not what I mean.”  He says, “I need you to go tell the people that I just want they’re hearts.”  And if He has our heart, he has everything else and you know the Bible says to “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and then all these things will be added unto you.”  The problem is Sid that so many people are out seeking after the wealth, they’re seeking after you know their healing or whatever it may be.

Sid:  When we pray we have a list. 

Brian:  Yes, absolutely.

Sid:  I mean we come in with an agenda.

Brian:  Right.

Sid:  How do you get someone out of that stinking thinking?

Brian:  Well, for me it was, you know I’ve had experience in the secret place of the Most High and it is the place, the experience the encounter of Him transforms you, transforms your thinking and it positions you in alignment with heaven.  And there’s an understanding that comes through that, but you got to get the people into that secret place first, seeking Him.

Sid:  I’ve got a copy of your fairly new book it’s called “Romancing the King” I love the title and the subtitle is “Devine Romance between God and Man.”  This is almost a how to manual on romancing the King.  Is there a story connected to how you happen to write this book?

Brian:  Well, it’s my life story is what it is on how I found my relationship with the King and how I was successful in every area and it was all founded and based on that relationship with the King.  So many people know about God but really don’t know Him.  Because we get born again and we camp out you know on the door steps of the King’s palace and we think, “Well, we’re saved now, this is great”, but they don’t realize that there is a whole palace to explore and there’s the inner chamber of the Kings palace, the secret place of the Most High.  And people don’t you know it is just like with my wife, when I married her it came with responsibility to get to know her and when we get born again it comes with the responsibility to get to know the King of kings.  So you know with my wife, you know I know what she likes, I know the food that she likes, I know what makes her smile, what makes her happy, what makes her sad.  When we get to know Jesus, get born again, we got to send those years getting to know Him, find out what makes Him happy, what grieves Him, even what’s His favorite color Sid?  And I asked Him one time actually, I said, “God what is Your favorite color?”  And He spoke to me and told me, and we can get that intimate with Him, and I’m sure…

Sid:  Well, what is His favorite color?  Mine is blue.

Brian:  Well, that’s what I tell people, I say how many people, when I go preach different places, I say “How many people want to know what God’s favorite color is?”  And I tell them with this response, “You’ve got to get to know Him first.”

Sid:  Awe, that’s not fair, but okay.  You know this week is Purim week and you used the book of Esther a lot in “Romancing the King.”  What’s the tie in with the book of Esther?

Brian:  Well, the book of Esther, I love the story of Esther, because Esther was someone special and she found favor with the King.  And you know in Chapter 2 verse 13 in the Bible in the Book of Esther it talks about that Esther was given whatever clothing or jewelry that she wanted to enhance her beauty, actually all the people there all the young maidens was able to choose whatever she wanted.  But there was one special person Esther, she went into the Kings treasury and began to pick out what she wanted, but she did not pick what all the other young ladies wanted; she picked the advice of the Kings chamberlain which was the advice, what did he like.  We got to come to a place to find out what the King likes, not what we like; and so many times we’re wanting what we want, but do we really know what He wants?  And I’ve been in services and I’ve seen people crying, you know God’s touching people tears running down their face and God spoke to me and He said Brian, you see those people with tears running down their face?  And I said “Yes Lord.”  He said, “That’s Me coming down and touching their heart,” but He spoke to me and said “How many times do people purpose to touch My heart.”  So we’re coming into service asking God you know to come down to us, when we should be going to service you know to lift our hearts up to Him to worship Him, to glorify Him.

Sid:  If more people understood that could you imagine how much of His presence would be in a service and how much of a move of the supernatural?

Brian:  Absolutely it would be wonderful because we could you know it’s not also about just being in that service.  You know we have our churches, there’s a lot of churches where you know what I call is like a duplex where we take that house and divide it up and we’re saying now God you can have this corner of the room, You stay here you know don’t get out of the box.

Sid:   I’ll tell you what, we’re running out of time and this is so important you want to really understand romancing the King.

Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with L.A. Marzulli. L.A., I am so intrigued with these people that are being interviewed that say they’ve been abducted. Tell me about this doctor you spoke to, Dr. Lear, who started out as a skeptic of this whole phenomena. He’s a surgeon. Tell me about him.

L.A.: Lear was asked by a friend to go in and look at this patient who claimed to have some sort of an implant or whatever, something under his skin. At first, Lear figured it was probably a wire or maybe a bee-bee from a childhood accident or something. But when he found out that the person was claiming to have been abducted by so-called aliens, he did an about face and walked out of the room. Didn’t want anything to do with the stuff. And in some ways who could blame him. So he goes in reluctantly. He’s sort of persuaded to come back. He looks at the X-rays. Yes, there seems to be something there. So he decides to operate and he goes in. And to his absolute astonishment, what he discovers is a very small metallic implant, but over this implant, and this is obviously a magnification, I’ll use my fist, is a secretion, a membrane of some sort. And he takes his scalpel and he tries to cut this membrane and he can’t cut it. He then takes a forceps and goes in and yanks this thing out, and it comes out, sometimes, he’s done 16 of these things since. But it comes out in two or three pieces. What he’s discovered is when you take these things out and you put them in a Petri dish with the patient’s blood and you just leave them and the pieces lets say are separated by a half an inch or an inch, come back 24, 48 hours later, the pieces have tried to assemble themselves. How is that possible? These implants are giving out a clock speed of a frequency, which we believe is a saw tooth, which means it’s a computer wave. It’s a clock speed at 300 gigahertz, which is a hundred times faster than the fastest computer we have on the planet. Inside these things are carbon nano tubes not found in nature and other compartments. We have no idea what they’re doing. But I asked Lear, I said, “In your professional opinion, what do you think this implant is?” And in sort of a gruff, I’ll do my best imitation, “Well they’re changing the person’s DNA.” But that’s what he believes.

Sid: Did you hear that? It’s literally going to change a person’s DNA. This sounds way beyond robots and way beyond any science fiction things I’ve ever seen. What is the source, in your opinion? Are there really flying saucers?

L.A.: Well there’s two paradigms a person can embrace. One is the extra terrestrial hypothesis that these are entities from the Pleiadian star system or Zeta Reticular, or pick your place, and they’re coming here. They’re our overlords. I call it the coming great deception, that they created all life on this planet. They genetically manipulated early man. They started our civilizations. Now they’re back at this critical juncture in human history to usher mankind into a time of peace, prosperity and knowledge. That’s one.

Sid: Okay the science fiction people go that way.

L.A.: Right. The new agers go that way.

Sid: Alright. What’s your opinion?

L.A. I believe that they’re inter-dimensional beings. They are highly malevolent. They are pernicious. They are evil. They have an agenda. It goes back to what we read in the Book of Genesis, Genesis 6, the sons of God, the Elohim, the fallen angels saw the daughters of men and chose for them wives, and the hybrid was a Nephilim. Isn’t it interesting that Yeshua says that, “In the days of Noah, so will be when the son of man returns.” Why is he signaling the days of Noah to us? Why his he pointing at the days of Noah? Because something happened there that is unlike any other time in all history, and that is the presence of the fallen angels openly presenting themselves on the earth. And I think we’re moving into that time.

Sid: You’ve investigated, I don’t think there’s ever been a time in Planet Earth there’s been so many different supernatural phenomena. And most people have not seen the evil or the good, the God or the demonic. So they’re setting themselves up for a big, big fall. L.A., another thing that intrigues me immensely is the discoveries of Torah codes. Explain briefly what that is.

L.A.: What briefly, this is Torah Code 101. If we take the Book of Genesis written in Hebrew and you were to do an equidistant letter sequence, we can do this by hand, and you go every 50 letters, it will spell “Torah”.

Sid: That’s amazing.

L.A.: Yeah, it is.

Sid: Do you know, I interviewed a man that did Bible codes, and I said, show me. Look my name up. And I was shocked. Do you know they not only found my name, the name of “It’s Supernatural”, but they found the name of my wife, her middle name. She has a unique middle name. I’ve never even heard of anyone beyond her mother that had that name. It’s thoroughly, I mean that was in the Bible codes. I am not a skeptic of these things. They recently found President Obama in the Bible codes. What did the find?

L.A.: They did. If you go to Ezekiel 38, Chapter. 38.

Sid: Ezekiel 38?

L.A.: Ezekiel 38.

Sid: I’ve reviewed the headlines.

L.A.: Absolutely, definitely. I’d love to talk about that. And you can do this without a computer. So you don’t need a computer to do this. You can just go to Ezekiel 38. If you can read the Hebrew it spells “Obama”.

Sid: In that passage of all the things that seem to be happening right now, President Obama’s name was there?

L.A.: Yes. That’s incredibly bizarre. He’s the president right now, obviously, and we see in front of us these nations. Remember, this prophecy has laid dormant collecting dust for 2600 years. And all of a sudden in the age that we are in, we see Israel regathered back from the four corners of the earth, reestablishing its ancient homeland. They are truly a nation living without walls or gates, any of that stuff, and they’re basically dwelling in safety.

Sid: You know what’s so amazing? Is these Bible codes even have predicted the future and they’ve come true. I’ll tell you what, when we come back we’ll talk about it. Don’t go away.

Sid:  I believe that one of the greatest meanings and my guest right now is Paul Keith Davis and he would agree with it is a release of resurrection power, power that would restore limbs, restore dead people to life; power that cancer could not stand against.  As a matter of fact, Paul Keith I understand in 1990 you were watching a video about William Branham that really changed your paradigm for things.

Paul Keith:  It did you know coming from a background that that was, what little church we had was very conservative, I had never even heard that there was a thing called the latter reign revival.  I had never heard of the voice of healing and I had certainly never heard to a man named William Branham, but a video was given to me and I watched this service from the 1950’s, and I saw something that I had never seen before.  And while I was watching it the Lord said, “This is your destiny and the destiny of your generation.  And I watched this and he stood before people and began to reveal secrets of their hearts that He had no way of knowing.

Sid:  I have to tell you, I have seen and I don’t know the video you saw but I’ve been out to Oral Roberts University their library they had a video of Branham and I see those gifts operate, and I say “God we need them now.”  I mean I am passionate to what to move in that realm myself or at least someone on planet earth move in those realms.

Paul Keith:  And of course the Biblical paradigm that we have from that is from the Lord Jesus Himself met the woman at the well and you know He could have used any method at His disposal to win this woman but he chose to tell her everything she ever did.  And I’m of the belief that He didn’t just tell her that she had had five husbands, I believe He started when she was a young girl and walked her through her life bringing her to the very point that she stood at  that moment and He wakened in her.  That’s the thing that I’m after for our generation is that encounter by weaving His way through all of the shame and discouragement and failure that she’d obviously had experienced He touched a seed of destiny that was imparted to her before the foundation of the world.  And I believe what we’re called to do today is exactly the same thing, that there are many out there that are steeped in failure and shame, but as they begin to see this measure of the supernatural demonstrated it’s going to awaken a seed of destiny a DNA that was put in them before the foundation of the world.  And we’re going to see some of the most radical born again Spirit filled Warriors that the word has ever seen literally, and that’s what I’m after.

Sid:  Now in 1990 when you were watching that video God spoke to you what did He say?

Paul Keith:  What He said was, was that this you know I hate to even apply myself because I’m not a shadow of that man of God but He said, “That’s your destiny and that of your generation.”

Sid:  Well, when is it coming?  I mean I can hardly wait?

Paul Keith:  Ha-ha, I’m praying “Now Lord, now is good.”

Sid:  Ha-ha.

Paul Keith:  Because we’re not going to do it merely by empty words, it’s going to have to be a demonstration.

Sid:  For those that never saw Branham minister describe what they might have seen.

Paul Keith:  I have talked to numerous people that were in his meetings, dozens and dozens of people and there were two things that characterized those meetings that I believe that we will see in this generation at this very hour.  The first thing was that there was a Divine presence that came and there is no substitute for the presence of God.  And we can call it the Greek word Parousia, they called it back in the 1950’s and early 60s the pillar of fire, but you could even call it the pillar of cloud.  The Bible says Moses and Aaron spoke to the Lord, Samuel spoke to him and the back to them from the pillar of cloud; we find that in Psalm 99, and so that presence was reintroduced on a level that had never been seen in 2000 years of church history since the Apostle Paul and the earlier disciples.  Paul met that pillar of fire presence on the road to Damascus. The 120 met the pillar of fire in the upper room, and that’s lacking today. We don’t see that kind of manifest presence demonstrated right now, but we must.  And I believe the ten years and more that we’ve been in severe pruning and I believe many people have been in the wilderness through a pruning process that is severe.  And I believe that it has been for the purpose of walking in that kind of a presence.  I remember T.L. Osborn sharing the testimony of being in a William Branham meeting in 1947 in Portland, Oregon, and he said that night that he had his second vision of the Lord Jesus as he watched that little country bumpkin preacher and I say that with respect because I’m one too.  But he’s just a young, a man with an eighth grade education trying to walk his way through a sermon and all of a sudden Jesus showed up and he said, “Miracles began to happen on a level that he had never imagined”, and here is the good news, T.L. Osborn said that when that happened he said, I had my second vision of Jesus step into that man and 10,000 voices boomed from heaven saying “You can do that, you can do that.”

Sid:  I mean the way he knew what was wrong with someone, he knew their names, he knew what streets they lived on.  I mean it wouldn’t take a whole lot when a total stranger reads your mail like that to believe when he says “And you are going to be healed right now, to be healed.”

Paul Keith:  You know it says in 1 Corinthians 14 “When He revealed the secrets of the heart will they not fall down on their faces and say surely God is in this place.”  And the interesting thing Sid about that is that I don’t believe what he ministered in was just a word of knowledge, I know that a lot of people said he had a profound word of knowledge.  I believe it goes beyond that, I believe what we saw demonstrated in his day, and what we must contend for our day was Hebrews 4:12 where the living Word comes down in a manifested way, manifesting Himself to a body of people discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart.  That was what he was doing, because the very next verse, verse 13 of chapter four, it says “For all things are open and laid bare before the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.”  All the secrets, all the details of people’s lives are laid bare, open and you’re able to tap into that, not for the purpose of empty demonstration, but in order to let them know that God knows all about their situation and it takes faith to another level.  The people I’ve interviewed that were in those meetings said “That when that presence came the ceiling prevailed that anything was possible, anything was possible.”  You wouldn’t have been surprised at anything that happened, if limbs grew out, if dead bodies were raised off of gurneys you would not have been surprised when that level of heavenly atmosphere came into the room.

Sid:  Let me take you back to 2003 when spiritual scales literally came off of your eyes and you could see what was going on in the invisible world in Albany, Oregon.  You told us on yesterday’s broadcast you saw angels, and you asked the Lord “What kind of angels?”  And He said, “Angels that gather.”  What is specific purpose of an angel that gathers?

Paul Keith:  I think their purpose is twofold primarily, I don’t want to limit them to any two things, but two things that I’ve seen so far; I have to admit when I first saw them I’m thinking okay they’re going to co-labor with us to bring in lost souls.  And that certainly is part of the mandate, but if you’ll notice very carefully, look very closely at Matthew 13 and verse 41 we find them identified out of the word of the Lord Jesus Himself, He says “The Son of Man will send forth His angels that gather out of His Kingdom all stumbling blocks and everything offensive.”  Well, I have discovered I should say, that I’m thinking “Well, I have a lot of stumbling blocks in front of me that I want removed so that I can move forward in ministry.”  But I discovered they started working in me and putting their finger on things that needed to be dealt with in my own life nothing flagrant, you know just little attitudes, or little things that weren’t necessarily consistent perfectly with God.  I looked a little closer at the scripture and it said, “I will remove out of My kingdom,” the kingdom of Heaven is within, and I realized that right now they have been working to remove the stumbling blocks within us.  And when I saw that revelation the Lord said to me, “If you let me remove the stumbling blocks within you I’ll remove the ones before you.”  And I really believe the Lord has been restraining us so that He can do in us what is necessary so that we can have the kind of impact on our generation that he want to do.  And so I found out also that there’s a harvesting of promises, harvesting of commissions, it’s not just about bringing in…

Sid:  What do you mean by harvesting of promises?

Paul Keith:  I believe that there are promises; prophetic promises that go back even to the Old Testament patriarchs, promises of an end time generation.  I believe what Abraham saw what we saw described in Hebrews chapter 11 this incredible hall of champions. The Bible says that they saw something prophetic, but they’re still waiting on us to apprehend it so that their made perfect, Hebrew chapter 11 verses 39 and 40.  And so they saw something, they saw a righteous generation, David spoke of that in Psalm 24 when he said, “There will be a righteous generation.”  And we’ve been contending for that and I believe we’re living in the days when that righteous generation will emerge and Jesus said, that they’re going to be called “Sons of the Kingdom.”  He said, “He has sown into this world seeds and that He is intending to come back to harvest sons of the kingdom.”  And He is of course that great seed that went into the earth and at the end of the age they’ll be multiplied grains of wheat just like the original seed.

Sid:  Did the Lord tell you anything about this book “Angels that Gather?”

Paul Keith:  The main thing that I am hearing from the Lord is that it is now, it is now, we can’t continue to put off into the future the revelation of the sons of the Kingdom, that right now there must be an immerge of first fruits.

Sid:  My guest is Senior Pastor of Victory Christian Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Billy Joe Daugherty and I got a hold of his book called “You Can be Healed.”  And as you know I’m very very interested in healing and I have to tell you this is such a clear presentation that will just pump you with faith and answer the questions, the nagging questions that are probably stopping you from being healed and allow you to be used by others to pray for the sick.  And you use a word you’re talking about, Billy Joe, you’re talking about the woman with the issue of blood and you were teaching on that in this book, “You Can be Healed” and there was something that jumped out at me.  And you used the word drawing the healing out of the Messiah; it just jumped out at me; that’s in affect what we have to do is draw that healing out.

Billy Joe:  You know when that woman was healed and she fell at Jesus’ feet and told him all that she had done, Jesus said to her, “Woman your faith has made you whole.”  That woman had heard about Jesus, she wasn’t present when she heard, but she at a distance but someone told her that Jesus was healing and faith arose inside of her heart and she believed and she began to say to herself, “If I can but touch the hem of His garment I’ll be made well, I’ll be healed.”  She said it, she spoke it because she believed it and then she took action.  She went to where Jesus was coming through a little village and she pressed through the crowd and that’s faith.  Faith believes, faith speaks, faith takes action, but she didn’t stop there.  As Jesus walked by she did exactly what she said, and the Bible said, “She said in her heart,” so this was a heart word, a declaration she was making came right out of her spirit.  And she reached out and touched the very hem of His garment, robe that He was wearing and as she did healing power flowed into her body and Jesus turned around and said, “Who touched Me?”  Well, “The disciples all said, Master they’re all touching you.”  There were people packed in and crowding around, but Jesus declared, “I felt healing virtue flow from my body.”  He knew that someone had connected and there’s a difference.  You can be all around Jesus, a person can be hearing about Jesus, can be in a church, but if the switch of faith is not turned on.  It’s just like a light switch, you can have electricity wired to a house but if the switch is off the lights aren’t going to come on.  What happens when you flip the switch?  You draw the electrical power that was already in that house that had been connected to wires up to some type of power source, either nuclear power, or hydropower by water, or wind power, whatever way that was generated in many places today by the heating of coal and energy that’s burned in some type of a plant, that generates electricity.  It was already in the house, you flipped the switch and you drew it out and that’s a picture for us, that’s very similar to how faith works Sid.  When we say, “Lord, I believe in you.”  People today say, “Well I can’t touch the hem of His garment.”  That’s right we have something better, we have the name of Jesus.  He said, “In My name the sick will be healed, in My name the devils will be cast out.  So we can touch the name, people say, “Why’s that better?”  Well, in the day that Jesus lived and she could touch the hem of His garment, if she happened to be in another village she couldn’t touch it.  If she was in another country she could surely not have touched it.  But today, no matter what village, what tribe, what nation, state or providence that we live in we can touch the name of Jesus; we can call on His name.  And Sid, there’s healing power flowing right now for blind eyes to be opened; for deaf ears to hear; for the cripple to walk again.  Each of you that are hearing this message, I pray that the power of God floods you now, in Jesus name be healed and rise up from that bed of affliction.  There’s someone this very moment, you’ve had a long term illness, something that has held you down and kept you in captivity and the power of faith is being released inside of your spirit and through that faith you’re drawing on the authority of Jesus name.  You see He was raised up and seated in the heavenly places and we’re seated with Him.  He was giving the name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue confess that He’s Lord.  Name it right now and whatever that name is greater.

Sid:  You know Billy Joe, I feel what I’m sure you’re feeling right now, and I’m feeling the Spirit of God is just radiating from your words right now and that if someone could draw the Spirit of God that’s radiating from your words of healing right now they could be healed of anything.  But some of my friends that are very strong in healing, they tell people to do an action of some sort, is that very important?

Billy Joe:   Yes, what’s important and I’m so glad you interjected that, is that people do what they have not been able to do before.  If you couldn’t wiggle a finger, made an effort to wiggle if.  If someone’s been in paralysis; whatever you could not do, take an action to do it.  If you couldn’t breathe clearly then take a deep breath, if you couldn’t bend your neck then bend it as far as you could.  If you couldn’t stand up, make an effort to do it, yes it’s important that there’s some effort to take action to do what we could not do before.  And we should rejoice in every part or every inch of improvement that we get. The blind person when Jesus said, “What do you see?”  He said, “I see man as trees walking,” so He touched him a second time.  That means that there was a process, and Mark 16 says “Believer’s will lay hands on the sick and they will recover.”  So there’s a process, so we should thank God for every bit of improvement in that process.  And I speak to you that are hearing this word and you just heard what Sid, shared; wherever you could not do take that step right now in the name of Jesus of Nazareth.  Someone with severe problems in your jaw, that you’ve had great difficulty even opening your mouth. The power of God is coming in you this moment to take that action and make the effort, “Tell our brain that I’m going to open my jaw,” and begin to open it in Jesus name.  You that have not been able to hear clearly and accurately out of both ears test the ear that’s not been performing as good as it should.  Test it, both of them in Jesus name the power of God is not limited to a location; it is not restricted by time or distance.  Right now, the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is raising you up to wholeness.  The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the Living God I pray into you and upon you by the authority of Jesus name chains in your mental, emotional, and physiological realm, those chains of bondages are being broken right now.  Healing in your soul, healing in your mind; we speak even healing in relationships, in every part of our existence Jesus came to make us whole.  That was his message, He said, He was anointed to heal the broken hearted, but He didn’t stop there He said to release the captives; to set at liberty those who are bruised; to bring sight to the blind, that’s whole person healing.  Every part of your being, moving from brokenness and disease into wholeness and right where you are listening, just declare it out loud, “Lord, I receive your healing; I receive You as my savior; I receive You as the restorer of my soul in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth I pray, Amen.”

Sid:  Well, Billy Joe I don’t know what’s going on with you, but I feel like I’m in a river, I’m in a river of healing.  And I know that anyone that can reach out and some they may have heart trouble, high blood presser, diabetes, they’re not going to know by not doing something they couldn’t do.  But I have friends and what one of my friends says that I want you to run around the auditorium; another one says just do a little dance, just jump up and down a little bit.  There’s something about an action that allow you to draw the healing.

Billy Joe:  That’s it, we had two crippled people that both had strokes who came to our church. One just for the first time and another had been there a time or two; but there was one who saw this person that could not move get up and walk out of our building completely whole.  And they were standing there watching it you know, someone oh well in that case, let me say it, they were sitting there watching it and after they saw it I said, “Do you want to get up?”  And you know it was like it hadn’t dawned on them and they stood up and so now they’re standing there.  And now they are standing there, and I said “Do you want to walk?”  And those first steps began to take place since that stroke and movement came.

Sid:  But you know what?  If they had not taken that first step, they would never had their healing.

Billy Joe:  No, that’s right, it’s important to do something, I’m so glad you brought that out.

Sid:  And as I said that, “Someone’s back was just healed and someone’s neck was just healed in the name of Yeshua, in the name of Jesus.”  My guest is Don Dickerman and we’re finding out, we’re getting quite an education on the field of deliverance.  And Jesus spent a great deal of His ministry in the New Testament in the gospels, casting demons out of people.  We don’t hear much about that today, I guess the demons don’t want us to know that it’s really a legal right that every Christian has and once you find out you’re legal reasons why you can be free and how to handle it, the devil can’t take the heat and he leaves.  And the only fear you have is coming from that demon.  And if you give him no places guess how much fear you have, you have no fear.  So I’m speaking with Don Dickerman about his brand new book, just literally off the press, it’s called “When Pigs Move In.”  And it’s a workbook, you will have your own self deliverance or you can pray for other people and I love the fact that you have so many examples in this book Don.  But so people might understand there is a lot of symptoms that perhaps you have a deliverance problems; would you tell us some of these symptoms?

Don:  You know I actually just sat down one day and kind of made a list of things that I had seen, so many times.  One of the things that I want people to know is, just because you have one of these symptoms doesn’t necessarily mean you have a demon.  But when there’s a combination that’s a pretty good indication.  One of the symptoms is a compulsion to blaspheme God and sometimes that’s just a thought that comes; a revulsion against the Bible including a desire to tear it up or destroy it or compulsive thoughts of suicide or murder.  Deep feeling of bitterness and hatred towards others without reason, like Jewish people or other races, church leaders, strong Christian leaders.  They are people who have hatred for these people and they don’t know why, compulsive temptations, thoughts and behaviors of what you really don’t want to do, but you find you’re doing.  Desires to criticize and tear other people down, lying.  Lying that’s a symptom we see so common; demons are all liars and the truth’s not in them.  Terrifying feelings of guilt that people may have even though they confessed but they’re still overwhelmed by feelings of guild and condemnation.  Sometimes physical symptoms that may appear suddenly and leave quickly and there is not really a physical of physiological reason.  Migraine headaches, choking sensations, feeling of tightness about the head and the eyes or deep depression, despondency, all of these things can be symptoms that are caused by demons.  Surges of violent rage and uncontrollable anger, doubt of your salvation and that’s one we see so common, people are just plagued by doubt, doubt of God’s love, seizures of panic, overwhelming panic and anxiety.  And nightmares that are horrific in nature and sometimes about demons or occasionally clairvoyant dreams might even come true can be demonic.  Abnormal, perverted sexual desires, questions and challenges to God’s word.  And that’s another one we see a lot, virtually any disorder, anything that described as a disorder.  Well we know that God put’s things in order, demons take them out of order and many times there’s a source of disorders, one of the things we see healed in children, teenagers is ADD.  Confusion, confusion is a big indicator of demonic influence, rebellion and hatred toward authority, fascination with the occult and involvement in criminal activity sometimes that’s an obvious symptom.  Low self image, unworthiness, an inability to believe even when you want to.

Sid:  What about failing at every job they try?

Don:  Oh yes, failure or fear of failure, yes, that’s a big issue and you know one of the things that the people feel like is a curse in their life is poverty and it certainly can be.  It can be a generational curse.

Sid:  And a lot of people don’t understand these generational curses, some relative whose name you don’t know four generations back could have sinned and that curse can go up to four generations forward.

Don:  Right.

Sid:  And something you haven’t done personally, but you’re carrying that baggage until you’re set free.  And there’s so many people today that have been exposed since childhood to the New Age or the occult, do you find a lot of people have demons from that?

Don:  Absolutely, and those people generally know it, where they have been involved in occultic activities or witchcraft, New Age Witchcraft, New Age Healing, this type of things.  Any organization that involves oaths and vows and ceremonies.

Sid:  Now I hear Masons yet most people I know that are Masons have never done anything evil.

Don:  No, and there generally good people, that’s never the issue.

Sid:  Well, what’s the issue then?

Don:  The issue is the oath and the vows that they take, the secret society, I’ve had some people tell me that they don’t know anything about the masons.  When I command the demon to reveal his permission answerer will be something like “They wore the apron; they spoke the name, but it has to do with the oaths and the vows.”  And they generally involve demonic names, some of their secret passwords, but I want to be quick to say I know many many masons that are good people and they don’t get involved in this to be a part of evil, but it’s not just freemasonry, it’s anything similar to that where oaths and vows were involved.  And we have people many times who go into deliverance the demons will say that their permission is druid worship in the ancestry.  David Berkowitz,

Sid:  Son of Sam.

Don:  Yeah, the cult that he was in they worshipped Druid demons and I don’t want to say all of their names but they called on demon spirits.  Some of these organizations, fraternal organizations speak some of these same names in their ceremonies and so we see that and we see a lot of particular sicknesses through that generational permission.  Asthma is many times has that as the root is something in the ancestry that had to do with vows and ceremonies and pledges.  Sometimes college fraternities, the pledges and so on their ungodly and even though they’re usually done and people say “Well, it’s just something we do and it’s just a tradition.”  But it can be an invitation to demons.

Sid:  What is the most common symptom that you know of?

Don:  Probably fear, and rejection.  Rejection is probably one of the deepest that we see and of course sexual perversions and addictions.  Addictions now is pretty common, I had one I mentioned fear and rejection.  I’ve had people ask me what’s the most powerful spirit you ever dealt with, and there is one.  It’s the human spirit because the human spirit’s not really subject to the name of Jesus.  It can bow or not bow, so when a person’s human spirit is involved and they don’t really want deliverance.  But when the human spirit…

Sid:  That’s why you like to pray for people that are all ready born again.

Don:  Oh well, yeah.

Sid Roth:  Oh you know what, our time is slipping away.

Sid:  You could not help, but be red hot for the Messiah if you had read the book that I just read called “Anointing for Healing” because this is one of these books where the two authors have done the best job I have seen of documenting and researching, the most amazing miracles.  And I have one of the authors on the telephone Melanie Hemry and Melanie what happens when someone is not healed?

Melanie:  That happens when they give up too soon, when we were doing the stories we wrote stories about Brian Wills healed of Burkitt’s lymphoma the fastest growing cancer in the world.  About someone healed of Lou Gehrig’s disease, someone healed of Multiple Sclerosis and a fast growing tumor in their eye.  These people stood very often for at least two years and in spite of incredible symptoms that were screaming louder than the Word of God they probably would not have lived if they didn’t stay in the word of God and make the promises louder than their symptoms.

Sid:  And you see the way we think it because so many instant miracles in the gospels, because if it’s not instant God doesn’t want to heal me.  I mean that’s stinking thinking, but that’s the way that people think.

Melanie:  Right, I would say the people that die give up too soon.

Sid:  So it’s sort of like a baseball game where it’s not three strikes and you’re out; it’s when you quit that you’re out.

Melanie:  That’s it.

Sid:   Okay, let’s talk about the testimonies in this book, there are so many exciting ones, tell be about Anita Siddiki.

Melanie:  Anita is a friend of mine and she at the time was twenty-six years old a wife, a mother of an infant when she was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis.  She was a classical pianist; she lost the ability to use her fingers; she went blind in one eye; partially blind in the other paralyzed on one side of her body.  She couldn’t feel any sensation in her body; she could not see or feel her son; she could not feel her son, she could not hold him.  She became so weak that when her husband took her to church she laid on a pew and could lift one little finger in praise to God.  And she was doubly hindered because her mother had had cancer and they had prayed and she had died so she was like, “Okay what’s this about Lord?”  And she, the doctor’s told her, “Anita, here’s what we can do for you, a wheelchair and a catheter,” at twenty-six were her only options.  And so she and her husband got into the word of God and they started playing the Bible on tape twenty-four a day beside her bed and she studied healing scriptures so much that she became convinced that she was healed on Calvary.  That Jesus paid the price for that the same way He did her healing.  She would lay in bed and say “Lord, even though I can’t see this morning, and I can’t lift my legs off this bed, I believe I was healed on Calvary.”  And she stood on that word and she fought through those symptoms screaming at her for two years.  And one of the biggest things that Anita had to do is change the channel in her mind because the enemy would show her pictures of her own funeral and so she would force herself to see herself playing that classical piano again, playing tennis, running in the park with her children and it was hard to do.  But she battled that for two years, there was nothing sudden about it, but it very gradually every one of her symptoms went away.  She was totally healed, she had to go back and get another MRI and every symptom and every sign of Multiple Sclerosis left her body and they told her whatever you do do not have another child and she had another child and her children are teenagers and she’s been well ever since.

Sid:  So I thing the message that you are going to try and get across by the Holy Spirit is don’t give up.

Melanie:  Don’t give up!  Do not give up; do not give up, but stay on the Word.  All of these people got their healing in spite of horrible diagnosis’s because they clung to the Word of God by Jesus stripes we were healed.  And believed they were healed when every symptom in their body was screaming the opposite.

Sid:  Speaking of every symptom screaming the opposite we’re going to hear from one of the people in the book who had one of the most deadly form of cancer imaginable.  I’m on the telephone with Brian Wills of Richmond, Virginia you were twenty-four years of age when you thought you were invincible you were a star tennis player, as a matter of fact at you’re University Drury College where you graduated from you won more tennis games than anyone in their history.  You were going on the professional circuit in Europe; all of a sudden a pain started hitting you and things started getting worse and what did the doctors diagnosis this as?

Brian Wills:  Well, at first they thought I had a kidney stone or appendicitis, but I was in a hospital in Richmond for nine days and on the ninth day a doctor walked into my hospital room and said, “Brian I’ve got really bad news to tell you.  “What we thought was a kidney stone or appendicitis we realized it’s far more serious than that.”  And the doctor gathered our family around and he said, “You’ve got a rare terminal cancer, you’ve got actually the fastest growing cancer known to man, it’s called Burkitt’s lymphoma.  And you’ve got a mass in your abdomen and this type of cancer grows very very fast; in the medical field that is considered incurable is considered terminal and the rate that this cancer is likely to grow you know you may have two weeks or less to live.

Sid:  Now you had grown up in a Christian family, you had seen miracles, you went to your church, they prayed for you; anything special happen, did you feel anything?  Or was it just totally, they prayed for you and did you believe that you would be healed?

Brian Wells:  Well, I had certainly seen healings personally, but this was the first time for me and for our family where we had ever faced the life and death situation; where we had ever been given a diagnosis of cancer and in particularly one that was considered terminal and incurable.  So for me as well as our family this was the first test that we faced in our Christian journey.

Sid:  It’s easy to preach a good game when it’s someone else.

Brian Wells:  That’s right, that’s right, but when it hits you personally that’s when you realize what faith you do have, you know.  And the only thing we need to do is really turn to the Word of God and to find our answer in the Word of God which we knew that He is Jehovah Rophe, the Lord our healer.

Sid:  Okay, so you’re prayed for and things rather than getting better they got worse.

Brian Wells:  Right, we took that weekend to pray and it just seemed like even though we had people come over our house and praying and throughout that weekend, I actually in the natural the tumor was growing in my body, my kidney’s had already started to shut down and so within about seventy-two hours I had a tumor that grew from the size of a golf ball to over nine inches in diameter.

Sid:  And the doctors finally said, “You’ve have about ten hours to live.”  It was at that point you dedicated your life to God and God spoke to you.

Brian Wells:  That’s right that Tuesday they told my parents, they said, “Your son will not be alive by Friday, so go ahead and make the funeral arrangements.”  And so I called unto the Lord, I said, “Lord, if You’ll heal me I’ll go where ever You want me to go, I’ll speak to whoever You want me to, I’ll do whatever You want me to do.”   And you know it was at that moment that I said that prayer that all of a sudden in my hospital room the presence of God just began to fill that place and I in that moment the Lord spoke to me, not as an audible voice, but just that still small voice on the inside, he spoke to me He said, “Son, I will heal you if you do the steps I tell you to take.” And so I could feel His presence in that room and I could feel that love, I could feel that assurance.

Sid:  What were the two things that you had to do?

Brian Wells:  Well, that’s when I first said, “Well, Lord what’s the first step then?”  And I knew immediately that He as showing me that I had some unforgiveness that hadn’t been dealt with, needed to be dealt with and so I knew in my heart that I needed to call someone and get my heart right with that person.  And little did they know where I was at the time, they didn’t know that I was in a hospital room, but I got my heart right and I asked them for forgiveness.  And the second thing the Lord had me to do was He showed me that I had not been tithing.  And so I turned to my parents and I figured it out over the last six months that I had been working and I said, “I want you to take this amount which represented a tithe and I want you to take it out of my bank account and I want you to give it to the church.”

Sid Roth:  Okay, you had a CT scan and the doctors came back and told you the results, what did they say?

Brian Wells:  Yes, about 6:00 that evening after I had come back into the hospital room, my doctor walked in my room carrying the x-rays and he had a strange look on his face and he came over and he sat on the edge of my bed and he said, “Brian” he said, “This afternoon when you were at the radiologist  the radiologist called me and he said, “Doctor, I’ve checked this young man three times from head to toe and we can’t find any evidence of cancer in his body.”

Sid:  My guest is red hot for the Messiah; if you had had an experience like she had you’d be red hot for the Messiah.  Her name is Karen Mayer Cunningham and Karen, when you had little James you were such an excited mother up to fifteen months describe what James was like.

Karen:  Oh, he was wonderful, very first child, boy, blond hair blue eyes, he was very big, he was nine six and a half and he just came out perfect.  Ten fingers, ten toes, happy, we were so happy to have him and we got him home and of course, he progressed just right on chart like every mother wants their children to do.  He rolled over at nine days, he sat up at four and half months, and he was just a picture of health, happy, peaceful, one of those children that would go to anybody and be happy.   He walked at nine months, we had every opportunity, we took every single picture we could of him and he was adorable and happy until about fifteen months.

Sid:  What happened that caused the change?

Karen:  Well, we took him for his regular check-ups like all parents do and then one day all of the sudden he ran to this spot in the hall and he would stand backwards and start to beat his head in the wall.  Now I didn’t think that was normal behavior but I didn’t know this was my first child, so I had plenty of woman that came to my salon and said, “Oh, that’s just the terrible twos, that’s what boys do, they’re really rough and they gave me all explanations of why he was doing this.  And being a first time mother I was sure that these other woman must have known what they were talking about and nobody seemed to think it was much much to do about anything.

Sid:  But things began to get progressively worse.

Karen:  Things began to get progressively worse very quickly.  When he would hit his head on the sheet rock, it was first just a few times and we would re you know just redirect him.  And you know, pat him on the head and send him on his way and tell him to stop doing that; that it was not a good choice.  And then before you know it he had actually made a hole in the wall with the back of his head.  And from that he started to pick off little pieces of the sheet rock and eat them.  I think it is one of those things that when you go through as a parent you don’t really want to share with others the severity of your situation, I don’t know if it’s shame, blame or other peoples condemnation, but you sort of sort of try to joke it off.

Sid:  But what did the doctors say about this?

Karen: Um, the doctors, you know I think the doctors see tons of mothers in their pediatric visits who bring them every little situation and the doctors try to settle the mothers and say “Don’t worry about it, it’s just a phase, it’s a season, this will pass, little kids are funny, they’re funny that way, they all do different little things.”  And so the doctors who have gone to medical school seem fine about it, and I had eighty clients that came to me every two weeks, they didn’t seem to be upset about it.  So surely all this seasoned veteran information around me was much better than my first mother experience.  So I assumed that at some point soon this would stop, it was just a phase that he was going through.

Sid:  But you actually had him in Special Ed and then one day you were accused of child neglect and the child protective services came to visit you.

Karen:  Well, between the fifteen months and he turned three a lot transpired, we had, we had taken him to the doctor and the doctor started to maybe agree that there was a possibility that something might not be right.  But I don’t think that any doctor or a pediatric doctor wants to say that once they say something it’s permanent and it’s on your files.  So we went to a place called Star Bright Pediatrics’ a wonderful specialty facility in Austin and had him have an intake.  And I’ve never been around anybody with Special Ed I just hadn’t been around anybody who had a Special Ed child.  I knew some people with handicapped, physically handicapped children but not with emotional or mental needs.  And so we took him to Star Bright Pediatrics and I was very happy because I thought these people will tell me what’s wrong and we’ll just fix it.  And as we sat there at intake when he was two and a half years old I knew; I knew that this was not good.  I think that mother instinctively know that something is really really wrong and we sat there and he sat on a little bay chair and this specialist, this clinician took down information.  She gave him a toy and then she would snatch it back from him.  Well, he didn’t like that and so then he began to tantrum, but his tantrums weren’t like other two year olds tantrums, they were without a beginning and usually without an end.  And he began to sit on the floor and rock and rock and rock until finally he was laying on the floor hitting his head on the floor until she gave the toy back.  And then as she did these little things, in my opinion to set him off, which was what she was trying to do, she was trying to see his action and then reaction, she made notes, she made notes, she made notes.  She didn’t really talk to us, but I guess that’s her job and at the very end she said, “Well, I can tell you that James is classically autistic.”  And the only time that you want to hear classically is when someone is a soloist in orchestra, but you don’t want to hear that about autism.  I didn’t know what autism was, but this is what she said to me.  “There’s no treatment, there’s no cure, he’ll always have it, he’ll never play with other boys and girls, he’ll always need one on one attention, he probably won’t graduate high school and we’ll send this report to you in the mail in a few days.”  “Thanks for coming in.”

Sid:  Now, since that time, you’ve found out a great deal about autism.  You were telling me one in one hundred and fifty children in America have autism.

Karen:  That’s correct and one in ninety-eight of those Sid are males.  It’s a very male dominated disorder.  Autism is on the spectrum called PED, Pervasive Development Disorder and on that spectrum on the very left side of it the least worse, if that’s a category is a little thing called ADD.  And on the very right of that on the very worse of the spectrum is the thing called autism.  And so between those two things are the largest issue that this generation possibly the last twenty years has faced with their children.

Sid:   And you’re telling me that there’s no cure?

Karen:  I’m telling you they said that there is no cure by doctors and that is currently the case, there is no cure, there is no treatment.  Part of that is because it is a disorder, it’s not a disease.  I have a blue eye, if you cut me open I have a gene for a blue eye.  If you have diabetes we can do a like test, a like treatment, it’s inside of you.  There’s nothing inside of you autistic, that’s why I said, “Disorder.”  And it’s not a disease, its disorder and so that’s what they say, “There is something out of order with your child.”  They can assume, they can gather data and look at the general things that happened to him in a set period of time.  It could be possibilities why these behaviors exist in your child, but there is no pin point beginning.  There is no “You did this and this happened.”

Sid:  Okay, so you come to grips, he’s got this problem; it’s not going to get better.  There is no cure for it, how did you deal with it?

Karen:   Well, I dealt with it the way I’ve always dealt with things in my life, I didn’t believe them.  I’ve always been able to control, manipulate, lead, coheres, get my way in life, sort of a strong willed person, strong willed mother.  I thought, well that can’t be true, I’ll just figure this out, I’ll look on Oprah, I’ll look on Larry King live; they don’t know what they’re talking about.  No hope is not a diagnosis that we have my family; I don’t believe that, I don’t receive that, I don’t participate in that.  So I’ll just ask somebody else, now having a wonderful database of clients in my salon, I had wonderful women that came to me and ministered to me literally.  And one of my clients told me about this thing called preschool for children that are speech delayed in Texas.  And I was very very excited because each time I got some nugget of information or hope I thought, “That this is the one thing that I need, this is the way out of this dark valley.”  And so my client told me that in Texas, “That if you’re speech delayed you start Special Ed.”  Well, James was a summer baby so in the summer of ’97 we took him for an intake at the school district there in Austin.  My husband took him because I was too upset I couldn’t take any more doctors telling me that I had a bad apple.  I just couldn’t take it, I couldn’t take it, I couldn’t take it and so my husband took him and then he came back and he said “He was accepted.”  And I was like, “That’s great.”  So the next month August of ’97 he started his PPCD, his preschool preparation for children with disabilities.  Of course I didn’t liken that title was applicable to by son, but if that’s the category that’s fine; we’ll just get him the help he needs and he’ll be just fine.  So he went to the school for a thing called an ARD which is an Assessment, Review and Dismissal.  And as we sat around this big round table with principals and consultants and occupational therapist and they had a lot of paper work, I felt really pushed up against the wall.  I think for mothers when there’s something wrong with your child there’s a lot of shame and blame whether it’s spoken or inferred, or just it’ self set induced.  And so they had all this paperwork and I said, “You know, he qualifies he can start in August and he’ll get all his Special Ed and he’ll get help.  And I said, “Well, if he behaves badly are you going to kick him out of school?”  Because I didn’t know, I knew when I went to school if you behaved badly, if you ate the wall, you’d be kicked out of school.  And they just looked at me with their heads turned like, “What are you talking about?”  They said, “Of course not!  He’s handicapped.”  Ah, when they said that it broke my heart, it just broke my heart, because he’s not handicapped he just needs a little help.

Sid:  I don’t know about a little help, describe to me graphically exactly what his behavior was like.

Karen:  At that point in ’97 he was three years old and a little help yes.  He was eating the sheet rock, he ate all the rubber off the back of all of our bathroom mats, he’d eaten the rubber liner out of where your door closes on your car, eaten the entire thing.  It looked like somebody had taken a sledge hammer to our walls in our house.  And if you were standing up and you had a pair of flip-flops on your feet he might just drop down and start picking pieces of that off.  At that point we were buying this roll of rubber product from Pediatrics, Star Bright Pediatrics that we would tie in a knot, it was inperbus rubber and he would chew on it for hours.  And so this war zone that we lived in had become our normal.

Sid:  He would also get out of your house and wander in your neighborhood.

Karen:  Yep, he would just let himself out and run up and down the streets until the neighbors brought him back.  He was like a raccoon; he was like a little wild animal in our house.  It was…anything could set him off.

Sid:  This sounds like more of a diagnosis than handicapped.

Karen:  Yes.

Sid:  It sounds worse to me.

Karen:  It felt worse to me, it felt like living with death, death of dreams, death of hopes for your child, death of possibilities.  But I kept hanging on to the next little nugget I got from anybody thinking, This is all we need to turn this train around from going off the cliff.”

Sid Roth:  But unfortunately it gets progressive worse.  We’ll pick up right here on tomorrow broadcast.

Sid:  My guests are red hot for the Messiah, Wesley and Stacy Campbell, and I caught up with them by way of telephone at their home at Kelowna BC Canada.   And Wesley comes from three generations of Plymouth Brethren.  And Wesley as I understand it you believed the gifts had passed away, woman needed head coverings, did not allow musical instruments.  You were just plain religious.

Wesley:  And boring, let me tell you it was boring.

Sid:  I mean you have come a long way.  Ha-ha.

Wesley:  Long way and we’re happy to have come.

Sid:  And Stacy as a young child you were raised in an environment that did not understand the gifts of the Spirit but God was operating in your life as a young child, you just had no grid for it.  Give me an example.

Stacy:  Well, we would go to church quite regularly, most Sundays we went to church, although we never had a Bible in our home; kind of a mainline denomination where you just sort of out to tradition went to church and believed in God in general.  But God was very, very far away personally; like you know He was out there.  But when I was six or seven years old I had a dream where Jesus appeared to me and audibly spoke to me.  And it totally completely changed my life; I thought, I thought that God was out there, it wasn’t that I didn’t believe in God.  But when He spoke to me, He said this, he said, he quoted words that we say in church every single Sunday, and all He said was, “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.”  But it was terrifying like the voice was literally like the Bible says, like the voice of many waters, like thunder.  And I as a child was so impacted by those words and I received from this vision of Jesus where those audible words were spoken a deep impartation of the fear of the Lord.  And I instantly knew from that moment on what was right and what was wrong.  I was always the white sheep of my family.  I always wanted to be good and I was like I was actually literally horrified by evil, I was always telling all my brothers and my twin sister and you know I didn’t want them to do anything bad.  But I didn’t know how to find God again, like I knew He was there from that moment and I was always searching for God from that moment on.

Sid:  Now, you had quite an unusual experience when you were told to marry Wesley.

Stacy:  Oh that, that also was incredible because I went from a mainline…

Wesley:  And I’m very thankful for that by the way.

Stacy:  Ha-ha, I went from a mainline denomination to when I met my husband, he took me to the Plymouth Brethren Church.

Wesley:  But we weren’t married.

Stacy:  No, and as a sixteen year old and he invited me to church and the youth group and everything.  And they taught me the Bible which I am so grateful for, gave me a deep foundation in the word.  But they also taught me all the gifts of the Holy Spirit had ceased, but I use to pray the Bible every night since I was sixteen years old, I would not go to sleep without bringing myself before the Bible.  And I want to say this, about prayer, is that the bulk of my supernatural experiences have come out of the context of prayer.  As I’ve been seeking God, God will suddenly you know invade my personal life and give me a very phenomenal experience.  And so university I was praying the Bible, Isaiah Chapter 40.

Sid:  When you say, “Praying the Bible, what do you mean by that?”

Stacy:  Well, I started praying the Bible when I was sixteen years old because I was the dumbest one in church.  In other words I knew, I had no Biblical background, I had never had a Bible, I became a Christian at sixteen and though I had known about God and had been searching for God I never ever took the bible and read it.  So when I got to the Plymouth Brethren Church everybody knew the Bible, everybody knew all about it and I, you know the preacher would say, go look up the book of Philippians and I wouldn’t even know what, I’d turn to the person next to me and said, “What page is it on?”  I knew nothing about the Bible.  And so I went home and I tried to read it at home and I was so, it was so confusing to me as a sixteen year old girl that the only way that I could understand it is if I took every word very very slowly and prayed it.  And I said “God I don’t understand this and I don’t know what this means and you have to help me understand it.”  And so I’d take the first word, Paul.  And I’d say, “Well, who is Paul?” and I’d look up in the concordance everything I could find about Paul.  And you know found out about how he got saved with the blinding light and how he used to be a Pharisee of Pharisees of the Tribe of Benjamin.  And you know all about his background and how he did Missionary journey’s and you know about…And then I’d go to the next verse and Timothy.  And I’d say “God, tell me about Timothy” and so I’d look up in the concordance about Timothy how he had a saved mother and grandmother and how he use to go on Missionary’s with Paul and then I’d go to the next verse.  Bond slaves, bond slaves, what’s a bond slave and I looked up in Exodus how it says you know you couldn’t have a Hebrew slave, you had to let them go after every seven years.  But it said “That if the servant loved his master you know and wants to continue to serve him out of desire you have to go first of all and get the scroll from the judge has to go and get his ear pierced with a null and then he gets to be a bond slave for life.”  And so then I would pray that, and I would say “God, just like Paul was a bondslave and Timothy was a bondslave you know, make me your bondslave.”  And I was you know in an alcoholic family, I was you know five brothers, twin sister; the only one in my whole family line on both sides that I knew was a Christian.  And in that context as I prayed the Bible slowly because I was the dumbest one in church “God, I prayed like Paul was a bondslave and Timothy was a bondslave that you would make me your bondslave and so when I go to high school tomorrow I’m asking God that you would help me to know who I am in You and who You are in me.”  And it really totally formed; it was the foundation and basis of my entire spiritual life.

Sid:   So tell me now how you knew you were suppose to marry Wesley.

Stacy:  Well, out of that context, so I did that every night from sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen.  When I was eighteen years in my second year of university because I graduated from High School young and went to University early; I was in my second year of university and I would pray every single night at university.  And I was studying French and German and I was living in a dorm room nobody else was Christians in my dorm and so every single night I would go into my dorm room and I would pray the Bible.  And I had been praying Isaiah 40 at the time and Wesley was on the mission field in Nigeria.

Wesley:  For a year.

Stacy:  Yeah, for a year and so we would just write letters and I was thinking, actually I am going to be an interpreter and I’m going to try to work for the UN and I’m going this way and Wesley is going to be a Plymouth Brother and Pastor.  And he and I are going totally different directions so this isn’t going to work so I broke up with him.  But while I was praying Isaiah Chapter 40 about God how awesome God is, He’s measured the waters in the haul of His hand and He’s mark off the heavens with the span.  And then it goes on to say this “Behold the nations are like a drop from a bucket; there like a speck of dust from the scales.”  You know they’re like nothing before Him, they’re like less than nothing and meaningless.  And I’m praying through this thing like the whole nations of the world are like you know just a speck, they are like nothing like, less than nothing.  And as I’m praying that, my whole university room lights up.  Now you have to understand, a Plymouth Berean I am in a room by myself with a head covering on, praying the Bible and the entire dorm room lights up with this golden glow and I look down at my Bible and tears are falling off my face onto my Bible and suddenly my Spirit is lifted out of my body and I am in this experience where I’m flying with another being which I know is the Lord, I know that it’s the Lord; I know it’s the Lord Jesus.  I’m flying over the nations of the world with God.  And He’s saying, He says, “I will show you how the nations are like less than nothing before Me.”  And in like just a brief period of time we just flew over nations and we zoomed in on certain ones.  Even nations where there’s wars going on and trouble and famine and we would zoom down on those nations and I would see them and then we would zoom back up.  And the audible voice of God spoke to me and He said, “I Am Lord of the nations.”  And I had this understanding that even in wars and famine and difficulty that God is working all things to the pleasure of His goodwill and things are moving in exorable towards His will ultimately being done, He will work through these things.  I don’t know how I understood this but I had this innate understanding that God knew everything, that nothing was escaping His notice.  That he would even use what the devil meant for evil for good and bring nations to Himself.  And then He said, “I am Lord, but the audible voice was “I Am Lord of the nations.”  And then thunk I’m back in my body, tears are falling on my Bible, the room is golden glow and kind of shinny and then the Lord audibly spoke to me, He said, “And I’m Lord of you and I want you to marry Wesley.”  Now that meant to me, I’d have to leave my family because none of them were Christians, they did not like Wesley because he was so evangelical preaching all the time.  I had to leave my family and go against my parent’s wishes.  I had to quit university because I knew that even though I had a career that meant giving up my whole career, that meant doing all that and I had to you know probably was in my mind’s eye saw myself with ahead covering you know silent in the church for the rest of my life but I felt like that’s what God wants me to do.  So I said, “Okay, I’ll do it.”  But that was the singular best decision I have ever made in my life.

Wesley:  Amen.

Sid:  Ha-ha, Wesley how long did it take you to figure out what Stacy figured out?

Wesley:  Well, it took me longer, I was in Africa and you know I began to read for the very first time…

Sid:  I’ll tell you what, we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast but, Wesley I am so intrigued by your book.  The title is “Praying the Bible, the pathway to spirituality.”  It seems as though Stacy was just taught this by God how to pray the Bible.  But you did research and you found out the ancient Jewish way of praying.

Wesley:  Right.

Sid:  Most Christians don’t have a clue about.  What difference does it make in your life that you have learned to pray the Bible?

Wesley:  It has changed everything about my life, everything about my life, everything I believe and do now has been based on the experience through praying the Bible and before that I didn’t even pray and I didn’t know how to pray.

Sid Roth:  Well, I got a quote by you and you state “Everyone that learns how to pray this way experiences a marked improvement in their prayer life.”  And with what’s going on in the world today we need a marked improvement.  Do you need a marked improvement; do you need help in your prayer life?

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to red hot for the Messiah and if you haven’t noticed lately we must be in the last of the last days.  I mean the whole world is shaking financially, but my guest says that God has specifically shown him that he’s not affected by the financial systems of this world.  And as a matter of fact this is going to be his finest hour of for raising money for the sake of spreading the gospel.  And I want to find out what secret’s God is showing Todd Coontz because my Bible says that God’s not a respecter of persons and what He’ll do for one He’ll do for all.  I want to take you back as a young child because being Jewish and having been saved when I was 30 years of age I have to tell you you’re doing what the Gentile believer’s supposed to do, provoke the Jew to jealousy, but as a young age you heard God’s voice.  What a valuable, wonderful gift!

Todd:  Yes, yes I tell you of course I’m thrilled to be here on the radio show with you Sid and all that you’re doing for the gospel and for the Jews.  And but from an early age I heard the voice of God and His calling on my life.

Sid:  And your mother of course was an intercessor, but she put up with a lot, you were kind of hyperactive and you had to have Ritalin several times a day.  And is it true that you were voted to be the least likely to succeed two times.

Todd:  Ha-ha, it’s hard to believe now when I look at my life and how good God’s been to me.  But yes I was hyperactive, I was on Ritalin three times a day, I was voted least likely to succeed twice, I flunked the second grade twice.  I had reading problems, math problems; I had a speech impediment and my own Grandmother I say laughingly told everyone that he’ll never amount to anything.  But Sid I had a mother an intercessor, a prayer warrior that even prays for me every day now.  Who said, “Todd it doesn’t matter what people say about you, with God’s help you can do anything, you can be anything and nothing can stop you with God on your side.

Sid:  Well, in 1990 it’s no wonder with all the baggage you had even with a praying mother you were really struggling.  You were struggling financially, and God spoke to you, what did He say?

Todd:  You know Sid I was saved when I was ten and I preached, I was healed a second night when I was ten of hyperactivity.  And I wanted to mention to that the listeners need to hear this, the gospel that not only saves you is the gospel that also heals you according to Isaiah 53:5 and 1 Peter 2:24.  But I laid my bottle of Ritalin on the altar and I said, “God if you can save me you can heal me.”  And God completely healed me that night and I never took another pill.  But on the third night I preached my first message at the age of 10 and that’s when I really began to realize I had a very unique calling and anointing on my life.  And so several years went by and were up to 1990 now and God began to speak to me about a great wealth transfer.  Of course we know in Proverbs it says the wealth of the sinners is laid up for the righteous.  You know about the principles of increase in the Bible Deuteronomy 28.  The problem was I wasn’t seeing any of those blessings in my life; I was on the brink of bankruptcy and my car was almost repossessed, I was poor, my electric was turned off.  I mean I was struggling financially when God spoke a phrase to me one day that changed my life. He said, “Todd to get what I have, you need to do what I say.”

Sid:  That’s too simple you know.  Ha-ha.

Todd:  It was, I mean…

Sid:  Now at the time, just to make it a little clearer for those that are listening, you had an income of about $800 a month, you had expenses of $1500 a month, your car was being repossessed.  You must have had horrific family problems with the pressure of finances; so you were desperate.

Todd:  Yes, very desperate, I had come to the end of my rope; you know a lot of us as Christians and believers we don’t understand that there’s actually two parts of the gospel.  There’s the person of Jesus that brings us salvation and gets us ready for heaven; but then there’s the principals of Jesus that He taught that prepare us to live on earth and prepare financial property for us.  I knew Him as my Lord and Savior, but I had not surrendered my finances to Him, I did not know Him as my Jehovah Jireh, that was my fault because I wasn’t doing what the Bible said to do.

Sid:  Okay, so He says this to you what do you do with these words?

Todd:  Well, when I was sitting there I was looking at how it all came about.   I was in financial devastation, I was under great, great pressure but I was looking at the stack of unpaid bills equaling $1500 a month with an income of $800 a month.  And I was saying, “God there’s got to be a better way, there’s got to be a better way; I can’t imagine how a God that has so much would give me so little.”  And that’s when the Holy Spirit said, “To get what I have you have to do what I say.”  And I began to search the Bible.  I began to scour the Word of God to find out what does the Bible say about money?  What does the Bible say about blessing?  And interesting enough I discovered that there are promises in the Bible for God to bless us.  There are, there is actually a blessing chapter in Deuteronomy 8:28 where God says, “He’ll, the blessings will overtake us if we’ll obey and be obedient.”  And I began to learn about the law of Genesis, the law of reciprocity which literally changed my life.  And that was basically the turning point when I made a decision that I would take a portion of my income and I would begin to sow it, I begin to give it back into the work of God.  That was the critical moment when things began to turn around for me.

Sid:  Out of curiosity, were you not giving tithes to a local church or to ministries at that point, you were giving nothing?

Todd:  Sadly I was giving nothing even though I understood the tithe in Malachi 3, and I understood Luke 6:38, I was making so little and my bills were so much I just didn’t feel like I could afford to do it.  And so and in my thinking was, and in so man listening right now, are probably in this scenario I was thinking God doesn’t need my little bit of money.  But Sid it never was about my money, it never was about that, it was about obedience, it was about obey Him.  Because God’s a loving Father, He wants to give, He wants to bless, but it’s all about faith and obedience.  You know one of the phrases that really changed my life is that God’s not moved by need, He’s moved by our faith.

Sid:  Oh, oh you better say that again because there’s so many people that are saying “Well that’s good for Todd Koontz, but I’ve been tithing my whole life and I need money desperately and I can tell you that I’m glad the tithing deal worked for Todd, but it hasn’t worked for me.”

Todd:  Well, you know Malachi Chapter 3 and it’s the only place in the Bible that God says, prove me, prove me.  Return the tithe into the storehouse, bring your offerings and God says, “See if I won’t open the windows of Heaven and pour you out a blessing that you contain.”  And when we, when we give or we sow seed or we tithe, we return a portion of our income back to God.  It’s not that God needs it, it’s just, it’s a seed of honor, it’s acknowledging that God is first in our life.  You know there’s a law, it’s called the law of sequence, what you do first determines what happens next.  And God says “If you’ll do this first, if you’ll honor My word, if you’ll obey Me, I will then bless what you have; I’ll bless what you do through favor and through contacts and promotions.”  And of course this program’s about supernatural; God will do supernatural things, things that we cannot explain.

Sid:  Okay, I hear you say that, I know God does it in your life and I might add God does it in my life, but what about my life; but what about the person listening now that says, “I have tithed my whole life, and I can’t pay my mortgage, I’m going to lose my house, I’m going to lose my car?”

Todd:  And so many people are in that scenario right now, and I talked a few moments ago about the parts of the gospel, the person and the principles.  There are principles of finance that we got to adhere to; there are laws of money that we’ve got to obey.

Sid:  So are you saying, someone could tithe and because there missing it in some other areas that’s why they’re hurting so badly right now, is that what you’re saying?

Todd:  That’s exactly what I’m saying, see we’ve been taught about prayer and we’ve been taught about fasting, and we’ve been taught about miracles and healing and all of that’s part of the gospel and thank God for that.  But there’s a part of the gospel that no body’s been taught, and that’s financial stewardship, that’s how to handle God’s money.  And that’s part of my calling, that’s part of what I do as a financial teacher.

Sid:  Okay, based on you obeying God and you said your life changed forever financially.  Can you give me kind of encapsulate where you are today as a result of using the principals God has taught you?

Todd:  Well, I’m debt free for one thing, I’m debt free and I’m not homeless.  You know, I say laughingly anybody can be debt free, just give away everything and live on the street.  But I’m debt free and living an abundant life.  And through my life, and not to brag on me but I’m wanting the viewers to understand and be listeners to understand that last year alone through my life and ministry provided over a million meals to the hungry.  And I hope we talk about this too because there’s so many parts of financial stewardship.  And one of the great turnarounds in my life that really brought great blessing was not just blessing Israel, blessing the people of Israel, but in Isaiah 58, “It say that if you extend your hand to the poor, your light will shine in obscurity.”  So there’s several parts in this, but I would change everyone listening today to make God your total source of supply.

Sid Roth:  I’m sorry we’re out of time right now, but you listen this week, I really urge you to…You see Todd has a gift of imparting great faith, not faith, great faith to believe for anything especially in the financial arena.  And it doesn’t matter where you’re starting from, it doesn’t matter whether you have much money to start with these principals are God principals they will work for you.

Sid:  Now my guest literally is provoking me to jealousy because when I hear some of the experiences she had as a young child.  For instance, LaDonna Taylor your grandmother was quite a woman of God she prayed for dead people that came back to life.  And as a young child you’d to out on the streets with her and pass tracks out.  Tell me one of your fondest memories of your grandmother and you out there on the streets.

LaDonna:  Oh, it was wonderful it was on the corner of Travis and Houston Street in San Antonio, Texas.  We would ride the transit bus half way across town to get there.  We would carry her guitar and her accordion and we’d always make sure we had the tracks with us, little bundles of salvation tracks with us.  My, I called my grandmother Nana.  Her name was Magdalena Lot and she started fifty-two churches in the south Texas and north Mexico area.  She would preach in Spanish and English.

Sid:  What a great heritage God gave you, go ahead.

LaDonna:  Oh, she would she would play her accordion or her guitar; I was seeing my Nana was about 4’8” tall.  I remember as a tiny toddler just able to understand to carry the tracks with me you know to the place, you know to the place where she was going to preach in Spanish and English.  And I remember holding those tracks up, some people would take them, some wouldn’t but my grandmother would get in there faces and present Jesus to them and talk to them about the Lord.  Then, oh my goodness we would go across the street, we walk a couple of three blocks to a public park downtown San Antonio.  My grandmother would wake up the bums, the homeless.

Sid:  Now, we Jewish people would call that chutzpah, nerve.  Ha-ha-ha.

LaDonna:  Yes, little, little Mexican woman and with and in those times, this was sixty years ago.  In those times the prejudice against the Spanish people in San Antonio was tremendous.  And but yet there she was called of God to preach the gospel and to wake up those homeless people on the park benches and I’ll tell you what, she prayed for them, she loved them.  She taught that compassion to me.

Sid:  Well, I also admire something else.  As a young child you would worship God for hours and hours. How does a young person do that?  I mean it’s hard for an old person to do it.  How does a young person do that?

LaDonna:  It’s the most amazing thing that from a tiny, tiny child I was so taught about Jesus and my grandmother, my parents both worked and so my grandmother kept me and it was her spirit that was with me all the time that taught me to worship.  That taught me as I watched her sit and read her Bible all day long.  I’m so thankful to God of that heritage, I’m so grateful.

Sid:  At age twelve you literally heard the audible voice of God, it was really your call to serve Him.

LaDonna:  It was my call, my parents that evening and my grandmother were taking me to a prayer meeting before the Wednesday night service.  And we walked through the empty sanctuary back to the prayer rooms; the woman would pray on the right side; the men would pray on the left side before church.  And walking through the…

Sid:  Sounds like it’s an orthodox Jewish congregation, but it’s a church, but go ahead that’s just a little in joke but go ahead.

LaDonna:  That was your full time Pentecostal old time Pentecostal Full gospel church and and on my way back I heard the deep, deep male audible voice call my name.  I turned around and I thought that it was my Dad.  Yes Dad.  Oh, there was not a soul in that semi-dark auditorium and I knew that it was the voice of God, I knew it was.

Sid:  And you at a young age, you had visions and you would worship God for hours.  You were even taken to A.A. Allen meetings.  Did you actually see some of those miracles, I just read about?

LaDonna:  I did, actually the A. A. Allen, Oral Roberts meetings were the same thing that was happening in the home church that I was born into here in San Antonio.  That was, when I was born, an eleven year revival three meetings a day, two hours on the radio was, we were in the midst of that revival when I was born.  I, it was very ordinary, I mean extremely ordinary, everybody that would go up would be healed.  I actually saw the left bench, I remember as clear as anything, even though it was probably fifty-five years ago, I actually saw people come up off the bench and go back on as we worshipped God.  It was amazing.

Sid:  I’m not understanding you, what do you mean go, go, go off and go on?

LaDonna:  They in there worship they actually lifted up off the bench.

Sid:  You know, that’s never happened to me, but sometimes I feel like it because I’m so filled with the Spirit of God.  I guess you can get so filled that you actually elevate.

LaDonna:  Other people in that service saw that, but I saw so many physical miracles, so many things I just always believed that God could do anything.

Sid:  Well, you know what, when I read the New Testament coming from a traditional Jewish background for the first time I was in a state of shock when I found out that what went on in churches and what I read about they weren’t the same.  It was almost like a different gospel!

LaDonna:  It’s so true!

Sid:  By the way, our time is slipping away, how did you find out that you were so anointed on the violin?

LaDonna:  Well, I was, I thought that I was going to be a pianist that would tour the world.  By the time I was twelve years old I was playing the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto.  But at school I was asked to be the pianist for the school orchestra.  And the violin just fascinated me, it just fascinated me.  And I took it home and immediate it was just easy for me, it was in my heart.  Now I have studied, I’ve paid the price, I actually hold to doctorates in music and blessed be the name of the Lord for excellence.  But it just fascinated me it was in my heart and the moment I played a little offerorate at the church when I was twelve years old people would come up and say, “I was healed when you played.”

Sid:  You know one of your songs, one of your songs and we have two of your CDs and let me tell you Mishpochah, they are so anointed.  The, I don’t know if anyone has ever told you this LaDonna, but they are bringing, they usher in peace and tranquility.  Tell me about this song, I’m not that familiar with it, “Be Thou My Vision.”  Where did that come from?

LaDonna:  This beautiful ancient Irish Hymn from the Eighth Century is actually ushers in the presence of God in such a tangible way.  When I go to Ireland especially because this is an Irish Hymn, when I go to Ireland especially at the beginning of every service and at the end of every service and as background music, the laying on of hands, the Lord just and His presence comes close, during this beautiful “Be Thou My Vision.”

Sid:  Do you see many miracles when you play this song?

LaDonna:  I see a lot of miracles.

Sid:   Tell me one.

LaDonna:  I saw a lady that had a cancer brain tumor, two of her sisters died of the very same thing, and the tumor was about the size she told me, of a plum in her brain.  When I prayed for her, she fell out, I came back six months later and the tumor was gone.

Sid Roth:  Wait till you sense what I sense on this music.  “Be Thou My Vision.”

LaDonna Worship excerpt:  “Be Thou My Vision.”