SID: Julie, I heard you share about, “gotta get higher”. I have to tell you, I’ve been a believer many, many years, but it impacted, it convicted me, and it is necessary for you. Tell me briefly about it.
JULIE: Yeah. I had an encounter with the Lord. It was during our renewal services in Kansas City, and I was actually out for four hours. This was not a dream. It was an encounter. But I went down and all of a sudden, two angels picked me up by my arms, and I could hear their wings. These had wings. And I could hear their wings going [grrrr]. And both of them, they were saying, “Gotta get higher, gotta get higher, gotta get higher”. And I could see like this open portal, like I could see what I would have thought Jacob might have saw. And but I was hanging there, and I was hanging there for a long time, and they kept saying, “Gotta get higher, gotta get higher”. And in a dream or an encounter you’re still you. I don’t know any more. And in this, I turned around and I said, “What’s the problem? You’re an angel. I’m not that big.” I just didn’t get it, you know. And suddenly, this very large, like 30-foot grabbed me from the back of my collar and pulled me up, so I’m dangling right in front of his face. And he said, “It’s not them, it’s you. You’ve got too many gates open. Your mouth gate, your eye gate, your ear gate, what you say, what you listen to, what you watch. If you want to go up, you gotta close the gates.” And suddenly I heard, “Bam! Bam! Bam!” And I shot straight up into this portal, and that’s where these angels were just having me eat the scroll, eat the scroll, eat the scroll, eat the scroll.
SID: You know, can you see why I got convicted. And you know what? To be convicted, that’s not the purpose, but to repent and change, that is the purpose.
JULIE: And it’s daily.
JULIE: I mean, it is a daily thing.
SID: Now Julie, you didn’t have a particular burden for the Jewish people and the nation Israel. But something happened to you that changed it all. Tell us about it.
JULIE: I had a dream and in the dream, Jesus took me, and he said, “I want you to meet my friends. If you know my friends, you’ll pray for my friends.” And I knew suddenly, as I looked around, I was in Jerusalem, and I was walking with Jesus, and I could see. I could see Yeshua. I could see his heart, his passion, his love for the Jewish people, but I could see at this time that they didn’t care and the brokenness of his heart. And suddenly in the dream, as we were walking, he began to look at certain people, and he would simply nod like that. And suddenly, that nod, it was appearing in my glory eye to eye and flesh to flesh. Suddenly, they saw him and I could see this awakening that they didn’t believe in Yeshua, but suddenly they did. He revealed himself. And they, there was a large group of rabbis. They were praying at the Wall. And he went up to this group and he looked at the rabbis one by one, and suddenly they saw him. Suddenly, they knew this is Yeshua.
[People chanting “Yeshua”]
JULIE: And they went up to their room, in this dream, and I was following them. In this dream, they went up to a high room and they were saying, “This changes everything! This changes everything!” And I knew that the day was coming, the hour was coming when the rabbis of Jerusalem would go up to the mountain of the Lord and shout out, “Yeshua is Messiah! Yeshua is Messiah! Yeshua is Messiah!” And that is the dream and I believe it.
SID: And I believe that now is that time. And in his name every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Messiah and Lord. And if you have not bowed your knee to the King of Kings, the Messiah of Israel, the King of the Jews, the Lord of Lords, now is that time. You make Jesus your Lord. You confess with your mouth, I believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, and because of his wounds, my sins are totally washed away. I am righteous. I am clean and now that I am clean, Lord Jesus, come inside of me. Take over my life. I make you Lord of my life. I want to know you better. I want to love you more. I want my life to count. I don’t want to be like that girl saw her parents in Hell. I want to be in Heaven, but I want to walk in Heaven on Earth. And the only way I can do that is to know you, make you my Lord, read the Bible, and be true to you, and Love God, and love my neighbor as myself, and I can’t even do that without your help. Help Jesus!
Sid: My guest I caught up with him in Richmond, Virginia but he lives in Israel with his family; wife and 5 children under age 10 Stan Goodenough. He was a newspaper reporter in South Africa; now he’s a news correspondent in Israel. Stan you’re in the media; I’m in the media; I have to believe that the biggest battleground for Satan is the media. Is the minds going into thehomes on the television, on the radio, going into the cars but it seems to be so biased, so wrong. Give me some examples of this and why is this going on.
Stan: I think that as you know especially Christians Sid who want to know and have an understanding of the times that we’re living in. If we take our information and base our prayer time even on what we hear just over the secular news media we’re going to be starting off on a false position and often from a biased and skewed position. I believe that you know there are events taking place in this world there’s a battle for the soul of the United States going on. And it’s very evident to me that a visit to this country. And I’m here with my family for one year of traveling around and speaking about what’s happening in Israel. But what we’ve seen here is this incredible battle going on for the soul of America. There is a very, very important battle going on right now for the church. The church is being divided between those that stand with Israel and those that side against her. And what you base yourself on as a Christian when it comes to an issue like the Middle East and Israel, I believe it should not be primarily the secular media because they set the tone and they are overwhelming. They have the dollars, they have the huge networks and the way of coming across that just affects hearts and minds in millions around the world. They are responsible more than any organ or any other mechanism; the media is responsible for the anti-Semitism that is igniting in different parts of the world today and for the negativity against Israel. Christians need to know where they’re getting their information from and if they can find a Christian source to provide their information they should to there. Because at least then they’re hearing from a brother or somebody else who believes in the Lord. This is happening and I’m sure they come and listen to you Sid.
Sid: You know I have a question for you according to most of the poles that I’ve seen for president the democrats and the republican candidates are running neck and neck. It’s going to be just like the last election; you’re not going to know until the last minute. I happen to believe the deciding vote will be whether President George Bush sides with Israel of sides with land for peace. Would you agree?
Stan: I’m not sure that I would prophesy that Sid but I would certainly agree to this that by standing against Israel President George W. Bush can only be doing detriment and doing… it’s detrimental to his position and to his future politically. It must be detrimental; we’ve seen the experience of his father what he experienced when he turned against Israel. And I fully believe, I do not necessarily believe that if he doesn’t do a 180 degree turn right now on land for peace that he would lose the coming elections. But I think that his ability to affect and to be used by God in powerfully for the United States going forward will be directly affected by whether he makes that turn. And it will have to be a 180 degree turn because he has personally, in his words, personally committed himself to dividing up the land of Israel.
Sid: Okay, I have to ask you this “Do you believe his father lost the presidential election because of his stand on Israel?
Stan: I would say “Yes.” I would say that was very….
Sid: Okay, I’m going to rest my case on that Stan.
Stan: Hmm, hm.
Sid: Let’s go back to what’s going on with Islam worldwide; they are growing so rapidly I don’t know if you know this or not but they’re going to United States Universities. Going to the President and say “We would like to establish a (it sounds good) a school of Islamic Studies, we will build the building, we will get you the faculty and we will pay their salaries; would you like this asset?” And of course they say? “Yes.” I mean, could the Islamic strategy be the same in the United States of America as it is in Great Britain?
Stan: I think their strategy is the same all over the place. They go in normally showing a humanitarian phase, a phase of academics or of social services. And that’s how they establish their network; they do the networking like that. And people sign up and people support them. And in this way in terms of the United States and making this offer to the officials in the United States the Islamic will in a way puts the US in its debt because they are indebted to the Islamic movement behind this college or behind this education Institution because it’s all been given to the United States free of charge. And suddenly somebody has actually been bought and the Islamic world is very well known for calling in its debts. And I think that Saudi Arabia has quite a strong influence in the White House because of debts that it has. But it believes that Americans have to it because in terms of all kinds of things. It’s paid for scholarships for upcoming Congressman and it’s done all kinds of things, and it’s all good on the face of it. But it’s a very devious and dark motive behind it and that is to take the United States for Allah and that’s what they’re after and they believe they’re going to do it Sid.
Sid: Well I believe that unless we take God’s word seriously and unless we fast and pray for. Now by the way where it says in scripture “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.” We don’t have to understand it; we’re just commanded to do this and that’s the only place in the world that we’re told specifically to pray for the peace of. But what do you think that really mean, what are we praying for when we’re praying for the peace of Jerusalem Stan?”
Stan: The scripture goes “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.” And then it stops and it opens in various comments, or in quotation marks and it says “They shall prosper that love thee.” We should pray for Jerusalem that those who love her will prosper because they’re more and more love her and support her.” That’s how the Psalms describes it. And I fully believe that when we pray for the peace of Jerusalem we are not praying for the success of land for peace process, we’re not praying for the success of the Madrid or the Oslo agreements.We are praying for the peace that only God can bring; only the Messiah can bring. To come and come quickly to that land; we know that it’s going to happen. And I believe that’s what we should be praying for. Jesus gave us the same words, when He said pray “Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” But the coming of His kingdom and the setting up of His kingdom in Jerusalem peace will come.
Sid: And I heard your teaching recently on Isaiah Chapter 62 verse 67 “On your walls Jerusalem I have appointed watchmen all day and all night; the will never keep silent; you who remind the Lord give Him no rest, give Him no rest until He establishes and makes Jerusalem a praise on the earth,” comment.
Stan: We all watchmen on the wall if we are tuned into what’s happening Jesus gave us that command, we are watch and pray. Watch first so that we can pray and know what we’re praying into. We are watchman on the wall, we see the enemy coming, we know what God’s plan is for Israel if you know the word, you know what His plan is for Jerusalem. What His plan is for the Jews, what His plan is for us. We’ve been grated into the olive tree. We know His plan and we see the enemy coming, we see him rising up like a cloud like a dark cloud covering the land. And as he comes and he descends and he prepares to destroy Jerusalem, to destroy Israel is what the enemies of Israel is really trying to do. We see it coming and we can pray “Lord, prevent this and remember your word.” And we can remind God of all of the promises He made. “That you’d bring them back and you’d settle them in the land and you’d root them there and you’d plant them there and you’d watch over them to do them good. Those are your words God, those are Your promises, remember them, remember them, remember them.” That’s what we do as watchman.
Sid: You know Stan, you made the comment that many Israeli’s feel that in 50 years there will be no Israel. There’s such a sense of hopelessness there, such pressure. What will this hopelessness and this pressure cause to happen in Israel in your opinion?
Stan: Right now it seems to me that they looked everywhere; they’ve looked first of all around them at Egypt and they’ve tried to lean on Egypt and to trust in Egypt and they still tend to do that because it’s fighting to watch because Egypt is so dedicated to peace, still dedicated to peace partner or not to Israel’s destruction. And then they’re looking to the west and specifically to the White House and they’re looking to America to stand with them and support them. And when America lets them down as America has done, not always but has done; then they flounder around they don’t know who to turn to. Well, God’s calling on them to turn to Him, he doesn’t want them to turn first of all to United States, He wants them to turn first of all to Him. And He’s waiting like the father of the prodigal son He just waiting to see that turn, that change and He’s going to come and embrace there. I really believe that.
Sid: Stan I can’t think of a better time to be sharing the love of God, the love of the Messiah without limitation on secular media than right now. I can’t think of a better time. See I think that Germany is going to turn horrifically anti-Semitic; it’s already but turning even worse anti-Semitic. I think all of Europe is going to do this. Obviously all of the Middle East is going to do this. And even here in the west with the Islamic stronghold that’s being the beachhead that’s coming here in the west; they’ll be no place. We must get the message out to Jewish people the doors are open for me in a supernatural fashion.
Sid: God has a strategy, the strategy is we show a miracle we demonstrate a miracle and that demands the attention of the audience. I have to tell you I’m really getting upset over the amount of time devoted on Christian radio and Christian television for vitamins and alternative medicine. It seems as if the emphasis is there as opposed to the supernatural of God. So you can understand why that upsets me; however I recently got a hold of two books by a Doctor, Dr. Ray Strand. One book is called “What Your Doctor Doesn’t Know About Nutritional Medicine May be Killing You.” The other book is called “Death by Prescription.” This is the most balanced approach, I mean there is a great deal of confusion about vitamins, about herbs, about eternal medicine, about diets. And you’re going to be outraged when you hear some of these things because you know though God will protect you when you take poison there are many people that don’t have their faith at that point. And there’s a lot of medicine out there that’s literally killing you. And so I have on the telephone Dr. Ray Strand. Ray you were telling me before we went on the air the number 3 cause for death in America. Would you tell me that again?
Ray: Well, the number 3 cause of death in this country is medication. And people are not aware of it. In fact Sid, if you take properly prescribed properly administered medication it is causing over 100,000 deaths each and every year and that would make it the fourth leading cause. If you add the improperly prescribed medication or taken medication it adds another 80,000 deaths each and every year. So it becomes the 3rd leading cause of death in this country.
Sid: And you understand this better than me but I was raised as a child when I would go to the doctor anything that they would say that was truth, that’s I would do. I wouldn’t contest it; I wouldn’t go for another opinion; whatever my doctor told me. But then as I got older I recognized that there was a lot of guess work going on. And you make a statement in your book that I want to quote “That we cannot rely on doctors we must do our homework.” Give me an example as to why this is true.
Ray: Well, the main thing is the fact that when the FDA releases a drug to the market to be used by the people that are in your listening audience they know less than half of the serious adverse direct reactions. The way that they find out the others is what I call “The great clinical trial” which is you the patient. So even if the doctor is knowledgeable on everything; which most of us only know the major drug reactions. What happens is the way we find out all the others is when people start using this in large quantities, then we find out the other adverse drug reactions. And so every drug has an adherent risk and so you need to become familiar with what they do know and at least conscious of the fact that jeepers you could react to any medication the doctor prescribes. It’s not that he’s doing things wrong it’s just the nature of medicine itself.
Sid: Now you talk in your book in the introduction of the book “Death By Prescription.” You talk about a young child named “Heidi.” Tell me about Heidi.
Ray: Well, Heidi was a daughter of a neurologist that I practiced with in Rapid City here, and his daughter came in with pneumonia. And Heidi actually had a severe atypical pneumonia and we gave her a drug called Erythromycin; this was the proper one. But we also gave her a little Tylenol to keep her fever down. Well, about 3 days into treating her pneumonia her liver enzymes started to rise dramatically. And of course I was a younger doctor then and Dr. Savo is a gentleman’s name we realized that things were wrong and so we cut off the medication realizing this could be a problem. And we had to air ambulance her up to the University of Minnesota Children’s Hospital. While I was there that they said that she had an allergic reaction to the Tylenol and it was causing liver damage. And this was a real shock for me as a young doctor and dealing with my first real serious adverse drug reaction.
Sid: Tell me about in the first chapter you talk about Cynthia.
Ray: Well, this is a gal who actually it was not a patient of mine I knew her from other sources. But she actually had been prescribed some actual hormone replacement therapy because she’s going through menopause and experiencing hot flashes. And actually wasn’t too bad, but the doctor had actually promoted it to her as a situation where she actually felt that it was going to prevent heart attacks and strokes and help maintain her bone density. And about 7 months after being on this hormone replacement she suffered a heart attack. And everything else checked out fine, but in the end the cardiologist kind of told her that he thought she suffered the heart attack at age 49 because of the hormone replacement therapy. And that’s what the literature’s now showing us. This happened several years ago but now we’ve had 2 major studies come out last summer showing that actually hormone replacement therapy increases the risk of heart attack and stroke in our woman. And it does not decrease it and they’re basically recommending that we don’t use hormone replacement therapy for long term prevention of chronic diseases. Now if you need it to get through the menopause sometimes we have to use it. Of course, I like natural hormones but that was Cynthia’s story.
Sid: In your book “Death By Prescription,” there’s another sacred cow, the FDA and you explain who few American’s understand what the FDA does and why it’s so important; and why there maybe some financial ulterior motives. I wonder if you would explain that.
Ray: Well the FDA obviously is the Food and Drug Administration and they’re there to protect us and make sure that what we eat and what we take in medication is safe or as safe as possible. But what happened is that the FDA was very very strong in protecting us and in fact the statistic that hit me as a doctor was the fact that before 1990 of all the drugs release worldwide to the public only 4% of those drugs were first released in the United States. Well, this bothered a lot of people we had the AIDs epidemic, we had cancer patients who wanted a lot of the drugs that were in other counties but not ours. So there’s a lot of pressure on Congress to get our drugs approved quicker and faster and more frequently. So they past the User Fee Act in 1992 which made the pharmaceutical companies pay a fee to the FDA to get their; you know help get their drugs approved. Well, that user fee then created what I call the deadly partnership. In other words, the group that they’re supposed to be protecting and actually monitoring is actually now supplies over 50% of the budget for the FDA. So over half of the budget of the FDA comes from the pharmaceutical industry through these user fees. So if I want to get a drug approved by the FDA and I’m a pharmaceutical company I have to pay; originally it was a quarter million dollars, $250,000 was paid to the FDA to get your drug approved. Since that time now over 60% of all of the drugs released now worldwide are first released in the United States. And the number of drugs being approved has accelerated; it used to take an average of 24 months to get a drug approved by the FDA that dropped down to 12 months and they have a rapid, what they call a fast track method of getting drugs approved. And you can get drugs approved within 6 months. And so it’s totally changed how the FDA looks at things. It used to be the FDA used to say “Should this drug be approved for use by the public?” Now, the attitude seems to be “How can we get this drug approved to be used by the public?” And so it’s a real change in the FDA and the way that they approve our drugs and they protect us and our safety.
Sid: But you in your book “Death By Prescription” that’s a pretty shocking title. But I mean the average doctor if they see your cholesterol numbers are wrong will give you medication. And the average doctor if they see your blood pressures a little high will give you medication. You’re pretty negative on this medication.
Ray: Well you know Sid I want to make a statement. I really believe medication is very, very important; it has saved a lot of lives, it has helped a lot of people But I think that we need to adopt an attitude to use medication as a last resort not a first choice. And what you’ll find is all almost the top 7 or 8 killers of us, you know the leading causes of death in the US and the western world is the result of a lot of our lifestyles. In other words, you take diabetes, heart disease, cancer, cholesterol, high blood pressure, osteoporosis; all of these really major diseases are strongly related to patient’s lifestyles. So if people would just improve their lifestyles…
Sid: Now you’re saying that but I have to tell you I look at all the different diets that are all contradictory, one contradicts the other. I look at all the different claims on the various vitamins, I look at all the various claims on the various medication and I have to tell you doctor it’s confusing out there.
Ray: Well and you’re right Sid and the more you learn the more confused you get and I guess that’s where I feel I would like my role to be is to try to look at the medical literature and give a practical common sense solution that anybody can do whether they’re traveling, eating at home or whatever. And this is where the truth is because there’s too much hype and none of the diets work. And none of them are really all that healthy and people gain the weight back. What I try to promote are healthy lifestyles and just happen to have a side-effect of fat loss, but at the same time you decrease your blood pressure, you decrease cholesterol; you decrease your risk of heart disease and diabetes. And this is where people need to be going because that’s the true preventive medicine.
Sid: I’ll tell you what we’re out of time; we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be so excited about the Messiah, not this 21st Century American version of Christianity. I’m talking about Bible belief; I’m talking about intimacy with God. I’m talking about greater intimacy with God then what people have with their churches. As a matter of fact that’s about what their intimacy with God is; is their intimacy with their church. But there’s something so much better; don’t limit God. You can have the same intimacy with God that everyone that you read about in the Bible has. It’s available right now, it’s being poured out right now; do not settle for mediocrity; do not settle for tradition. There is reality and my heart’s desire is for you to have the same encounter with God that I have had. To have the same encounter with God that Akef Tayem had. Akef is a Palestinian Arab born Palestinian in Haifa, Israel. But when Israel became a nation in 1948 his family who is a wealthy family, prosperous family there moved to the Island of Cypress. He and all of his brothers got scholarships to U.S. Universities. He went to University; a Christian woman started witnessing to him. Talked about miracles, as a Muslim he never thought this was possible. He wanted to prove that this guy was a fake, a charlatan. So he went to a tent evangelist meeting and he saw a miracle he couldn’t deny. Then he accepted the Lord; disowned by his family, and he was going through hard times because of… it was very tough he was struggling with a lot of things. He believed in Jesus; he could not deny it but he was just plain struggling and he found himself at a little country church. What happened Akef?
Akef: Well, this is really a little embarrassing to me and I didn’t share this with hardly anyone but my close family because it made absolutely no sense for me to do what I did. I’m usually… I mean I have my senses together, I’m logical but I did end up in a small church in the woods in Birmingham, Alabama. I wanted to be by myself; I wanted to understand what happened to me. I accepted Jesus because of a miracle I’d seen my family disowned me. They wanted nothing to do with me. After a few attempts my brother said “I just give up, and he’s very nice; he really tried but I just could not go back on that. So the minister told me I’m welcome to stay there. There was like I said “It’s in the middle of the woods and I started taking straws because I had nothing else to do into the woods and I had the Bible and the Koran; I was trying to see what’s going on. I quit my job of course; and I was without any money, without any resources whatsoever but somehow that did not matter to me. The other things, my relationship with God. What happened is I had absolutely no desire for food, I mean I did not go on a fast. I mean I did not plan a fast; I just was not hungry for some reason. And I didn’t eat for quite some time; and I remember a gentleman that I found out later his name would leave me two gallons. Because there was no running water there. They had a well, but the well didn’t… the water in the well was not really drinkable. And so someone would leave me 2 gallons of water by the door of the church. They would leave it on Wednesday night and Sunday; when they had meetings. And after quite some time I don’t know exactly how many days; I figured later it to be 38, 40, 42 I…
Sid: Weren’t they a little worried about here this guy is camping out on their grounds.
Akef: Well, what happened is after maybe 2 weeks; 2 ½ weeks, or so, I started being too weak to come up to the church. The Pastor told me that there is a river and they gave me directions in the forest where there’s running spring water in it. Which I never found but they told me it is there. So I guess they assumed I did have water and I asked them to just leave me alone and they respected that.
Sid: So what happened next?
Sid: I mean you’re fasting; I mean you must have been pretty weak. You weren’t eating anything for about how long?
Akef: Well, I went I figured it to be like I said between 37 to 38 to 40, 42 days. I was so weak at the end that I was. Matter of fact I found an interesting thing, I wish I could draw that but it was a white rock in the middle of the… it was a rocky area and this rock looked like a chair or a day bed and that’s where I ended up most of the time. I became so weak I could hardly walk.
Sid: You must have been in really turmoil not to be able to eat. You weren’t fasting you just had no desire for food.
Akef: No. I had no desire for food and I use to read; when I would read the Bible I would read it loud. It was so quiet there that I wanted to hear my voice so I would read it loud. And then after some time when I opened my mouth to speak it it would tear my skin.
Sid: Because you were so dehydrated.
Akef: So dehydrated I would feel the blood start coming down so. I stopped doing that. And then my hands between my fingers, if I opened by fingers the skin would crack like parchment. So and when I started seeing this I realized there’s something wrong. I said “This is ridiculous; now I got to get out of here; I have to get out of here or I won’t make it.” Then I was too weak too weak to walk. And I remember it was… I remember praying to God because I was losing my sight. Now I’m not going blind but things would get dark for a little bit and then I’d see the sun and pray. It looked like I was trying to pass out or something so. But I wanted water; I wanted water so bad and I remember asking God and praying. I said “Lord, water I need water.” And I looked and my only hope of course was rain. And I looked up in the sky and there’s not a cloud in the sky; there was just nothing there. Next thing I know is that I’m about 8 – 10 feet in the air. And I’m looking down and I see this individual who is laying on a rock.
Sid: Wait a second; you’re telling me that you’re spirit left your body?
Akef: Now I know then I didn’t.
Sid: So okay you were about 8 or 10 feet in the air… I’m just trying to catch this and what did you see?
Akef: I looked down and I see this young man laying a rock. There’s a Bible next to him; I see that the Bible is open. There’s a book next to him and I don’t recognize him. I don’t know that it was me; I don’t self in so long.I remember that he was so weak
Akef: He was so weak, he was so skinny and there was blood; there was blood around his lips; brown. Blood around his hands and I remember feeling sorry, and asking “What is this?” I didn’t know what was going on.
Sid: Did you realize that it was yourself that you were looking at?
Akef: The next thing I know is I’m going up into towards the sky. And I remember it was dark. And I’m going up and as I’m going up there was one issue that puzzled me more than anything and I still don’t understand the relevance or what. But I remember trying to touch my hand and my hand, my fingers would go through me. And I couldn’t understand that, I kept going on and I’m saying “Why am I so light, why am I so light?” There was no substance, and it fascinated me later on of all the things I could be worried about you know of what I left behind, my family this was what was really… but anyway I kept on going through this space dark space. And then I recall coming through a lit area. There was bright light but I didn’t stop for some reason; I went through it. And then there was darkness again. Then there was light, darkness, and then the third light and I didn’t know at the time anything. About pulse, you know. But I know that the third light… lit area I stopped.
Sid: So that’s what Paul was calling the third heaven I believe.
Akef: Yes, but…
Sid: But you didn’t know it from borscht. Okay go ahead.
Akef: No, that’s right and then I stopped; the third lit area. And there was nothing there there was just myself and I was standing on what seemed to be like wool. It had no substance; and I realized that I was standing on it because of course I had no substance either. Otherwise I would fall through it or something to that effect. And then I’d seen a form of someone; a figure of someone began to take shape. Maybe like 10 feet away from me or so. And it’s amazing but somehow without anyone telling me I felt it was Jesus. And this form began to approach me and He came about arm length from me. I remember Him saying “Touch Me.” Now what’s important is I didn’t see the color of His eyes, I don’t know the color of His skin, it was like a silhouette. And He said “Touch Me.” And I reach my right hand towards His side; it was His left side. And I remember my fingers went inside Him like a ¼ of an inch or so because He was hollow too. And the minute my hand touch Him was back on the rock again and it was pouring rain.
Sid: (Laughing) You had been praying for rain.
Akef: It was pouring rain.
Sid: Akef, we’re out of time; pick up right here. Mishpochah you…it’s almost unbelievable what happened to him next.
Sid: I’m talking to someone right now; you were baptized in the Holy Spirit 20 years ago. You spoke in unknown tongues; you had your first love. You read the Bible every day; if there were 8 services going on in a day you would run to those 8 services. You had an insatiable appetite for the things of God, but as time went on you prayed for a few people and they didn’t get healed; you stopped praying in tongues. You became a spectator; you might have even been teaching Sunday School but things are booor-ing [emphasis intended]! And you’re just wondering “Is there something more?” I have on the telephone Tim Enloe I’m interviewing him on his latest book and it’s brand new it’s almost off the press. It’s called “Want More.” So what would you say to that person Tim?
Tim: Well, first of all I believe that we do a great disservice to the Holy Spirit almost an insult in not depending on Him. You know I want to challenge those that have… or are in that situation an area that you just mentioned their just living in status quo Christianity. And their saying “Life if just happening and when something really bad happens I’ll really commit it to prayer but otherwise I’ll just accept the status quo as being God’s will.”
Sid: And you know what I think that position is backslidden and don’t even know it.
Tim: Oh certainly they’ve lost their first love and they need to remember that the height and repent and come back and do the things that you did as first. Getting back in repentance and heart searching and calling on the Lord, no doubt. But in those cases you see one of the things that we need to recognize about the Holy Spirit is that perhaps we make the mistake many times of recognizing or reconciling that our present reality is God’s intended best for us. Well why in the world would we ever want to make such a foolish mistake? We know that He is exceedingly able to do far above anything that we could ever ask or imagine according to the power that is at work within us, the power of the Holy Spirit. And I want to encourage those that have received the Baptism in the Spirit and had kind of gotten complacent in their hearts and haven’t had an avenue of ministry. The easiest way to get those jumper cables from heaven on your earlobes again. The easiest way for God to hit you with His Holy Spirit defibrillator and give you a fresh charge is for you to get in a place that demands the anointing of the Holy Spirit flows through your life. Get in over your head and cry out help to God; get around someone that’s sick and instead of trying to give them 20 minutes of counseling and 1 minute of prayer. Give them a half hour of prayer only and cry out to God. Pray in the language of the Spirit; tell God your desperation and get in over your head. When we begin to recognize that it’s not by our might or our wisdom or our power but it’s by His Spirit and truly convictedly believe that in our hearts. It begins to magnifies the Spirit of God to come down upon the circumstances; God never flows through the wisdom of men He flows in a different trend of wisdom the mysterious wisdom Paul talked about in Corinthians chapter 2 the wisdom of the Spirit of God, His empowering, His glory, His work. And when we get into a circumstance over our head I believe the siphon down the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.
Sid: Tim, what about the person that their whole life they have heard that tongues is not for today. What would you say to them?
Tim: Well I would challenge them to read their Bible; it’s very easy to accept teaching from very good, and I might add godly people. But people that they themselves have been indoctrinated that tongues is not for today. But thankfully that’s an ever shrinking corner of Christianity even among scholars. Certainly in the evangelical world it’s a very shrinking perspective. But to understand that the Bible does not teach that the Bible tells us that one of the great scriptures that the sensationalists used beginning with B.B. Warfield back with his counterfeit miracles book at the turn of the past century. He said that “It’s clear that tongues shall cease 1st Corinthians 14 “When that which is perfection has come. And he said “Well, certainly I would image that perfection to be the Bible being concluded; the Bible being written; the end being put on the end of John’s revelation of Jesus. But we understand from scripture that Paul is not talking about that at all when you read that. He’s looking forward to an eschatological conclusion when we’re with Jesus forever in heaven, tongues will be stilled, prophesy will cease.” There will be no need when we’re in heaven with Messiah. There’s no even need for a temple there; no even need for a sun because the Lord is there He is the light. The Lamb is the light.
Sid: Tim you used the words sensationalists in other words people that believe that the gifts have stopped. In your book you tell us a story of a couple that accidentally came to one of your meetings that thought that way. What happened to them?
Tim: Well this was again a couple trained and raised from knee high to a grasshopper trained and raised in a sensationalists church. Again a good godly pastor absolutely no doubt about that; people being born again. But when it came to this openness of the things of the Spirit they said “Basically they’ve said “I haven’t experienced it yet so it must not be true; which is a terrible error; a fatal error to me.” They came to the service not realizing that they were having a kooky guest like myself into the pulpit that day and a that that moment they wanted to get up and leave but they were sitting too close to the front. And by the end of the service they both found themselves walking to the front and praying to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit evidence by speaking in those unlearned languages that the Bible promised. And they both found themselves very easily experiencing the presence and the glory of God like they both testified they had never experienced before, and then speaking this new language. And of course I always encourage people after they begin to speak in that language to trust God to guide their known language in the same miraculous way. That afternoon as they pulled out of church Brother Sid, they made a right out of church and then a left on the main road. And about ½ mile down there was a car with a hazard lights blinking on along side of the road. It was a young single mom full of a car load of kids there. And she was broken down and they stopped and the wife looked at the husband and the husband looked at the wife and said “Already?” And he called the tow-truck and they sat in their car there and they decided to drive them home. And he was going to wait with the car until the tow-truck to get there because the kids needed to go home; total strangers. And as the wife newly baptized in the Spirit the wife was driving this young single mom and these kids to their house before they even pulled into the driveway she had already led them to the Lord. They were praying with her; they couldn’t believe this divine opportunity from God. And if that weren’t the clincher that night this lady laid hands on a young boy and born cross eyed and he had had 7 unsuccessful operations to cure this cross eyed condition. Laid her hands upon him not only… again she didn’t believe in miracles she was a little convinced about the baptism of the Spirit thing because she had experienced it. But now she laid hands on this young boy born cross-eyed 7 unsuccessful operations the moment her hands touched him his eyes straightened out. And he screamed out “Mom, I don’t see funny anymore.” And what a testimony service we had that night, not only from this lady who was laying aside sensationalism but she had picked up the now anointing that had already resulted in several people being born again in her life as she shared Christ with them, and now miracles taking place.
Sid: Now this is not unusual Mishpochah every time that Tim shares in these areas either people that were baptized in the Holy Spirit get it activated. Or those that haven’t get baptized in the Holy Spirit they literally get a refreshment, they get their first love back. Tell me another quick story of someone that heard your teaching, sat under the anointing and what they did.
Tim: One of my very favorites is one of a minister, a credentialed minister, with a sensationalist denomination and he accidentally got into our services as well. And I always tell people “Listen I’m not going to present an argument. I don’t believe the Holy Spirit blesses arguments the Holy Spirit blesses when you talk about Jesus.” So I just presented Jesus as the baptizer in the Holy Spirit that perhaps there are some that have never encountered Him. They’ve encountered Him as the Savior, they’ve encountered Him as the deliverer, and certainly the Messiah and all that contains and they’re looking forward to Him as the coming King but they have not experienced in the way that John prophesied. The forerunner said that “He would baptize you in the Holy Spirit and fire” and they had not experienced that yet. This gentleman came forward and he was still very unconvinced but he said “It’s true Jesus I don’t think I’ve experienced You as the baptizer so I know I’m safe asking Jesus for something. He wasn’t sure about asking the Holy Spirit for something, he said “I know I’m safe asking Jesus.” And he went forward and as he began to pray all of a sudden the Holy Spirit came upon him and all of a sudden he found this beautiful interior river beginning to break-loose out of his inner most being. And he found himself suddenly speaking in a language in which he’d never understood before. And he came to me after-wards and he said “You have ruined me.” And I said “I didn’t do it I don’t know what you are talking about. (Laughing) He said “How in the world am I going to explain this to my denominational officials? I came here totally convinced against this,” but he said that “As I began to ask Jesus to show Himself to me as the baptizer in the Holy Spirit He said my guard is down because I love Jesus with all my heart.” He said “Today for the first time in my life I know that this is real and that it’s a gift that comes from Jesus He’s the baptizer.”
Sid: You know in your book you state that you feel that this next move of God’s Spirit is going to hit non-charismatic denominational churches. I actually have more faith for them than the charismatic churches that have got it and have buried it in the ground.
Tim: Well, I really believe that too, the exception of that is the young generation that God is raising up in the Pentecostal and the Charismatic Churches that are dissatisfied with form without power. That is not an acceptable model for church living, is it? And the young generation is raising up saying “Hey, wait a minute we believe all this stuff why don’t we see it?” And there is a new rekindled passion that perhaps their parents and grandparents had laid aside many years ago. But I truly…I’m with you if you gave me someone that was born and raised in a Pentecostal Church and has heard about the baptism of the Spirit all their life as Case A and someone that was just born again and delivered from demons and drug addictions as Case B, and you said pick one for the baptism of the Holy Spirit I’d run right to the….
Sid: Now I have my good friend Jonathan Bernis on the phone and most of you are familiar with his TV show” Jewish Voice with Jonathan Bernis.” Jonathan you came out with a concept that frankly I haven’t seen anyone do before. And that is I’ve seen people have scriptures to mediate on God’s word and list them and tell us to mediate rightfully so. But you came out with it on a CD as well as in a book with a special way so that anyone can read Biblical Hebrew instantly. Why the Hebrew, most people don’t understand Hebrew?
Jonathan: Well, Sid I believe that Hebrew has a unique power to it, and I believe it’s connected to Roman’s 11:25. Which I think it’s often misinterpreted; it says “A blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.” And I don’t believe it’s talking about a full number but a fullness coming back to the church; a restoration as Acts talks about; a restoration of all things. Part of this divine restoration and I believe Sid it’s a last days restoration is the revival of the Jewish roots of our faith. And that includes the language of Hebrew which I believe is dynamic and powerful which I believe it began with restoration that began with the 1800’s with Hebrew coming back to a people that had been wandering for almost 2000 years. The Jewish people who are now back in the land and the national language in Israel is the language of Hebrew. I believe that this is a modern day miracle Sid. And I believe that Christians can tap into this amazing restoration.
Sid: Well as far as I’m concerned not only is the language supernatural it was prophesied they’d be speaking it again in the streets of Judah. But it is… there’s something about sound. For instance, I interview Psalmists and some of them literally they have portals to heaven for peace, or for healing, or for various things. There’s something about Hebrew that opens up the heavens. What do you feel about that?
Jonathan: Well I believe that God responds to any language but I believe that there’s a unique anointing on Hebrew and some have suggested Sid, I can’t tell you dogmatically that this is the case, but that when the Lord spoke the world into existence and said “Let there be light” He was speaking this forth in Hebrew as a creative force.” So I believe that Hebrew does have a supernatural dimension to it. There’s frequencies that resonate in the Hebrew how detailed I don’t get into. But I do believe that there is a very unique power to Hebrew; it’s called the language of the prophets the language of the tongue of the prophets. And I believe that it’s part of an end-time restoration.
Sid: Now in Jeremiah 31:23 Jonathan read that verse.
Jonathan: “Thus says the Lord of Hosts the God of Israel, they shall again use this speech in the land of Judah and in its cities when I bring back their captivity.”
Sid: Well, how much more specific can you get? I can just tell you the way it affects me. I love to hear the language of Hebrew. And tell me about how this prophesy of God’s word that once again the words of this supernatural language will be restored in Israel. How did it come about?
Jonathan: Modern restoration of Hebrew goes back to the latter part of the 19 century. Actually the middle part; the 1860’s and 70’s thought a man that God called to move back to Israel before it was restored as the nation of Israel. A man called Eleazar Ben Yehudah and he was responsible for the restoration of the Hebrew language. He spent the majority of his life developing ancient Hebrew into a modern spoken language that could be used by a people because he was confident that one day the Jewish people would be restored back to the land. And it came to past Sid in 1948; Israel supernaturally in a day was restored back to the Jewish people; the birth of the modern birth of the state of Israel. And then 1967 with Jerusalem coming back into Jewish hands; I think this was the singular greatest event in the last century to signal the near return of Jesus to this world.
Sid: And you know what’s so amazing about our God is here He said that the Jewish people would be scattered to the four corners of the earth. He prophesied they’d be maintained as a distinct people. He prophesied a land would be born in a day, and He prophesied from the four corners of the earth we would return but when we returned we returned we spoke the language of whatever country we were scattered to. So if Eleazar Ben Yehudah had not restored modern Hebrew how could be communicate with one another?
Jonathan: Yeah it was a miracle. Sid there was 3 restorations just to continue on this that are absolutely supernatural. One is the restoration of the Jewish people scattered to the nations of the world back to their land after almost 2000 years. There was only a remnant of Jewish people living in Israel after the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD. We were scattered to the remote parts of the earth. But since 1948 God has gathered us back as a people and there’s more Jewish people living in Israel today. That little sliver of land the size of New Jersey than any other place in the world including America. Secondly He’s restoring our faith. Jewish people are coming to faith in the God of Israel through the Messiah. Eyes are being opened; there’s more Jewish people that believe in Jesus today than any time since the first century, then third restoration of the modern language. They’re all tied together; their all supernatural and we’re experiencing this before our very eyes Bible prophesy being fulfilled.
Sid: Now tell me about this beautiful book and CD that’s included titled “Confessing the Hebrew Scriptures.”
Jonathan: Okay Sid I have to give credit where credit is due and you played a role in this believe it or not. A number of years ago you confessed healing scriptures and put them to music. And I listened to those tapes and I never knew if they ever came out in CD’s it was a while ago. They were on cassette tapes and I sent those to friends and it was soothing for the soul; faith came alive for healing and health through the confession of God’s Word. I’m a big believer in confessing the word of God; faith is built as we confess the word of God. But then I coupled that with a method that I had learned growing up in synagogue and that is the idea of transliteration. Most Jewish people can’t read the Hebrew and so our prayer books transliterate the Hebrew into English phonetic English to sound out the Hebrew so then we can follow along using the phonetics. Now I learned to read Hebrew the transliteration was kind of a cheat sheet that we could use to speak out the prayers in synagogue. What I’ve done is I’ve taken that method that transliteration…
Sid: Now that was done because so many Jews relocated to the four corners of the earth as God prophesied and they did not know how to speak Hebrew after several generations. So it had to be started a system like this and it’s actually a supernatural way for any one that never went to Bible School of any sort, or a language school of any sort to be speaking the Biblical language.
Jonathan: That’s right Sid in 5 minutes you can sit down put the CD on and you can be speaking in Hebrew without any Hebrew background or training or education whatsoever. You can actually speak these scriptures out following along in the Hebrew and using the transliteration. And you can be speaking forth confessing the Hebrew scriptures related to the Name of God Jehovah Shalom; or Adonai Shalom the Lord our peace; the Lord our completion.
Sid: Now you have scriptures about the word shalom peace but most people think of that’s what it means peace. But it means so much more explain.
Jonathan: Well, shalom is one of the greatest words in the Hebrew language; it means much more than just peace. Although it does bring with it a supernatural peace. But it also means wellbeing; it means wholeness. And the greatest translation I think of shalom is completion; to bring to completion. When we’re exhorted in Psalm 122:6 “To pray for the peace, the shalom, of Jerusalem.” In fact God is asking us to pray for His plan and purpose to be brought to completion, fulness.
Sid: So that’s why you know many people say now “Why did God pick only one city in the whole world that we’re admonished to pray for?” And that’s Psalm 122:6 “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.” Then He makes a promise connected with it. “They shall prosper” and the word prosper in the Hebrew (talk about peace) means heart peace. You shall have heart peace; because you’re praying for the completion of everything that God has prophesied so Jesus can come back and rule this earth. We certainly need something better than Democrats or Republicans. (Laughing)
Jonathan: (Laughing) We sure do Sid; and something really exciting is that first pray for the shalom of peace of Jerusalem they shall prosper that love thee. Which means there’s a promise of property connected to that is also the word shalom. Pray for the shalom of Jerusalem of Israel and God will shalom you.” He’ll prosper you back; He’ll give you peace, He’ll give you wholeness. He’ll complete the work He began in you. It’s just amazing as you sow that prayer into Israel He pours it back into us. That word is shalom.
Sid: Now this brand new but we’ve already field tested this and people are listening to this in the Hebrew because the CD has beautiful relaxing music and then you hear the promise in Hebrew; then you hear the promise in English. And you can also because it’s transliterated and the most beautiful pictures in this book. And it’s really a book that you’d be proud to put on a coffee table; what a conversation piece you’re going to have in your home. So as people do this at night they get totally relaxed and I believe as you’ve just pointed out the word shalom is completeness and all the promises of God… it’s called “The Lord Is Peace.
Sid: Well my guest is red hot the Messiah he’s the founder of Promise Keepers; Coach Bill McCartney. I’m speaking to him at this home in Denver, Colorado. Those that are football fans know what he has done in the football world. Those that are Jesus fans knows fans know what he’s done in the Kingdom of Heaven. He literally was used by God as a catalyst to draw 1.4 Million men together to worship God. This event Coach you were telling me yesterday was the first one that included Messianic Jews, explain.
Coach: Well we were in the Mall in Washington DC.
Sid: Excuse me there must have been Messianic Jews as individuals but not in large numbers, but go ahead.
Coach: In other words, we didn’t acknowledge them; we didn’t honor them; we didn’t give them their rightful place at the front where they belong. So what happened in the Mall in Washington DC in 1997 when we had 1.4 Million men, was that we blew the shofar, and as you know that’s a call to God. As you know that’s a call to God and as we called out to God it was an extraordinary time. And I need to take you to what God did with me most recently to help you to see how all of this kind of came together for me. I went into the waiting room. The waiting room Isaiah 31 says “Those that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength.” I felt led by the Lord to step back out of Promise Keepers. I felt like what had happened in Promise Keepers God had really blessed it and would continue to bless it. But that the primary reason that He called me to be a part of birthing the ministry was still unfulfilled. So I had a sense that I just needed to retreat. So what I did was on March 12, 2003 I stepped back and I went into the waiting room. And for me the waiting room was every day and getting up and spending at least a couple of hours with the Lord unhurried time where I could just ask God all the necessary questions. And I felt like God said to me “If you’ll step back and connect the spiritual dots in your life you’ll discover there’s a divine order to them.” And so I started to go back over everything that had happened prior to Promise Keepers; through Promise Keepers; what was God doing as I’ve heard you say, “You’ll find that everything is a stepping stone to what God wants to do next.” It was with that in mind that I did this, and I got to tell you that I was in that waiting room 9 months. Now ladies know what happens in 9 months you give birth. Sure enough I didn’t realize it at that time but on December the 12th I flew to San Diego at the urging of some brothers at the prompting of some of the Messianic Community. I flew to San Diego because over the phone I had been saying things to a friend of mine and he was jumping out of his socks trying to get me to say these things out loud. So I basically connected the dots and I said “Based on all the ways that God has worked in my life and what He did in Promise Keepers and what not here’s what I believe God is saying He wants to do.” And I explained in the room in San Diego there was 16 guys, 2 were Messianic Rabbi’s. To others were Messianic Jews and all the others were men but it was ethnically diverse. When I shared with them and I connected the dots I’m telling you the room just took on a profound aura. And it was obvious that these guys every one of them felt like what I was saying they were validating that you got to pursue this.
Sid: I can’t wait, what were you saying?
Coach: Well, I got to tell you one more football story so that you’ll understand. I was praying in July one year. I was in the book of Isaiah and I came across I know you know this but whenever the word of God is spoken, read, or heard and the Spirit of God takes the word of God and strikes fire that’s where there’s change. So with that in mind I would read the Bible through every year; some in the Old Testament, some in the New Testament on the program that I was on. And this particular day in July in the book of Isaiah I read Isaiah 11:11 “And the Lord will return a second time to recover the remnant of His people.” When I read that it just jumped off the Bible at me; I’m telling you that it just lit up my heart and so I stayed there; I mediated on it. Well, what happened was the Lord… we had the year before had an extraordinary season and I in my own football way I was asking God, “God are You saying You’re going to do it again a second time what You did last year with our football team? Now that’s not what the verse was saying.
Coach: But that’s what I was asking him. And the Lord affirmed that He was going to do again what He had did the year before. Well at the time that I’m reading this I said, it was in July but actually I was wrong it was in September. Our team was 1 – l and 1. We had won 1 game; we had lost 1 game and we had tied 1 game. We were ranked 20th in the nation. And the Lord showed me that your final season record will be Isaiah 11:11, meaning 11 – 1 and 1. The record was 1– 1 and 1, our final record would be 11– 1– 1. Sid as God as my witness I gathered these guys together that had been a part of the golden season and I said to them “You’re not going to believe this, but God showed me that here’s our final season record.” So sure enough we win the next 10 games; we gain a share of the national championship. You know when God tell you that He’s going to do something before He does it you don’t get any credit for it.
Sid: Of course.
Coach: And so we’re now in the waiting room connecting those dots; remembering how God supernaturally orchestrated that and brought that to bear. Why did He do that; why did God start Promise Keepers; why did God providentially do all of these extraordinary things? We had one event in Atlanta where 40,000 Pastors came to the event. And for about 45 minutes on one of those days there was a euphoric spirit that came over the place that was unlike anything that most of us had ever experienced. And so why did God do all of the these things? Well, for me in connecting the dots it’s back to Isaiah 11:11 and the Lord will return a second time. In other words what God wants to do through the One New Man; what is in God’s heart for the harvest that He wants to bring in is so extraordinary. But I couldn’t had ever gotten there without going into the waiting room without just meditating and chewing on scripture. When I read your book “The Race to Save the World” where you explain the power of the One New Man; I couldn’t contain myself because it was so clear. You were helping me to see things that I was coming to understand but not fully grasping. Now I began to realize what God has been doing all along through all of these football experiences. What He did in football is that He gave me favor; unmerited favor. What He did was He allowed me to have favor across the Body of Christ. I’ve got to tell you with ethic men of all colors I have favor, I have favor with the Jewish believer, it’s unmerited favor. And what God has done He has prepared me to join guys that He’s raised up like you and being part of ushering in the One New Man. There is a revival coming; there’s a move of the Spirit of God coming and I just know it. And my role in it is to ask God to do it; my role in it is daily regularly petition Him; call upon Him. Jeremiah 33: 3 says “Call upon Me and I will show you great and unsearchable things which you do not know.” I believe that what’s in God’s heart is so extraordinary and so powerful and it’s going to be realized; it’s going to be evidenced as… picture this if you can get this picture in your heart you got it. Picture a Gentile Believer who’s emptied of self and free of the fear of man. And then picture a Jewish Believer who’s selfless and fearless. In other words both of them have fresh fire and they have real fear of God. That is the component that God’s going to use to explode this revival as we go after the Jew first and then the Gentile. Listen to what it says here, it’s talking about Noah in Hebrews 11:7 it says “By faith Noah being divinely warned of things not yet seen moved with Godly fear.” See he prepared an ark for the saving of his household by which he condemned the world and he became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. He was able to see what was going to happen before it happened. What I believe that God has done with you; what I believe that He’s speaking into others is this One New Man. What’s in God’s heart for that is of such proportions; it’s going to bring in the peace that surpasses all human understanding. In other words, there’s a peace; you know who has that peace? The guy that’s empty of self and free of fear. Jesus said “Whoever would come after Me must deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow Me.” Look there’s two things there.
Sid: Coach we’re going to pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone Dr. Howard Morgan another Jewish man that is red hot for Yeshua, Hebrew for Jesus. I’m speaking to him at his home in Atlanta, Georgia. We’re featuring his book “Leaves from the Olive Tree” this week. In your book Howie you say something that could be construed as very very controversial, but the truth of the matter is God doesn’t change.
Dr. Morgan: Amen.
Sid: We’re not seeing results of the New Testament, the New Testament is of God therefore, one guess as to who’s done the changing it’s us. How have we changed? What have we changed from, and how do we change back? But here’s one of the statements you made and you said “That the system is based on an emperor system, and the emperor, or the pastor, only sees your value.” Of course there are exceptions, please please we’re not talking about everyone, but we’re saying that the system itself lends to this. “The emperor only sees your value as you work to accomplish his goals.” Please elaborate on that as you did in your book.
Dr. Morgan: I think it’s really import for us to understand as you described the system. The spirit of religion has created a system by which it operates. It puts people into the system, grinds them up literally robs them of their inheritance in Christ, then fits them into a mold where they live for the system. The insidious part of it is the deception that takes place as you go through the system where you think you’re really doing the will of God and you’ve been so deceived because you’re actually not doing the will of God you end up serving the system. So we have leaders who are in the system and they become what I call “Little Emperors.” You know, Caesar ruled the Greco-Roman world; the Caesars, the emperors ruled. Into this comes the Christ who says “If you want to be great in my kingdom, of which I am the King over all the emperors, I am the King over all the kings you are called to serve one another.” In so many churches we’re all serving the “pastors vision.” This doesn’t necessarily have to be in large churches it could be in home meetings where the same spirit of intimidation, manipulation, and control take…
Sid: But wait a second, what’s wrong with serving the pastor’s vision he’ll never implement it unless he’s got a team doing it?
Dr. Morgan: Yes, now… that’s a really good point because I want to talk about so many pastors visions that are really focused on themselves and their own ministry. I believe that the authentic vision of the New Testament because we’re talking about New Testament realities in that the authentic vision of the great Shepherd is to bring people to maturity. So that the vision of the pastor in my understanding should be “What can I do to make everyone in my congregation a disciple? How can I save them, mature them, train them, and send them? Not keep them for myself.” Oh Sid we have over the years helped so many people who as one sister describes she was a victim of church abuse. She came with a heart full of zeal for the Lord and ended up doing whatever the pastor wanted regardless of whether she believed it was the will of God to being told that she had to submit to authority. Inside her relationship with God was being crushed. Finally to the point where she could no longer do it anymore and having served faithfully for years; having given money faithfully for years at that point they just simply threw her out and dismissed her, marked her as a rebel because she could no longer do what the “system” was enforcing her to do. It was demanding, the intimidation, the manipulation, and the control was so intense that she could no longer function. And really it took her a couple of years to find her way back to her relationship with Jesus because it got so confused in her thinking because this was the church, these were the elders, this was the pastor telling her how she was supposed to live. So the vision of the church “If we’re going to see the glory of God” I believe that there’s going to have to be a radical paradigm shift a shift in the way we view the world, and the way we view church, and the way we do church that’s about equipping people challenging them to rise up and get into the flow of the river of God, and move in the power, and start to experiment, and start to take the risk of faith, and go out into the highways and byways and pray for people and watch what the Lord will do. Not hide in the service and say “Oh the pastor he’s anointed the evangelist who shows up, he’s anointed.” They’re supposed to be equipping ministries, Ephesians 4:11…
Sid: But you know what Howie, I believe the heart of good pastors is “I want this, but I don’t know how to do it.”
Dr. Morgan: Well here’s the thing…
Sid: How do you do… wait a second. How do you it with a church of a thousand people. I mean 99% of them have got to be sitting there just being fed. A few will be workers, but there’s not room within the church system for everyone to be a worker.
Dr. Morgan: So then we have to look at how the system has developed and how we have to raise up leaders over tens, and hundreds, and thousands. Each one who is discipling, and underline the word discipling, because what we’ve done in the system is made church going believers of people and told them “That it’s enough, it’s okay if you’re simply just going to a church on Sunday.” So that many people when we witness to them and ask if they’re a Christian their answer is “I go to church.” Instead we should say to them “What is the word of the Lord to you? What are you doing about it?” The system has created a dynamic where the pastor is happy that a thousand people are there and it feels good. But my question is of those 1000 people “How many are real disciples?” Then that pastor has to get before the Lord and say “How can I disciple every one of them? I need to raise up leaders over tens, and hundreds, and thousands so that each one has a “Father” in the Lord. Another thing we’ve lost down through the centuries that is so deeply engrained in our Jewish culture and world view and mindset of fathers raising sons, who raise grandsons so that all the tribes are coming to maturity. That was the vision that God gave, they didn’t fulfill it we know, but it’s still the system that God put in place in the Torah, and Brit Hachadashah, the New Testament. It’s all about raising up disciples and asking the Lord you know you may have to maybe break the church up into smaller groups like home meetings, and those wonderful things that are going on in so many places. Even that has to be focused on equipping people to do the work, to be discipled because you know what Sid, Jesus did not say “Go into all the world and make church going believers of everyone you meet.” What He did say was “Go into all the world and disciple the nations teaching them to obey the things that I have commanded you to do.”
Sid: So what you’re saying is the common theology is “Say a prayer with Billy and you go to heaven and everything is fine” is not really the whole story.
Dr. Morgan: Not at all, it’s the very very beginning of the story praying the prayer with Billy, repenting, then saying “Okay Billy, train me.” If Billy can’t train you then Billy needs to get trained so that he can train you, then you can get trained so that you can lead somebody to the Lord. If you’re one day older than somebody you can give them what you’ve learned in that one day. If you know one more verse than them you can help them with the one verse you’ve learned; each of us pouring in to each other’s lives. Oh my word Sid how many churches, big churches and nobody is talking to one another, nobody is fellowshipping. We’ve been in churches you know that the people left and they moved faster than the lines in Disney. You know, 2500 people out gone, you turn around the place is empty and it’s sad the place remains empty here’s a multi-million dollar facility and it’s used a few hours a week for the “theatre.” Oh and it’s great theatre I mean it’s a big wonderful band and lights and action and camera, and sound effects all this other kinds of stuff, but who is being equipped to do the work? Because the system makes people church goers rather than disciples, it makes people members of a local organization rather than members of one another. Being members of one another, and being disciples that’s hard work, there’s a lot of problems that have to be dealt with. So down through the centuries the system says “Well we don’t want to deal with the problem we’ll just leave the people alone they’ll come to church it’s okay if they don’t grow so much, it’s okay.” It’s not okay! If we have this passion this is a lot of hard work and it’s going to turn things upside down. I tell you what brother I believe there is tsunami tidal wave of revolution coming to the body of Christ. We are in a time I believe Sid of real apostolic and prophetic reformation and revolution in the body of Christ as things like… I’m not the only the one this thing, you know I’m catching the same wind that you are and many of men and women of God around the world are getting that are saying “God we’re doing things wrong, we’re not seeing the fruit.” What I’m sharing is just some of the little bits of insight that I’ve received and God is giving me more as I pray about this you know about how we’re supposed to be relating to one another all the time.
Sid: Howie, I must ask you a question.
Dr. Morgan: Sure.
Sid: Why do you keep referring to it as we are denying our Jewish roots, why don’t you just say what it is, Biblical roots?
Dr. Morgan: Right, well because I have a particular passion in my heart Sid that we get connected to our Biblical relationship and responsibility to the Jewish people. God spoke to me in a very profound way 15 years ago. Of course it’s absolutely our Biblical Jewish roots because we’re not talking about modern day Judaism, and modern day Orthodox, or Reform, or Liberal Judaism, we’re talking about our Biblical Jewish roots. We’re talking also about the Jewish people and the nation of Israel and being connected to the roots that then connect us to what God’s wanting to do with the nation of Israel.
Sid: You know Howie my question that I want to pose, and I want you Mishpochah to be kind of thinking about this. The call of the Jew was to be a light to the nations.
Dr. Morgan: Yes.
Sid: And we were, that’s why we have Christianity today. The call of the Gentile believer is to provoke the Jew to jealousy to reach the Jew so that the 2 can have the wall of separation come down and become that One New Race, that One New Man that Paul talks about. So that the full body can manifest in the glory of God can be poured out. So why wouldn’t the church want their Biblical Jewish roots, it makes no sense if the call is to reach the Jew why wouldn’t you want… I want you just to speculate on that. We’ll talk about this on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear the good news. Although this week we’re talking about the Israeli Palestinian situation that is so confusing to the world. And should not but is so confusing to even Christians. But we’re going to make some sense out of it because I have a Messianic Jewish Author Sandy Teplinsky. Speaking to her at her home in Anaheim, California. She has a legal background but she wrote this book in such simplistic understanding from the subjective historical side which you must understand and from the spiritual side to understand. Sandy I see the pictures of the suffering of the Palestinian people. I was in Paris, France a couple of years ago and in the streets they shut down the street and a group of Palestinians had pictures of what they call the atrocities happening to their people from Israel. And I saw such hatred its such venom towards Israel. And as a true believer I have a love for the Arab people. I have a love for and I have to say the so called Palestinian people. I see them as victims being used as victims being used by the greater Islamic world to accomplish their goal of forming a Palestinian State as a launching path to take over all of Israel. But my heart goes out for those people; as a Believer what should our position be with these Palestinians?
Sandra: We have to know that God loves the Arabic people; and that Jesus died for them. And if we love the Lord we must love the Arabic people and we must love Muslims. You know that we can love the sinner but hate the sin. And I believe that the Arabic people have a very high calling in God yet to be realized. I think that they will be used of God to help evangelize the Jewish nation. I think that we see glimpses of their redemptive gift already and redemptive destiny that I can’t go into right now but go in at much greater length in my book. But even as the Lord prophesied that Ishmael would be a wild donkey that the sons of Ishmael someday would become like that gentle donkey that Yeshua rode into Jerusalem on. And that they will be used to carry the very presence of God back to the Jewish people; back to Jerusalem. And that there will be a day when the Jews and Arabs, who are really cousins you know if you go back historically Biblically, will once again embrace each other and weep on each other’s neck like Jacob and Esau once did.
Sid: But Sandy you and I know that this will never be done politically; this will never be done through a military. This will only be done when Jew and Arab recognized the King of the Jews only.
Sandra: That was exactly my next sentence; (Laughing) absolutely and so it’s incumbent on us as believer’s to pray, pray and pray. Because God is profoundly visiting the Muslim people. We hear reports about supernatural visitations and…
Sid: Listen last week I took a taxi and the driver was from Jordan and he was Islamic and he was married to a Christian and he was separated ready to get a divorce. And he takes the guy 2 hours; he’s an elderly man and the man tells him everything about his life. Everything and he says “You must return to your wife.” Jesus is real and told him personal things.
Sid: And then he takes him 2 hours to this taxi ride and the guy says “I don’t want to go here take me back. And he takes him back another 2 hours and he continues to tell him everything personal about his life. And there was a big conference going on in Charlotte, North Carolina and there were no hotel rooms but he finally after going to all these different hotels they find one room for this old man and they put him in the room. And he says I’ll pick you up in the morning. The taxi driver comes in the morning and they say the old man never registered; there is no one here by that name. And the guy realized that it was an angel and he made Jesus his Lord. These supernatural visitations are happening all over the place with Muslims.
Sandra: Absolutely, we need to pray that will increase that God will continue to visit them. And you know even the Israeli government has; Israeli officials have encouraged believers to witness the Muslim Arabs realizing that those that really do come to an understanding of what true Christianity is about with a relationship with the Lord Yeshua and inherence to His word cannot hate Israel. But can only love Israel out of it’s love for Yeshua. And so we have placed a high priority of praying for the Arabs and on ministering to the Arab believers because they are much in need of our support and out encouragement.
Sid: Sandy how in the world is your premise of what is going on in Israel is going to be used to refine the Body of Messiah?
Sandra: We have to understand Sid that how we treat Israel reflects how we would treat the Lord Yeshua Himself if He were here. Now that’s quite a profound statement I realize for many people. But the Lord spoke to me one day which I later confirmed through scripture study that in the parable of the sheep and the goats back in Matthew 25:40 when Yeshua says to His disciples that when He was in prison, when he was hungry, when he was sick; that those who ministered to His needs ministered to Him. And as we do likewise to the least of his brothers we do so to Him. That within the context of the story He is speaking of the last days, which increasingly seem to be our days. And He is speaking fundamentally of His brothers according to the flesh, His brothers. The plain and simple meaning of the word brothers. And so as we come into that especially as we come into that time we the Body of Messiah will be judged according to how we have treated the Jewish people. We will be determined to be either sheep or goats. And if you go back to the very first study Bible produced for the NIV, the International Version of the scriptures there’s a very interesting note that states ultimately that whether or not a person is saved will be evidenced by his treatment of the Jewish people.
Sid: I mean how in the world could someone be anti-Semitic if they have the King of the Jews in their heart. If the blood of the greatest Jew who ever lived is flowing through the heart of a Christian how can a Christian be anti-Jewish the two don’t connect.
Sandra: Now the challenge is increasingly in our times it will be increasingly incorrect to stand with Israel.
Sid: Now I must ask you this question; “Why is it a major Christian denomination said “We will not invest our pension money” and they have billions of dollars “in any company that does business with Israel.” A major Christian denomination, why is it that the World Council of Churches totally denounces Israel and is Pro-Palestinian that represents 400 million Christians? Why these are Christians, why are they doing this Sandy?
Sandra: Israel is destined to be a dividing line in the last daysChurch. And I believe that we need to be very sober about the admonishment of the scriptures on pertaining to our treatment of Israel and the warnings that God gives us. Not just in a parable in Matthew but through prophets like Obadiah that our treatment of Israel will determine our standing with God. Now we have an enemy Satan and so Satan hates the Jews and he knows that if he can annihilate Israel he can prevent Jesus return because Jesus is going to return to a Jewish nation in a Jewish capital to Jerusalem. And so Satan is working night and day fighting tooth and nail to cause contention and division in the very people that God has intended to love and support Israel namely the church by causing them to not only fall from God’s commandments concerning His treatment of Israel. But I believe also fall even from the Lord; fall away from the Lord. And I would dare say that our relationship with the Lord that we need to seriously consider that in mistreating Israel we could possibly, very possibly fall away from the faith. It’s that serious!
Sid: You mentioned Obadiah, would you paraphrase what Obadiah says.
Sandra: Obadiah which is a wonderful 1 chapter book that I encourage everybody to read you can go through it in 5 minutes. States that those who stand idly by while Israel is plundered by her enemies will be treated by God the same as He is going to treat her enemies. In other words to just stand aloof is the word that scripture uses.
Sid: Look at all the countries that not just stood aloof but went against Israel throughout all the scripture; throughout all of history. Take Great Britain and look what happened. I mean they used to say that Great Britain had so much land throughout the world the sun was always on a portion of their land. And now, look how small they are; what did they do? They missed handled Israel. But what you’re saying is that if you’re just neutral it’s horrible.
Sandra: You know what Sid I don’t say it God says it.
Sid: That’s even better!
Sandra: Obadiah says it and he speaking to the Gentle nations. And of course all this stems back doesn’t it to the very fundamental principal of scriptures from Genesis 12:3 then God says “I will bless those who bless you.” Speaking of the ethnic biological descendants of Abraham. “And who ever curses you I will curse.” And of course Isaac inherits that promised blessing and Jacob inherits that promised blessing. And Jacob then becomes Israel and so the sons and daughters of Jacob are the Jewish people of today inherit that dynamic that those who bless them; those who curse them are cursed. And we see nations who like Great Britain or Spain or the former Soviet Union cursing the Jews we inevitably see them cursed. And it plays out not just on a national level but on a personal level. Individuals who bless the Jewish nation will be blessed; and those who curse them will be cursed.
Sid: Guess what just as I said that someone’s was healed; someone with a headache the headache is gone in Jesus Name. We’re getting ready Mishpochah to blow the grandest shofar; oh the grandest trumpet in Zion; we want everyone everywhere to hear the good news we want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. My guest by way of telephone is Pastor Michael Cameneti. And He is pastor of Canton Christian Fellowship in Canton, Ohio. Michael you are talking about a subject; you have written a book about a subject that is probably about. the most important subject that a Bible Believer can hear at this precise moment in history. And I really believe that it’s part of a prophecy that was given several years ago by Dr. Kenneth Hagin. I heard this prophecy but there was a part on 2005. There are people that give prophesies and in there are prophets of God. And Dr. Kenneth Hagin was a Prophet of God he’s now in Heaven but his words go on. And I wonder if you have that in front of you if you could read exactly what he prophesied would occur in the year 2005.
Michael: Sure, Sid it is great to be on your program. The prophecy went like this: 2005 Brother Hagin starts to prophecy and in fact he begins to weep. And he asked the Lord it says this “Will time last or will time cease.” And then he says this “It will be a year of judgment” and he actually reemphasizes that judgment. And then he said “If we judge ourselves we will not be judged.” And of course that’s a scripture 1st Corinthians 11:31. Then he goes into that when we are judged we are turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the spirit might be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus.” In fact that’s another scripture out of 1st Corinthians 5. Then he says “There will be judgment on the individual realm; judgment in the family realm and then judgment on the national level. A day of sternness; a day of discipline; a day of correction but the end of the year will be glorious. But yes amends will be made; many will judge themselves and nations will turn to God and it will end 2005 in a glorious manner.” So I believe this prophecy and I believe in our church personally that we’re pasturing in here in ` that we are teaching right now to our church members to get ready for 2005. I’m doing a series right now that goes really along with a book that we’ve written called “The Missing Ingredient to Success.” This book is about the fear of the Lord and fearing God; which is a subject that we don’t hear a lot about…
Sid: And you know judging on what is going on in the church and I’m talking about homosexuality; divorce; addictions of all kinds. There is no fear of God obviously, and Christians I liken it to when someone has been a non-Christian their whole life and then they have a revelation of who Jesus is they are on fire for God. They are red hot for God, but it seems as though the things that go on in this life, the problems, the business that the fire has gone out on many Christians.
Michael: It’s very true. And in fact Jesus said this in Revelation’s Chapter 3 and John’s writing and Jesus said “I know your works.” And actually in the Greek it says “I know them first hand; I know them intimately; I know exactly what you’re doing first hand.” So God knows what we’re doing; Jesus knows what we’re doing on this earth right now for Him. And it says “That thou are neither cold or hot.” Now this is written to specifically a church; written to the pastor of that church. John obviously delivered it to them; they read it to that church. The church was not hot nor cold but Jesus said “I would rather have you hot or cold; but He says that “Because you are lukewarm; neither hot nor cold I’m going to spew.” Or the Greek says “I’m going to vomit you out of my mouth.” That’s not a pleasant thought for any of us we don’t want that to happen in our lives or with Jesus. But I am seeing a trend in the church in the local churches overall not just in our church that people are not on fire. I came out of the world; I came out of getting saved from doing things that were pretty much not good and not always want to talk about. I was not living for God and I didn’t know Him but I got born again and asked Jesus into my heart and I got on fire for God. I’ve had to work to keep that; I think that Christians think that it’s just an automatic thing. I’ve had to stay in fellowship with Him. Stay in His word, stay praying, stay in church. And through those things it’s kept me on fire for God. But a lot of Christians have lost that fire and my desire is to get them back to where they get their first love. Like Revelations Chapter 2 Jesus is wring to a wonderful Church; the Church at Ephesus.
Sid: But guess what; it’s more serious than that Michael; I mean if Kenneth Hagin was a prophet of God which both of us believe he was.
Sid: It’s very serious. Let me ask you a few questions on that prophecy.
Sid: Number 1 he talked about it was almost he posed this question: “Will time last or will time cease?” In other words what he was seeing he almost questioned as to whether this was it.
Michael: Right, he obviously you know saw something that made him wonder is this going to be it because of what happens. And of course judgments not a popular subject, that’s for sure, and especially not in the church because we do live in the age of grace; we live in the church age. But I think people have forgotten even in the Book of Acts or even in the New Testament that there were times that judgment came. I think that we forgot about that. And judgment is not to put us into fear; I don’t believe that this prophecy was giving so that Christians will be afraid of 2005; they’ll be afraid to enter it. In fact a brother that I heard ministering he said this “God’s not running out of mercy; God’s running out of time.” So I believe that the prophets of the land are saying and I believe that seeing what we’re seeing right now in the land that the end is coming. And obviously, Brother Hagin must have seen something that he was thinking is this going to be it because this judgment is coming.
Sid: Well, he was weeping it had to be horrific.
Sid: But he talked about judging of the individual; the family and the nation. What do you think he meant by the individual?
Michael: Individual I believe it’s personal. Where us as believer’s can do something; in fact this is what I’m teaching on Sunday mornings that we can do something to avoid judgment in our own person lives. There are some adjustments you can make in your Christian life.
Sid: I want to cover a little of that this week and that’s all we can do is just a little of that. What about family? What do you think he meant by family, judgments in the family?
Michael: Well, in America at this time they say “Whether it’s in the church or whether it’s outside of the church the divorce rate is at 50%. Some people have said that it’s actually higher in the church it’s at 51%, but regardless of whether that’s true or not we know marriages are having an attack people are getting divorced. I believe that God’s saying that as family’s to say “No” to the trend that’s in the world which is divorce. And God doesn’t like divorce; God doesn’t want us to get divorced. Now he loves people and he loves the people that still get divorce, but what he wants to see is for these families to stay together. We understand that it’s causing children to have problems; it’s causing the family to have problems; it’s causing the families to have a pressure; it’s causing wives to have problems. And so what we want to see and I believe what God wants to see and I believe what this meant on a family realm is that we get the family’s walking with God. Let’s get them back to church and back into the things of God so that we don’t see judgment come on families individually.
Sid: And what do you think he meant when he prophesied of national judgment.
Michael: Well, national judgment I don’t believe it’s just for America but I do believe America is up for judgment like any other country because we see in the word of God that there’s going to be a judgment of nations. I believe America has to step up and say we are a Christian nation; we were definitely founded on those facts and on those ways and principals. So we have to come back to God as a nation; so we have things like gay marriage rights that are we going to allow that or not. America’s going to have to vote on these things and what about abortion. These are things that God would definitely not be happy with in our country. The level of sin and how things have come out of the closet and there are all kinds of things that are accepted. I believe America has to judge itself and if it doesn’t this prophecy says that there will be judgment on a national level. We don’t know exactly how that will work or exactly what it’s going to be. But He does say that America, or not America specifically, but nations are going to be judged.
Sid: You know I hate to be pessimistic but I just don’t have the faith for a national turning to God. I just believe that throughout history; throughout scripture when the sins reach a certain point judgment is inevitable; it can’t even be stopped.
Michael: We’re all familiar with the Old Covenant in the Old Testament. And in the Old Testament the children of Israel when we read the Book of Kings, 1st Kings, 2nd Kings we even read other books that are in there like Judges, we find out that the children of Israel kept on leaving God. Their leadership their Kings kept on turning from God. And when things go to a certain level when they would turn their hearts away from God judgment would come and then their hearts would turn back to God. And we are different them them; we have God now living in us we’re born again; we have a new spirit on the inside. They didn’t have necessarily that they were believing on the one that was going to come. But as America as a nation there are times for a nation that judgment has to come so that that nation will turn back to God because they’re not going to necessarily do it by our preaching or by what they’re hearing us say. Now there are many believers in this nation; we have more mega-churches in the country than we’ve ever had. More people attending those kind of churches. But there are a lot of people that are un-churched or are not going to church or backslidden that need to come back to God.
Sid: Now on that prophecy it sounded like 2005 would end wonderfully because of what…
Michael: The end it says “Amends shall be made many will judge themselves,” so obviously people do the right thing, “nations will turn to God,” and he actually laughs at that point, and then he says “it will end in a glorious manner.”
Sid: Michael we’re out of time right now we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.