Sid: My guest by way of telephone John and Anne Gimenez, many of you are familiar with them. Anne was written up in Charisma Magazine she’s Senior Pastor of Rock Church in Virginia Beach. And she is the only woman in America Charisma said pasturing a church of the size of theirs which is about 5000 people. They’ve been pasturing for about 35 years. John Gimenez is Bishop of the Rock Ministerial Fellowship some 600 churches worldwide. And John how old are you?
John: I will be 73 in November.
Sid: Do you know any Hebrew? Are you a “bissel” in Yiddish? Are you a “bissel mishuga?” Do you know what I’m talking about?
Sid: That’s a little crazy. What in the world are you doing calling America to the Washington Mall to repent and fast and pray for the survival of this nation? Now I know you did 3 or 4 of these Like in 1980 you had a million Christians on the mall and in 1988 I think that you had 1.2 million Christians. And then in ’96 and you’ve been doing these things. Why, what do you need this for?
John: Well I wish I didn’t have to do it but it’s always been in times of emergency; just like they did as you know in the Jewish family when there was danger or when the king was approaching they’d blow the shofar. Then the people would gather and for some reason the Lord is sort of tapes us on the shoulder and said “I want you to blow the shofar of emergency.” And each time we have it’s because there’s been a very very serious situation. This being probably the most serious ever; we’ve been there 3 times before. But God has used us also overseas in fact in Berlin. Before the Berlin wall came down we were called from Germany by pastors to show them what we did here in ’80. And they, after instructions and working with them, they went and they went and they stood before the Berlin Wall. And they prayed just like we did here; and of course Reagan came after that and that wall is down. Because we believe that it wasn’t that Gorbachev bring the wall down it was more like Jesus bring the wall down, and that’s the way. That’s what happened and so when God has called us once again Sid because we’re in big big trouble.
Sid: You know speaking of trouble John I received a prophecy from a prophet from India. It seems as though God is sending people from other countries to prophecy to us. And he’s a very very accurate prophet. I want to read his Sadu Sundar Selvaraj. And let me read just a portion of this prophecy. Because you know Mishpochah that this is as serious and as critical… I mean this is literally do or die for America to continue as the great nation that it always has. But let me read this prophecy to you.
Prophetic Word by Sadu Sundar Selvaraj: So when the angel of the United States of America came and stood before me I trembled and quaked every time a saw an angel of a nation, I always tremble and quake in my heart because of the awesome anointing and authority they have. When he came and stood before me he told me an awesome judgment is going to come upon America very soon, an awesome judgment. When he spoke I felt a fear a godly fear running through my bones and my spirit. This is not a judgment that would destroy the entire nation but something quite similar to what happened with the twin towers but it can all be prevented IF rivers of intercession flow in the nation. This is the word that He told me to speak and I saw that if you will take this seriously a hug river flowing all throughout the center of your country (That’s the United States of America) if it flows a river of tears, rivers of intercession. (Just as this angel was speaking I saw this huge white river flowing from the east to the west, only that would prevent this judgment that would come). And then I saw this angel where he was positioned and where he was standing guarding over the United States of America, he was standing very near to where the Statue of Liberty is a huge gigantic angel. If you read in Revelation chapter 10 John saw this huge and mighty. One of his legs was on the earth and his other leg was on the sea and he stretched out his hand he reached to the sun. Can you imagine what a gigantic figure he must have been probably as tall as the Sears Tower or the former World Trade Center. Such a huge gigantic angel standing guard over the United States of America. My dearly beloved brother and sisters as he was speaking words he said “This is the word that you should preach.” And then I saw the heavens open and from the throne of God this word came to me; visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children and upon the children’s children onto the third and fourth generation the judgments of God. Don’t you believe any of the false prophets who preach to you after 9/11 saying it was not a judgment of God. I tell you as a non-American as a holy prophet of God what happened was a judgment from God. You know that when I first came to America on 1991 on the 4th of July, your Independence Day. I was in a conference scheduled to speak. As I was worshiping the Lord I saw the heavens open before me and the Lord Jesus Christ stood there and He told me “Now I’m going to give you a word for this nation.” Among the 3 things that He showed me they all have come to pass. But I will tell you one thing that concerns you right now. I saw the flag of America. You know I’ve never seen a people like the Americans who love their nation so much and are so patriotic about their great nation. That is good; when I traveled in your country I use to see these huge gigantic flags that fly so majestically in some parts of the country. I feel very proud as if I myself was an American. The same American flag I saw in the heavens but instead of flying in the right direction it was flying in the reverse direction. And the Lord Jesus Christ was standing at the flag and knocking on the flag, and as He was knocking I saw the words “Last call.” Flashing, last call was flashing and flashing and then the word of the Lord came onto me. “This nation, the flag that you see flying in the reverse direction is the heart of this nation that has turned away from righteousness and is walking towards unrighteousness. She has turned her back towards Me, yet I am still calling her. Last call, last call, last call.” And for the 3 months that I was in the US during that period every church and every conference that I went to I was commanded to share this vision and ask the American people to pray for your country. But you know I was very aghast to notice that the Americans, especially American Christians take very lightly such words. Because you think that the non-Christian Americans deserve God’s judgment. You really don’t love your country. You think you love your country but deep down in your heart you don’t really love your country, you have such a self righteous attitude thinking that the non-Christians deserve the judgment of God and you deserve heaven. Don’t you think that when the twin towers came down many Christians also perished. When the economy of New York City came to a standstill how many Christians also suffered economic losses. Thirty thousand Indians working in New York City were sent back home, overnight 30,000 Indians lost their jobs. They came back home among them many Christians; they wrote to me for prayer. When the judgment of God comes remember even the righteous may have to suffer. When God’s judgments came upon Israel and she was taken captive to Babylon righteous Daniel was among them, he was a captive. When Israel was under the captivity of another nations righteous Jeremiah was there, right Nehemiah was there. Righteous saints also go into the captivity. Don’t you forget that, don’t forget that. You have been duped by all the false teachers and false prophets diluting you and deceiving you that you will always be protected. As a result, you’re suffering from spiritual lethargy. Hearing only that which you want to hear and switching off what you don’t want to hear. You know of you it is written in the Bible, those that have itching ears only wanting to hear pleasant words. My dear brothers and sisters the judgments of God are real, the countdown has begun.
Sid: John Gimmenez who is my guest, what do you think about the prophecy that I just read?
John: I believe it’s right on, God has spoken not only to our brother in India but we’re getting words from around different parts of the nation and overseas. We have people coming from India, people coming from Europe, people coming from South America. They’re all coming here to pray for us. Cause they realize that not just a storm or not just tidal waves or whatever. This is judgment from God! That’s a whole lot different than when you’re fighting man. When God says “That’s it,” brother there’s nowhere that you can hide. And we have been blessed, America has been blessed. But now God is saying “Either you repent, either you do what I say according to My word and you do it My way or you will suffer the consequences and that means the church also.”
Sid: You know I’m reading my notes on some of the things that you’ve talked about America for Jesus. And you said “One of the areas of judgment is our legal system.” What do you mean by that?
John: Well, right now we’re experiencing the spirit of Haman in this land. The same spirit in the book of Esther. Haman targeted God’s people; right now we’re having laws past that are targeting the Bible, targeting the church. There’s laws being prepared what they call “Hate speech in the name of tolerance or intolerance.” But really it’s aimed at the church so that we cannot speak as oracles of the Lord the Word of the Lord that condemns and judge, judge certain activities human activities. God said “I will not tolerate these things and we are passing the spirit of Haman.” In our court system is passing these laws in order to destroy the very present and the Name of God in this land.
Sid: John, I’m going to have you hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast. Mishpochah literally you can hear the shofar blast. It’s October 22nd all day. It’s going to be a day of prayer, fasting and repentance. It’s called America for Jesus; it’s going to be in Washington, DC at the National Mall… I’m going to be there. Why? Because I love the freedoms we have I love the freedom to be able to preach the gospel worldwide and I don’t want to see this stop in Jesus Name.
Sid: My guest I’m speaking to him by telephone at his home in Montreal, Canada is Gennady and his wife Svetlana. Gennady and Svetlana are Russian Jewish believers in the Messiah that are red hot for the Messiah. And they are the hosts of the Russian version evangelistic show that’s on secular radio. Right now we’re on two stations, one is in Israel and the other is in Germany that has so many Russian Jews that have recently immigrated there. And these Jews do not speak Hebrew or German that well so they want to listen to secular Russian radio and who do they get? They get the Gennady and Svetlana at the microphone. And Gennady in Russian what is the name of your show?
Gennady: Геннадий и Светлана у микрофона
Sid: Which means in English?
Gennady & Svetlana: Gennady and Svetlana at the microphone.
Sid: I like the sound of that. Gennady again, who would have thought that in Israel God’s about ready to open doors for you and Svetlana to be on Russian radio throughout all of the former Soviet Union. We want to get you on Russian radio in Canada. How many Russian Jews are there say in Montreal where you live?
Gennady: Only in Montreal it is only about 60,000 or more.
Sid: Do you hear that? 60,000 and there just like Gennady and Svetlana used to be. And basically you knew nothing about Judaism and the Russian Jews know the basic biblical festivals. For instance, most of them when you were living in Russia you when Rosh Hashanah was going to begin like it begins this evening you didn’t even have a clue what it was. Now we found out on yesterday’s broadcast both Gennady and Svetlana were raised in the former Soviet Union, they were atheist. They wanted to come to Canada, Gennady’s big dream was to be a big rock and roll start but he couldn’t even get a job. They actually came to Canada and they were very frustrated, but a couple befriended them and started teaching the gospel. New more about Judaism than they knew; Gennady said he would have been bored silly with that but the thing that got his attention was miracles, he saw miracles happen so he stayed with it. And one night you decided to open up the Bible and ask God if He was real, tell me about that.
Gennady: Well that was about 12:00 in the afternoon and I heard about Yeshua already because these people they were witnessing to us for about 8 months but I knew that God was knocking into my heart. I kind of came honestly to this question and I opened the Bible and I laid it on my chest, nobody was home and I said God “If you are real because I was an atheist really.” And Yeshua, Jesus my Messiah show me. I was a real Jew that was looking for a sign (Laughing.) And all of a sudden supernaturally somebody closed my eyes, it was 12:00 in the afternoon and I found myself in a vision in a long dark room.
Sid: Excuse me, had you ever seen something like this before?
Gennady: Never I would have freak out if I would have seen something, anything like this. If I would hear from somebody that they saw that I would say “It’s impossible.” You know atheism that’s what it is. It doesn’t believe in supernatural; atheism is a totally different approach. That’s where I was I could not believe in supernatural; I did not believe in God. But when I asked God just… I tested it I said “Lord, perhaps these people are right, show me if You’re real and Yeshua Jesus as My Messiah.” Somebody closed my eyes like fingers like that, I felt the power I couldn’t hold it.” And I found myself I see in the vision that I was in a long dark room and there was a table there and on the table there was a coffin. And all of a sudden somebody stood up and they begin to pull me there. I felt that presence of death, like with somebody in the grave and I felt that power of death pulling me in. And so I was really really scared and it was so real. And when I opened my eyes I saw myself again I was in my room and yet all of a sudden I saw another vision. That vision was with my open eyes now. On my right had side was a clear ball appeared and inside of that inside of that clear ball was a black octopus moving uncontrollably trying to break that ball and come out of it. And this picture came across my eyes from the right side to the left and disappear Sid, disappeared. I mean it was a miracles of miracles and when I came to myself I realized that God has shown me something. To me I didn’t have any question anymore if God is real, and Jesus is my Messiah. And now my second concern was, what was the message? And I ran to the phone and I called these people that were witnessing to us and God gave them the word for me. They said that the first vision, death is pulling me in already, I was about 27 years old at the time, who would think about death at 27 years old? And the second vision, after octopus in a clear ball it’s cancer, just about to develop in my lungs. The problem was I was smoking since I was 13 and by 28 I was smoking about 15 years and I knew that there was something wrong with me because I was coughing really really badly. But I couldn’t quit smoking, I tried many, many times and I couldn’t, therefore God showed me in these visions that death will take me in if I will not cry out to God. Because cancer is just about to develop in my lungs, that was supernatural. So what I’d done I just fell on my knees right away and I just accepted the Lord, I said “Lord, come into my life and help me.” And that was my acceptance.
Sid: But even though you did that Gennady all of a sudden your childhood dream was answered and someone offered you to produce an album in a recording studio and you… did you walk away from God what… you had a conflict what did you do?
Gennady: What has happened is when I feel on my knees and under my conviction I began to cry out to God. And yet in my mind I didn’t forget what I was demanding for. And yet Lord I will serve you with all, my heart and with all of my life I will serve You if You will allow me to get into the recording studio at least once in my life in Canada. And that was it. But 3 weeks later under the pressure of my family Jewish family; we had big Mishpochah living in the same city; under the pressure I gave up. I said “Lord, I’m sorry I can’t walk in this it’s too heavy, I can’t withhold the pressure. And I knew that I’m departing from a real God; it was not a test of me. And when I said “I’m sorry I can’t do this I have to go back where I was because I wouldn’t be able to live in that torment.” I left the Lord within 3 weeks but for the first 3 weeks God did not allow me to smoke. But then I came back to my smoking again. That was about March/April of 1985. But in June somebody approached me and said “I also play a bass guitar and somebody approached me and they said “Listen, we need a bass player and we are going the recording studio in September will you be willing to go with us?” And of course that was my dream, but for some strange reason I did not remember what deal I was making with God at that point. It just like the whole experience when I left the Lord it just disappeared no trace of anything. I just like came back to my old life.
Gennady: And of course we began to practice about July – August we began to practice for the record, and in September we did record a record; it took one week and my dream was kind of fulfilled there. I was there each day for 5 days while they were doing the record. We finished the record on Friday on Saturday morning Sid I was going back home in the morning returning home and I was driving a small Toyota car, 2 door, and I had the biggest car accident in my life. The car was totaled; the guy was drunk who cut my way; he made a left turn before me and I couldn’t stop. And it was heavy very heavy car accident and in my car and I was laying there right inside of my car right after the accident I didn’t come out yet. A lot of people were gathering there and they were asking if everybody is okay, yeah I was fine, I was okay but then I heard the voice of God. You know that shook me, and the voice was this, God said this way, He spoke to me this way “I have fulfilled what you have asking for but you never kept your word.”
Sid: Hmm, Gennady we’re out of time but we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: I was talking to Zona Hayes-Morrow yesterday this is Norvel Hayes daughter and she had a problem her husband wrote her a Dear John letter when he was in the military and divorced her. And a great miracle happened they got remarried and they relocating cities, but all of a sudden she’s got a chemical imbalance she’s got really low potassium and she couldn’t even walk and then they went into the Dairy Queen and he literally had to carry her in. So she got into a bed and he went out looking for… I don’t know what he’s looking for work or another apartment, and he left you alone and what did you do he left you alone and here you are a great woman of faith and you can’t even move.
Zona: After we went to Kingston we found an apartment the next day we were going to go water skiing. That morning Bobby got up and he told me that he was going to get the boat ready. I said “I’m going to stay here and he said “I want you to go with me I’ll carry you.” And I said “No, I’m going to stay here.” So everybody in the household left and I made them leave because I didn’t want anybody staying with me; and while I was laying in the bed I said “Okay devil you’re a liar I’m going to walk by the end of this day, I’m going to walk in Jesus’ Name, my arms are going to move in the Name of Jesus.” And I was still in the bed but my arms gained a little more strength and I decided to make my body work so I rolled out of bed and fell flat on the floor and it really hurt. I didn’t break any bones but I just knew that if I could get my leg around the leg of the dresser and get my foot around the leg of the bed I knew I could stretch my arms and pull myself up. So the exercise by stretching out my arm and pulling myself back up and I might have done that 30 times before my arms got some strength back in it. But I did the other arm about 30 times and I got strength back in it and kept confessing but I wasn’t stupid enough to think the potassium was going to come back in my natural body. I found a banana and I found a cardboard box of orange juice which has potassium in it. So I ate that banana and I got enough strength to feed myself the banana and drink that orange juice that was on that counter and my legs still didn’t work but the potassium enough to get into my arms and I had enough strength in my arms that I could pull myself into the kitchen. So I grabbed the handle on the bottom drawer in the kitchen and with my right hand I pulled myself up and then I used my left arm and pushed. And after that I was able to take my right arm and place it on the counter and I could try to let go and I’d fall flat on the floor; at least 6 or 7 times I fell flat on the floor over and over.
Sid: Wait a second, why didn’t you just stop, why didn’t you I mean why did you persist like that?
Zona: Because I wasn’t going to let my body rule me; I have authority over anything that’s not victory. My legs weren’t working and that wasn’t victory. And so I’m the type of person that I don’t never give up ever. I don’t count myself a failure in anything; I don’t let failure come into my vocabulary on anything that I’ve ever pursued in my whole life.
Sid: Okay, so your operating in this stubborn faith and what happens?
Zona: Well, I did that whole routine by faith like speaking the word and stubborn determination. All day long I did it; I didn’t stop and this was like I started 10:00 in the morning all day long and so by 5:00 when Bobby came in the house I was in the living-room chair and I looked at him and I said “Bobby, look.” And then I walked to him and he just broke and he began to weep. And he said “You’ll never quit will you.” And I said “Nope the devil is not going to win in my life, I will not let the devil win;” and because of taking authority over the enemies strategy Sid and using the weapon of the word and combining with natural banana and orange juice I started walking against all odds. So it was time to climb the mountain and receive all that He had for me and there’s power in talking a step of faith and not giving up. So because of taking authority over that and using the weapon of the word and building myself up even if I fell building myself up with the word and also with the naturally replenishing my body with any type of like banana, drinking orange juice.
Sid: Okay, that begs a question. When I hear these great like John G. Lake I never could picture him going to a doctor. I mean he had such great faith that he would put a disease germ that everyone that was dying from on his hand and he’d say “Doctor look at this” and he’d have a doctor look at it under a microscope and the disease germ would die. I mean but I know that you sometimes used doctors, you sometimes you even had kidney failure and you went into dialysis and with this great faith that you have, this stubborn faith, why would you resort to a doctor, why would you resort to medicine?
Zona: Well, the Bible tells us to be single minded and diligent in our walk with the Lord and that means we go forward and stay focused on our goal to fulfill out call in our life. So this is the thing the devil attacks when you are hungry, angry, lonely and tired every human on earth; nobody is exempt from the devil’s attack because we are the object of his devouring.
Sid: You know I had a friend that understood faith, and he had cancer and he was so convinced me that he was going to be healed and he died. But I noticed one key thing he got tired.
Zona: Exactly but the thing is this is the way, you know the devil told me this the last time the last bout when he tried to kill me again. He said “I’m going to kill you. You’re the closes thing I can get to Norvel Hayes.” And I said “Well, you’re not killing me, I bind you I have authority over you; you are not killing me and don’t ever appear to me again in Jesus Name go and never appear to me again.” And the thing is my dad calls it stubborn faith when you find a promise of God and you hold on to it no matter what happens. And I’m just saying Sid, the devil meant… what he meant for harm God turned around for good. You know yeah, I went on dialysis, yeah I had a transplant and yes the devil tried to just make me feel like I was worthless, make me fell like I couldn’t speak faith. Like I couldn’t …but let me tell you something the Lord spoke to me and He said it takes a lot more faith to carry someone else’s kidney and preach faith than to take a creative miracle and take advantage of it and then they abuse their today. They think that they can live and be and do exactly what they want to do… nobody you have to always be accountable for what you put in your body that is not health because we live in a physical body.
Sid: And you told me that before we went on the air that many good Christians die because God has a plan for them through medicine and they think that they don’t have faith if they don’t use the medicine.
Zona: When I went in for this last transplant I had so many well-known people call me and prophesied to me right before I went in. Well, the devil kept saying “I’m going to kill you, I’m going to kill you.” And I would say “I know what I know that I’m going to live, I’m going to live a long life because you’re trying to work so hard to kill me, you’re the father of lies. So if you say you’re are going to kill me that means I’m going to live,” and you know what it doesn’t matter it wasn’t until I was 38 that I finally sold out to God even though I was ministering. Ever since I was diligent to walk by faith the Lord said to me He said “This is not between me and you and your daddy, this is not between me and you and anybody no speaker not anybody is going to get credit for your miracle. He said “You make the right decisions you live, you make the wrong decisions you come home early.” To carry the mantle of this ministry you have to look to Me, you can’t look to anybody else because it takes more faith to go with what you’ve gone through and I’ve met you I meet every human on earth where their faith is. Just because they take a blood pressure medicine; just because they have to check their sugar 2 or 3 times a day; just because they have to be on a low salt diet that doesn’t mean that they don’t have faith. That’s where the devil sold them a bill of goods; you know people may admire consistency but if we do the same old thing every day we’re going to get the same results. So I made a decision that I was going to overcome the physical problems that I was going through and no matter what happened I set my goal on God’s best no matter what for. So I had to change and do what I have not done before.
SID: Now Patricia tells me she has learned how to create atmospheres for God to show up. Give me some examples of this.
PATRICIA: Absolutely. You know Sid, God has made us to be co-creators with Him, because He created us in His image and likeness, you know. And He’s a creator, and He’s a ruler, and so we have that anointing resident within us, especially in Jesus, who is our life, who is our creation. So as we come to learn the keys that are in the scripture, we can actually create realms and atmospheres. So for example, one time I went into a church meeting. I walked into the meeting and you could feel the atmosphere was antagonistic, actually, skeptical. There was unbelief in the room. You could just feel the atmosphere. People were sitting there with their arms crossed and I thought, oh, this is going to be an interesting night to serve the Lord. And so I asked Jesus, I said, “Okay, what do I do to break this atmosphere? What do I do to create a different atmosphere?” And he put on my heart an idea to start prophesying, giving personal prophetic words, because the Bible is full of keys on how we can create with God.
SID: Yeah, but wait a second. If they’re skeptics, they’re not going to want a woman prophesying over them. They don’t even believe in prophecy.
PATRICIA: They might not have wanted it, but that’s what they got.
SID: What happened?
PATRICIA: So anyway, I started calling out some words of knowledge and started prophesying over individuals. And you could hear the, ooo, ah, you know, because God of course is going to give an accurate word. And so all of a sudden, the oppression left, the arms started being unfolded, and people started leaning forward. It was almost like they had invisible “pick-me” signs on their foreheads, because they wanted the next word. And the atmosphere changed, and as soon as it did, then I could preach the Word, and then God could do miracles. But we had to take care of the atmosphere first. We have the power to create atmospheres and also to create realms.
SID: How about in the workplace? Give me an example.
PATRICIA: Okay. Well one gentleman came to me one time and he was struggling. He wanted to quit his job. He was actually making some fairly good money at his workplace. He worked as a mechanic. But he said, “I’m vexed in my spirit. I am vexed.” He says, “I’m a Christian that loves good values, but in my workplace, there’s crude talk, there’s dirty jokes, and there’s pornography pinups on the walls.” And he said, “I just have to quit. I have to get out of it.” And I said, “Well if you feel a leading to get out of it, then absolutely go. But what about the invitation by God to bring light into that darkness? Do you think that if you partnered with God that you could use the authority of the Word, the authority of God’s presence and change that atmosphere? Instead of being afraid of it, instead of being vexed by it, think about changing it.” And he thought, “I never thought of that.” So I gave him a few keys, you know, a few keys to work with that are out of the scriptures, and I said, “Why don’t you see these keys, give them a try and see what happens.” Well it was a couple months later, I met him at a conference actually, and he said, “Do you remember me?” I said, “Yeah, I do.” I said, “How’s it going?” He said, “It works! It works!” And he didn’t quit his job. And he said, it came gradually, but he had so much joy over even the idea of being able to change the atmosphere, that he just went for it. And he said, over time it actually changed, and the bad talk and jokes stopped, and the coarse jokes stopped. The pinups came down. And it became an atmosphere of peace because he stepped forward to do that in partnership with Jesus.
SID: What exactly, give me an idea of what he might have done.
PATRICIA: Okay. Well one of the things that I suggested him to do is to make decrees. Now it says in Job that, if we decree a thing it will be established. Now a decree is an official word given by someone in authority. There’s no greater authority than Yeshua. All authority in Heaven and in Earth has been given to him, according to Matthew 28:18. And so we can take his word. It says in the scripture that his words are spirit and they are life. So when we decree that word, it says Esther 8:8, “When you make a decree in the name of a king it shall not be revoked.” So I said, “Why don’t you in your prayer time start decreeing holiness over your workplace. Start decreeing God’s righteousness, start decreeing purity.” And so he did that. That was one of the keys that he used. Another key is praise. Just praise God, not for the filth that’s in the workplace, but for what God is going to do in the workplace. Start praising Jesus for coming in as a king of kings and the Lord of Glory and creating an atmosphere of the Glory of God. And he used a number of different keys. And one of the greatest keys, Sid, is the key of love, of course. We’ll talk about that later.
SID: No, no, right now. I want to know, no, seriously, I really want to understand this. Because I know that I’m created and you’re created to walk in the compassion of Jesus. That’s when the miracles happen, to walk in the love of Jesus. What was a turning point in your life to be known as someone that walks in the love of God?
PATRICIA: Well one of the turning points that was key for me was I came under a time in ministry of big persecution. I had always wanted to love before then. It was an aim in my life. But when I came into this persecution time there was just huge assault on international levels, actually, on just every different level you can imagine.
SID: Someone didn’t want you sharing this tonight.
PATRICIA: And one night I was, I said, “Lord, I just love these people and I don’t want to be defensive, but what do I do?” And up out of my spirit arose these words: “I declare war.” And I thought, no, I don’t want war, I want peace. And then I declared it again. I thought, what’s going on here, and it was bubbling up out my spirit. And the third time was, “I declare war. It’s a love war.” And all of a sudden I got this download and I believe I received an impartation directly from the Lord, and He started showing me how He loved the most vilest of sinners. Everyone who came against Him he loved. He never withdrew love no matter what. I thought, Lord, I want to love like you love. If I can’t love with your love, it says in First Corinthians 13, “If we don’ t have love we are nothing and prophet is nothing, and we have nothing.” And I thought, Lord, I’m going to make it my life’s aim to learn to love.
SID: How about you? Do you want to declare a love war? I want to declare a love war. That’s our secret weapon. We’ll be right back. And find out when you declare a love war you can change an entire country.
Sid: I’ve been looking forward to this interview because I have one of the generals of the faith sitting right opposite me, Norvel Hayes. I have so many questions of ask Norvel but I’m going to take you back Norvel to… I know that your mother was a great influence in your life and loved God with all of her heart and planted good seeds in you but because she was Baptist did not understand healing. And she died at a young age; how old was she?
Sid: She died at 37 of cancer and you had a brother that died of sickness.
Norvel: At 19.
Sid: It had to have a devastating effect on you as a young man to see here’s your mother serving God with all of heart and dies at a young age.
Norvel: Hmm hm.
Sid: What affect did it have?
Norvel: Well, I kept wondering you know how could God take her when she was such a good soul winner and such a blessing to the church wherever she went; whatever community we moved to and lived in. So later on in years later I started working with Kenneth Hagin and makes a statement one day to me he said “Norvel something I need to pray about” he said “I usually tell my wife I won’t be home for lunch I’ll be in the church all day praying.” He said he had something he needed to pray I started praying about it and I can’t get no answer so start praying continually about it. I’ve never prayed in my life; I’ve never prayed when I do that that I get myself to pray I’ve never prayed over 2 days full days sometime in the second day and I get the answer.
Sid: And what was that?
Norvel: Anything he wanted to know and he needed to know what to do and he goes to God in prayer. That was Brother Hagin now.
Sid: Oh, okay.
Norvel: And I thought “Well, if Brother Hagin can do that I can do it.” So I’ve always wondered why God took my mother, or she died at the age of 37 she was a strong Christian and she was a good woman. So I started praying, I prayed the first day, and the second day at the end of prayer and all of a sudden the Lord manifested Himself to me and said “This is fine, son I didn’t kill your mother with cancer I had nothing to do with it; nothing to do with it.” He said “She died because of cancer disease and I don’t attack people with disease to show them something.” I said “Well Lord she was a child of yours and she should have lived from 37 to now. It would have been 30 – 40 more years and look at all the souls she could have won because she was bold about it. But You let her die, I know that I don’t believe that you killed her Jesus but You are the healer you could have healed her couldn’t You? And all I want to know Jesus is why didn’t You heal her?” And He said “I couldn’t help her son.” And I said “Well, I don’t get that I couldn’t help her.” He said “Because she died because of the church she went to they failed to teach her about My divine healing power; if they’d have taught your mother about My divine healing power she could have believed Me and got healed, but they failed.” That’s the way it is in most all Baptist Churches.” Now there is some Spirit Filled Baptist Pastors now you run up on it once in a while and they pray for the sick but then that was like a disgrace they didn’t… you don’t want to get into that healing.
Sid: But you know something you said something to me before we started this interview most Christians even Spirit Filled Christians do not understand faith.
Norvel: That right.
Sid: And by the way since this is radio I’ll say this is it 86 years young?
Norvel: That right.
Sid: And I’m going to tell you this week he’s going to answer questions just as God answered his questions. Let me take you back to the time you had an encounter with God and got born again; tell me about that.
Norvel: I tried to give my life to the Lord as a little Baptist kid but it didn’t do much for me you know. I went to church you know and I knew God to a certain degree because I believe in staying out of sin and things like that, but me and 3 more men owned a manufacturing company in Columbus, Ohio. And at the end of the year would have an executive meeting 4 executives myself, and 3 move and we’d go over prices and things like that. And so the last day of the meeting our manufacturing company was on West Block Street Columbus, Ohio used to be the old Highway 40 and this is the days before the interstate. And that night when we got through the meeting because I lived in Indianapolis at that time. I went across the street and got into my car and began to drive home and I began to say a little prayer just a little sweet Baptist prayer what I had been taught, thanking the Lord for the day and thanking him for things. And all of a sudden it’s hard to explain like the wind or something blowing in my car and all of a sudden here come God. I mean He just engulfed me, engulfed me and I began to weep and cry for an hour and a half. He told me at the beginning He said “You are killing yourself working and you’re not doing anything for me; your killing yourself working not anything for Me.” At that time I was making 4 or 5,000 a week.
Sid: My goodness that’s good today but back then that was amazing.
Norvel: That was. The first year I worked for that company I didn’t I just about met expenses that’s all; they didn’t give an expense account or nothing they just furnished us apples that’s it. And so… but I finally I really learned I loved that business.
Sid: But God is telling you He wants you really working for Him.
Sid: And the Spirit of God came in and He tells you that and what else did He tell you?
Norvel: He tells me “You’re killing yourself working too hard and you’re not doing anything for Me. He said that He wanted me to come… and just a little bit later I never fed any poor people and I was counseling one day with a Pentecostal preacher and that had a good mission ministry. And I asked him I said “ Do you know what God wants me to do I said I pray and God comes and visits me real strong about once or twice a week He’ll just get me real strong and He’ll bless me and I said “Do you know what God wants me to do?” This Pentecostal minister he says “No Mr. Hayes I don’t know what God wants you to do but I can tell you how to find out.” And I said “You can tell me how to find out?” He said “Yes I can, I can tell anybody in the world how to find out what God wants them to do.” I said “Anybody in the world, boy you must be real smart.” He said “Not necessarily,” he said “Mr. Hayes now let me ask you a question and it will help you.” He said “Did you ever feed any poor people and I said “No.” And this is a 1st Baptist Church and they don’t look like they are poor as I know of.” And I said “No.” And he said “Have you ever fed any kids when their daddy left and they have to go to the city dump and take a stick trying to find some food to eat that day and sleep under a tree at night time?” And I said “No, I had never worked with them.” He said “Well, they are they’re there.” And I asked this Pentecostal minister you go there with them?” And he said “Oh yeah, all the time.” I said “Well can I go with you I learn pretty fast can I go with you to see how you do it?” He said “You can go anytime you want to.” So I worked with him about 7 years.
Sid: Norvel I don’t think God serious when He says that He concerned about people that are hungry and people that are starving. But we’re out of time right now we’ll be back on tomorrow’s broadcast. There are so many things I got to ask Norvel because I want him to explain faith to us, I want him to explain when he went to Heaven what he learned. I want him to explain, I want him to demonstrate how he worships.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. I can’t think of a better time for you to be red hot for the Messiah this is the Biblical festival today of Shavuot. Now what is Shavuot? Many of you know it by the name of Pentecost. As far as I’m concerned the best way to understand these biblical festivals, and a lot of people say “Oh well God’s through with them Sid. Why are you wasting your time?” Well let me tell you something if it wasn’t for the Biblical festivals we would not have such tremendous conclusive proof that Jesus is the Messiah. His whole first coming was prophesied in the Biblical festivals, and His entire return. Let me explain that to you from Leviticus the 23rd chapter. I’m going to tell you something else many people aren’t aware of this but I’m beginning to find out, I just spoke with a man that got insight that a lot of our understanding of heaven is in the Biblical festivals. By the way, these are Biblical festivals, these are Jewish festivals, but you know what God calls them something even stronger than Biblical festivals? Something even stronger than Jewish festival; He says “These are My festivals.” In the Hebrew where it says “My festivals” it could easily be translated “My appointments.” So God says “I promise to show up on this particular date.” Let me read this to you in Leviticus 23: “The Lord said to Moses ‘Speak to the Israelites and say to them these are My appointed festivals, or these are My appointments. The appointed festivals of the Lord which you are to proclaim as sacred” some translations say “convocations,” some translations say “assemblies,” but in the Hebrew it could easily be translated “rehearsals.” God says 3 things in Leviticus 23 verse 1:
These are My appointed festivals. So one they are His feasts.
They are appointments where He promises to show up.
They are rehearsals of past and future events.
Since we know this is Shavuot, or Pentecost, and by the way the rabbis tell us that it’s really the completion of Passover. Passover started 50 days earlier.
So I’m turning to the section in Leviticus chapter 23 verse 15 where it explains Shavuot, or Pentecost. Starting at the 15th verse: “From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the Lord.” This is an amazing, amazing statement here because it’s talking about what the Spirit of God is doing today, although this was written thousands of years ago. It says that we’re to bring in the 17th verse: “Two loaves of bread baked with yeast.” Now on Passover remember the whole deal was to have bread without leave, without yeast. At Shavuot we’re to have it with leaven, with yeast. If the matzaoh which had no leaven and leaven represents sin, represented Jesus and His body which was broken for us, what do the 2 pieces of bread, loaves of bread represent that have leaven, or a type of sin? I believe that represents humanity. Now why two? I believe that God is prophesying even back here in the older covenant that there is something supernatural when 2 types of humanity a Jew and a Gentile with leaven are offered up to God. Now let’s keep reading. See that’s the whole One New Man there, God says “This is an aroma pleasing to Him.” There’s something so pleasing when the Jew and Gentile become one in the Messiah.
The 20th verse: “The priest is to wave the two lambs before the Lord as a wave offering, together with the bread of the first fruits.” So what He is saying is you can see Him taking these 2 loaves and they’re long loaves of bread with leaven representing humanity; representing the Jew and the Gentile. We wave them before the Lord and the Lord says “It’s a pleasing aroma.”
The 21st verse: “On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.” Isn’t that interesting it’s supposed to be forever, and it’s supposed to be wherever you live not just in Israel.
The 22nd verse, and by the way do you know the book that is read during Shavuot it’s called the book of Ruth. As I read this next verse 22 you can find out why Ruth was selected to be read during Shavuot. “When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you.” Remember when Ruth was gleaning for some of the harvest, they left some of the grain there for her. It was also the harvest of barley which that began at Passover and ended with the harvest of wheat, and that ended Shavuot. So those are the 50 days that’s how we come up with that. Now remember I told you during Shaving, during Pentecost, we read from the book of Ruth. One of the things about a One New Man congregation is we take these biblical festivals and we say “Spirit of God breathe on them and show us things in the future Spirit of God. Show us what this means for us today for our congregation.” I believe this week God is going to speak to you. I believe as you listen God knows your name, God has every hair on your head numbered, and God’s going to speak to you. So starting in the first chapter the first verse: “In the days when the judges ruled, there was a famine in the land.” You know what, I believe that there… although there was a literal famine in the land in the days of Ruth. There is a famine in the land now because we are in between the move of the last Spirit of God and the next Spirit of God. They were living in Bethlehem of Judea, however, they then moved out of the land of Israel to the land of Moab. What does Bethlehem mean? House of bread. Now, how were they going to get bread in a famine? The word Judah, Bethlehem of Judea, means worship. I believe if they had worshipped God they didn’t have to leave the land of Israel because what happened? The further they got away from Israel the more problems they experienced to the point where the 2 sons married and then both sons and the husband died. So if they had just remained planted where they were I believe they would have had so much bread they wouldn’t have known what to do with it.
Now Naomi had 2 daughter in laws, one was Orpah the other was Ruth. Eleventh verse: “In the days when the judges ruled, there was a famine in the land.” You see the 2 sons had just died. The daughters would be able to find their own kind of people if they returned to their home. I mean why would they want to go to Israel, why would they want to tie in with the Jewish people? So Naomi was giving them really good humanistic advice, but humanistic advice is not going to work in the times that we’re living. One of the daughter in laws, Orpah, she kissed her mother in law goodbye, but Ruth clung to her mother in law. Why did Ruth cling to her mother in law? Because Ruth knew something she knew about Genesis 12:3. She may not have known Genesis 12:3 but she understood the principle that she would be blessed. She probably even understood the principle in the last days in Zechariah 8:23 says “Ten Gentiles will cling to the hem of him who is a Jew in the last days.” “Say I’ve heard that God is with you can you see what God is doing He’s orchestrating this One New Man even at this point.” Well we’re out of time.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Leif Hetland; I’m speaking to him at his office in Florence, Alabama and he is originally from Norway. God has baptized him with a baptism of love. And God has enough love to cover every single person that He has ever created on planet earth. Something is wrong; according to a survey done by Promise Keepers 6 of 10 men; these are mostly Christian men, are involved in pornography. According to studies I’ve seen the divorce rate is bad in Christian churches as it is in the world. There’s something wrong; Leif Hetland I happen to believe your description of the 3 chairs that I heard in your series “Father Loves You” gives us some answers.
Leif: Just to be able to describe I put 3 chairs up on the stage and then I point to each one of them. And I said that there’s 6.2 billion people in this world and that’s including you that are hearing. Everyone of our life are living out of these 3 chairs or we are moving between one or 2 chairs on a regular basis. I start with chair number 1 and it is the chair of commitment. Chair number 2 is the chair of compromise and chair number 3 is the chair of conflict. And chair number 1 the person is saved; and in chair number 2 they are also saved and in chair number 3 they are lost. If you are sitting or living your life out of a chair number 1 you are living in grace and grace is a keyword. Chair number 2 often you are living under the law and law is a tough marital partner even as a believer where you constantly have all the offertories that you need to do this; you need to do that. And no matter how good you try you will never be able to do enough. And what we have done is that we’re putting people on the performance treadmill of all these offertories. Try harder, achieve and the whole America Christianities enterprise have often ended up that we have offered an Ishmael instead of waiting on an Isaac because we’re running out of the wrong chair. And then chair number 3 that I will not focus that much on is the 1.2 billion Muslims; 600 million Buddhists; it is over a billion Hindu’s it quite a few other Jews that have still not had a revelation of Messiah.
Sid: But it’s coming soon; I can tell you that but go ahead.
Leif: And it is happening and that’s why we’re coming with this teaching and this revelation and we’re bring it to Israel and we’re bringing it to the nation for the people to be able to see and to experience all the passion and the power of a Father of love that is bringing His children home. So these chairs is just to be able to help people to be able to understand which chair you’re living your life out of. And what we have a tendency to do and I believe according to George Barna and you referred to some of his research he said “When it comes to the lost people.” And I refer to as chair number 3 and the people in church I call that chair number 2 they’re compromisers.” And he said “There is hardly any difference but he said that when it comes to behavior…” excuse me he said “When it comes to the the believer there is a big difference. But he said when it comes to behavior he said that it is hardly any different.” So what is happening is actually the church or we often as believers is becoming more like the world then they are able to see Jesus living His life in and through us. So chair number 1 the key thing is for Jesus to live His life in and through us then the Father is left with the honor and the glory and that can only happen through the Spirit filled life. But in chair number 2 you’re operating out of your soul; than means your emotion, will, mind and personality is what is in control. It is me against the enemy instead of Jesus against the enemy and the world sees something totally different. In chair number 1 the supernatural is what is natural. In chair number 2 as I say you will just continue to struggle and strive and as I was saying the natural is what you are going to see. And as a result of what we often done is we have watered down the word of God even if we we’re conservative we have believed the same but our experience level is far beyond what the Bible level is or what the Jesus level is. And the result is that now we have less expectation, less faith.
Sid: You know as you are sharing this what I’m thinking about there is a new phenomena in America and it’s called Seeker Sensitive Churches. It’s the fastest growing churches in America. And what they have done is that they’ve taken out the things that don’t work so they don’t have to explain why they’re not working and they’ve gone to the level of the people rather than the level of God.
Leif: Yeah and we’re seeing a trend there and…
Sid: And by the way I don’t see a whole lot of difference between what are called Charismatic Pentecostal type churches and seeker sensitive and I had to put my little commercial in there but go ahead.
Leif: I totally agree and I have the joy I have been ministering over 1000churches in 40 some states; every denomination and I have followed this trend. And what I am seeing now and I am not against and I want anyone that is preaching Jesus and is seeing people getting saved if they have a different approach I’m very glad to it. But I see very clearly the Jesus way the New Testament way and I still believe that 9 out of 10 people in the world getting saved today. The only places that where there is a seeker friendly and places where it’s very affluent. But 9 out of 10 people being saved in the world today what you will see is the proclamation and demonstration of the gospel goes hand and hand. Meaning signs and wonders, miracles, healings is going together with the preaching and teaching of the gospel. I have never once been able to see one Muslim, one Jew, one Hindu during all my time of travel just true intellectual convincing these people in a seeker friendly way that my way is better than your way. But I have seen more 1000′s than I can count to to be able to say “When Jesus does what only He can do and He’s left with the honor and the glory through ordinary people I think that’s still what is working all over the world. And 9 out of 10 people saved in the world today is being saved. And sometimes they tell me “Oh you you’re seeking for the experience or why are you focused so much on signs, wonders and miracle or this love stuff…” or they love my love message but the other side of it. And that’s the dangerous…that’s part of the grace or the love message is that some people they stop there. But the whole purpose for the Father to bring us into a love and intimate relationship isn’t to remove a way that is not comfortable with love because that is not comfortable with Him and that is not comfortable with His Kingdom. And then He wants to do something instead of us living for God He wants us to live from God and He wants actually instead of us asking Him to bless what we are doing we start to do what He is blessing. And it is a totally new paradigm.
Sid: Now would you say that most people who hear very very infrequently from God that real Christians are in this chair too. What is it like when someone moves from chair 2 to chair 1 which you call the commitment chair.
Leif: Yeah, and let me first mention that when I talk about commitment it is not the comment to do doing but to being. It is a commitment to a relationship, it is a commitment to son ship and to every other ship that follows after that. So suddenly now as I can mention to that in just in the last week that came from Columbus Ohio a people that experienced that. First of all in chair number l you are hearing God’s voice clearly, “My sheep hears my voice”. In chair number 2 it can be God; it can be the devil and it can be the flesh; you are not sure it’s uncertainty. And deception is very deceiving; most people in chair number 2 think that they’re in chair number 1. In chair number 1 you always have a person hand encounter with God; there’s an open Heaven and you can always say His Kingdom come, His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Another thing is you think Heavenly thoughts down here on earth. But in chair number 2 as a thing you will continue to strive and you will continue to struggle. So a different; I am seeing is that first of all I see a major difference when it comes to the fruits of the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit goes hand and hand. And that’s why I saw the balance between the passion and power you will see that reflected. And if you squeeze and bump into somebody in the chair number 1 and what’s going to come out of them is joy, peace, patience. If you squeeze somebody in chair number 2 you will start to see “Well, you preached too long or they criticize the sermon or the Norwegian accent then what is in them is going to come out. They start to defend themselves; they start to “You humiliated me.” And the question is “How can you humiliate someone that is humble.”
Leif: And in chair number 1 you are humble and grace is available to the humble.
Sid: Ah Leif we’re out of time will pick up her on tomorrow’s… oh on Monday’s broadcast; we’ll have Leif on all next week…
Sid: My guest is normal; normal is what the Bible talks about. Most people that call themselves Christians are abnormal there what tradition talks about. It’s time to be normal; every one of us should be normal. Jesus said “I’d rather you be hot or cold if aw you’re lukewarm I’ll vomit you out of my mouth.” Well my guest is red hot for Jesus; his name is Mark Pool. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out from a toddler I mean even before he was born his mother audibly heard that he would be a prophet to the nations. And she was quite a woman of prophesy; tell me a bit about your mom’s prophetic gift, Mark.
Mark: Well, mother could read my mail from the day that I can remember.
Sid: So you couldn’t get away with anything.
Mark: She would tell me I’m with the wrong friends doing the wrong things, exactly what I was doing and you need to cut it out.
Sid: Now you got a double portion of her spirit and there’s almost as if you see a ticker tape over people’s lives when you meet them; tell me about that or give me one specific example.
Mark: Well, it’s like it’s so hard to describe but whenever a lot of times as I’m ministering or being around people and the Lord’s anointing comes on me to give them a word then what happens is I just begin to… He just shows me I guess as up said it’s sort of printout of issues a lot of time; of past battles and victories.
Sid: Now I want you to pick one specific person and tell me about them.
Mark: Okay, well can I talk about you?
Sid: Uh oh!Sure you can talk about me
Mark: Just make it personal since we’re on your program and thank you. I remember when I first saw you; you know it’s one way when you meet somebody over the phone but when you just walk up and see somebody it’s like immediate the words that came to my spirit were just like a big huge bold headline printout like “Prophetic destiny.” And when I see that it’s like I just know that God has and I just saw you as God has a major plan for His church. And I saw that over you and I thought “This is a blessing reunion, it’s like you, when I saw you, you said “This is a brother I’ve had for you and your just now getting to meet. It had the same feeling when I was in Heaven meeting my brother a feeling of a completeness and that was a word over you was a prophetic destiny completeness and a voice for My chosen. And as I shared with you earlier it’s like God says you’re chosen for such a time as this to My chosen.
Sid: I believe that everyone that is listening to us right now it’s not an accident and I want to piggyback right now to the early 1990′s you developed a blood clot in your lungs and you ended up in the emergency room and you died. Tell me what happened.
Mark: Well, immediately it was just a millisecond I just sat up and begun to hover over the room and they couldn’t see me and I begin to realize that well number one I felt better than I ever felt. This body truly is like a tent and when you’re free of it it’s like there’s no description of that feeling; the greatest high that you can ever imagine it’s not a rush it’s constant feeling of peace. So I began to travel upwards as I traveled I went up to the portals of Heaven, not without going through a sphere and a strata that was a warfare that was just over the earth. I realized that was the later that was the warfare in the Heavenlies over us and it’s gained for us through prayer. And as I stepped into the portals of Heaven I began to rub actually the gate it’s one smooth complete piece of pearl. I felt the presence of somebody at the gate as I walked in and turned around. And of course I had never seen this person I had only heard of him once or twice because mother said he passed away you know at the age of seven before I was born. And I turned around and I looked at this person and I looked at him Sid face to face and pointed at him and said “Stanley I called his name to him. He said “That’s right Mark I’m the brother you never met.” And my goodness it’s so difficult to describe that because it’s like he was 7 when he was hit by a car in an accident crossing the road. And I would say looked about 25 somewhere between you know early 20′s a great stature of a young man. We had very similar features in the face. And he said “God’s here to give you a mention because I wanted to sit at Jesus feet, and he said “You can’t do that yet.” I said “Oh, and he said “No God has a message for you and the message is number one you’ve got to do what he called you to do; did he not call you while you were in our mother’s womb by name?” I said, “My goodness, God you are very intricate and he’s keeping records and though there’s nothing wrong with other professions you’re not doing what He called you to do and nobody else can do that.” I said “Whoa, but your right.” He said “So be the prophet to the nations He called you to be. And number two is equivalent to that and share with everybody you can over the airways, personally everywhere you go there is power in the agreement of prayer because it brings the body of Christ to unity.” He said “He must answer that prayer, the power of agreement.” My God I feel the anointing; the power of agreement in prayer and it touches the heart of God; it truly does bring answers to our prayers. And I did not realize that I had not been really in agreement with prayer but there’s so much more to agreement then I think we actually understand as the church. Part of it I’m understanding since I’ve met you.
Sid: When you say agreement you mean like two or more agreeing on any one thing or the body itself being in unity?
Mark: Both, because you can’t come to agreement if I’m not in unity; you can work on that one just like now. I did not even know by ignorance because of the given replacement theology that had been pretty much taught just like others get taught; I didn’t know that it was really really that important to seek out and go to the Jewish people. We’ve always heard you know to “Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem, pray for the peace of Jerusalem and carry on and do your thing before God.” But how could I be in agreement Sid with you unless you and I came together, this is a God ordained event. Now I understand because you’ve accepted Yeshua as your Savior, but the nation as it happens in a family it happens to the whole. And the whole of course is God’s chosen and His Church and now I’m beginning just now at this Middle Age to understand the agreement that He was talking about there.
Sid: You know Mishpochah, and I have mentioned this to Mark but I didn’t tell him all of the details.We recently did some television shows for “It’s Supernatural Television” and Mark was one of my guests and I told him we had signed with a secular television station that covers 93% of New York City’s total cable households; 4.2 million households. It also covers Hudson Valley, Connecticut, parts of New Jersey, and that is parts of Connecticut. We’re on the Time Warner Cable which is RNN TV Prime time Monday nights 9:30 pm. And I believe Mark that New York City and Israel are the two most strategic places on the face of this earth. And when the enemy wants to strike America what’s the first city he went to in fact you saw that prophetically didn’t you?
Sid: Tell me about that.
Mark: It is 3 days prior to 911 as you know, I begin to have dreams and they’re very restless nights and I call them actually dreams and they go into night visions and the difference to me that at often times I would set up in bed and they won’t go away and you just lay back down and they pick right up from where they were. It’s almost like into a prophetic – I don’t want to use the word trance, but you get caught up in like a Third Heaven so to speak. It’s like I’m there seeing this thing crystal clear. I saw jets traveling, I saw President Bush his entourage. I saw actually his wife Laura; I saw them flying in a jet all over the nation; the country and never landing hardly but just once and while and being very quiet. The jet almost had a wreck; not that it did, but I mean I saw this prophetically that’s when God showed me that’s the one they wanted. But he lifted him up above the trouble and I found later that it happened and I did see a crash; I saw two crashes and I saw innocent people you know as actually two-fold purpose. I didn’t share this with you before I saw that they were both like a wakeup call for America that you’re not without judgment you know.
Sid: Speaking about judgment and we’ll talk about that on tomorrow’s broadcast you literally saw one of the major cities in the United States underwater this year but we’ll talk about it tomorrow. When you got back from Heaven and got into your body was there a sense of disappointment?
Mark: Great disappoint there’s a two-fold battle that goes on because I saw everybody that loved me around me and I realized they had no understanding of what happened. But at the other side of it I felt relief in that I could be with loved ones. And the greatest relief Sid of all was that He said “I’m going to allow you; I’m going to allow you to fulfill what you really didn’t do if I had kept you. You were not ready for the final exam because you hadn’t done what I called you to do.” Folks we got to understand He’s serious about keeping His word and our commitments.
Sid: And you know Mishpochah Mark had never understood God’s call on the Jew and the nation Israel and the one new man; and this new move of God’s Spirit where Jew and Gentile are coming together. Not as two streams but the One New Man, the body of Messiah and we’re going to see miracles like we’ve only dreamt about. It will not be a superstar we already have a Superstar His Name is Yeshua Jesus the Messiah. And he read my book on the subject and he also heard me speak on the subject and something supernaturally transpired.
Sid: My guest Erick Stakelbeck is talking about his brand new book and the 2 update CD’s that we’ve just done. The book is called “The Brotherhood America’s Next Great Enemy.” Erick has a passion for end time Bible prophecy and he really got a direct commission from God when he was in Israel. As close to an audible voice as he has ever heard in his life he was told “Help My people,” that’s the Jewish people. I believe by your new book Erick you’re going to informing Christians throughout this world of who this Muslim Brotherhood really is. I have to ask you a question though, I have heard and I have witnessed this that many of our universities they have gigantic beautiful buildings schools of Islam, the professor… that’s all paid for by Islam. The professors all their salaries are paid for. Why would universities be so top heavy with Islam?
Erick: Sid I’m sitting right now in Washington DC. just a few miles from one of the universities you’re talking about, Georgetown University one of our preeminent educational institutions in this country…
Sid: Why would a Catholic university have a school of Islam (laughing) a gigantic school school of Islam.
Erick: Money talks. The Saudi’s Sid, the Saudi government or private donors from Saudi Arabia donated 20 million dollars. A Saudi prince named Al Waleed bin Talal donated 20 million dollars to Georgetown to have an Islamic center of learning built where Islamic studies are taught. So 20 million dollars to Georgetown, 20 million Saudi dollars at Harvard, probably one of our most famous educational institutions they are literally Sid buying influence in this country on college campuses. In my book I talk about what’s going on campuses with radical Islamist. One group in particular the Muslim’s Student Association they are the largest Muslim group in North America on college campuses. They’re in hundreds and hundreds of college campuses across the U.S. across Canada. This is a Muslim Brotherhood front group, and it’s not just me saying it Sid the Muslim Brotherhood’s own documents identify this Muslim Student’s Association as a Muslim Brotherhood organization. Yet, this is the most influential student group among Muslims on our college campuses, and they are the leaders many times of this vicious anti-Semitism we see at our universities.
Sid: You know what I find interesting, I believe this next outpouring of God’s Spirit it’s going to directly affect young people, college students. It’s almost as if the devil is putting in his biggest forces against these college students with the Muslim agenda.
Erick: Yeah. The forces of evil want to get them while they’re young Sid. You know the Marxist, the communist, they used to say “We might not get you, but we’ll get your children” and the Islamist see it the same way. The enemy as you said “The devil works through these radical evil forces to get the youth first.”
Sid: Let me take back to these secret documents that you actually spell out in your new book. How were they so foolish to let these documents to be stolen that have their entire strategy from A-Z?
Erick: You know Sid this is real James Bond type stuff. Now listen to this a leading Muslim Brotherhood operative living just outside of Washington D.C. was captured filming the Bay Bridge in Maryland. It’s a large long structure in Maryland that a lot of traffic goes over each and every day.
Sid: I remember seeing that on the news, but go ahead.
Erick: Yeah this Muslim Brotherhood operative was captured filming it. Hmm, I guess it was just for the scenery right? So the FBI raided his home outside of Washington D.C. and what they found Sid was beneath his basement a secret sub-basement which contained some 80 boxes of Muslim Brotherhood documents written in Arabic. So the FBI got a hold of these documents, they translated them and in these documents they outline the Brotherhood’s plan for America. In their own words Sid it is “To destroy western civilization America from within.” So we have in our possession that our government has in its possession the Muslim Brotherhood official blueprint for America. Instead of crushing this group, defeating this group which is inherently anti-American we are empowering them and embracing them Sid at every…
Sid: Explain this to me, here we have these secret documents; here we know their strategy; here we know who they are. Why is it in our government in the highest echelons we have Muslims?
Erick: I think it’s two-fold Sid, number 1 there’s one part of our government which says “Hey the Muslim Brotherhood they don’t really mean what they say; how could they look at them these guys wear suits and ties, they’re eloquent, they’re western educated; these are good guys we can trust them.” Others in our government kind of share the Brotherhood goal of seeing a different kind of America. They are not fans of Judeo-Christian western civilization. Now the left doesn’t want Sharia law, but they don’t want Judeo-Christian Biblically based kind of principles in this country either. Strange bedfellows we’ve seen them work together. So these Islamist have been able to con themselves into advising our government Sid. In the book I name names how Muslim Brotherhood linked individuals are actually advising our Department of Homeland Security, our FBI…
Sid: (Laughing) Oh no!
Erick: Yes on its counter terrorism policies it is the fox guarding the hen house. We’re in big trouble.
Sid: Alright our time is slipping away, but on this secret strategy explain what their strategy is of starting a Muslim state within a state in the United States.
Erick: Their working it to perfection in Europe. Look at Europe Sid as kind of the test lab for what the Muslim Brotherhood wants to do in America. Now this state within a state that you mentioned, an enclave, an Islamic enclave it starts with the mosque that is a key point that the Muslim Brotherhood makes in all of their strategy documents. “We need to build large Islamic centers,” as they call them “from coast to coast.”
Sid: I remember where 9/11 happened the big controversy they were going to bring… you know just build a neighborhood center for the youth like a YMCA. Why the big uproar? I remember all the news commentators defending them.
Erick: The Ground Zero Mosque which by the way President Obama came out and supported. So they want to duplicate those Ground Zero mosques Sid in every corner of the country including the Heartland in the Bible Belt. They’re succeeding I describe it in the book. Once the mosque is built then the enclave can begin all of the property, all of the homes around the Islamic center get bought by the Muslim Brotherhood, by their allies. In their documents they call the mosques they compare it to a beehive, the center of their activity. Now we see this in Europe they’re doing it to perfection. I’ve walked the streets of these enclaves Sid in Europe. Places like London, Germany, Paris I describe it in the book how these Muslim areas are no go zones for even the police are afraid to go there. You have many little states within a state controlled by Islamic law operated in places like Great Britain, in east London.
Sid: Why would the police be afraid to go there
Erick: Because they know they will be attacked they are not welcome. These enclaves, the folks who live in these Islamic enclaves make it abundantly clear to the police they not welcome.
Sid: So… and this is the strategy for America?
Erick: It is a strategy for America and we’re seeing drips and drabs of it. We’ve seen a number of mosques in America double since the year 2000 alone Sid. We see a place like Dearborn, Michigan which has the largest Arab Muslim population in America. We had an incident there Sid in 2012 where a group of Christian evangelists was at an Arab festival in Dearborn, Michigan just outside of Detroit. They were preaching the gospel to Muslims, Sid they were literally stoned. The Muslims there surrounded them, dozens, and threw large stones at these Christian evangelists. This is outside of Detroit, Michigan this in the United States of America. Evangelists stoned this is Dearborn, Michigan it’s a place to watch, a Hezbollah hot bed I might add.
Sid: I believe that every Christian should have read Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler to find out what Hitler was up to before he did what he said he would do. I believe that every Christian must read your book on the Muslim Brotherhood which outlines exactly what they are going to do before they do it so we can pray against this.
Sid: My guest Julie True, we just finished a special session of Julie’s music because I found out the secret to being irresistible to God is to be a worshiper of God 24-7. So Julie we did something different when you recorded this is our studio. We had the audience lay on the floor on their back worshiping God and soaking in the amazing presence of God that comes from your worship. Now tell me what the instrumentation was for this special DVD, CD we did.
Julie: Well, we brought our regular soaking worship team from Tennessee up andwe had Tom Schnoz who is amazing Cello player and he plays many many instruments but harp and flute and guitar. And Linda Burnsdorf our violinist and Aaron Smith our Keyboard player. And He plays what we call pad sounds that help just create an atmosphere and make things feel sound smooth and comfortable instead of like abrupt changes between changes between songs. And we just got before the Lord and in His presence and sang and opened up the Heavens.
Sid: Now most of the music you do is called spontaneous songs; what exact is that?
Julie: Well, my definition is that it’s a song that has no…you’ve never heard it before. The person singing it has never heard it before it’s just a song that comes up in your heart and you sing it and you play it in that moment. And you have your eyes fixed on Jesus, you’re heart is set on Him and you’re just singing from that place. And it’s really fresh, it’s like I what I would call a now word; it’s a now word; it’s not something that’s been written in another time; and those have there place as well but it’s just just really fresh.
Sid: You know I believe that when you do do your spontaneous songs not only is the music from Heaven but the words are from Heaven and you are prophesying to the deepest needs in a human. That’s why I get so many reports of people that have insomnia that are able to sleep; children you know they don’t scream and they sleep. People with high blood pressure it comes down and so many other miracles. Tell me about that woman that took your music to her father who was literally dying in the hospital and what happened.
Julie: That was amazing Mary her father was 91 years old he was really going down hill and couldn’t swallow; his heart rate was very low. And they basically prepared her for the fact that he was not going to live. She took my music into the hospital and all of a sudden…they had him on checking his vitals and everything constantly; hooked up to a heart monitor. They weren’t even giving him any medication or food because they thought that it was his time to go. And anyway the next morning she get a call, Mary gets a call and he is sitting up; her father is sitting up in the nurse station eating pudding and smiling and talking with everyone. And over 2 years he had not been able to talk and make sense. So I mean it as an amazing…
Sid: Do other people play your music for people with say Alzheimer’s or things like that?
Julie: Yes, there’s lots and lots of people who have had mental illnesses or you know developmental delays and autistic kind of situations. And sadness and hearts that are just you know broken hearts and that sort of thing. I get lots of reports from those kind of people.
Sid: And your son; he has – his name is Benjamin I love that name; he has autism but you’ve had major breakthroughs. In fact you just had one; tell me about that with your son.
Julie: Well, yes and we have never called it by name a disease because we have just chosen not to agree with it because we believe that God is healing him and He is healing him. I’ve always prayed for my children; I have 4 children but I had never ever remember sitting on the bed and worshiping. And so the other night, this was last week. I was putting him to bed and I was exhausted and he had been really…his behavior that day had been very difficult for us and it’s hard because he doesn’t have you know he doesn’t respond like a typical child would. And so I was just sitting on his bed and I was just worshiping and my husband always keeps my music playing in Benjamin’s room so it was playing in the background. And I just started singing from my heart to God and singing in the Spirit and he grabbed Benjamin grabbed; “Mommy hold my hand.” He’s 7 years old and he said “Keep praying for me Mom, keep praying for me.” And I mean it was like this hug revelation that I realized instead of praying and trying to think like “Lord bless him; put angels around him or whatever just typical.
Julie: I start worshiping myself and I feel like it opened up some other place in him and he connected with it. And he went to bed totally at peace. Hnd he woke up the next morning totally at peace and he was like a different child in his inner being. And so I have started doing that every night and I am worshiping quietly on his bed instead of praying over him in a praying kind of way. But I still pray when I worship I mean I’m asking God for His covering over him but I’m worshiping. And so I really think that’s a key; even with my music I think the reason that people connect with it a lot of times is just that I’m singing my own heart to God; I’m not trying to sing something for them.
Sid: Well, I have to tell you Julie; from the last time that I interviewed you till today you’re under a higher presence of God in you our music and your speaking. But we’ve been talking about this very new CD that we have just developed. It’s a CD and a DVD called “Worship 24-7” that we did in the Supernatural television studio which packs a major presence of God. And we combined the anointing on you with the presence of God that’s in our studio and we invited people to do something different. To come in; lay on their back and just soak. What is your definition of soaking?
Julie: It is a time to rest in God’s presence; it’s not a time to pray, it’s not a time to do anything; its not a time to worship and praise. Even though occasionally we end up in those places as the Spirit of God leads us there but mostly it’s a time for people to be still and know that He is God. And it’s amazing how hard that is to do in this culture because people are so busy but when you are still you can hear God’s whispers and many people you know they go on healing journey’s many times and they go really deep places with God. And I believe that intimacy with God is a huge key to signs and wonders and to you know that’s how we keep our lamps filled like the 5 virgins in the Bible. That’s how we keep our lamps filled is by spending relational intimate time with God and once you get a taste of that you will want to be soaking all the them. (Laughing)
Sid: Well, for me it changes the whole atmosphere in the rooms that I’m in. When I play it in my home the whole atmosphere get’s that same liquid peace. Or I call it “peace packaged.” How would you like to be in that atmosphere?” As a matter of fact I want you to hear from this brand new DVD we just recorded live it’s spontaneous worship with Julie True and her worship team. We had people soaking to it and I want you to hear this….Let’s go to that live CD that we just finished.