Sid:  Joel on yesterday’s broadcast, you articulated very clearly who Mystery Babylon was. You explained that it is Saudi Arabia. Especially in Revelation 17 and 18, Isaiah 15, Jeremiah 50, and 1 Peter 5:13 you go by brilliantly point by point the scriptures and show all the other nations cannot qualify based on what the scriptures say, and only Saudi Arabia can qualify. Just briefly tell us a few reasons why Saudi Arabia is the harlot.

Joel:  One of the criteria that the Bible lays out for us is that it says this woman will sit in an aramos, which translated is desert. If we’re talking about the Vatican or Rome or the U.S., they don’t sit in the desert. This is not just an allegorical or symbolic term that we should throw away. All of it points to it being a literal reference to the region where this woman is pictured. Another significant issue is that Saudi Arabia is a rabid consumer, and in Revelations17 and 18, the harlett is a rabid consumer. Saudi Arabia doesn’t produce anything except for oil. They literally import everything. The nations of the earth will feel the wrath of this woman’s false religion. As we discussed yesterday, Saudi Arabia is the premier financier of terrorism.

Sid:  It talks about extravagant luxury. Why does Saudi Arabia qualify?

Joel:  Saudi Arabia is unlike any other nation in the world. It’s a nation that is run by a family that is drowning in wealth, and when you look at examples of Saudi luxury, it absolutely surpasses any American President, actor, or real estate mogul. These Saudi princes have so much money to throw around, and the amount of luxury and excess that they live in is unparalleled, and it meets that description that we see reiterated in Revelation.

Sid:  Another thing it says is that the people of the earth will commit fornication with this Great Harlot.

Joel:  This is one of the most significant and important criteria. It needs to be realized that this word fornication is not adultery. A lot of believers have said that this indicates that whoever, this woman is, that she existed in a preexisting covenant with God and then broke it. That would be adultery. The word used in Greek was not adultery but fornication. What that means is that anyone throughout the earth, who does not worship his Creator, the one true God of the Bible, is involved in idolatry. That’s fornication. In the Old Testament there are examples of pagan cities such as Ninevah and Thyre that were called fornicators because they were involved in idolatry. Saudi Arabia today funds, spreads and exports the radical Islamic ideology.

Sid:  Give me an example of what they’re doing to the American universities right in the open.

Joel:  There’s one prince that’s very worthy of taking note of-Alwaleed Bin Talal. He’s one of the wealthiest of all the Saudi princes. He throws money around left and right to promote the Islamic cause. He gave the Harvard University and Georgetown University each 20 million dollars to establish what they’ll call an Islamic studies program, which ultimately amounts to nothing more than a Saudi Arabia wahabi propaganda studies program to spread radical Islam or to spread looking at Islam favorably throughout the earth. Prince Alwaleed comes over to the U.S. and he lectures these universities on the U.S. needing to be more tolerant.

Sid:  When I think of Harvard University, I think of a large Jewish population. Maybe I’m wrong. How in the world do the Jewish students put up with that?

Joel:  The way that the Islamists work is that they preach out of one side of their mouth a peaceful and tolerant form of Islam, and they lecture us, and they demand that we are more tolerant, but then back in their own country they don’t allow a single synagogue or church or any other religious institution to be built other than a mosque. They play both sides, and we here in the West who have been hand-strung by moral and cultural relativity, welcome it and we say, “Yes we of all people need to be more tolerant.”

Sid:  Now could it be that former President Bush spread the lie that Islam is a peace-loving religion because of his long family ties with the Saudi royalty?

Joel:  Few people realize the depth that there is in regard to the Bush family with the Saudi princes. Prince Bandar was the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the U.S. for many years. He is a deep and close friend of the Bush family. We need to realize that this individual over the years has been seen making statements, which indicate that he does support radical Islam to a degree.

Sid:  Why does someone like former President Jimmy Carter bash Israel so much? Is there an ulterior motive that you know of?

Joel:  I think that can be answered with three words. That’s money, money, money. When you look at the history of Carter’s relationship with the Saudis, he’s never come out and opened up about how much money they’ve donated and given to him in various gifts. It is in the tens of millions perhaps even more. Anyone who thinks that 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 million dollars doesn’t have an impact on somebody, they’ve never heard the term blackmail or the Saudi lobby-this has deeply impacted the approach Carter has taken. He will openly bash Israel and refer to Israel as an apartheid nation. He will never once mention the human rights violations that are so rampant in the nation of Saudi Arabia. This is blatant hypocrisy, and that’s what the Saudis get with their tens of millions of dollars put in the back pocket of even American presidents.

Sid:  What about someone like our secretary of state Hillary Clinton or her husband?

Joel:  Just before the election it was revealed that the Clintons had to open up their donation list, and what we saw was that they had received over thirty million dollars from Saudi and gulf Arabs. Whether it’s Bush, Carter, Clinton, Obama.

Sid:  What did Obama get?

Joel:  Those who have studied history say that when he went to college, he was funded by Saudi princes. There were some radical black nationalists that converted to Islam and had ties to the Saudi family, and through that Obama’s education was funded. Today he still has ties to the Saudi Arabian government. When we look at the scripture, it’s very clear. It says that the kings of the earth commit adultery with her. This is one of the premier descriptions of the harlot. When we look at the greatest most significant leaders, the kings of the earth so to speak, we see that every one of them is literally committing adultery with the Saudi princes.

Sid:  If we see this harlot as Saudi Arabia then who is the beast and define the beast.

Joel:  The beast is a coalition of ten nations and many other nations that will be involved with them that will come together in the last days and form the final manifestation of beast-empire. In Revelation 13 it says that the beast had a fatal head wound, and then it came back. In essence this is referring to an empire that appeared dead and then was revived. As I mention and discuss in my DVDs, the primary nations that will make up the beast-empire are the nations of Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Sudan and Lybia. These are the nations that will make up the revived Islamic empire. The head-wound that the beast suffers, a lot of Christians believe that is referring to the antichrist. The motive of beast comes from Daniel 7 and it is referring to an empire. For over five hundred years the nation of Turkey ruled the Middle East.

Sid:  Where do Gog and Magog come in? Isn’t that Russia?

Joel:  That’s what many people say. Unfortunately if you look at Ezekiel

Sid:  We’re out of time. Lets pick up there on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid:  Joel Richardson, there’s some terms that we read about-Mystery Babylon, Great Harlot. You’ve connected the dots in a way I have not seen before. Tell me who Mystery Babylon is. Is it Rome, New York City?

Joel:  Well, Mystery Babylon is probably indentifying this mysterious woman in Revelation 17 and 18. It’s really one of the greatest mysteries of Bible prophecy. Rome, New York City, the United States-these are all suggestions that have been put forward as theories. Some people say it is the summation of all the false religions systems down through history. The key to unlocking the identity of the Mystery Babylon is found in a really strange place. It’s in the last chapter of the first epistle of Peter. The clue that we find there is that Peter was actually in Rome at the time that early church history is thoroughly consistent and universal with the idea that Peter was in Rome. Writing from Rome he said, “The church that is in Babylon.” He used the word Babylon and applied it to the city of Rome. What we learn from that is when we see and understand the simple story that is laid out in Revelation 12, 13, 17 and 18, it’s a story of seven world, biblical, and historical empires that have been empires that have all carried a satanic and anti-Semitic and later an antichrist spirit. Each one of these empires have been the primary empires down through a biblical and world history that have sought to destroy the Jewish people. That story is told where this beast is sitting before the woman in the book of Revelation, and this woman is Israel. She’s about to give birth to a male child Who is the Messiah. This beast which is satan wants to devour Israel. He wants to devour the Messiah to thwart God’s plan for the ages through the Messiah. Satan’s primary tool down through the ages has been this series of world-pagan empires-these anti-Semitic empires. Babylon was the city that was the spiritual and financial capitol of ancient Babylonia. That was one of these beasts-these satanic empires of history. In the first century, when the epistle of Peter was written, the Roman Empire was the beast empire of that time. In Revelation 17 we see that Rome was the empire that was the sixth in the list of empires. The city of Rome was spiritual and financial capitol of the Roman Empire. We have this pattern which is simply to say that Mystery Babylon is the reigning spiritual and economic capitol of whichever beast empire is dominant in the earth at this time, and as I discussed in the DVD series, the beast empire of our day that follows after the pattern of all of these previous pagan empires is the Islamic Empire.

Sid:  In your teaching you explain, why it can’t be a lot of the other places that people said from scripture, but now the big question is, “Where is the capitol of that empire.”

Joel:  This comes across as novel to most people when they first hear it. But I think that you’ll agree that after it’s expounded, it made more sense than anything I had ever heard. The reason is, Sid, is that Revelation 17 and 18 gives us numerous criteria to identify Mystery Babylon, and of the different suggestions that you’ve mentioned that have been popular in the church through recent years and down through history, all of them meet some of the criteria, but none of them meet all the criteria. All these theories have a few significant problems. However, the identification that I’m about to mention doesn’t have any problems. It matches all of the criteria to a “T.” If we agree that the primary anti-Semitic, antichrist empire of the earth today is the Islamic Empire, then we ask, “What is the spiritual and financial capitol of that empire?” The question that I like to ask people is, “Were do 1.7 billion people pray five times a day toward a particular city in the earth?” That city is Mecca. Mecca is the greatest city of idolatry that the world has ever seen.

Sid:  That’s in Saudi Arabia.

Joel:  That’s the spiritual capitol, and beyond that Saudi Arabia unequivocally is the greatest financial source of terrorism and radical Islam throughout the earth beyond any other nation. Saudi Arabia is the nation that has funded the spread of Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, and all these various groups. They pay for the Islamic centers, mosques, and the midrosis, they raise up radical hate preachers, they send them out as missionaries, they fill the mosques with the radical anti-Semitic literature that has the Saudi Arabian’s signature in the books. The city of Mecca is the womb from which Islam burst forth into the earth, and today Saudi Arabia is still the spiritual and financial womb of all of the radical Islam.

Sid:  Out of curiosity, who would you say these one and a half billion people are praying to? Who are they praying to five times a day facing Mecca?

Joel:  There’s two ways to answer that question. First of all I would say that if you’re worshipping any other god other than the God of the Bible, then you are committing idolatry.

Sid:  Yes, but they say allah is god. It’s just the Arabic name for god.

Joel:  Nowhere in the Bible is God ever referred to by the name of allah. The Bible does tell us the name of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. That is Yahveh. It’s very clear when He appeared to Moses in the desert, He said, “Yahveh is the name that you shall tell them. I am the One that sent you.” The fact of the matter is that allah, the god of Islam, is just one more manifestation of ancient Near Eastern, astoral, and war deities. There are numerous. There’s Zen; there’s Marduke. These are all the gods that were worshipped by the pagan people of the desert. Today, the god of Islam is just one more manifestation of satan who is trying to masquerade as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Sid:  You may not be able to answer this question but how did a man that I believe id a born-again Christian that was president of the United States, President Bush take the montra, “Islam is a peace-loving religion”? I don’t see anything in their history that’s peace-loving.

Joel:  The way that I always answer that is that I always say, “Unfortunately, in that case President Bush was being a much better politician than he was being a good theologian or good Christian. Some people would say that they understand why he was doing that, but personally as a Christian I would never openly declare such a lie.

Sid:  Joel, I’ve often pondered. Why does someone like President Bush who I believe is a born-again Christian, constantly feed us the line that Islam is a peace-loving religion? As I study it’s history, I don’t see anything peace-loving about it. I see the opposite of peace-loving, but then when I started watching your four-session and two DVDs on understanding the times, and I saw how the long family relationship of both Bushes with the Saudi royals, I began to understand how the Great Harlette is Saudi Arabia. You point out masterfully in your DVD teaching about people like President Obama and the money he got from the Saudis and Jimmy Carter and the money he got from the Saudis.

Sid:  My guest, Joel Richardson, takes a subject that most Christians will readily admit they don’t understand the end times. They don’t understand the book of Revelation. They put the whole thing on a shelf. My guest has been raised up by God to make the complex mysteries simple. Joel Richardson, because tied in with the end times is the religion of Islam, there have been numerous death threats. I can’t even tell people where you live. Is that correct?

Joel:  Yeah. I’m ok with the Midwest, but beyond that when people ask me where I am I say, “I’m in my secret bunker.”

Sid:  Ok let’s get right to the meat. I am fascinated with the information you have on our president, our former presidents, especially Jimmy Carter, but let’s get to something even more important than that because they’ll get the CDs that you have. They’ll get the DVDs that you have. Tell me a bit, I’ve never heard of this before, this treaty that throughout Muslim history show a pattern of what went on but will go on in the United States. I can’t understand how you can know this. Our state department and our administration doesn’t know this, because if they knew what you are about ready to state publicly on the air, they would never be trying to orchestrate peace agreements with the Palestinians in Israel. Tell me a bit about this treaty.

Joel:  The treaty that you mentioned is called the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah. Really what I often say is that if you want to have a basic understanding of Middle Eastern politics, and the Palestinian issue, you have to understand this treaty and it’s role in Islamic history. Unfortunately, our president administration has said, “The present issue in the world with terrorism is not related to Islam. It is merely a reaction against imperialism.” But again unless we get into Islamic theology, the religious doctrines of Islam, we’re going to miss this basic fact and it’s affect on the Middle East and not the only the Middle Eastern politics but Biblical prophecy. As the story goes, Mohammed had been kicked out of Mecca. He and his very small band of Muslim followers had moved to a nearby city of Medina, and Mecca was the religious capitol of the region. Every year the surrounding pagans would all make pilgrimage to Mecca to worship their various gods at the kaba (the cube in the middle of Mecca).

Sid:  What do you mean “the cube in the middle of Mecca”?

Joel:  The kaba is the shrine. The kaba in Arabic simply means “the cube.” It’s a black cube that is a building and that is literally the shrine that throughout the earth everyday 1.7 billion Muslims bow five times everyday towards Mecca. They pray toward the kaba, and that’s the shrine that sits in the middle of the haram sharif. That’s what they call the noble sanctuary in the middle of Mecca. During the time of Mohammed it was filled with idols so this was a shrine that was pre-existent to the religion of Islam. Mohammed told his small band, roughly a thousand people, that they were going to make pilgrimage that year. They were trying to self-fulfill this prophecy. They were approaching Mecca; they came to a place called the Spring of Hudaibiya. The most powerful tribe of the region was the Carashis. The Carashis stopped Mohammed and his men at the spring and really abused Mohammed in front of his men, mocked him quite a bit. They said, “No, you’re not going to make pilgrimage, absolutely not, but we will make a treaty with you.” This treaty has come down in Islamic history as the Treaty of Hudaibiya. They said, “From now on, if any of your men want to leave Islam, you have to let them go, but if any of our people want to convert to your group and become Muslims, you have to send them back. For the next ten years, we will have a ceasefire. You will not attack us; we will not attack you. Next year, well let you come back; you can make a pilgrimage.” The next day all of Mohammed’s men were really upset, because he was looking like a false prophet. Mohammed said that that night allah had given him a revelation. He said that this was a great victory because he realized that the most powerful tribe in the region had agreed not to attack them. Over the next two years, Mohammed began attacking a series of Jewish villages plundering, raiding, pillaging, and massacring these villages. He said to the people, “If you will join in these raids from now on, you get your percentage of the plunder, booty, women, and slaves.” Within two years as Mohammed became a pirate of the desert he went from a thousand men to roughly ten thousand. The Muslims were larger than the Carashis. He broke the Treaty of Hudaibiyah. He came and invaded Mecca. He conquered the Carashis, and he was now the undisputed leader of the entire region. Muslims today believe that Mohammed was the perfect man and perfect example for all Muslims to follow. Today all Muslim politicians and leaders, look to this example of making a treaty when you are weak in order to gain strength, in order to reload, in order to gain strategic dominance over your opponents.

Sid:  Use a modern-day example of Yasser Arafat. How did he use that treaty?

Joel:  This is going back to the eighties. Arafat had made a significant treaty with Israel. Many from the Israeli Left were very excited about this. They were talking about moving towards peace. Then Arafat was speaking before a group in South Africa. He spoke in Arabic. To the people in Arabic he said, “Listen as far I’m concerned, this treaty is just like the treaty that Mohammed himself engaged in with the Carashis. This is no more or less than the Treaty of Hudaibiyah. We will use this treaty in our onward march towards Jerusalem. What Arafat didn’t know was that someone was recording this speech. When it was translated, he was caught openly admitting that he had not literally entered into any desire for peace.

Sid: Fast-forward. President Obama, the state of Israel, and the Palestinians. What is going on when the Palestinians say, “We want a small portion of the land for ourselves”? Do you believe that for one minute?

Joel:  They call it the two-state solution. This has been something that has been pushed from the Bush administration and the Clinton. Everyone’s failed. Obama’s picking up the baton, and he’s going for the two-state solution. He’s pushing the Israeli government to go for the same thing. Netanyahu is potentially open to discussing such a thing. Within the very charter of Hamas and all of the various political leaders even the Palestinian side of the West Bank they all have history of openly stating the fact that they want to see the annihilation of the state of Israel. So while they may enter into a treaty, on order to get confession in order to see Israel give confessions and come their way, their ultimate goal is always to see the destruction of Israel.

Sid:  But wait a second. The U.S. will back Israel up. So they’ll never be able to get more than just the Palestinian state. Uh oh. Maybe that’s why our military is being weakened, and they know that.

Joel:  Absolutely. There’s no question that those in Israel on the right who refuse to even discuss a two-state solution, who are determined to be strong to make Israel’s military strong in order to rightfully defend themselves, they are on the position of right. History has born out the fact that when you have a nation of people…..

Sid: But listen. Our state department knows what you’re saying. Why are they still proceeding forward? Our administration knows-whoops we’re out of time.

Sid:  Joel is a nice Catholic from Boston, and it’s a hot day. There’s a tent meeting. A revival is going on. Now Joel is not interested in spiritual things. He just thinks that maybe he can go in that water and cool off. Is that really the way it was Joel Richardson?

Joel:  Everything except for the good before Catholic. I was raised Catholic fairly nominally. By the time that I was nineteen, which is when I came to the Lord, I was very far even from my Catholic roots. When I was nineteen, a friend of mine and I had driven from South Boston to the suburbs of Memphis, TN. It was just one street over from Elvis Presley Blvd. We pulled up to a grocery store, and in the back of this field next to the grocery store was a big old southern holiness tent revival. It was a hot day in the end of August. We had a little truck with no air conditioning. When we pulled in I had the bright idea to get baptized and cool off. My friend thought that that was a good idea. The end result was that we found the preacher. It was in between services. This was a revival that was going on for a few days. We got baptized, and of course we stayed for the meeting. There were various individuals that knew that we didn’t belong there. We had long hair at the time. I was a little South Boston hippy drug addict I guess you could say. They began trying to minister and witness to us. As the meeting went on, numerous people were being touched by the Holy Spirit. Different people were being healed. I’ve always been a skeptical individual. I was watching this and there was one gentleman who really caught my attention. He was an older gentleman who went up and he said that he had been blind most of his life. Even from a distance you could tell that his eyes were sort of white, blue, gray. He didn’t have pigment in his pupils. As the preacher prayed for him, he asked the man if he could see. Very hesitantly the man said that he thought he could a little bit. Instead of giving testimony and jumping up and down, he walked off stage and wandered out into the cars. They were all parked in the field. I followed him.

Sid:  Why?

Joel:  I was curious. I wanted to see. It was my opportunity to interview someone who said that they were being healed. He caught my attention. You could tell that he was looking around, and that he himself was pretty mystified. You could see the look of shock on his face. Something had happened. As I walked up to him, he was fifteen yards off kneeling down in the grass, I could hear sobbing and weeping like a little baby. This gentleman was probably in his sixties. I walked up and began to ask him what was taking place. He sort of interviewed me a little bit. He said that he had been blind his whole life. He could see for the first few years as a child. His hand reached up to the sky. He was just praising God. He was just weeping and he said, “Right now, I can see the stars.”

Sid:  That had to have such an impact on you, and then, that very same evening, were you saved?

Joel:  I was saved. I knew at that moment that I had to take all that was taking place seriously. I knew that no matter how much I would like to write it all off as fanaticism, I knew that something had taken place. This man was being genuine. As I went back into the meeting, the preacher was reading from the gospels. He was reading from the sermon of John the Baptist. He said, “The ax at the root of the tree has already been laid. Therefore bear in keeping with repentance lest you be cast into the fire.” At that moment, the Holy Spirit confronted me and He told me, “If you don’t repent of your entire life, your entire life is a lie. If you don’t repent tonight, right now, if you don’t completely give Me your life, you will spend eternity in hell. You will go to hell.” My response, which shocked me, was, “Absolutely. You’re right. My entire life is a lie. If I don’t repent I will end up going to hell and deserving it.”

Sid:  You know what is so obvious to me? You were set up by God, Joel. Then you became a believer. You were minding your own business in a large meeting of about seven thousand people. The prophet, who was speaking, calls you out. What does he say?

Joel:  Fast-forward several years, and my wife and I are sitting in the back of a very large auditorium. He calls both of us out. He told me that because of my faithfulness in my season of waiting on him in intercession, the Lord is going to release me into revelation and He’s going to essentially download revelation from His heart and mind to mine. He’s going to begin opening up the scriptures. This is tied into another prophecy that my wife had received that she would marry someone with new insights into the end times and that I would actually release revelation concerning the end times.

Sid:  Now you are actually doing this right now. Are you as amazed as the people you talk to of this revelation you’ve been getting? Because it’s different than most people that are teaching end times.

Joel: To a degree it is. One of the things that I continually hear as people read or listen to my material, is they say, “I had a dozen ‘aha’ moments.” I always respond by saying, “Me too as I’m writing.” Winston Churchill said, “If you want to learn about a subject, then either write a book or teach about it.” When you take the time to prepare, pray and study, when you seek the Lord in order to teach others, you yourself are taught in the process. In the process of putting so much of my material together, I have also had numerous “aha” moments.

Sid:  It must just pop out like a revelation. I know when this happens to me, I’m as mystified as excited as the people that hear it.

Joel:  I’ll tell you something personal, Sid. When I was a child, I had a repeated dream throughout my childhood. It was that I would discover a secret panel in the house that I grew up in. I would discover a secret room. I would always wake up from this dream with this intense sense of excitement that I had lived in this house my whole life, but I had never known that there was this secret room in my house. As I become an adult, I still have the dream, but it’s changed. Since becoming a believer, I have a dream that as I’m reading the Bible, I open up the Bible and I find a new book. I say, “Wait a minute. Where’s this book been? I’ve never seen this book.” As I begin reading it, it’s exciting, and there’s this energy on me. Every time I have that dream, it usually follows that as I begin opening up the Bible, I’m not literally finding a new book, but it’s as if the Lord’s opening up His books that are already there. He’s releasing understanding and revelation.

Sid:  I can tell you, Joel, that as I watch your DVD series, I am so excited the way you unfold and tie in end time Bible prophecy with current events. You have facts about who is the great harlot. You have facts about who is Babylon. You kind of connect the dots of things that we know the ingredients of, but you put together. As a matter of fact even before we share anything, I’ve got to ask you this question. I know no one knows the day or the hour that the Messiah is going to return, so I’m not stupid enough to ask you that question, but based on the information that you have in these DVDs, could everything occur in your lifetime?

Joel:  Personally, I absolutely believe that if I should live long enough that absolutely, the Lord will return in my lifetime. I do believe that He’s at the door, and I believe that we need to be about the work of the Lord as a result.

Sid:  Now you have spent over a year in the Middle East in Egypt, Jordan, and Israel. You must have had a fit when President Bush kept referring to Islam as a peace-loving religion.

Joel:  Yeah as the great religion and the religion of peace, I carry a very hard message.

Sid:  Our time is up. Trust me, if you like end time prophecy, you will love these four sessions on two DVDs called “Understanding the Times” for a donation of thirty dollars.

SID:  Hello Sid Roth your investigative reporter here with Doug Jones and are you ready have you got that switch of faith turned on even now?  But the question is posed Doug; it’s one thing to preach it, it’s another thing to teach it, but it is more important to live it. Question: have you ever been sick?

DOUG:  Sure.

SID:  And have you practiced what you are preaching and seen results?

DOUG:  Yes sir, very much so. We are people who are belief governed we are to live by what we believe. And that doesn’t mean we don’t go to doctors we need to make that clear, and that does not mean that we do not corporate with the medical science, with the medical field that we do not in many times take the operation. That does not mean anything about that at all.  No time does the Bible ever say that taking medication or going to doctors or cooperating with the doctors is a sign of doubt and in belief. And so in many cases it is going to be medical science and your faith working together that creates the changes in our lives. And I run into a lot of people that think that going to doctors taking medicines, just shows a lack of faith. It is not a sign of lack in faith. The Bible says that if you have the power in your hand to do good and you hold it well then that is wrong. And so if we have the power to cooperate with the doctors then cooperate with the doctors, but in the meantime keep the switch of faith turned on.

SID:  Now you also said that there was a third ingredient and that is rather than making it a formula, yielding to the Holy Spirit in each specific instance.

DOUG:  Yes,

SID:  What do you mean by that?

DOUG:  We need to be led by the Spirit of God, the Spirit of God can guide you through passages that what will I call, “tweak” your beliefs; causes your beliefs to be more fined tuned.  Many times the Spirit of God will direct you; maybe through a teaching or maybe through a tape or maybe through a pastor that can bring you to the point to where you need to be. The Spirit of God, the Bible says in John 14 and John 16, will guide you and lead you into all truth. He will teach you all things, so we need to be sensitive to the Spirit of God.

SID:  Speaking being sensitive to the Spirit of God, I tell you right now that the Spirit of God is increasing your faith to believe, there is a healing anointing that is going to pour out of your television, get ready get in place, Doug pray.

DOUG:  Father in the name of Jesus, we just thank you father, that you have supplied healing on us through the death burial resurrection father through your son and through his crucifixion the healing power of God was made available to man kind. Because you knew that we were going to need healing long before we ever knew that sickness could be acquired. And so father we thank you that in Jesus name as we pray that the healing power of God is being administered to everybody, to every single individual that needs healing we thank you father…

SID:  Doug, I just feel that I have to interrupt you right now and I just want you to take your hand and put it on your body because he is going to because the Bible says that those that believe in the name of Jesus will lay hands on the sick and they will recover. Will, will, will!  Go ahead continue.

DOUG:  Yes and so in father Jesus name we just thank you that your healing power is administered now and we command every body to be healed from the top of  their head to the soles of  their feet, the healing power of God be administered to your body. And so because we believe that we received when we prayed, father we thank you  for your goodness, we thank you father that it is working mightily within each body and father from this point on we believe that we received we believe that we are recovering now in the name of Jesus. And father we thank you for those things giving you the glory and giving you the praise because each day will be a better day. Each day father will be a pain free day, and father we thank you that in Jesus name that your power is at work within our bodies in the name of Jesus amen.

SID:  And for those that did not have the instant manifestation, tell them what to do between now and the manifestation occurs look in the camera and tell them.

DOUG:  Believing that we are receiving when we pray, Mark 11 verse 24, with the spirit of Thanksgiving, father thank you that your power is at work within my body, every time that you think of it, it maybe when you take that medicine out of the cabinet you know take your daily dose, it maybe when you take the shot, it maybe when you walk into the doctors office every time you think of it say with your mouth let your words be heard. Paul said I believed and therefore I have spoken.  We also believe and therefore speak.  It is time to get to start speaking what we are believing.  We believe that we receive the power of God is working mightily and father we believe were we have conquered the whole fancier confession until you are satisfied with the fruit produced.

SID:  You know of the things that Doug and I are so excited about that yes God’s laws are true God’s words are true, but you can’t approach it legalistically you have to approach it in the Spirit and yield to the Spirit of God. And that is why I have to yield to the Spirit of God right now and tell you that there are people who have hearing problems ringing in the ears any type of hearing difficulty you are being healed right now. There are people with horrible horrific neck and back problems if you will bend over move your head you will see, Doug one of the most exciting miracles that you have see in healing school tell me about it.

DOUG:  I suppose probably the most exciting one was a lady, this one was through a word of knowledge a lady had a tumor on her back about the size of an egg, and through a word of knowledge that was called out and she was healed instantly.

SID:  Now did anyone see this happen?

DOUG:  Some ladies took her back and  found that it was gone, absolutely completely gone, and so that was a tremendous blessing, tremendous miracle, but that is once again the gift of healings, we have had many people that believed that they have received held fast of  their confession of faith and healed of cancer many of them. And so the issue is once again you hold fast with the word of God, you operate within the word of God, and results will occur it’s when we start getting so taken up with our problems, that we become distracted with our problems that we become a hearer of the word and not a doer. I will never forget I was teaching a healing school one day and I had drawn a mountain on the chalkboard and I was taking with Mark 11:23, speak into your mountain. And the lord said to me he said there are people in this room that are so taken so captivated by  their mountain, they forgot what I told them to do about  their mountain.

SID:  How about you, is that you? You are so captivated by your symptoms, well let me tell you something a Greek scholar recently said something to me that was so exciting, were the word of God says if you believe you will receive, the word receive in Greek actually means something stronger it means take. If you believe then you should do what I told you at the top of the show, reach your hand into the visibly realm and take what is rightfully yours, what our messiah died for why for only one reason he loves you he calls you special he calls you a man a woman with destiny, with purpose see you have been called to the kingdom for such a time as this. And he not only wants you to walk in divine health he wants you to lay hands on the sick and have them walk in divine health why? Because a miracle demands the fact that God had shown up and demands the confrontation of will I continue to be a sinner, and live with the devil, or will I repent of my sin and say I am linking with you Jesus the choice is yours, choose this day with whom you will serve. Serve the living God.

SID:  Hello Sid Roth your investigative reporter here with Doug Jones, and I will tell you what if you put a string on me I am going to fly. The presence of God is strong on this set right now that I absolutely believe that all things are possible to those that believe. Doug, you are talking about keys that are so important but you told me a story when I interviewed you on the radio; that you know sometimes oatmeal would stick to your ribs.

DOUG:  Yes,

SID:  This has stuck with me and I know that you were very close with Doctor Kenneth Hagin who is now in heaven. And he tells a story actually it was never published it was in an unpublished manuscript that you had read that meant so much to me, please tell us that.

DOUG:  He talks about a little, a little child that was brought to him in a prayer line both feet were clubbed feet, both feet were deformed. And the child was brought into the prayer line and so Brother Hagin has been praying for the sick and actually had a blind woman that had been blind for three years, actually be healed through that prayer line. And so after that prayer line was over with Brother Hagin took that little child and actually took those clubbed feet actually put him in his hands, and laid hands upon those clubbed feet and prayed. And went ahead and prayed the prayer of faith, and believed that they received, and what happened was he opened up his hands and both feet are still the same, both feet are clubbed feet he went ahead and laid his hands upon those feet one more time, praying and looked up and told the couple, I am telling you I have a stronger anointing right now to minister to these clubbed feet then I did with the blind woman who was healed out there in front ago.

SID:  And yet the clubbed feet are the same.

DOUG:  And yet the clubbed feet are the same. That healing power was administered to this child’s body that healing power was administered I know it I felt it go out of my hands. That healing power actually went out of my hands into these child’s clubbed feet. And he said these words to him, keep the switch of faith turned on, every time you think of it say the healing power of God was ministered Thursday night to our child’s feet. And it is in there working mightily.

SID:  But what do most people do, they say oh the clubbed feet are still there, I guess it didn’t work; I got to find another healing line.

DOUG:  That is exactly right, but Brother Hagin said keep the switch of faith turned on, it’s the first time that I can find were he uses that phrase.  And he defines it, and the definition of the switch of faith is the belief that the power has been ministered and that it is working mightily.  And for years Brother Hagin has used that phrase “Keep the switch of faith turned on.” “Keep the switch of faith turned on.”  He would use it after praying for the sick. Well what is the switch of faith, he said it every time you think of it say the healing power of God has been ministered to these feet and is in there working mightily. So they went home and they did just what Brother Hagin told them to do and about a week later they had brought the child back to the church, brother Hagin had already gone his way, gone to another meeting but they had brought the child back to the church were brother Hagin had prayed for them showed the child, both feet were completely normal. They were healed, simply because they kept the switch of faith turned on.

SID:  How easily they could of stopped.

DOUG:  Yes sir,

SID:  And literally aborted the seed that healed the anointing that is what we are praying for, that healing anointing to come inside of us.

DOUG:  And it is anointing, it is the healing power of God. That is what it is and it is ministered every time someone lays hands upon you. Because obedience always releases the power any time, any time you have a promise…

SID:  Does it matter whether it is a Doug Jones that lays hands on you, or John Q. Christian next door?

DOUG:  No it does not. That is my point any time anyone acts upon the word of God anytime anyone acts upon a…

SID:  It doesn’t matter if I take my hand and put it on myself.

DOUG:  It does not matter; it does not matter. You are acting on a promise, and the moment you act on a promise the healing power is always released there is power contained with every promise there is life contained in every promise his word is full of power and life and every time you act on a promise, then the power or the life within the promise is released within your life. That is the reason why when Peter acted on the word come and stepped outside that boat he is acting on a promise and the moment he stepped out he is releasing the power with the word come. And it has such power that it can defy the laws of nature and all of a sudden Peter steps out onto that water and he’s got solid out from underneath his foot; simply because he acted on the word of God. Any time you act on the word of God, power is always released

SID:  Okay I am going to have you in a moment pray the prayer of faith for the sick. Let’s assume that some people instantly have miracles and they will.

DOUG:  And that is fine.

SID:  And let’s assume that some people don’t; what should they say…

DOUG:  Keep the switch of faith turned on.

SID:  Again how?

DOUG:  I believe that the power is in my body and I believe it is working mightily. See the Bible says Jesus says that we are to believe to receive.

SID:  Every time you have a doubt you should be saying that out loud or?

DOUG:  Yes sir, out loud yes sir. And that is a huge issue we cannot win the battle of the mind by being silent we must use our mouth and it is time we start using our mouth when it comes to those doubts. Nope the Bible says they shall lay hands upon the sick and they shall recover. I believe that I recovered, I believe that I received, I believe that the healing power of God is in my body is working mightily and we are saying that until we are satisfied with the fruit produced. And it doesn’t matter whether it takes two weeks, two days, two hours, it does not matter.

SID:  What about two years?

DOUG:  You stay true to your beliefs.

SID:  Okay have I got some news for you, Doug is going to pray this supernatural prayer of faith in just a moment when we come back.  But I’ve got a free bee for you, it is called the word of knowledge, and you see the presence of God is running through your body right now and I tell you that every bone every arthritic condition every pain in your body whether it is your neck or your back or your hip or your little toes or your fingers if you will move right now it is a free bee it’s yours be healed in Yeshua that’s Hebrew for Jesus name, we will be right back in a moment and you start turning that switch of faith on right now get ready it’s coming, it’s coming.

SID:  Hello Sid Roth your investigative reporter here with Doug Jones and again I am so excited. The reason is, is that I got a hold of two of his teaching books and I had heard about Doug for many years. But he has a supernatural gift of teaching that allows people to reach into the invisible realm and literally take, literally appropriate the healing that God has for them.  Doug you taught at Rhema Bible College which you do right now at the school.  You have led the healing room, you actually became very close to Kenneth Hagin; at one point you even lived with him, what is in your opinion the number one reason people are not healed today?  People that know that God heals, but it’s the grandmother that might say, “God works in mysterious ways that we don’t understand.”

DOUG:  Yeah, it is really a lack of knowledge.  The Bible says very plainly that we will be destroyed from lack of knowledge. In Isaiah chapter 5:13 he talks about the fact that we are going to captivity because we have no knowledge; and there is a particular type of knowledge that we need to have in order to obtain healing.  You know as well as I do Sid that people are going to receive healing through two avenues one is going to be the gifts of the spirits; manifestation of the workings of miracles, the gifts of healings, through words of knowledge.

SID:  But unfortunately that doesn’t happen to everyone.

DOUG:  No I agree, because that is as the Holy Ghost wills.

SID:  I wish that the Holy Spirit would will for every single person, I mean that is the way that I would like it to be. But the truth is I go to meetings and some people have spectacular miracles and the others go home and say what is wrong with me God?

DOUG:  But, well see, the other avenue through which we receive healing is through faith. It’s through being taught the word of God, obtain certain beliefs and allowing those beliefs to govern their lives until they are satisfied with the fruit produced.  The main belief that people must have; most people have been prayed for; most people have desired prayer because they desire to be healed because they have been prayed for. But they have never stepped into that realm of believing that they received when they prayed. Jesus said in Mark 11:24 what things you desire when you pray and believe that you receive them and you shall have them.

SID:  But I have heard a lot of people say that ‘I believed that I have received it’ and then if you listen to them long enough, 24 hours later they say ‘I think I received it.’  And they’re not saying that, but the fact it’s almost like a mental thing rather than a spiritual thing.

DOUG:  Very true, because if we believe we receive when we pray; first of all we wouldn’t be stepping into every prayer line offered to us.  Because when I received the last time, the time last Sunday night when I was prayed for, I believed that the power of God was administered into my body and it is in there working mightily.  And from that point on there’s nothing to do but to say thank you Father.  Thank you that the power is in my body working mightily.  Most people do not believe that they have received the healing power of God when it was ministered to them.  They don’t believe that they received it.

SID:  I don’t know whether you have seen this, but I have seen people prayed for, I have prayed for people, and they walk away.   I see what they are doing; they are examining their body and their symptoms are still there.   And what goes through their mind, I am not healed.

DOUG:  Brother Hagin would always say this “The instant I lay my hands upon you the healing power of God will be administered to your body, but what you do with it after that is up to you.” And so what happens is, is so many people today are so taken up with, what I am going to get is my manifestation when that man lays hands on me man my manifestation is going to be given to me and that is going to be the end of it. And when they don’t get their manifestation, because in essence what God gives the sick when hands are laid upon them, is the healing power of God. Sid the Bible says they should lay hands…

SID:  That is very interesting what you just said. You just said something that is so important, what they receive is the healing power of God they think they are receiving

DOUG:   Their manifestation.

SID:  Yes, oh big difference.

DOUG:  Big difference and so the woman with the issue of blood she came and pressed down toward the hem of his garment, touched his hem.  Jesus known himself the virtue thrown out of him; that word virtue is power in Mark 5.  And so that means then she came to get her healing, but what she received was healing power. The healing power of God has to be administered first before it will ever receive the manifestation.  But what has happened is, is that we have become so focused on the manifestation that we have chosen not to believe that we have received when we prayed. The very fact that he tells you to believe that you receive when you pray, indicates to me that you are not going to receive something that is tangible to the touch. Perceptible by sight it is going to be something that is ministered inwardly unperceptive to the touch. That healing power of God is administered to the root of that problem.

SID:  So what you are saying to me whether they are feeling anything or not it is happening.

DOUG:  Yes sir that is exactly what I am saying.

SID:  And we get faked out because we don’t feel something.

DOUG:  Yes sir, and then what happens is we neglect what we did receive; we received the healing power of God the moment the hands are laid upon us. But because we have got our eyes focused on “well, where’s my manifestation?” then we neglect the power of God that is in us; and therefore it just sits there laying dormant with our lives.  It’s possible for things to be given to us by the laying of the hands, to lay in us dormant inactive. Remember over there in 1 Timothy chapter 4 Paul tells Timothy neglect not the gift that is in thee, neglect not the gift that is in thee. You can neglect gifts that are in thee which was given to thee by prophecy with the laying under the hands of the presbytery.  But you meditate upon these things and give yourself wholly unto them; that your property may appear unto all. Now I know that verse is not talking about healing power but it is talking about something that is received through the laying of hands. It was a spiritual gift, and if you can neglect a spiritual gift, well then you can neglect the healing power of God that was administered to you through the laying of hands. It can just lay in there dormant, and so the issue for us is, is to first of all make people aware of the fact that the healing power of God is administered to their bodies. Sid we’re having people fall out under the power of God; laying prostrate on the floor because they walk away, boy the power was sure are having people fall out under the power of God laying prostate on the there tonight. We are having people feel the power of God go out of  their hands we are actually having people today feel the power of God going into them, well it felt like electricity, well it just felt like warm honey just kind of flowing all over me. And so we are falling out by this, we are having hands lay upon us that actually felt it go out of their hands and into the sick. We are actually having people feel the power of God go into their bodies and yet they are walking away and saying I didn’t get anything.

SID:  So something is missing we are about ready to understand this.  That is what I believe light bulbs are going on right now, and I believe that before this show is over you are going to receive the miracle you have been asking God for, it is yours, don’t go away.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Ken and Jeanne Harrington. And, you know, in the times we’re living in people are losing jobs or they’re being downgraded or demoted. And God works with you on understanding Kingdom Principles through job situations. Tell me about the Randy story.

KEN: I had been working for this young fellow that was not as experienced as I was, but he ended up being my foreman. And our job was running down. I got a call to go work at a mine and to bring somebody with me. So I decided I’m gonna bring Randy along. And we drove out together, filled out the application form. I handed my in. He handed his in. And then the secretary, in the process of just assigning our ID numbers, gave him a lower number, which didn’t mean anything to me, except he now had seniority over me, even though I was the one that had brought him along. Well something happened at the job that they needed to try and deal with a few things and it was gonna result in some layoffs, and so Randy got laid off. But because he had seniority he bumped me, even though I had gotten him the job.

SID: But that’s not fair.

KEN: Well it’s not fair, no. And I was upset. But in the process we decided we’d start a company. Well that company has produced in the last 20 years between three and four million dollars. So even though it was not something good that happened, God turned it to good. And this is–

SID: But how did you react when that occurred?

KEN: Well I was upset originally. But then I started to see the hand of God in it. And I actually ended up going back to work for them. They rehired me in about four months. Then we got laid off again, the two of us, this time. They eliminated our job. And I felt actually to take Randy with me on another job where he was working for me.

SID: How could you do that? He just took your place.

KEN: Because God told me to. So I had to say there was something more he wanted to work out. Well what happened was he hadn’t changed and he stabbed me in the back again, and I lost my standing in this particular company. But what God was actually doing for me was He was allowing Randy to work out something in me, which was my independence and my doing it my way where I actually had to start to trust God that even when all these bad things go wrong, he’s in control. Don’t worry about it. And the end was that I was able to actually witness to him at one time, and because he knew had hurt so many times he was able to listen and respond.

SID: Did he receive the Lord?

KEN: Yes he did. I don’t say he walked out really great, but he actually did make a confession.

SID: But the difference is that you flowed with the spirit of God rather than being a hard head by using Kingdom Principles.

KEN: Part of the Kingdom Principle is you don’t have to protect yourself. That’s God’s job.

SID: Okay. Jeanne, you prayed for at least five people with tumors that they’ve disappeared. Tell me about that.

JEANNE: One year, five people were diagnosed with brain tumors in our church body, and I would pray for them. And as soon as I laid hands I believe that they were healed, totally healed, there was no brain tumor. One of them is Lyle S.. And he sent in just recently an email, and he had been diagnosed with a brain tumor, and he had it on the pituitary gland, and he was scheduled for an operation. They could see it. And I met him in the hallway and I said, “I don’t believe you have tumor.” And he said, “But the doctor said.” I said, “I don’t believe you have a tumor.” And I prayed for him. And there was no tumor when he went back. And so I believe sometimes God sets us up. Will we believe Him or will we believe the doctor, or what we see? And we’ve got to move into this higher realm. We’ve got to move into the supernatural and start believing God’s word. And I believe there’s people out there that have been diagnosed with diseases, and God wants to heal you. He wants to touch you. He wants to set you free from that disease.

KEN: The interesting thing about what Jeanne is saying, she’s not saying they weren’t sick. She’s not denying that. But Jesus said in the scriptures, “By his stripes you were healed.” So the healing is the truth. The sickness is the facts. But the facts aren’t always the truth. If I can give you an example, this table, is it real? Well yes, of course it’s real. But what was it a hundred years ago?

SID: A tree.

KEN: Yeah. And what’s it gonna be in another hundred years?

SID: Soil.

KEN: Right. It will turn into something else. So even though at this slice of time it is really a table, it is something that’s in transition. The Bible says that the eternal things never change. So we have a sickness that is a fact at this slice of time. We have a healing, which is the truth. What we need to do is to be able to transition the sickness into the truth. Jesus says, “I am the truth.” He didn’t ever change it. So if he says you’re healed, it doesn’t matter what the facts say, that you can, if you can shift your way of thinking to agreeing with him, he can bring that truth to overcome the facts.

JEANNE: And I see somebody out there right now. You’ve been flipping through the stations and you think you’re here by accident. You are here by the destiny of God. This is your appointed time. You’ve been having problems with your left knee and right now the Holy Spirit is touching you and healing it. There’s someone out there that’s really depressed. You feel like is it ever gonna change for me? I can’t take my life any more. It will change. God loves you. He loves you so much He sent His son for you. And He is going to cause change to come into your life. And God says, “I am for you, not against you. I have plans for your life.” And there’s someone that’s had severe headaches. You’ve had migraines. Right now they’re going. Right now they’re going in Jesus’ name.

SID: You know what I noticed? I’m an observer of the Holy Spirit. The moment you started praying there was a tangible presence of God. And isn’t it true that if you have the tangible presence of God and the Word of God that it’s like a chemical equation? It materializes. It’s the truth. That’s what you were talking about, Ken. It’s the truth. And I’m gonna tell you the truth right now. Here is the truth. You do not need an angel to show up in front of you with a big sign saying “Danger”. All you need is the truth. And Jesus said, “I am the way, the life and the truth. No man can come to the Father except through the son.” If you will, someone’s headache has just lifted in Jesus’ name. In fact in the head, whatever you need in the head area right now, hearing ears opened, deaf spirits leave, eyesight be restored, back be restored. Here’s the truth. Tell Jesus you’re sorry for your mistakes. Believe the blood of Jesus washes them away. And then say, “Jesus, I make you my Lord. Live inside of me.” And start living in the truth. Don’t live in something that will be a hundred years from now and won’t even exist. Stick with the truth. I like that. Don’t you?

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Ken and Jeanne Harrington. And some of these principles that are Kingdom Principles, Ken, they’re hard. For instance, you said that if someone is 1% right and I’m 99% right, well I should not have to repent to them. I shouldn’t have to say I’m sorry. But a Kingdom Principle is you humble yourself. But that’s very hard to do, Ken.

KEN: The humbling is designed not to make you lower. In fact, it’s to bring you to a higher place. Jesus said that if you go into a point of law to deciding who’s right and who’s wrong, that if the accuser accuses you, what are you supposed to do? You’re supposed to agree with him. So for even for that 1%, because if I go to law and it says, no I’m 99% right, Jesus said that if the accuser gets you to the judge, he says you’ll be found guilty and you’ll be put in prison. Well why? Well the principle is, yeah, I may be 99% right here, but I am 1% wrong, and he gets to get me. The law is made up of ten links. There’s only one law, ten links. All I have to do if I’m wrong in one, I’m wrong in them all. So I will come under really a judgment in that sense. What I need to do is I need to agree, ask God to forgive me, apply the forgiveness and say, yes, I’m wrong, but it doesn’t matter. But if I try to justify myself now I’m guilty.

SID: You know what it does though? It gives you such freedom, such power when you can walk in that type of supernatural humility. Ken and Jeanne, you were counseling a couple. Give me a real life illustration.

JEANNE: Well we had a couple of couples. All of a sudden their marriages blew up. And so we were trying to help them. And one day we had two families in our house that we were babysitting and feeding, and trying to manage all the damage that–

KEN: Counseling in two different rooms at the same time.

JEANNE: All the damage the enemy had done and we allowed one of the wives to really express herself to her husband the anger she felt. And I told her to take a pillow and just give him a whack. And the husband took great offense to it and said that we were very poor counselors. And the other one had situations with adultery, another family. And we started getting attacked on our counseling methods and what was going on, and we couldn’t justify ourselves. And I had to repent for what I did do.

KEN: We couldn’t justify because we couldn’t expose what we were dealing with.

JEANNE: And then in the end everything settled out and the people became very good friends of ours, and a strong connection and bond, and their families, their marriages are all in tact. So it’s worthwhile.

SID: So because you followed the Kingdom Principle, their marriage was in tact, your friendship was in tact. I like these Kingdom Principles.

KEN: They work.

SID: Now angel. Tell me about the angel.

JEANNE: I was driving home through the mountains and through the forest in the park in northern Alberta. And on the way I was listening to Bible tapes, looked out my window and saw two large beings. They looked like hitchhikers, but they were sort of translucent. There was something really different, and they had a great big sign that said “Danger”. But immediately the tape I was listening to quoted Psalm 103:20 that says, “The angels are there to perform the Word of God.” So I thought “Danger”, I’d better invite them in. I invited them in and I just felt this presence come into the car. And this big tankard truck, double trailer, brand new shiny, came and passed me on the road. Now there were very few cars on the road, very remote place. And we were driving along and he turned off to Highway 22 where I was supposed to turn off. And all of a sudden I felt like let’s stop at the rest area and take the little dog for a walk. And then well let’s go into the next town and gas up even though we didn’t need gas. Let’s have a soda. And then we came back to go on Highway 22, and I’m remembering “Danger”. I haven’t seen any danger. So I start quoting Psalm 39, “That God would protect and the pit, the net of destruction that enemies plant for us, it will reverse on his head.” So as I’m driving along Highway 22, we left sunshine, and all of a sudden a torrential rain started. And I’m thinking, oh the enemy’s got a plan. So I slowed down, just kept praying, praying. All of a sudden I see all of the flashing lights. The emergency trucks are there. That tankard truck tipped over across the highway and rolled. Had we been following him like we were supposed to do we would have been totally in an accident. So we could rejoice that God helped us, warned us, told us there was danger, and prevented the accident.

SID: I have to believe that God gave you that warning because He wanted to keep you alive. I have to believe He wanted to keep them alive because some of the supernatural Kingdom Principles you’re going to learn. Be right back after this word.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guests, Ken and Jeanne Harrington, Jeanne, you had, was it a vision or a dream of a tsunami coming to the United States of America and Canada, but it wasn’t a tsunami in the natural. It was a tsunami in the supernatural. Explain, Jeanne.

JEANNE: It was a dream about a big wave of God that’s going to move across Canada and the United States, and many people are gonna come to know God in a powerful way. I was, all of a sudden plopped into the ocean. And all of a sudden I’m on a surfboard, and I look behind me, and first of all, I’m afraid because I don’t surf, and this huge wave comes up and it picks me up and it takes me right to the shore. Then it picks me up again, plops on the wave again, but people are mocking and laughing, and I’m turned backwards, but I spin around the right way and go right to the end. And it happens again and again. And I really feel that it’s about God’s move that’s coming, a powerful move that we’re not gonna make mistakes on. It doesn’t matter what people think about us. But there’s gonna be a move that’s gonna come in and release the glory of God for the salvation of many.

SID: And you know what? The thing that I love about this vision that Jeanne had is that it wasn’t the superstar. Explain.

JEANNE: No. I’m just an ordinary person and my husband was in the dream, and another fellow, and we’re just ordinary people. But God’s gonna use everyone, everyone in the end. He wants to have all of us reach out to our neighbors, to our loved ones to tell about God.

SID: Now Ken, tell me about the supernatural visitation you had where for 45 minutes you were downloaded the information of your book, “Shift: Moving from the Natural to the Supernatural”.

KEN: I was working in a construction camp in northern Alberta and about 10:00 at night I was just ready to go to bed, and suddenly the Holy Spirit just started to bring words up into my mind, and I got up real quick, and I started to write it down. And I realized as I was writing I was actually getting chapters of a book. And I get the chapter. I get the outline. I got everything I needed in 45 minutes. I was writing as fast as I could just to keep up. And I had never written a book before. I wasn’t ready to be published. I didn’t understand what was going on, but I knew I had to finish this off. So once the download was done then I just flashed it out and put it to work.

SID: I believe the revelation that you had is so important. I have to tell you, I read a lot of books. I interview a lot of people. But I believe because of the revelation that Jeanne had of the tsunami coming and that God wants to use everyone in the supernatural is why you got this revelation. What is the passion of this revelation? What is God trying to show people?

KEN: He wants us to shift the way we think. We’ve been so used to functioning in the natural realm, and our reasoning has been molded by the events in our life. But what God wants to do is, Sid, there’s another realm, there’s another way of thinking, and the emphasis of the book is to shift that thinking so that we actually step into see things the way God sees things, and that will allow us then to do the things that God does.

SID: Well you see, in the 1940s there was a great move of God’s spirit in these tent revivalists with great miracles were all over. But most of them failed. They had the miracles, but they hadn’t developed the character. They hadn’t developed the servanthood. And I don’t hear enough teaching about this any more. This is what I’m getting. I have to tell you, I’m getting under such conviction when I start to feel angry over something I have to check myself out. What is the source of that anger? Is it that little pimple that I’m looking at or is there something deeper? Like for instance, the time that you got upset with Jeanne because she wanted you to, she’s what 5-foot, what?

JEANNE: One or two.

SID: Five-foot-one or two, and you can’t reach the top shelf.

JEANNE: No.

SID: So what’s wrong with asking your husband to reach the top shelf?

KEN: What was wrong was I had a wrong thinking in my brain. We end up forming judgments that really lock us into a thinking pattern. It’s like a rut in the road, and you drop a tire in the rut, and you actually can’t get out of that rut if it’s deep enough. Well our thought patterns are like that, too. We develop ruts in neural pathways, however you want to say it. And I had developed one over the years that came to fruit in my wife. It actually started with my mother. And when I found myself reacting and I’m mumbling under my voice, you know, kind of, “Leave me alone” to her when she asked me to reach something, I thought, man, there’s something wrong there. And so we started to pray and say, “God, show us what was wrong.” And He brought me back to my mother at the same age that Jeanne was. I saw myself, I was about 15 or 16, and I watched my father sit down after coming home after a long day in the fields, working on the farm, and she was trying to be relational, get him to interact with him, and he was sort of an isolated type of gentleman, and was watching TV, kind of half falling asleep, and she’d call him, “Bob, come up and get this.” And he’d get up and go do it. Then he’d sit down and five minutes later, “Bob, come and get this.” And I remember the thought coming into my head, “Leave him alone. You’re gonna kill him.” Well it’s crazy, but most of our judgments actually are kind of goofy.

SID: And that’s what I found out, that they really, you see here’s the thing. It’s these judgments are not in line with the spiritual truth book, the Bible. And when they’re not in line they’re crazy. At most, judgments are crazy.

KEN: Yeah. And so this judgment I had, well men are suppose to be the stronger one. The women are the weaker vessel, the Bible says. But women outlive us ten years. Well what happens? They get us to do all the work and it kills us. And that judgment then manifested itself when Jeanne reached my mom’s age and when I made it, it only took a matter of a day or two of once we identified it, praying it, and all that went away.

SID: Jeanne, what difference did it make to you when he changed?

JEANNE: It made an immediate difference because he then started opening the car doors, taking my coat, reaching for things as soon as he broke it. But he had to repent of his sin.

SID: That’s what’s so amazing. You are a prototype of someone that has had experience after experience of changing your thinking. And why is the thinking important to be changed? Because you need a new lion skin to contain the glory of the tsunami wave of God’s spirit. Now God showed you your own heart. Here you are a believer in the Messiah and you love God with all of your heart, but what did He show you about your heart?

JEANNE: My heart’s deceitfully wicked. At one time God started to reveal my heart to me and I cried for two weeks straight. And I taught Sunday school. I was active in church. I love God with all my heart. And one day I cried for six hours straight when I saw how deceitfully wicked my heart was.

SID: Ken, when she was crying, could you understand it when she said, “My heart is deceitful”?

KEN: No, not so much at that time. But she reminded me that your turn will come, and it did.

SID: I’m gonna tell you something. God is preparing us and I’m so excited. He’s preparing us for visitations of angels. We’ll talk about an angel. Don’t go away. A real angel.