Sid: My guest by way of telephone, Dr. Michael Brown is Red Hot for the Messiah.  The reason I’m interviewing him are two reasons, number one, God wants him on right now and wants you, this is a Devine appointment for you.  Number two, we have just come out with a new addition of my book that God told me to write many years ago literally God came to me in a dream and He said, “More Jewish people would come to know him through this book than anything I had ever done.”  Today the book is in over a half a dozen languages, over 850,000 in print, more as we speak being distributed in multiple countries.  One of the top books in Hebrew being distributed in Israel, this is God’s time to reach Jewish people.  And the church is more in enamored with Jewish roots and more enamored with Rabbi’s in fact I was talking to Dr. Michael Brown and his chapter in this book and he actually deals with what we’ll be discussing today.  But Mike we’ve been friends for a long time and I have to tell you, I watch on Christian TV Orthodox Rabbi’s and the hosts of these Christian TV shows say this is my Rabbi.  How could an Orthodox Rabbi be a Rabbi for a Jewish believer in Jesus?  It’s mischugah.  That a Hebrew word for crazy, why are we so enamored with the Judaism rather than the Jewish people in the scriptures?

Michael: You know Sid it really is a very dangerous trend and tendency.  On the one hand in times past in church history there was terrible Anti-Semitism there was Jew hatred in the name of Jesus, there was the rejection of anything Jewish by many that called themselves followers of Jesus.  Well the pendulum swung now right across the middle all the way to the other extreme side where there is almost veneration for Jewish tradition.  There is this fascination, Sid a word that God gave me back in 1984 about the pull over of rabbinic Judaism is simply this, that the whole Jewish temptation is in the soul realm, it will fascinate, stimulate, complicate, suffocate, so be on your guard.  I remember we talked about that…

Sid: But let me add one more thing, where as that is true it is on the soul realm, there is a religious spirit connected with it also.

Michael: Oh, there absolutely is and what happens is instead of Yeshua being preeminent instead of Jesus being the central focus, instead of lifting Him up and living in the Spirit being central, it’s Jewishness that becomes central.  Its Jewish roots and Jewish background, but the problem with that is that it goes beyond recovering the Jewish roots of the faith in a legitimate way and what happens is that it becomes a fascination with Rabbinic tradition.   And Sid Rabbinic tradition by in large has a different origin.  I believe Rabbinic Judaism is the greatest and most beautiful religion ever made by man, but it’s different than the Biblical faith.  It is and the traditions that have developed through the centuries have been developed by those that by in large were the ones that rejected Yeshua or that ignored Yeshua when He came and have built on a different foundation, it really is a very different religion.

Sid: For those that this is brand new to, give us a few facts about this to establish what you are saying.

Michael: Okay, we all know that if you just read the Hebrew Scriptures what Christians call the Old Testament there’s certain questions okay, you had death penalty for things back then and how does that apply now?  So followers of Yeshua through the New Covenant see that He brought about certain changes that He said, “Okay let me bring to fulfillment what’s written and take it to another level.”  Well, what do Rabbinic Jews do?  How come they don’t practice the death penalty for say, breaking the Sabbath?  How come they are not stoning rebellious thirteen and fourteen year olds?  Well, traditional Jews believe this, God gave Moses a written law on Mount Sinai and that’s the five books of Moses that we have, God gave Moses a written law on Mount Sinai, but God also gave Moses a oral law, and unwritten law which Moses then passed on to Joshua, Joshua to the elders and the elders to the prophets, etcetera and it continues to be passed down through the Rabbinic traditions and the rabbinic study to this very day.  And what happens is that according to a Rabbinic Jew you cannot understand the written scriptures, you cannot understand the Word of God without the oral traditions and if the oral traditions interpret the written word differently than that’s how you have to interpret it.  Doesn’t matter if the slant is completely contrary to the clear grammatical meaning of the written text, no the rabbinic authority say that it is; it is.  And if you remember after Jesus finishes teaching on the Sermon on the Mount; the crowds were amazed because he taught with authority not like one of the religious leaders.  In other words, he didn’t say I heard this from so and so, who heard this from so and so who heard it from so and so and went all the way back to Moses.  No, He said, “I tell you, I tell you,” and He said it with Devine authority; there is a contrast in authority in Spirit and attitude and even in terms of how we interpret the text.  And if we are going to go the way of rabbinic tradition we’ve got to go all the way, which means to submitting to the rabbinic authorities and they will tell you that Jesus, Yeshua is not the Messiah.

Sid: Mike, there is a quote in your book, I guess it comes from the Talmud that literally gives authority to the Rabbi’s on earth over the Bible, over God.  Can you quote that to me?

Michael: Surely, there’s a famous account in the Talmud where there is a dispute between one of the Rabbi’s, Rabbi Eliezer and the other Rabbis.  He brings all these miraculous proofs to back up his decision and the other rabbis say we don’t rely on miracles.  Finally a voice from heaven says, “The law is according to Him.”  And then another  rabbi quotes the words, “Well, it’s not in heaven and they deduce from that also taking Exodus 23:2 the last words of it and completely twisting it on its head, giving the opposite meaning that the majority rules.  In other words the majority of the Rabbi’s say this is the interpretation then this is the interpretation.  It would just be like this, the Supreme Court of America may pass an unrighteous law, but that becomes the law of the land.  That is one thing on human terms, but you cannot now overthrow God and His Word based on the majority rule.  Throughout our history the majority rule has often been wrong in Jewish History and typical history and yet it’s laid out plainly in the Talmud that it’s no longer in heaven that you follow the majority where as the texts is actually saying, “Don’t follow the majority to do wrong.”  The words “Follow the majority” are pulled out of context and quoted to actually overthrow the voice of God.  And in the Talmud in the account that God laughs and sons my sons have defeated me.  I don’t think that it’s something to laugh at.

Sid: Wasn’t what we know as Rabbinical Judaism a great deal of it shaped to put a picket fence around Jewish people so we would not know that Jesus is our Messiah?

Michael: Well, basically if you just think of two tracks that are next to each other and then they start going in different directions.  Well the directions are so separate that Jesus doesn’t even come into play anymore; in other words, when people say, “Well, why don’t more religious Jews believe in Jesus?”  Well, it is not an option, He’s not studied, He’s not considered, there is an entirely different system that’s been built outside of Him away from Him.  “What about the prophetic authority of the Messiah?”  No, we have the traditions.  What about the miracles of the Messiah?  No, we have the traditions.  What about the plain sense of the Word of God?  No, we have our traditions and you see that these tracks are in different directions and there is no way to cross from one way to the other without breaking free from the binding rabbinic traditions.

Sid: You know, I see so many things going on because this is the set time to favor Zion, God is once again extending His mercy on Jewish people.  And the people that He has created to share the good news with Jewish people are Gentile Christians because, Roman’s 11:11 says “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy.”  And that’s why I believe Satan is throwing all these things down, you know in the path of Christians, especially being more enamored with Jewish roots then sharing the Messiah with Jewish people.  But this is again why this book is out…Read it, you will be fascinated with this and as a matter of fact if you are not a believer in Jesus and you are not Jewish there is enough information in this book that it will kind of sneak up on you, it will make you a believer in Jesus.  And then if you are Jewish everything is there, and if you are Christian you’ll begin to understand Jewish people.  This is the time to understand Jewish people; we have Jewish people from an Orthodox background to Jewish people from atheistic background Israeli’s, Jewish people from other countries, a holocaust survivor, a multi-millionaire, a PHD, a concert pianist.   Mike one fact why Jesus is the Jewish Messiah that comes to mind.

Michael: Oh, one fact out of 10,000 facts, there was certain things that the Messiah had to do before the second temple was destroyed in the year ’70; namely put an end to sin and bring the glory of God to the temple; there bringing everlasting attainment to sin, establishing righteousness and bring the glory of God to that temple.  Messiah did it, Jesus did it before the temple was destroyed in the year ’70; there is no other possibility there is no other candidate of anyone else that can do it after that.  Either He’s the Messiah or we have no Messiah.

Sid: You know, you wrote your PHD on healing and on especially Isaiah 53; one fact about healing from Isaiah 53 that you found out by working on your PHD.

Michael: Well, that the prophets had the holistic view of healing; it was spirit, soul, body and that through the work of the Messiah it was a  havrahtoe narpa lanu, and at the cost of His wounds there was healing for us, healing of the whole person, inside, outside, by the wounds of the Messiah.  Its Holistic it wasn’t just physical, it wasn’t just spiritual it’s a deep provision that the prophets had; the whole man, the wholly healed; that’s what the Messiah came to bring.

Sid: Okay, you have heard Dr. Michael Brown, he is one of ten people in this book, Jewish people from every walk of life that have come to the conclusion that Jesus in fact is our Jewish Messiah.  Now one of the Jewish people in this book is myself and I was involved deeply in the New Age and God is so gracious, He revealed Himself to me an in a spectacular fashion.  And I believe God is revealing Himself to Jewish people in a spectacular fashion all over the world.  And all over the world this book is in demand, but in the United States, it’s just getting started.  Why?  This is God’s moment of mercy on Jewish people in the United States if you just read the headlines of the newspaper, you see the world is getting more and more anti-Semitic, the world is getting just like Zachariah prophesize all nations will turn against Jerusalem to battle in the last days.  The only hope a Jewish person has, the only hope the church has, the only hope for the return of Jesus.  Jesus said, I will not return until the Jewish people say, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.”

Sid: I have Bill Morford on the telephone, and you might recall I interviewed him several years ago, and we made available a fresh translation of the New Covenant called the “The Power New Testament.” And it was so successful that Bill and I have discussions that we really need available to our Mishpochah an entire Bible with the Hebrew Scriptures and the New Testament all together.  And I knew of an approved Jewish Translation that was in the public domain published by the Hebrew Bible society.  And he checked into it and he’s finally put it all together.  Now you might say why does the world need a new translation of the Bible?  We have so many translations, it’s because this one is different.  There are several things that makes it different.  First of all, the power of the Greek New Testament was high jacked?   Now Bill Morford why in your opinion was the power from the translation high jacked in the other Bibles, but not in yours?  Why?

Bill: Because the scholars who are always appointed to do official translation are appointed for their scholarship not because of their relationship with the living God and they simply don’t know and that’s one of the reasons.  They don’t look on God to heal them; they don’t look to the Lord to deliver them from other spirits that are plaguing them and their simply unaware of the power that’s there.  Plus they use tradition, they know how it’s been translated in the past and they make minor changes as they do new translations.

Sid: But let’s go back to the King James that some people think is the language that Jesus spoke in, but was there prejudice there against power?

Bill: Yes, all the way back.

Sid: Because these people were not walking in intimacy with God or all the gifts of the Spirit.  Because you have some of the…. For instance, I don’t know if this is the best example, but in Mark 11:23, 24, “Truly I say to you that whoever would say to this mountain, ‘You must immediately be removed and you must immediately be cast into the sea,’ and would not doubt in his heart but would believe what he is saying is happening, it shall be to him.  Because of this I say to you, you must continually pray for everything, then for whatever you are asking, believe that you have taken it, and it will be there for you.”  Bill, I love it where you say believe that you have taken it.  That’s the type of thing you mean by a restoration of the power of the words of the Messiah and the whole new covenant.

Bill: That’s right and it’s amazing to me how many times the scholars translate the words take they translate as receive.

Sid: So you’ve restored the power that was normally neglected by the translators.  The next thing you did is you restored the Jewish roots. Now when the New Testament was written it was written for Jews by Jews in a Jewish time, and so a lot of things were taken for granted and not necessary to bring out.  As a result because it wasn’t brought out literally the Jewish culture was high jacked and the Christian which, and originally started with a pagan culture was incorporated because everyone needs culture.  And today we think that the culture that was incorporated was what it was when the Bible was originally written, but it wasn’t.  Now in 1984 you went to Israel and that’s when God started giving revelation about what we’re talking about, tell me about that.

Bill: Oh that was exciting. Wherever we went I would see things that, of course we were with a Christian tour looking for Christian things, but I’d see the Jewishness behind them.  And when we came back was when I really started dig deeply into the languages.

Sid: Well, you’ve studied Greek, you’ve studied Hebrew, tell me who you studied Greek under.

Bill: Arnold Goss is his name; he was on the faculty at Columbia Bible College, which is now Columbia International University.  He has a P.H.D. in Greek, and he was a personal tutor for me for well over three years.

Sid: And then who did you study Hebrew under?

Bill: Eliezer Ben-Yehuda who is an awesome scholar, he too has a P.H.D.

Sid: Now when I hear his name I don’t think of him, I think of his Grandfather, who is credited as the man that restored the language of Hebrew to Israel, the spoken language.

Bill: That’s right.

Sid: If I was to pick one person on planet earth to be mentored under it would be Rabbi Eliezer Ben-Yehuda.

Bill: Yeah, it was the Lord that put us in the right place at the right time.  He moved us to Lakeland, Florida in 1993 and we didn’t know a soul there, we just felt that’s where we were supposed to be.  And one month after getting there I was just as usual taking one hour early in the morning to translate Greek so I wouldn’t forget what I had learned and the Lord told me I had to get serious with it.  So I looked around first for a Messianic Rabbi, and there was none. So I went to the only synagogue in town.

Sid: What kind of synagogue was it?

Bill: It was a Conservative Jewish synagogue, and the rabbi there was there was Eliezer Ben-Yehuda and he invited me immediately to attend his classes that he was teaching.  And recommended a number of reference books to me, which I got right way, because I knew that there were so many Hebrew idioms and Jewish customs in the Greek that were intact there that I need help to be able to properly translate them.  And the rabbi gave me a huge, list which I got, and then I attended his classes and had a lot of personal time with him.  We met several times a week and it was just amazing, every question I had he could answer.

Sid: Now how many years would you say you have invested of your life for this brand new translation called “The One New Man Bible”, which includes the Power New Testament and the Hebrew scriptures, I might add the approved Hebrew Scriptures, and the Revised Power New Testament, and you call it now the “One New Man Bible.”  How many years did you put into that?

Bill: About twelve years full time work, and the last seven years, it was more than seven years ago that I first got the Jewish translation that I used as base for this.  It’s been a long time and it’s of course restricted my ministry we had a traveling ministry, but I haven’t been able to travel much.  Last year I had a total of three services at different churches.

Sid: Well, let me take you okay, so you actually put in over twenty years, twelve years full time in this project.  Now another thing you deal with that other Bibles don’t deal with and that is idioms, what is an idiom?

Bill: Well, an idiom that we like in this country is that “it’s raining cats and dogs” and we know what it means, or we say “it’s a gully washer.” But somebody who speaks a foreign language and just starting to speak English and hears that “it’s raining cats and dogs” and they look out expecting to see small animals coming out of the sky, but that’s not what it talks about.

Sid: And if you don’t understand the Hebrew idioms when it talks about removing your eye someone’s going to think literally that they are going to remove their eye.  When I read that I wondered what it was because even though I come from an Orthodox Jewish background I didn’t know these idioms because they were from 2,000 years ago.

Bill: Right and what we have to do is interpret the Biblical languages for what the authors of them meant in them.

Sid: Now you also deal with what you call, correcting the tenses, why did the tenses have to be corrected in the Bible?

Bill: That’s a mystery to me why they’re not translated properly.  And one of my favorites is the Aaronic blessing, which is not may the Lord bless, you but it’s the Lord will keep you.

Sid: Well, that’s so much better when the tense is corrected.

Bill: Right.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to have freedom in God, freedom that God wants you to have a freedom that you want to have.  And I have an individual I interviewed many years ago by the name of Art Mathias on the telephone.  I’m speaking to him at his office in Anchorage, Alaska and we’ll be talking about his book, called “Biblical Foundations of Freedom.”  And Art the subtitle says it all, “Destroying Satan’s Lies with God’s Truth” and I love what you did in the title and you have some of the letters in a different color.  So if you read the ones in the yellow color of the title which says “Bible Foundations of Freedom” you have “I Found Freedom.”  And I am getting so many wonderful reports of people that have read your book and it’s literally transformed their life from overeating to diseases of every kind.  Speaking of diseases you had an accident in 1997 and you did what every good Christian should do and you went to the elders of your congregation, they prayed for you and nothing happened.  And you found out from your sister who had recently been healed of tumors that emotions can literally, toxic emotions can literally block someone from being healed.  We don’t hear much about this, but as you learned about this, you got your healing and then you developed teaching and you’re getting close to 75% success rate in physical healings for other people based on understanding the blockages to healing.  And that’s what it really is there are blockages to healing; we don’t hear much about that.

Art: We don’t in church, but psychology and medicine teaches that all the time.  The whole areas of psychology called Psychoneuroimmunology and Behavioral Psychology teach these connections constantly that certain and they even get very specific; certain specific types of emotions will cause specific kinds of diseases.

Sid: Let’s go back to the accident you had in ’97; tell be briefly what you worse condition was, what the prognosis was and then the good results.

Art: Well, it took several months for me to understand what was happening because my right shoulder had withered nerve cells in my fingers and toes especially on the right side of my body were atrophy, were dying.  And no matter what I ate, no matter it hurt me, my stomach hurt; clothing as I learned would cause nerve pain in my arms, especially anything synthetic.  And as I worked through everything and now in apathetic or western medicine and then got involved in alternative medicine and I did many many different types of treatment with Alatson Alternative Medicine also.

Sid: How many different things were you allergic to?

Art: Over a hundred different allergies and these allergies were causing the atrophies in my fingers in response to the clothing.

Sid: I mean were you going to be like the old story of the boy in the bubble because he’s allergic to everything?

Art: Well, that’s where it leads to, we’ve worked with many that are called universal reactors and they live in a tinfoil lined house in Arizona because their allergic to everything.  And I was down to being able to eat about four different foods even though they hurt.

Sid: And they actually felt your vital organs would just close down and you would die!

Art: Well, they told, the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale told me I had less than two years to live.  As the nerves continue to die, they would progress and to the point to would come to a vital organ and then I would be dead; and they said that that would take two years or less.  Tremendous fear, now what’s happening?  And at the end of that process of going through everything in the medical world, that’s when my sister told me about her healing.  And I thought it was crazy, I thought it was the most outlandish thing I ever heard, but I was desperate I had less than two years to live and I was in constant horrible pain.  And at that stage I would listen and at that stage I would actually do what she taught me to do which I thought was…she taught me to forgive.

Sid: But wait a second, you had been a Christian most of your life, a student of the Bible, that’s just basics, forgiveness.

Art: That is true, but see I was taught a process that once I accepted Jesus all my past, present and future sins are automatically forgiven.  I did not have to do anything; it was all under the blood or under the cross since I accepted Jesus.  And you know the blood of Jesus is there to forgive us for anything, but there is something we have to do; we have to forgive.  The Lord’s Prayer says that we ask God to forgive us in the same way that we forgive others.  Matthew 6:14 & 15 says that “If we don’t forgive others, then the Father’s not going to forgive us;” 1^st John 1:9 says “If we repent He’s faithful and just to cleanse.”  But see, implied in all of that we have to repent, we have to forgive others; we have to actually forgive ourselves.  So those are the things I was never taught to do and then we’ve learned that if there’s an emotional pain in a memory, if a memory hurts, then there’s bitterness in that memory.  And when we’ve truly forgiven that emotional pain is gone and it leaves.  See that emotional pain is what causes what medicine calls a “fight flight response” and that’s, we’re on guard in that response our adrenal glands are squirting out a whole bunch of adrenaline and kartasol.  Our liver is putting out a whole bunch of sugar for that extra strength that “fight flight response” requires.  And in that process over 1400 different chemical and physiological and hormonal responses are happening.  And those chemical and neurological and hormonal responses are killing ourselves as we live underneath that tremendous “feedback loops” as medicine calls it.  And we find that as in medicine and physiology and the Bible all three teach that living in that state of alarm and fear and anxiety and bitterness creates almost all of our diseases.  And God can’t heal us when we are full of anger, resentment or unforgiveness.

Sid: I believe you’re at a tremendous success rate of getting people healed of all types of diseases, 75%.   I believe that as we learn more and get more revelation from God’s word, we are going to reach that 100% success rate.

Art: That’s our goal, but see in that 25% that aren’t healed.

Sid: Yes.

Art: Are those that just won’t apply this, they won’t do the very simple things that God’s word teaches.

Sid: So you think that if you had 100% effort of what you teach, you’d get 100% results?

Art: Not sure, I would go quite that far, but it would be about 95% at least.

Sid: I’ll take it; I’ll take the 95%!

Art: I’m excited about that, once in awhile we come to someone that has applied everything in every way that we know and there not healed, so in those cases were asking the Lord “What else are we missing Lord?” Because we firmly believe that it’s always God’s will to heal.  He promises that in many places in the scriptures.  And so when the healing doesn’t happen, we don’t blame the person, we don’t blame ourselves, we just ask God to teach us more and more and more.

Sid: Okay, so you learned Bible forgiveness and by the way I think most Christians that even understand they’re suppose to forgive, don’t understand Biblical forgiveness.  Your book is brilliant on that, I mean there are things that…I mean I’ve been in this over thirty years as a believer in the Messiah and moving in healing even and I’ve learned some things on forgiveness in your book.  Why is it that that isn’t something that is 101 basic discipleship?

Art: That’s a good question, I have struggled with that question many times Sid, because as you said, it’s basic, it’s the basic principles that are taught in Hebrew’s 6:1 of Christianity, the foundational principles.  But as humans we don’t want to take responsibility for our actions, we want to blame it on somebody else and Satan always tempts us to blame others or to blame God for our problems.  And we find that that’s one of the biggest blocks to healing is to become personally responsible for what’s going on in our lives.

Sid: When you genuinely forgave how long did it take for you to manifest your healing with a prognosis of two years to live and a horrible life?

Art: Oh, I first was exposed to what my sister was teaching me in October of 1998 and as I started working through and applying that and doing the simple things and not understanding how to do it; I had no body teaching me.  I started to forgive and just simple prayers and then there was another verse that kept coming at me during that time, 2^nd Timothy 1:7 says, “I haven’t given you a spirit of fear.”  But I didn’t believe that a Christian could have a spirit, an evil spirit.  I was always taught that the Holy Spirit and an evil spirit can’t be at the same place at the same time, but yet I knew that I was controlled by a fear of the future, a fear of eating anything, a fear of being exposed to over a hundred different things caused pain my body.  And so I was controlled by that fear and on January the 7^th 1999 I prayed another prayer, I said, “Lord, I don’t understand this fear, but I command this spirit of fear to leave me.”  So after forgiving the best I knew how and God honored that and then commanding the spirit to leave me, my healing happened instantly.

Sid: That is so amazing, but the thing that is so amazing to me is that it’s not just forgiveness, it’s every area of toxic emotion and God has given us a way to get on top of this.  Most people are totally ignorant.  “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.

Sid: Now I recently read a book and I am so, so, so excited over it because one in two marriages in Christian homes are ending up in divorce.  There is something wrong with that picture!  Not only does God hate divorce, but he wants your marriages to be what He’s called them to be.  What a witness they are to Jewish people and all people.  And my guest has written a book, his name is Craig Hill.  I have him on the telephone; I’m speaking to him by way of phone in his office in Littleton, Colorado.  And he has written a book of his supernatural communication between husbands and wives and supernatural communication with all people.  And I have to tell you, there are principals in this book that I have never seen before that wherever your marriage is its going to be transformed.  Now Craig, the title it’s an interesting title it’s called, “Two Fleas No Dog” and it’s a couple sitting on beautiful green grass looking at beautiful blue water and next to them is a shadow of a dog.  And again the title is “Two Fleas No Dog” what does that mean?

Craig: Well Sid, if we start with the subtitle, transform your marriage from Fleadom to Freedom.  I know it sort of an interesting title.  For years I was speaking to people and especially to single young people.  And I said, before people get married they are like a flea; and a flea is an animal that’s looking for a big dog that it can light on.  It basically a parasitic animal looking to another animal to get its needs met.  And I told people, many, many single people are like a flea and when they find a person they marry they actually think that they found that host animal that they can attach to and get all their needs met.  And then sadly after they get married it seems like that’s just not the case and they’re, they’re dreams and hopes are shattered, there are a lot of arguments, there are a lot of wounding and hurt between them and I wondered why is that?  And what people have found out; many many people is that after they got married they thought that person they married was a big host animal that would just meet all their needs, but they sadly found out after they got married that person that I have married is actually not the dog, not the host animal I thought they were that would meet all my needs, that person is actually a flea.  And now the fact of the matter is we have two fleas and no dog because the person I married thought I was the dog that was going to meet all their needs; and of course in reality nobody was designed to meet 100% of another person’s needs.

Sid: But, but wait a second Craig, I understand that for nonbelievers in Jesus, non-disciples of Jesus.  But why should this divorce rate be as high if not higher among believers in Jesus?

Craig: I think what we find Sid, is in human relationships people wound each other, people hurt each other and don’t even realize that they’re doing that, don’t even understand how it happens or why it happens.  And I think a big part of the reason is that even believers who would claim that Yeshua maybe is their source of life, in reality in their marriage are looking to a husband or looking to a wife to be that source of life to them and then when that person disappoints them they get hurt, they get wounded, they get angry, they close up, they withdraw or they lash out and fight back.  And that seems to happen just as much to believers and to disciples as it does to people who don’t even have a relationship with God at all.

Sid: Now Craig as I understand it the principals you teach from are not theory, they’ve actually been worked in your marriage and many other marriages.  But let’s take you back to 1975, you have a job as a pilot, you’re copiloting a Learjet, flying US mail in early 1975 and what happened?

Craig: Well, we had an interesting experience back in January of 1975 on the way back from Chicago to Grand Rapid’s Michigan as we were flying back across Lake Michigan air traffic control told us it’s getting very foggy in Michigan and you might consider turning back to Chicago.  But both of us looked at each other and said, nay we don’t want to sit all day in Chicago in the airport; I bet we can beat the fog in.  And we attempted to do that in Grand Rapids we made two instrument approaches and when we got down to the minimum altitude we saw nothing but clouds, no runway, no lights and on the first approach the low fuel lights came on and both of realized we had made a mistake.  Now we didn’t have enough fuel to make it back to Chicago and we weren’t able to land at Grand Rapids so we quickly asked, “W what other airport is open?” They said, “Lancing,” we blasted over to Lansing, ended up missing two instrument approaches there not able to see the ground at all.  Now we were really low on fuel and I was beginning to fear for my life!  And we said, “What else is open?”  They said, “Detroit.”  So we blasted over to Detroit and landed with just minutes of fuel left.  I never had so low fuel before or since in an airplane.  Any way about five-six months after that I went on a mission trip with Youth with a Mission in Europe and met a young woman who later actually became my wife.  And as we were going through the process of getting to know each other and talk with each other in the Fall of that year, 1975 I was telling her of course all my heroic stories from my life of things that had happened and I began telling her this particular story of how I’d almost perished in a Learjet by running out of fuel.  And she said, “I’ve got to ask you two questions.”  I said, “Okay, what are those?”  She said, “Were you both wearing light blue one piece life suits?”  I said, “Yea.”  She said, “Was the other guy quite a bit older than you the other pilot?”  I said, “Yea, but why would you ask that?”  She said, “We prayed for you.”  I said, “Wait, a minute, what do you mean you prayed for me, this was back in January of 1975, I didn’t even meet you until July, how could you have prayed for me?”  And she began to tell me a story that every day in their YWAM School, they have a time of intercession as a small group and they would, rather than just praying their shopping list of things they wanted to pray for the would ask the Lord, “God, what is it that you want us to pray for, what’s on your heart?  And many times they would get nations, they would get various missionaries, they would get various people.  But this one day, one of the things that came to their mind to pray for was just the word airplane.  And as they began seeking God, then saying “God, what do you want us to pray we don’t know anything about an airplane?”  They began to get supernatural pieces of a puzzle that the Holy Spirit put together for them and one person said, “I feel like this is a small airplane, but it’s a jet, it’s a very fast like United Airlines.” Another person said, “I see two people on board and their only just a pilot and a copilot and they’re carrying the US mail.”  Another person said, “I see that these two people are wearing light blue one piece jumpsuits; one is old and one is young.”  And another person, my wife, the girl that became my wife Jan said, “I see a map of the Great Lakes area and I see that this airplane is in the Great Lakes area and the problem is that it’s very foggy, the weathers bad, their having difficulty finding a place to land; we need to pray an release in the Spirit a place for this airplane to land and to pray for the safety of the crew.”  So this small group that was actually in the Bible School in Germany was praying at 9:00 in the morning or so and they prayed that through until they felt a release in the Spirit that okay, we’ve accomplished that, we’re done with that.  And then they moved on to another topic.  And as I was sharing this story with Jan, about six eight months later, she said, we prayed for you and the Holy Spirit had quickened to her that that very event was the thing that they had prayed for.  The strange thing was, after that particular prayer meeting, one of the girls in the group came up to Jan and said, you know that airplane we prayed for this morning?”  Jan said, “Yes.”  She said, “I really felt in the Spirit that had something to do with you.”

Sid: And she ends up being your wife!

Craig: And she ends up being my wife!

Sid: This had to revolutionize your faith level for prayer after hearing that story.

Craig: Well, it really did and I thought that is way that we ought to be praying is asking God what to pray.  I really believe Sid, that God has designed everyone of us to live supernatural lives and not natural lives.

Sid: Oh, I have to ask you a question, do you believe we’d be talking to each other today if they had not prayed?

Craig: I think probably not and we would have…

Sid: How low was your fuel?

Craig: Well, our fuel was down to minutes, we probably had three, four, five minutes left and I really believe that that small group that got that supernatural revelation from God saved my life that day.

Sid: If you did not have that prayer with three or four minutes left and what if it had been fogged in Detroit?

Craig: If it had been fogged in Detroit then we would have had to land somewhere with absolutely no visibility and with the equipment that we had on board at that time in 1975 there is a very low chance that we would have survived the crash because we would not been able to find the runway really very effectively.

Sid: Okay, so you get married to Jan it’s obviously God’s called you to be together.  You both love God; you both have common calls on your life.  You both are into the Bible; how could you have problems in your marriage?

Craig: That’s exactly the same thing that I thought and actually what I thought Sid for the first seven years of my marriage, because we would wound each other, hurt each other.  My experience was that Jan would close up and withdraw from me and then I would try to pursue her and say, “What’s wrong, what’s wrong?”  And she wouldn’t answer me and she was obviously hurt.  You know what I thought is that she just had some real serious problems from her background and that we needed, she just needed some counseling or some ministry and that would solve the problem.

Sid: Bottom line though because we’re running out to time, you thought that it was all her fault.

Craig: That’s right and what I actually discovered is the title of this book, I discovered that I was a flea.  I discovered that I was selfish, that I was looking to her to meet my needs and instead of looking to the Lord, instead of looking to God to be my source I was looking to my wife to be my source.  I didn’t know that, the second thing is I discovered that the enemy was using a very insidious strategy in our marriage.  He was using me to actually make my wife feel like she was worthless and here’s the kicker, I did not know I was doing it.

Sid: Now, there are people listening to us right now, men and women that are saying, “If I could only get my spouse to read that book, but I don’t think I can.”  What if they read the book, just party in the marriage, reads the book, could it make a difference?

Craig: I think that it would make a dramatic difference Sid, exactly as you said, “If one party gets hold of the supernatural keys that God gave me for our marriage; it only takes one person to make a supernatural difference in that marriage.”

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. And I am so amazed at these Sabbath years and how they’re tied in with progressive blessings or progressive judgments. And yet, it’s God’s heart for it to be blessings. And every seventh year for the last, what’s starting in 2001 and 2008, stock market crashes. But there is, it’s sort of like God is putting His name on it. And tell me about these amazing sevens that appeared.

JONATHAN: Well the center of this as a sign is the number 7. So on the greatest stock market crash in history, which happened on the exact day at the end of the seventh Hebrew year, the shmita, it was marked by 7′s. It happens, first of all, how much did the market lose? Seven percent of its value. It crashed because of the Congress’ bill that was $700 billion. How many points were in the greatest crash? 777

SID: You know, when I saw that in the newspaper, I couldn’t believe it. It’s like God showing his fingerprints.

JONATHAN: And even in the first one, the one that was caused by 9/11, how much percent of the market? Seven percent even in 2001. Here’s also a kind of eerie thing. That was caused by 9/11. So it tells you that all this had happened. Who could have orchestrated all this? Every transaction, everything in the world had to go together. Only God could have. And 9/11 was part of that mystery or it would not have happened when it did. That’s what caused it. The thing with the word “shmita”, it actually also means “to let fall”. So here is God letting fall the America economy and letting fall America’s reign as the head of nations if it doesn’t repent. It is God’s shmita.

SID: Now speaking of mysteries, there’s a mystery in ancient Israel to the actual ground where these various oaths were made.

JONATHAN: Okay. Alright. The mystery is this. There was a day when Israel came together. It was finished The temple was finished. Everything was there. It was the dedication day, inaugural day of Israel. Solomon gathers the people for prayer and he prays, and he intercedes for the future and prophetic words about if the nation ever falls away from God, this whole thing. It’s the dedication. Could there be a day in American history that actually matches up with that? And the answer is yes. The very first day of America as a nation, as a fully constituted nation, it wasn’t 1776. It was 1789, when for the first time, America as we know it had a president with Congress, all that day came into existence, on the day that Washington was inaugurated. Same thing happens. The nation comes to the Capitol. It’s called a day of prayer. Washington speaks. He speaks about God. He speaks about the future. And actually, there is a hidden prophetic warning that is in that first day appointed for a day like this. Washington gives a warning. No questions from God. And he says, here’s the warning in that very first day of America. It says, “We ought to be no less persuaded that the perspicuous smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained.” In other words, if America ever turns away from God, its blessings of protection of prosperity will be removed. Protection. And here we have 9/11, that first blessing being removed. We are watching as America turns away from God, it doesn’t turn back, we are watching all the blessings are going to be removed. And that is the warning that he said that day. But that wasn’t the only thing. Then Washington leads the entire first government of American on foot to a place to pray and basically to commit America’s future to God, to consecrate. It’s consecrating America to God. That was the very first act of the American government together, was to pray. So he does it. They pray in a little stone chapel and they consecrate it all together to God.

SID: Where is this?

JONATHAN: Let me just put in the principle here. The principle is that when Solomon dedicated Israel, it was on the Temple Mount. When judgment came, it came to the Temple Mount because the principle is judgment returns to the ground of consecration. Where is that ground of consecration? It was the nation’s capitol. Not Washington. It was New York City, and it was lower New York City. Where was it? America was consecrated to God at the corner of Ground Zero. In fact, not even just that. That church owned the land of Ground Zero. Ground Zero is the consecration ground of America. Judgment returns to the ground of consecration. And so God is calling back a nation. It’s amazing when this thing happened, not only that, there was one building, only one building that was protected from all these things. All the other buildings around Ground Zero were destroyed in some way or finished. One building was protected. Which? It was the little stone chapel of St. Paul’s, the ground of America’s consecration to God. And why was it protected? They said it was the sycamore that was struck down actually protected the place. So actually the harbingers, it was the harbingers. The harbinger we spoke about was the sycamore, the sign of judgment. But it actually saved it. So the harbingers are actually to call the nations back and save it, which also tells us that two of the harbingers, the sycamore tree we spoke about and the erez tree, the signs of judgment, happened on America’s consecration ground. That’s all where it happened. God is calling the nation back.

SID: But yet, that little chapel was spared. I understand some U.S. newspapers called it a miracle.

JONATHAN: Absolutely. It was the only they called a miracle at that time, not thinking, not putting it together; this is the ground of America. This is the America where Washington prayed for the future. What happens if America turns away from God? So it’s drawing the nation all the way back. We looked at Ground Zero. We didn’t realize that. You have two places on that day. You’ve got Ground Zero. You have the place where America was consecrated to God. And then you have the place where Washington gave the warning and America began as a nation, Federal Hall. On the day of 9/11, a shock wave goes out from Ground Zero, it goes out and strikes Federal Hall, the foundation, and it cracks the foundation. Like a symbol, the foundation is cracked.

SID: The foundation actually cracked.

JONATHAN: It actually cracked. The foundation of America’s foundation was actually cracked on 9/11 by the shock wave. And then we bring it home, and there’s so much we can’t do. The point here is that Solomon prayed. He said, “What happens, Lord, if the nation turns away from you?” God answers him. He hears a prophetic answer and He answers him from that day, and He says, “If it turns away it will be destroyed. But…” And here’s the “but,” and this is the word for America. Now He said this to Solomon, “If my people who are called by name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face, and turn from their evil ways, then I will hear from Heaven. I will forgive their sins and I will heal their land.” That, Sid, is the word for America. And it’s a word for not only the nation, it’s a word for His people. Those who are called by his name. Because God is calling His people to live, to come back, to break away, repent of complacency, repent of apathy, repent of the secret sins and turn back to God. Now is the time. This is the time of judgment. Now is the time because it says judgment begins with the House of God.

SID: David Wilkerson was a prophet. You are a prophet that’s going on really deep revelation of what David Wilkerson saw. What do you think is going to happen to America?

JONATHAN: If America does not turn back to God, there will be judgment. America will lose its place, will lose its place as the head of nations, will lose its economic blessings; will lose even its security. If any nation that turns away from God, it says, unless the Lord builds the house they labor in vain, unless the Lord watches the city, the watchmen watch in vain. So we are at a critical time. Now one other note, there can be judgment and revival at the same time because sometimes it comes through that. But the point is God is calling the nation to return to him. If it doesn’t return, as Washington said, then it will lose the smiles of Heaven. It will lose the blessings that made America great. That has always been the case.

SID: You know, I was reminded about the prophet Jeremiah. Jeremiah saw judgment coming in his lifetime. Jeremiah saw the judgment. He warned. He did everything possible. They thought he was crazy. They didn’t want anything to do with him. He suffered so much persecution. And this is what he says, in Jeremiah 9:23-24: “Thus says the Lord, let not the wise man glory in his wisdom. Let not the mighty man glory in his might.” I mean, what good is wisdom and might? “Let not the rich man glory in his riches.” What good are riches when the buildings came down on 9/11? But this is what God says to you: “But let him who glories glory in this, that he understands and knows me.” Many people say, just say a little prayer. But Jesus says something different. He says, “This is eternal life that you might know me.” And we have settled for cheap religion without repentance. Repentance means turning from your wicked ways to God in which He will forgive you and give you the power to be able to walk a righteous life. Do you want to know God? There’s only one way to know God, and that is to believe Jesus died in your place for your sins. Make him your Lord and come to know him. Yes, you can.

Sid: On yesterday’s broadcast I was interviewing Matt Sorger and he said that a highlight in his life occurred just before Oral Roberts went on to be with the Lord Oral prayed over him and said the secret to his success is not his faith although faith is important, it was his faith activated by love.  And Oral laid hands on him and said that he prays for this compassion before he speaks and I’ve been convinced of this from my own study of the scripture that if we can walk in the Lord’s compassion all things are possible.  Matt, you were in India in a Leper colony, now most people would be afraid to even walk in there; not only did you walk in but you had a whole team of people.  How could you do that?

Matt: Well, you know I know that they told me that leprosy is highly contagious and when you go in and you see a leper colony and you see these folks and I mean it’s not a pretty sight; you know their hands are gone, pieces of their face are gone; there’s open sores, there’s wounds.

Sid: But wait a second, weren’t you afraid when you and team members hugged these people knowing how contagious it was?

Matt: You know there was no fear in our hearts and I’ll tell you why, because there is something when you’re moved with the heart of God, it was twofold for me.  Number one my faith says that I’m covered by the blood of Jesus and I really have a revelation of this because I remember hearing a story of a woman and it was my Mom, because she had come out of some New Age background.  And when she got saved she ran into one of her friends again who used to read auras and see energy fields around people and as this woman looked at my Mom she said, “Oh what happened to you?”  What’s wrong with you I can’t see you any more, all I see is that you look red and you look fuzzy?  What happened to you?  And basically what that demonic power through her was seeing was the blood of Jesus covering her; she was covered from head to toe under the red blood of Jesus Christ.  So I know the reality in the spirit realm as a believer that we are covered and marked under the blood of Jesus.  So before sickness or leprosy or anything can touch us; before it can touch our skin it has to first touch the blood of Jesus.  And when it touches the blood of Jesus it dies, it can’t stay so when you’re operating with faith and trust in the Lord you don’t have to worry about that stuff.

Sid: Now, I’m told very few people went to that leper colony and I imagine what an impact when you and the team members hugged these lepers; they probably hadn’t been hugged in years.

Matt: Some of them probably never.  Some of our ladies in our team got down in the dirt and literally sat in the dirt and wrapped their arms around these woman; these leper woman, these leprous women and tears; you could see the tears streaming down their eyes, the lepers because some of them had never been touched like that, never been held, never been loved.  And as we prayed over them and just loved them and hugged them, you know and then we did the outreach and we went home.  I got a phone call two weeks after that from one of the Indian pastors and he was weeping on the other end of the phone.  He said, “Matt, I need to tell you we went back to that leper colony and when we went back the lepers told me that when that white man came when he put his hands on us we felt something in our bodies and the leprosy has been healed and the leprosy is stopped.”  And he was weeping with the testimonies of these lepers being healed by the love and power of God.

Sid: Just briefly tell me the essence of the four CD series we’re making available “How to Pull Your Future into Your Now.”

Matt: Yeah, you know I think a lot of people settle down with an existence or they settle for things in their life because they think God has you know relegated a certain blessing for a future time in their life.  Whether it’s a Devine healing or an open door or a fulfillment of destiny or purpose and they just they relegate it to God’s sovereignty and they say, “Well whenever God want it to happen it’ll just happen and I’m just going to sit here and wait forever.”  And then they ended up waiting and waiting forever, but the Lord has shown me a secret of how to access every promise of God whether healing, deliverance, breakthrough, favor, open doors, fulfillment of destiny, fulfillment of a call how to access that promise.  Even if it is relegated for future time and how to access it and pull it into your now moment.

Sid: But wait a second, if it’s relegated for the future how can you pull it into the now?

Matt: Ha-ha, well the Lord showed me in the Bible, because everything that we teach has to be based in the Word of God and you know we see this happen in the Bible where Mary and Jesus and the disciples they are at the wedding of Canaan.  And they show up at this wedding and the guys come out and their like “Oh you know there’s no more wine left.”  And Mary turns to Jesus and says “Jesus they have no more wine.”  And Jesus is like, well he is probably the only person that can get away with this, he calls his mother woman.  Woman, I don’t know how he said it maybe he said it very nicely “Woman, dear woman, you know, what does this have to do with me?”  In other words, he was saying to Mary, his mother, Mary, it’s not my time to do a miracle yet.  It is not my appointed time to do a public miracle; in other words it was not God’s timing yet.  She totally ignored him and said to the people, “Do whatever he tells you to do.”  And because Mary had vision to see what was in Jesus, she could see something that other people couldn’t.  Because she could have vision or see the potential Divinity that was in Jesus, that was faith in her heart, vision produces faith, which produces an action and she stepped out and she said, “Do whatever Jesus tells you to do.” And she actually launched Jesus’ miracle ministry.  Her faith and vision shifted the season of Jesus’ life and launched him into his public miracle, signs and wonders ministry, but she she pulled something that was for a future delegated time.  Because even Jesus said, my time is not come.  But because of her faith she was able to pull something from a future moment into that now moment where they were and release the miracle.

Sid: Have you found that happening in your life and the life of those that you teach this to?

Matt: Yes, because you know, and again I believe there are lots of people they settle for something less than God’s perfect will for them.  Some people settle down in sickness and they have a mindset that keeps them sick.  They say, “Well, when God wants to heal me, if He ever wants to heal me, then I’ll be healed during that time.”  And they settle down and they stay in their sickness.  But we tell people, Jesus He accomplished all of it already and if you can just see with eyes of faith and we pray for faith, because God is the source of our faith.  He is the one that gives us the faith that we need so when we point people to the source, there’s a faith there’s a tangible gift of faith a Spirit of Faith that gets imparted into people.  They begin to see what God’s will is for them now.

Sid: Matt, give me a real live example of someone that pulled their future into their now.

Matt: Yeah, I know of a story of a woman Sid, where she was bound in a wheelchair and she was going to a series of healing meetings and as she was attending each night you know she’s be brought in and they wheel her out still sick at the end of each night.  And several days were going by and her focus was in the wrong place, when she was coming into that meeting she met the minister out in the foyer and she looked at him and she said, “Please you know, heal me” and her focus was on the man and she kept leaving those services still sick, still bound in her place of life.  But then the last night it was the fifth night, she was wheeled in to that service and her husband carried her body up to the altar and laid her body at the altar.  During that time she decided, “You know what, I’m not going to look to man, I’m not going to look to anything I’m just going to worship God.”  As she worshipped God all of a sudden she could feel the presence of the Lord washing over her in waves and God gave her a vision.  In the vision she sees Jesus standing there down a long road and she sees Jesus standing there smiling and waving at her.  And all of a sudden as she catches the glimpse of Jesus she sees His heart; she sees His love; she sees His joy, she sees His desire to heal her all of a sudden the healing power of God flows through her body and she stands up totally completely 100% healed and walks out of that service totally healed out of her wheelchair.  But the key for this was she had been bound by sickness waiting for something to happen, but the moment she forgot about everything else; the moment she got her eyes off man; the moment she got her eyes off herself she got her eyes on to Jesus in a place of worship; vision was imparted to her from God Himself.  As a result of that vision, faith was imparted to her heart; faith then launched her into place of being able to receive what God had for her life.  Something that could have been way in the future for her, but she accessed it in that moment as a result of vision that released faith that causes miracles to go into operation.

Sid: You know I’m almost chuckling as I think about this but the ancient Rabbis say that when the Rams horn, the shofar is blown it’s not just a musical instrument, but literally it drives the devil crazy, mischugah.  Mischugah is a Hebrew word for crazy, now we’re going to have Don Heist on his CD that we’re releasing called “Take Me In” this has worship music with it, the anointing is so strong that when you hear this music it’s going to destroy every yoke of the enemy.  But there’s one thing missing and that’s the Word of God.  You get the Glory of God, the anointing and I want you to soak in this music and you get the Word or God and we’re making available my brand new DVD; it’s based on forty years of doing investigative reporting of the best Generals that God has on healing.  And when you get all these streams of insight on the Word together on healing, I believe as you listen to the full teaching, that one or more of these insights will be the key and then the Glory that’s going to come on you from Don Heist’s blowing the shofar. In fact, that’s what we’ll do… Let’s go to that teaching.

Sid’s teaching excerpt: This is interesting, the word sickness in the Greek in the New Testament can also be translated evil; isn’t that interesting?  That means sickness is evil.  Can you picture Jesus having evil on Him?  He didn’t have any, but He took, He bore your evil, your sickness on Himself, that’s why He said, “Father if I have to I will, not My will but Your will be done.”  He understood He had never experienced evil on Himself before until He bore your sins and your sicknesses and your pains and your diseases.  I have a friend, he’s a Messianic Rabbi by the name of David Rosenberg and he never got anyone healed in his congregation.  He honestly says this and one day he got angry and there was someone with cancer and he commanded the spirit of cancer to leave that person.  He never did something so bold as that, and the person got healed!  And now he, he’s got a formula, but its working; if it’s working, its okay.  Now when he’s praying for someone sick, he says, “Get out you spirit of cancer, you get out, no it depends on what he’s praying for. But, ha-ha, get out you allergy you know, and he gets almost everyone, not everyone but many people are healed; he never had any one healed.  You see evil can be sickness or be a demon and if you don’t know cover your bases.  Communion, the early church understood communion, we don’t understand it today.  Do you know why Jesus said, “Do this often?” At every meal they had bread and wine; they didn’t have water, the water wasn’t too clean.  Every meal they had bread and wine so what Jesus said was well look, if you want to fake people out, every time you eat do it in remembrance of what I did for you.  Three times a day, not once a week.  Not once a month, not once a year, not some priest doing it.  My Bible says we’re all priests.  Three times a day, and not only that communion is progressive; meaning you get just a little bit healed each time you take it.  Like medicine can be progressive right; you take your medicine for awhile and then all of a sudden the symptoms disappear.  Well your communion can be progressive and believe, believe that each time you are getting a little more healed.  Soaking, oh, that is so important.  You don’t come and listen to music laying on the floor with a laundry list.  Here’s something that I was thinking about even this morning, either lay on the floor, sit in a comfortable chair, play some music.  Say God, this is my time to be with You, to communune with You.  I’m not asking a bunch of petitions, I just want You and visualize because I’ve done this; Jesus like I do in my office at the desk, sitting there.  Visualize Him coming up and touching you; maybe He’s not even saying anything.  Maybe He’s just praying for strength for you, for encouragement.  But not your laundry list of things, that’s your time for you to commune with God.  I try to do that almost everyday.  Forgiveness is the number one area I have found that releases healing.  Now, forgiveness, many people teach is a process.  It is because feelings take a little time to diminish it is a process but is an immediate act of faith on your part because Jesus said, “I will forgive you the same degree you forgive other people.”  What if you were to die, how would you like to be 50% forgiven?  You wouldn’t no?  So are you going to forgive everyone?  Yes, but they don’t deserve it, well neither did you.  Does that mean that I have to trust that person?  No, they have to earn the trust but does that mean you have to forgive them because you will drink the same poison you want them to drink; you will drink it when you are in unforgiven.  Is there anyone that you want to drink poison over?  No matter what they’ve done in your life, not me, not me, no matter what they’ve done in your life.  Very important principle, the minute and it doesn’t take more than a minute to get offended with someone, spouse, child, someone you work with, someone you go to school with, the second you must choose to forgive them.  The longer you wait the more you mow it over the longer the process of feelings take.  You don’t ever want it, you don’t have to ever get there.  You can be walking in forgiveness twenty-four seven, but you must do it instantly.  I’ve seen so many people healed once they’ve forgiven.  But you know who most people have to forgive? God, God.  You’d say, well I don’t really have to forgive God, but you harbor something against Him because you don’t understand His kingdom.  The first one you want to forgive, and He doesn’t need the forgiveness, I might add, you are drinking the poison; you follow me, you don’t want that poison.  You need to forgive God, you need to forgive yourself, you need to forgive others no matter what they have done because it’s not worth taking the poison you want them to have.  Plain not worth it; besides that it interrupts your intimacy with God, you don’t want that.  You have a choice to worry or trust; Luke 12:22 says, “Then He said to his disciples, and this is a command, do not worry.”  Did you know that when you worry you’re in pride?  P R I D E, did you know that God despises pride?  When you worry; I’m just reminding you in the next time you worry you’re in pride.  When you are in fear, why?  You’re saying, I take this back from you back because you can’t solve it, therefore I’m going to worry which won’t solve anything either, but I feel better.  You’re divided; you’re divided when you worry…

Don Heist Shofar Worship excerpt 09.55.0 – 11:38.1

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah, his name is Chuck Pierce.  He has such a unique gift of prophecy and on yesterday’s broadcast he brought out that he prophesied back in 2005 that a black man would be the President of the United States.  He was warned not to say that, but that’s what God said, and that’s what he said; and that’s what became in the White House we have the first African American President the United States.  And then he said that, “As a result of this in affect it would lift the curse of slavery that because of the fact there was an African American in the White House.”  But yet he then had a vision and he saw that in May of 2011 there would be a statement made that would divide the United States even though it was now united, it would be even divided because it would hit at the root cause of slavery.  It would hit cause of all of the separations of peoples in the world and that is anti-Semitism.  You prophesied what would happen in May of 2011 Chuck Pierce.

Chuck: Yes, and Sid I want to say you know, by visiting with you I don’t know of anybody I would listen to this program; all of you listening out there each day because it’s easy for this man to bring us into an understanding of fullness.  Now, let me go back now, what I prophesied was, “The curse would be neutralized.”  Now I want all of you listeners to hear this, because this book explains this, the curses in your life can be neutralized without you really dealing with the root.  And what I saw was when a black man would become president it would neutralize the curse that had so pulled us apart in slavery in this nation.  But of course the root of that usually is money, but in the midst of it this curse would be neutralized.  Except then in May of 2008 God showed me that President Obama would come and make a statement that would start pulling us apart really from our root covenant plan of God which is our alignment with Israel.  So a curse can be neutralized, but then all of a sudden we can activate a deeper root which is anti-Semitism and things begin to happen.  Now notice what happened with President Obama when he made this statement in May, was this the first time a President had made a statement like this?  Absolutely Not, President Bush made a statement, see I think in America we get so caught up politically that we miss spiritually what’s going on and our alignment is a spiritual alignment and we have to understand our covenant with the God of Israel even though we live in America.  And in the midst of this what happened was, President Bush made a statement at one point about Israel and we saw Katrina sweep in.  We now see President Obama making this statement about Israel returning to its borders of 1967 which were indefensible until they gained a rule and established an order that would protect them and he said, “Return back so you can’t defend yourself again.”  That’s actually what he was saying, notice what happened.  The atmosphere of America changed so much at that point you see Joplin occurring, you see Alabama stirring up, you see an influx of elements in our atmosphere to awaken us that something is wrong in this nation.

Sid: Now do you see any tie in because about that time that President Obama opened his mouth and said, “Israel should return to its pre‘67 borders, the head of the international monetary fund ran into a sexual abuse charges?

Chuck: Well absolutely, because all of a sudden what you’re going to see is you’re going to see the ruling force behind all anti-Semitism is mammon.  And remember what Jesus said, “You can’t serve God and mammon both.  So the two always link together, now all of a sudden you see the leader of what is actually ruling economic structures show his true colors of being accused of forcing himself upon the opposite sex.  That also is anti-Semitic because anti-Christ works these ways.  It works first of all against Israel, then it works against prophets, then it works against woman, then it works against the lesser people whom God chose first in a nation to understand the land.  I’m telling you, and then it works from a perversity stand point, it twists what’s going on.  I’m telling you it is time now to defeat our enemy who is opposing us or else we get caught under this atmosphere.  I refuse for us to be caught under an atmosphere that God does not intend for us to walk under Sid.

Sid: Now will?  Let me ask you this as a prophet, is it set in concrete is it not set in concrete the future of America?  Will America go back to its first love, and that’s a love of God and a blessing to the Jewish people in Israel or will it miss its destiny?

Chuck: This is what I see, I see in these next three years, God showed me in May 2008, three years ahead to May 2011.  Now I’m looking into the next three years; I see what the Lord’s going to do is from region to region in America.  Do like what he did in the book of Revelation, deal with the church in that region to see how the present church goes beyond where they are into its alignment of fullness where Jew and Gentile become one.  If they refuse to do that, areas in America will come under the rule of the enemy.

Sid: What do you see, well let’s go back to the church what do you see happening to the church in the near future?  What changes do you see there with denominations etc?

Chuck: Well, I see the church as moving out of a church age into a Kingdom age and because of that we’re having to express Kingdom in a way in which we never expressed it before.  I don’t think church actually and of course you know this Sid, but for our listeners out there, church means has two dynamics; it means to gather for fellowship or to gather for war.  Now, what I think we’re coming into is an expression of fullness of Kingdom where you have to understand God’s covenant plan for Jews. You have to understand that the gentiles have been grafted into this plan and it’s almost like torah and spirit coming together and we have to choose to rise up into a nation above all nations and begin to demonstrate the power of God in a way that we have lost this demonstration in America.  Other nations of the world, if you’re listening, you have to hear this also because it will determine how a nation goes based upon how we see a Kingdom of priest began to rise up and demonstrate the power of the King who rules us.

Sid: Now, you and another of others took out an ad recently in the Wall Street Journal, briefly what did this ad say?

Chuck: It talked about our support of Israel.

Sid: Now, why would you spend money and put your reputation on in an ad like that and it came out right after the President’s proclamation?

Chuck: Well, I’ll tell you why; first of all I believe when God made covenant with Abraham, Abraham the Hebrew, the word Hebrew means, one who crosses over.  I believe that covenant that God made with Abraham that he brought Abraham into that he separated a people out of a nation that held them and crossed them out of Egypt and brought then toward their promise.  I believe I am a part of that covenant.  I honor the God of Israel, I worship the God of Israel, through His Son that He sent to display who He fully was, and who He fully is, I literally worship the God of Israel who made covenant with a land called, Israel.  And because of that I am willing to put my faith out on a line and confess that faith and confess that one day the fullness of what God has said will manifest in this earth.

Sid: Now, I don’t want to get too far drifted, I want our people to heart this, “What did God show you about China and Israel?  And what did God show you about the future of the economy of China and what they would own in the US?

Chuck: Well, in 1986 God visited me and showed me ten year increments of what would be happening; I called it the future war of the church.  And in those ten year increment what He showed me was specifically how China would advance and change in the earth to become the ruling economic power of the earth.  Now, here was the strange thing; I wrote and shared that China in 2016, I shared what would happen in all ten year increments.  But in 2016 I shared that China would then become predominate in its influence economically worldwide.  I actually had people address me because the IMS shared that China would not become predominate in its rule of economics until the year 2026.  IMS came back this year, we have a record of the article saying we were wrong, by 2016 China will become dominate in its rule of economic…

Sid: But what you see in reference to China and Israel is so amazing, we’ll pick up right there on tomorrows broadcast.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah, but there are things that stopping you.  There’s things that are stopping you from receiving the healing of God, there are things that are stopping you from receiving the peace of God.  Theres people listening to me your blood pressure is elevated, you have diabetes, you can’t sleep at night, you’re fearful that you’re going to be penniless and be homeless shortly.  You’re family is falling apart, what if you could pass up every problem, not as an ostrich, but because you’re walking in such supernatural peace and do that consistently and walk 24-7 in the peace of God?  Could you see what a difference that would make in your life?  My guest Larry Hutton was taught step by step by the Lord Himself on how to do this and since 1977 he’s been able to walk that way.  Now Larry, tell me about why you say worry is perverted imagination?

Larry: Well the Lord showed me that when we worry we’re taking an imagination that was given by Him.  For example, when you’re a kid you imagine, what do you imagine when you’re a kid?  Most kids where their imagination is still right, their imaging that they can fly, their imaging they can just breathe under water, they are imaging these wonderful…

Sid: Oh, they’re Peter Pan, their flying.

Larry: Their imagination is just always positive and thinking great and wonderful things.  And then worry all it is is you imagining something bad; you’re imagining something and the thing about worry is worry always dwells with the unknown.  And when we talk worry you’re talking stress too, because stress and worry are all forms of fear.  And so when you’re worried about something you are worrying about the unknown.  Well, my child hadn’t gotten home yet maybe they had gotten in a accident, worry, worry, worry.  You know what, the end of the month we may not have enough money, it’s always dwelling on the unknown.

Sid: This symptom I see in my body might be cancer.

Larry: There you go, yeah, you’re worried about something that you don’t know and so you’re imagination has been perverted, you are now dwelling on something, you’re dwelling on the wrong thing instead of the right thing.  God’s word is truth, that’s what we’re supposed to be dwelling on.

Sid: So when you dwell on the right thing God makes it happen, when you dwell on the wrong thing could you say the devil makes it happen?

Larry: That’s a good thing because you definitely got him behind the works of darkness so that’s absolutely a good statement Sid.

Sid: Let me ask you something that you bring up that not many people think about and that is worry, stress, fear, it’s really rooted in pride.  It’s really rooted on putting yourself on the throne not trusting God, explain.

Larry: Well the Lord told me, He said, “Larry when you allow worry to come into your life; or you allow depression or any of those negative emotions, He said what your doing is in essence taking me off the throne of your life and your putting yourself up there.  You’re trying to handle it yourself, that is pride.”  And of course He took me over to Peter where it says, “Humble yourself by casting your care.”  So I found out you what?  If I allow that to stay then I’m just telling the Lord, “Lord, I’ll handle this one without You, I’ll go ahead and worry about it I’ll go ahead and get depressed about it.”  Even though you’re not actually saying that, that is in essence what you’re doing when you don’t’ allow the Lord to just take care of that and not be stressed and not be worried about it.  But you can’t do it on your own, we talked about that earlier in the week, you have to use this supernatural peace that He put on the inside of you that is the grace that empowers you and empowers me to actually overcome.

Sid: Speaking of the pride and I do say pride with quotes “of worry” tell me about this pastor’s daughter that was a generational chronic worrier.

Larry: Oh, she was raised in a denomination, she was taught that you know, there’s going to be people in the family that are worriers and you just happen to be one so just accept your lot in life.  And she said she was that way for, I can’t remember I would have to pull the testimony out, it seems like it was twenty-four or thirty-four years and I’m thinking wow that’s a long time.  She just worry and she worried herself sick and just depressed and all this stuff and even her family members were telling her it is just because you have a gift and God’s made you concerned about people.  And she finally got a hold of my teaching and learned that God gave her His peace and that she didn’t have to be this way and it changed her life!  She was so ecstatic she was so thrilled that she said “I do not have to be this way anymore.”  And for now on my generation, my children and my children’s children they’re not going to have be that way because they are going to learn the truth of God’s word.

Sid: Do many people that get a hold of your teaching that suffer from sleep deprivation or insomnia have changes?

Larry: Yeah, that’s real good, I’m glad you brought that up because we had a number of instances, even while I’m preaching on this subject all of a sudden the Lord will begin ministering to me.  In fact I feel like there’s some that’s listening right now that you’ve had sleep disorders, in fact I can see one that you’ve been on different types of medication, the doctors have been trying different types of medication and God says that you can actually lay down in peace.  In Psalm 4:8 you can lay down in peace, you don’t have to eat the bread of sorrows, you don’t have to stay awake and have all kinds of things bothering your emotions.  You can actually lay down in peace and your sleep can be sweet according to Proverb 3:24.  And so I just lease that to you right now as your listening, that the peace of God that passes your understanding will garrison your heart and mind in Christ Jesus.  But yes Sid, we have we’ve had many people that have gotten a hold of this and wow, I don’t have to be kept awake at night because of worry or stress or anger or something.  I don’t have to wake up early in the morning and not be able to go back to sleep because of these negative emotions that I can use God’s peace and I can sleep like a log, not like a baby, like a log.

Sid: What actually happens to someone when they worry all the time?

Larry: You know, worry opens up the door for all kinds of problems in the physical body; it opens up the door for problems in their finances and their marriage.  It opens up so many different doors because worry, because when you stop and think about it, worry is sin.  I mean God said in Roman’s 14:23 “Whatever is not of faith is sin.”  Well, I can’t worry in faith, I can’t worry, I can’t use my faith to worry so if I’m worried then that mean I’m not truly believing that God’s going to take care of it.  And that positions me then in a place where I’m not hearing from God, I open up the door for these symptoms of sickness and diseases to come in.  It’s just not a place where God wants me, He want me worry free.  And like you said and let me just reiterate for those that are listening, Sid’s telling you the truth, I have not had a down day, a depressed day, a stressed day a strife filled day since 1977.  I’ve had moments because all of us face the moments, but it’s what you do when that moment whether it becomes longer than a moment, and you could use God’s peace to keep it short and sweet and lightful.

Sid: And now you teach on a Greek word that means cares, tell me briefly because I thought that was revolutionary.

Larry: Well the Lord showed me that the Greek word that were suppose the cast our cares comes from a root word that means, divided.  In fact it’s used when Jesus said a house that’s divided against itself cannot stand.  Well whenever we allow worries to come in and depression and stress and fears and it divides us from God, it divides us from people.  Of course we know division is not good we’re supposed to be whole in unity and harmony with God; and so I saw that it was just a trick of the enemy and a work of the devil to try to get us all messed up and divided.  It kind of, it’s a picture of even division in yourself that you’re you know you’re just messed up.  You’re thinking one way one moment, thinking another moment instead of being in this peace that God wants us to operate in.

Sid: This division now when I was reading this says the Greek word actually means to cut into pieces.

Larry: I know, isn’t that amazing.  It’s like…

Sid: No wonder people are not above and their beneath if their all cut in pieces.

Larry: And how many times do you and I hear people Sid, “Oh I’m just torn apart and I just feel like I’m cut in pieces,” and they don’t even realize that they are saying the very thing that the word meant in the Greek language.  It’s because their all torn up in the inside and their all messed up because they’ve allowed that depression and that fear and stress to remain.  And yet they don’t have to Sid, we don’t have to have it in our lives.

Sid: I’m feeling such a peace of God … I mean no worry no fear, no problems with your temper or your emotions and stress and strife and on and on.  Could you imagine living 24-7 in that kind of peace?  I can imagine that.  I can imagine that that’s going to be the thing that’s going to divide this world between the true believers and the phony believers.

Larry: Yes.

Sid: My guest Ruth Fazal is a violinist and there is something about the violin if the person playing the violin is a strong believer and has been under the anointing of God for years it comes out.  But a lot of other things are happening when people hear your music.  There are things happening to you, tell me about the time you were translated to Jerusalem.

Ruth: Well, there was one time that I was away on tour and I was in my hotel room and I suddenly found myself praying, but I was praying against the wall of the hotel room and I couldn’t get myself away from it.  And I just kind of had my head glued to the wall, but I realized, but I’m not at the wall of my hotel room I’m in Jerusalem.  At this point I hadn’t ever been there and so it was such, it was such a strong sense and I couldn’t leave I couldn’t come away from it and it was such a connection.  So I mean that was was an amazing time.

Sid: How about when you were translated to Hebron, that’s the place that Abraham was buried.

Ruth: Yeah, oh gosh that was actually one of these Glory nights at my home, and there was something that kind of opened up in the room.  Well, I knew well enough now that okay, something opens up I go as a child and I do it.  And I started walking and it was like down a pathway.  And now, I’ve never been to the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, but I know that that’s where Abraham and Sarah and that’s where Isaac is buried.  And you know I, something burning very much on my heart in these days is the Father Heart of God for the healing between the brothers Ishmael and Isaac.  And it’s really, it’s really strong in me and I know that that’s the next thing that God is doing in me and that He’s going to come.  Something is going to come out of this.  But any way on this occasion I’m walking down this path in the Spirit and I see the Father at the far end of the path and I see these two men walking towards him.  And I know that one is Isaac and one is Ishmael.  And I see them walking together, well their not walking together, but their walking toward the Father.  And at the point where they reach Him He embraces them and I don’t know if your familiar with that beautiful painting of Rembrandt of the prodigal son, it’s that sort or the sense of the Father embracing, but he’s embracing the two of them together.  It was so powerful and I knew at that time the Lord was saying, “One day you are going there to the Tomb of the Patriarchs and you are going to play that.  It’s almost like a playing it into being; and I don’t know when the Lord going to open up, I’m hoping it’s going to be really soon.

Sid: Well, you literally prophesy when you play your violin, do you realize that?

Ruth: Yes, yes I know that.

Sid: You’re prophesying over people, just as if you were to speak in unknown supernatural languages, you don’t know what you’re doing, but you’re prophesying in tongues with the violin.  That’s what I believe.

Ruth: Yeah, I believe that too, and I also realize that, I mean I’ve played also in places like I’ve stood on the tracks in Auschwitz and I’ve played.  And I know that there is a sense in which God, you know that he transcends time and so it’s like I’ve often thought of the image of like you know like a tree trunk, when you cut a tree trunk you see all the rings of the tree?

Sid: Right.

Ruth: And it’s like the Lord can come and He can put His finger on one of those rings and He can bring healing; it is like in our lives.  And so I think it is the same for a nation.  It’s the same for a people and so you know I feel at sometimes when the Lord takes me with the violin He says, okay I want you to stand on this ring right here and play.

Sid: Let’s do that right now from your “Songs from the River CD,” let’s hear “Dawn.”  CD Excerpt. That was from “Songs of the River” by Ruth Fazal.  And Ruth, I’m doing people a disservice because sitting under that music changes you.  It makes you more, I call it, “Heavenly Music” it makes you more Heavenly minded…I wish everyone would sit under this music.  Now you have an amazing burden for the Jew in Israel, obviously came from God.  Tell me about how that happened.

Ruth: Well, I think what happened was, my prayer has always been, “God, give me your heart.” You know, I wrote a song about it so I shouldn’t be surprised when God answers the cry of my heart when I say, “Give me your heart, Lord.”  And so what happened was somebody gave me a book of poetry from the Holocaust and from the concentration Camp of Terezin.  And He asked me to take some of the poems of the children that had died in the Holocaust and put them together with portions of the Hebrew Scriptures and just portray His heart in the midst of the suffering.  I hadn’t a clue what He was asking, this turned out to be huge it turned out to be life changing.  I didn’t, I’ve never turned back, but I found it at the end of two and a half years of writing this piece and going so deep into it that the Lord had literally, I don’t know how else to describe it, but that he had inserted the people into my heart.

Sid: Now, you call your piece, Oratorical Terezin which you have literally had concerts in Israel and in Europe and even in Carnegie Hall.  What reaction do you get?

Ruth: Well, always a jumping to their feet at the end.  The piece ends on an incredible note of hope and that’s I think what people are responding to.  Everywhere we’ve done it we’ve always given tickets, free tickets to Holocaust Survivors.  And like for instance the premier performance in Tel Aviv was on Yom Hashoah and the Lord planned that one.

Sid: The Day of Remembrance.

Ruth: Yeah, yeah and there were probably about 6 or 700 survivors of the Holocaust amongst the 3,000 people in the audience.  And it was just amazing because you know it’s like hope begins to rise in their hearts.

Sid: Now so many Holocaust survivors gave up on God because of what they went through.  Do you see any change in their heart when they listen to your music?

Ruth: Yeah, I think so.  I mean the thing that I feel with the Oratorio is that it’s a question to them that says, will you reconsider the goodness of God?  And certainly those that have been there, those that I have met, I remember one woman coming to me after the first performance in Toronto.  Actually a survivor of Terezin at the end of Auschwitz and she just came up to me and she said, “How did you know.”  And I just looked at her and I said, “Well, I don’t, I don’t know, but God does.”  And it was just, I mean I knew all the time that I was writing this that there was no way, I had no background in this, I really had no right to even address the subject.  But I knew that I had to go into God’s heart.  And so I think hope is the word that just comes and the willingness to even just consider again that God did not abandon his people.

Sid: Now, how did God change you when you went into His heart concerning the Jew in Israel?

Ruth: I don’t know, all I know is that it’s so undeniably strong that it’s like these people are my people.

Sid: Listen, I believe the dividing line of the true church and the phony church will be a proper understanding of the Jew in Israel in these last days.