Sid: I’m going to tell you something there’s such a move of God’s Spirit to be poured out on planet earth. I read to you this prophecy by the great Missionary from China, Hudson Taylor from China. A proven Missionary; a proven Prophet and he said in the last days the great spiritual awakening; the greatest move of God’s Spirit would start in Russia in the center of Russia. I have Eric Carlson on the phone, and Rabbi Carlson is a Rabbi of a One New Man Congregation. Eric tell us about your congregation just briefly where it’s located and it’s name.
Eric: This is Congregation Zion’s Sake in Newport News in Virginia. And we are a One New Man Congregation that meets for Shabbat Service Jew and Gentile that come together as one in Messiah.
Sid: And you told me that lately the Holy Spirit has been showing up in such a spectacular fashion that sometimes you can’t even get to your message.
Eric: That’s absolutely right and that’s really why we come together on Shabbat services or any services because we want God to be there, and we want God to minister. As we come together and worship the Biblical truth. We follow what God teaches in His word and we just begin to worship and praise Him, the God of Israel, on the Shabbat the supernatural begins to happen and the Holy Spirit will fall. And people just come to the altar; people get saved and they get ministered to by the Holy Spirit. People say that’s the best word I’ve ever spoken; I don’t speak anything the Holy Spirit ministers.
Sid: But what we saw in Russia in Siberia we were at the center of Russia and that’s what Hudson Taylor said. “In the center of Russia…” we didn’t know it at the time but we in Krasnoyarsk, Siberia which is the exact physical center of Russia. That’s where Hudson Taylor said that this great revival was going to start from. And we had an outreach to Jewish people. And as I teach in my latest book that Charisma has published that’s just come out that’s called “The Race to Save the World.” When you go to the Jew first it will open up a supernatural door of evangelism to all people. And Eric, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this, I have never seen anything like it. Here we had a simple outreach to reach Jewish people and the whole city of Krasnoyarsk knew about it. I mean you turn on news channels and what did you see?
Eric: Well the news channels had the press conferences; they were broadcasting from the sports stadium. It was a number 1 news item in Krasnoyarsk for the week that we were there.
Sid: And I want to talk about the last night of the Jewish outreach festival that we had. It was the highest attendance and there was anointing a presence of God that came upon me. I pray Mishpochah it will come upon you even as I’m speaking right now. I call it the Siberian anointing. Because I believe there is a rumbling going on that there will be 100′s of 1000′s of Jewish people coming to the Lord just from that festival, just from my speaking in churches about the One New Man. I absolutely believe this. But the presence of God came so strong on me just before I spoke at that outreach that I could not stand without shaking. I mean some people say “Well why are you shaking?” I can’t help it when the presence of God comes on you you can’t stand still. And so I went out I spoke God started flowing in words of knowledge. Large numbers of Jewish people were saved and by the way it’s not your typical outreach there was Rabbi’s and anti-missionaries from different parts of Russia and the United States. And members of the Orthodox Lubavitcher Synagogues that were there passing out fliers that say don’t come in these are horrible people they’re a cult. And just… but these people came in anyway but there was one man in particular that was 93 years young. He came up to me afterwards a Jewish man and he said that he was a high level KGB agent. And he was telling me all these marvelous that he had accomplished in his life but with all of that at 93 years of age this Jewish man along with most of the people that were in that audience said payers to come to know the Messiah to make Yeshua, that’s Hebrew for Jesus, make Yeshua Messiah and Lord of their life. It was almost like a net… Eric I have to tell you the way I felt, I felt like if I hadn’t done a good job but I’d been studying for 30 years to understand the facts why Yeshua is the King of the Jews the Messiah of the whole world. But if I had just done almost nothing, and that’s what I believe this anointing is going to do. If you can just share the simple gospel and anyone can do this a net went out and just pulled these people in. And so when it was over I was still shaking, this…Eric you were there, you took pictures, you sensed the anointing. Give me some of your feedback.
Eric: Awe it was fantastic, and the people the listeners really don’t know is that these cities in Siberia and even Hudson Taylor didn’t know this when he made the prophecy because it was almost 50 – 60 years after he prophesied this that then Soviet Union the communist sent all of the Jewish people into these cities. So were in the city where the population is somewhere between 50 to 70,000 Jews alone. So these people come in droves to this. And that last night of the meeting was out of this world. The anointing and the Spirit that was there and God was there. As you lead the prayer and the people stood thousands, literally thousands of people stood to receive their Messiah. People were healed, people were restored. And there was Israeli’s there Sid, and you know there was Jewish mafia gangsters that were there. The One New Man this new anointing cuts through everything; it doesn’t matter the background where they are from, who they were before this. But this fresh anointing cuts through all of that thousands received their Messiah that day.
Sid: And you know I got reports I wasn’t outside were these anti-missionaries were trying to stop the Jewish people from coming in. And the Jewish people were saying “What you don’t want me to think for myself. You don’t want me to go in and look at the facts,” and they were getting angry at the Rabbis.
Eric: That was right they were getting angry and upset and the anti-missionaries were passing out papers don’t do this and don’t do that. And we saw most of the people take that paper and crumple it up right before the anti-missionaries and throw it on the ground. They didn’t even want to read that stuff.
Sid: Eric you and I have been pioneering now for awhile on the One New Man and I see it’s really going to take off in Russia. And as a matter of fact the head of the Pentecostal church for all of Russia invited me to come back in the month of December to give a talk on the One New Man to all of the Bishops of all of the Pentecostal Churches throughout Russia. I mean I believe, and you know we’ve started this evangelistic Russian broadcast it’s on secular radio in Israel and Germany. And as the money comes in we’re going to go into every city in the former Soviet Union. And then we’re printing my book of 10 Jewish Testimonies “They Thought for Themselves” in Russian. We have over a half a million of these in print and we’re giving them away free to any Jewish person that writes in and says they will read this book. What I want to do now is work with all of these churches, and I’ll work with any church that wants to do this. I mean this is harvest time and according to Amos who says that once the family of David the Jewish people come into know the Lord they’ll be this great Gentile revival. And it describes the revival there’s never been a revival like it, it’s going to be such a big harvest that we will be forced to work together. The charismatic’s and the non-charismatic’s, I mean all of the things that divide there will be so much fruit on the ground that there will be a new harvest started and we won’t be able to even collect all of the fruit of the first harvest. This is what it says read it in the last chapter of the book of Amos because Amos saw the same revival that Hudson Taylor saw. So I believe that Russia it will be easier for them to change because Christianity modern this modern move of God’s Spirit has only been there about 10 or 11 years where they’ve had freedom. But revival hasn’t hit yet but they are willing when I explain the One New Man but it’s so simple but the problem is Eric as you know a lot of churches they have tithers and they don’t want to shift their vision. They don’t want to upset things and God will use them and God bless them. And God’s going to use the Messianic Jewish Synagogues God bless them. But if you’re in a Messianic Synagogue, if you’re in a Gentile church and you believe that there’s something more and you read the book of Acts and you read the Bible and you say “I don’t see this going on my church.” Well it doesn’t matter if you’re Charismatic or not there’s some missing ingredients and the church has picked up so much tradition that it’s literally difficult for God to show up. But in your congregation Eric which is a One New Man Congregation. In Siberia which I just left I believe there’s going to be so many One New Man there already are a number in Russia that have started. You even went to Africa on behalf of Messianic Vision and how many One New Man Congregations did you find in Africia?
Eric: Huh, we’ll in Africa now there is over 55 One New Man Congregations and it’s growing as we speak even now.
Sid: Well I believe that there are some pastors that are crying out to God and they’re saying “God there’s got to more I’m so hungry, is this all there is?” There’s members of churches crying out.
Sid: You know what I was thinking just as I started this show was that many people before they know the Messiah; before they were born from above they have gifting from God. For instance a night club singer was really called by God to be a Psalmist but they just haven’t had the revelation yet. A world class salesman was really called to be an evangelist but they just haven’t been born again yet. And I find that many people that operate in the supernatural they had a passion for the supernatural before they knew the Messiah and the only door they saw open was the New Age; that’s what happened to me. And that’s what happened to my guest Patricia King. Now in 1976 Patricia King was just lost in the world in the New Age and she was having her son was about ready to be born and you prayed to God because there were real serious problems. You said “God if You’re real save me and my son.” What was going on with you and your son?
Patricia: That’s right Sid I was in a very serious condition actually; I went into convulsions just prior to delivering him. I wasn’t in labor yet and I went into convulsions and in the midst of it I had the devil actually come to me in a vision and he spoke to me. I saw him very clearly; I heard his voice audibly and he said “If you will give to me the child that is in your womb I will work out all your life’s problems; I will take care of you; I will make sure that everything works out well.” And then he faded out of the vision; I don’t know how I knew that he was the devil I just knew. Well, after he finished Jesus came into the vision and it was just very faint; when Jesus came in it was just kind of an impression of Jesus with His arms being held out. And in an inner audible voice inner quiet voice rather; just like a whisper He said “Come to me.” And I cried out within because I wasn’t able to talk or anything I just said “Jesus if You are for real; if You rescue my child and I tonight.” Because we were still convulsing and we were in a very dangerous state. I said “If you give us life I will give You the rest of my life.” I didn’t know what that meant; I hadn’t had the gospel preached to me as far as knowing how to receive Jesus as my personal Savior. But I came out of convulsions at that moment; they took me down to the operating room; delivered my son. When he was born I saw this brilliant white light around him and I knew, that I knew, that I knew that Jesus had delivered us. That night I determined to give my life to Jesus even though I didn’t know how to do that yet.
Sid: And as a matter of fact because you didn’t know you continued in the New Age; but then you went to a Bible study run by an Anglican minister and people starting sharing how their lives were changed and testimonies and a light bulb went on inside of you; what happened?
Patricia: That’s right I heard them share how Jesus forgave them of their sin and gave them a brand new life. I didn’t need to be told I was a sinner; I knew I was I just didn’t know how not to be. So I said went I got home I went down on my knees on my living room floor and I said “Jesus, I don’t know how to talk to You or pray properly or anything like that; but those people up the street said that You came into their heart and forgave them of all of their sin and gave them a new life; would You do that for me?”And Sid I didn’t know for sure that He would do it because I heard their testimonies and they shared some of the things that they’d done before they’d got saved and I thought “Sure, that’s awesome that God could forgive that but my sin seems so much bigger than theirs and I thought I wonder if He could forgive the likes of me?” So I wasn’t sure; but the moment I asked Him to come in He didn’t hesitate. And Sid it was like this liquid love came into my heart; it was just like flowed in and I actually felt my sins being removed. I actually felt the guilt; the shame; the weight of the sin; the distress of it absolutely leave me in just a moment of time. And I wept and wept and wept because I had been introduced to God; I had been introduced to love Himself. And my whole being filled up with love; and I knew that the one that knew me the most; He knew everything that I’d been doing in the back closet He knew all my sin and yet He loved me so perfectly. And was willing to remove that sin and give me a brand new life.
Sid: And your ministry today is known for love; I mean that marks your ministry today, and also known for gifts of the Spirit. Now with me I had a similar experience in that my whole room was; it was a bedroom was just filled with liquid love. I didn’t even know how to describe what it was; but it was the most wonderful thing in the world. So I do have a degree of a paradigm for what happened to you. But you had training early on how the Holy Spirit operates and gifts of the Spirit. Tell me the first time that you saw an angel.
Patricia: Well, the first time that I saw an angel with open eye vision; with full open eye vision would have been probably around I think 1990 or something maybe. I had senses of angels before that; but this angel was enormous and it was while I was praying in my home. I looked up from my prayer and on the second level of our home, because we had an open loft on the second floor, there was an angel with the top of his head going through the roof. So we had at least 18 feet in our home between the two floors plus whatever went off the top of the ceiling. So I would say that the angel was about 20 feet tall; and it just you know filled all of this space and it actually frightened me when I saw it because I wasn’t expecting it. And I screamed and when I did it went out of my vision and I couldn’t I couldn’t seem to get it back after that. But I never forget seeing that angel; and I asked the Lord “Lord I don’t know what that angel was doing here like what is that, I’ve never seen anything like that. And I wished I hadn’t screamed or I wish I hadn’t gotten afraid because it just left my vision.” And He said “It is there to protect you; it is there to watch over you in this next season.” And we had been just stepping into a season of intense warfare, but the entire time we walked through that that area of warfare I remembered I don’t need to fear God sent that angel and I kept seeing the impression of that angel in my mind.
Sid: And you also have dreams and visions; tell me about the time you were in Israel and you had a vision of what’s about ready to happen.
Patricia: Well Sid that was in the fall August – September of 2013 I was in Israel and there was conflict as there is often times there was conflict severe conflict. We were close to the border of Syria where the conflict was and on the news there was broadcasters were saying “This couldbe the start of a third world war” and there was tumult amongst the nations and there was an uproar going on. And then I was getting emails from many Christians who were saying “Oh, I think that this is going to be the end of the end, and think that there is going to be a 3rd World war” and they were coming into agreement with it. Well, as I was in Israel the Lord said very, very clearly “This is not the time.” We know that there will be… we know that there’s wars and rumors of wars of course but this is not the time for that or to break out and you must stop it because as My people you have the power in the earth I’ve given you authority to bind and to loose, but if the enemy brings forth this war before it’s time it will set everything back out of its right timing. And it will take generations and generations to come into the place where I want to bring this great harvest; this great revival that’s coming. And so it was a very clear word from the Lord to take dominion in the Spirit and to dissipate the wave of expectation for a tremendous disaster through war to take place.
Sid: You also saw God’s heart to bless nations; tell me about that.
Patricia: Yeah, I believe Sid that we are on the precipice of one of the greatest moves of the Spirit in all of church history. And in 1995 in February of 1995 I had a vision actually I went into a trance and saw a number of visions. But one of them was this globe of the world where I saw every nation and God’s hand was cupped over Israel. And His other hand swept all of the way around the world and touched every nation. There was like an ingathering and there was gifts being deposited and there was the glory of God being deposited in nations by the hand of God. And when the sweeping of that move was complete on all the other nations then He took His hand off of Israel because Israel was the only nation who hadn’t got the sweeping hand of God in that way. When He took His hand off of Israel all the other nations spontaneously brought their gifts, their blessing and everything to the nation of Israel and to the people of Israel. It was an amazing thing I just started weeping when I saw the vision and I realized that God has appointed a time for the nations to be blessed in Him but that they will bring all the blessings they will bring the blessings to Israel.
Sid: And you know what’s so neat is Patricia is that the way that God has ordained it the reason they bring those great blessings to Israel is so that they’ll even have greater blessings coming back to them; that’s the way God orchestrated.
Sid: Well my guest is Jonathan Bernis; you’re familiar with him from “Jewish Voice With Jonathan Bernis.” Jonathan and I go back many many years. I’m reminded of a time that we had a meeting of leaders of Jewish believers in the Messiah. At this meeting Jonathan said “I feel like God is directing me to go to the former Soviet Union to evangelize.” And you laid out a little bit of a plan because you hadn’t done it; you didn’t know what to expect, and it was really shot down but I loved the idea. Jonathan and I went to the former Soviet Union several times and you… how did you even come up with the concept to go there and do a special event of Jewish music and dance for the Jewish Community? I know it came from God but how did it happen?
Jonathan: Sid, just reflecting back on the whole experience it was a process that began with a need that I identified which was the plight of Soviet Jews. Then the conviction in my heart the conviction that the Lord dropped in my heart that He wanted me to be involved in this somehow. Out of obedience and faith I went to Russia back in 1990 just out of… I walked in the light that I had and that many many Jewish people that were very open of the gospel which led to more trips back and forth. And then the Lord spoke to me very clearly on an airplane in 1992 and said “Go back to my people and proclaim the good news.” And I was reading Matthew 24:14 where Yeshua was saying that “Before end will come the gospel has to go to every ethnos.” In Greek the word ethnos which is translated nation is people group. And so understanding that the gospels to the Jew first I simply went back in faith and this plan unfolded. It’s all about faith Sid; I have to tell you the Bible’s so clear “Without faith it’s impossible to please God.” The fight of every believer is the fight of faith. And it really was the call of God and the response in faith that brought this all about.
Sid: Well, I want to take you back to the first night there were advertisements. I was with you, and there were some Messianic Jewish music groups. That first night we didn’t know what to expect; so we ran ads. And it’s never been done before it’s a foreign country you need translators. The auditorium was packed, and then when you gave the altar call explain that moment. Because I know what happened inside of me I was there, but you explain that moment of what happened inside of you.
Jonathan: Well, you’re right none of us knew what to expect; I had these dreams of these nightmares of an empty hall and this was a 4,000 seat hall. I have all my friends there including you and Joyce. And I’m thinking that this is going to be a disaster and I’m going to be embarrassed. The enemy will do that, but to our amazement the hall was packed we had to turn people away. And when the time came in the music for me to share I just went out with a microphone and with a spot light. And I told people how the Lord had changed my life. I shared some scriptures; very simple scriptures about the Messiah standing at the door of our heart and knocking and whosoever will call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved. And then I gave a simple invitation for people that wanted to respond to come forward. And Sid to my shock almost the whole auditorium got out of their chairs and came down the altars; just pouring down.
Sid: But I saw something even beyond that Jonathan in addition to what’s you’re saying. I saw Jewish people running to get saved; I’ve never seen that before in my life! (Laughing)
Jonathan: I haven’t either Sid and most of the people in that hall were Jewish; there were very few people that weren’t Jewish. And they did they came running down the aisle with their arms outstretched tears on their faces. And I did everything I could to fight back the tears. Because even now as I talk about it I’m just gripped by that picture, I’ve never seen anything like it before that. And of course the years that followed we saw football stadiums filled mostly with Jewish people open to the gospel and responding to the gospel.Sid we’re living in remarkable days.
Sid: But you know what I want I want to see because I believe the greatest miracles; the greatest evangelism the world has ever see is about ready to happen. So I want those that are listening to be mentored by what you did and I did it right along with you because we’ve been friends for all these years. What you did what word would you say are the major keys that allowed you to accomplish and be used by God like He used you?
Jonathan: Well, Sid I believe that everything that we do is lasting is done by faith. Again, we’re to fight the good fight of faith; “Without faith it’s impossible to please Him.” It’s all about walking in faith and when we walk in faith we’re able to hear the voice of God. And I believe the scripture teaches two ways that we can build up faith. We can walk in faith and actually grow in faith. The first one is praying in other tongues. I love in the Book of Jude where we have this warning against those that have been sensual which means to become sense controlled. Controlled by the senses; they have been overtaken by materialism; by the cares of this world; they’ve been deceived. Because the mind; the renewed Sid are against the things of God. And the exhortation in verse 17 “But you dear friends you don’t have to be this way; you can rise above the senses.” Verse 20 and 21 “You dear friends build yourself up in your most holy faith.” How? By praying in the Holy Spirit. And I believe that’s talking about other tongues. And one thing that we’ve done together over the years Sid is times of fasting and prayer where we spend hours praying in other languages and it builds up our faith; it releases things.
Sid: You know both of us as new believer’s in the Messiah we came in… there was the Charismatic Movement was going, the Full Gospel Business Men, churches would not say go to the back room and we’ll pray for you to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in a supernatural language. It hadn’t been demoted to the backroom or out of the church. You and I would pray days in tongues and at that time I have to tell you Jonathan I knew that it was God and I knew that it was important but I didn’t know how important it was. Because when we pray in supernatural languages we are first of all faith; we’re prophesying our future, and we’re prophesying our future in perfect prayers with no unbelief and the devil can’t even understand what we’re saying. I am convinced that when you and I were praying in tongues all those years ago I was prophesying the ministry It’s Supernatural; you were prophesying the amazing things you’ve done over the years and we didn’t even have a clue. (Laughing)
Jonathan: Not only that Sid but through praying in other tongues and bypassing my mind and building my spirit. Which is how we hear the voice of God by the way not with our mind; I moved into new dimensions of intercession of travail, of supplication. I had these experiences Sid as you remember where I would be brought down to the ground in travail. I was giving birth to things that I didn’t even understand and I believe that was the preparation for the outpouring of the former Soviet Union that we both…
Sid: Others that we’re praying in tongues with us they would start travailing and it’s almost like a woman giving birth. That’s what we were both doing we were giving birth. But then the second key is meditating on God’s Word. And that’s why I’m so excited to be releasing your brand new book “Confessing the Hebrew Scriptures, The Lord is Peace.” And these are scriptures that you have personally selected on having peace. And as you explained in yesterday’s broadcast the word peace is Shalom but it means completeness in all the blessings, in all the favor; in all the promises of God. And you have it in Hebrew and you listen to a native born Israeli speak the promises in Hebrew. Then you have it transliterated so anyone can speak Hebrew. And they can speak it out in the promises in the original Hebrew. There’s something supernatural about the spoken word; I mean the whole earth was created with the words of the Living God. But it’s being spoken in Hebrew. It’s changing the chemistry of your body and then it’s in English and you have a CD so not only can they read it phonetically as this transliteration method that Jewish Community developed so that we could read Hebrew. But now instantly people can read it in Hebrew. And people are taking this book and this powerful CD; they’re going to sleep with it at night, they’re doing it during the day. They’re making it a wonderful gift. And the book is so beautiful it would make a beautiful book to just put on the coffee table… Jonathan tell me we did this once before on Hebrew Scriptures on healing. Tell me what feedback you got from the people that got a hold of this kit.
Jonathan: Sid do I have time to read a quick letter.
Sid: Go for it.
Jonathan: I got it – we had just released Adonai or Jehovah Shalom it’s brand new; but the healing one has been out for a couple of years on scriptures that confess or proclaim the Lord is Our Healer and Health. I got a beautiful letter from a Pastor that says “He had a woman in their congregation who was dying with leukemia. I ordered the set for her and the doctors gave her 10 to 12 days to live. I gave her the CD and asked her to listen to it continually with our prayers, our faith in the scriptures in Hebrew God healed her. The same doctors came in and told her that she does not have any leukemia cells at all. Plus her body is producing the blood again and she’s not dying but will live and declare the works of the Lord.”
Sid: Now I’ve only dreamt about what my guest has heard; my guest is the last living link to Azusa Street Revival. Those that aren’t familiar with the Azusa Street Revival this happened in California; the most improbable situation a warehouse; a one eyed black preacher; before there was integration of races, and the shekinah glory showed up in this warehouse and almost everyone that walked in walked out healed! My guest Tommy Welchel met some of the elderly survivors; remember now this was 100 years ago. He met some of these survivors and they told him firsthand what they saw; how they prayed; what the results were. So he really is the last living link. Now Tommy you were told that your destiny was to make this known. What occurred over 100 years ago? Who told you this?
Tommy: She’s getting pretty old now her name is Jean Darnell. She said “That one day I would put these stories in print.” And that was in 1966; I’d been listening to the stories for 6 years but I couldn’t tell them for 40 years.
Tommy: Well, there is a little story behind that I had a visitation from the Lord in my hiding place.
Sid: What was your hiding place?
Tommy: It was a little secret place I made for myself up at the attic at Pisgah. If I didn’t want anybody to bother me I would go up there and hide.
Sid: Alright Pisgah was a place where a lot of people that were involved in the revival…
Tommy: Quite a few.
Sid: It was almost like a retirement home.
Tommy: Yes it was; it was called the Pisgah Home.
Sid: And that was in California.
Tommy: Right next to Pasadena.
Tommy: And there a man by the name of David du Plessi toldme to go up if I wanted another encounter with Jesus. The first one I had He got close to me and I fainted.
Tommy: I got overcome and I passed out.
Sid: So you made up your mind that you’re not going to faint this time or the next time.
Tommy: Right, so I got up there and I’m praying and all of a sudden my alarm goes off and I turn it off and the little room in there is light as day. Well, there were no lights up there; at that time there were no electricity up in the loft; there is now. But I thought the light; I knew who that was. Well, I looked to the right and here’s this beautiful robe; I can’t describe to you how beautiful that robe was; snow white and it glowed. And I knew who it was; I leaped up and threw my arms around His waist and stuck my face into His stomach. And all of a sudden I feel this hand stroking the back of my head. He said my name one time He said “Tommy.” And then He said “Be patient and be obedient over and over” And then all of a sudden He’s gone and it’s daylight out there.
Sid: Now what did He want you to be patient for that He impressed it so much that He said “Over and over?”
Tommy: Well, when I had leftPisgah I would want to so badly to tell some of these stories and every time I would start I’d hear that voice. “Tommy I said to be patient and obedient.” Well, I’d freeze and I couldn’t tell them.
Sid: When did He release you to tell these stories?
Tommy: In 2006.
Sid: Any idea why 2006 versus; 1995 or 1990?
Tommy: It was the 100th year of Azusa Street.
Sid: So what did that mean?
Tommy: In 40 years after I had quite listening to the stories. I guess it was His timing.
Sid: I understand that in 1909 there was a series of 3 prophesies about something that would happen 100 years from Azusa Street Revival. Tell me about those prophesies.
Tommy: Well, the first was Mary Woodworth-Etter. She’s the one that had the revival in 1913 down in Echo Park, there in Holly Park. She prophesied that soon before the second coming of the Lord there would be a great revival. A huge revival that would have in place. And then William Seymour just before 1910 got up in the altar and made a prophesy that in about 100 years there would be another revival like unto Azusa Street return with miracles and the shekinah glory. And to this there would be no end until the coming of the Lord. But it wouldn’t be in one place or with one person; it would even be in some homes with families and they would be healing the sick and performing supernatural miracles.
Sid: Now there were three people that prophesied; who else?
Tommy: Charles Parham who had the big revival in 1901 in Topeka.
Sid: In Topeka; right.
Tommy: He was in New York City and they tell me almost simultaneously he was making that same prophesy in New York City and this was 1909. They didn’t have the communications they have now so they didn’t together and make this up.
Sid: So approximately 100 years from the Azusa Street Revival there would be another revival. Now would the miracles be greater than what we saw at Azusa Street?
Tommy: They said greater.
Sid: Okay, they would be greater; they would be just before the appearing of the Lord and they would continue, whereas in Azusa Street they stopped after about 3 ½ years.
Sid: Now let me take you back to the beginning of Azusa Street and remember Tommy was just a teenager. He met the elderly survivors that had firsthand seen what occurred in Azusa Street and we’re going to see greater. But someone that intrigues me a lot is this William Seymour. He was the most unlikely person a one eyed black preacher.
Tommy: Very much.
Sid: Now at that time there was segregation of churches.
Sid: What did he do about it being black; he wanted white people in there to see this great move of God’s Spirit; what did he do?
Tommy: It was the first integrated church in America that I know of. Seymour got kind of fanatical. If he come down from his apartment to the service and there were 20 or more of the same color sitting in one place he would separate them. He would not tolerate any kind of segregation he wanted them all integrated.
Sid: And was it true that when he started this revival he would come down and put a box; what was it cardboard?
Tommy: No, wood.
Sid: A wood box.
Tommy: It’s boxes they ship food in.
Sid: Okay and he put it over his head; why did he do that?
Tommy: He told signs is an obedience to God; and I believe it was just humble obedience.
Sid: And then he wouldn’t take, listen to this, he would not take this wooden box off of his head until he knew what God wanted to do.
Tommy: Until God spoke to him.
Sid: Tell me I’m so curious about this William Seymour; tell me some of the things they told you about him that they saw firsthand.
Tommy: Well, Seymour there’s sometimes they said he would come down and now it wasn’t all the time but sometimes; he looked at a whole area that were laying there in cots that were brought from the hospitals. And he looked up and he says “Every one of you if you want to be healed you can in Jesus Name your healed; get up and take up your cots you’re healed.” Every one of them; he said there was about 3 dozen; got up rolled up their cots; did not go back to the hospital.
Sid: Do you know much about the education of this William Seymour?
Tommy: Seymour was not highly educated; he was the son of slaves; he didn’t get much of an education. Back then in the south they didn’t educate the blacks very well. You know they were prejudice they thought blacks couldn’t learn anyhow. That was a lie.
Sid: So God picked a one eyed black man to lead the greatest revival in the history of America. God will use whoever is available. Well, I’ll tell you what we’re out of time today… Now on tomorrow’s broadcast Tommy I want you to tell me how this great man of God William Seymour died from a broken heart not physically broken but emotionally broken and what he did that I believe stopped the greatest revival that ever hit America so we don’t do it again.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone John and Anne Gimenez, many of you are familiar with them. Anne was written up in Charisma Magazine she’s Senior Pastor of Rock Church in Virginia Beach. And she is the only woman in America Charisma said pasturing a church of the size of theirs which is about 5000 people. They’ve been pasturing for about 35 years. John Gimenez is Bishop of the Rock Ministerial Fellowship some 600 churches worldwide. And John how old are you?
John: I will be 73 in November.
Sid: Do you know any Hebrew? Are you a “bissel” in Yiddish? Are you a “bissel mishuga?” Do you know what I’m talking about?
Sid: That’s a little crazy. What in the world are you doing calling America to the Washington Mall to repent and fast and pray for the survival of this nation? Now I know you did 3 or 4 of these Like in 1980 you had a million Christians on the mall and in 1988 I think that you had 1.2 million Christians. And then in ’96 and you’ve been doing these things. Why, what do you need this for?
John: Well I wish I didn’t have to do it but it’s always been in times of emergency; just like they did as you know in the Jewish family when there was danger or when the king was approaching they’d blow the shofar. Then the people would gather and for some reason the Lord is sort of tapes us on the shoulder and said “I want you to blow the shofar of emergency.” And each time we have it’s because there’s been a very very serious situation. This being probably the most serious ever; we’ve been there 3 times before. But God has used us also overseas in fact in Berlin. Before the Berlin wall came down we were called from Germany by pastors to show them what we did here in ’80. And they, after instructions and working with them, they went and they went and they stood before the Berlin Wall. And they prayed just like we did here; and of course Reagan came after that and that wall is down. Because we believe that it wasn’t that Gorbachev bring the wall down it was more like Jesus bring the wall down, and that’s the way. That’s what happened and so when God has called us once again Sid because we’re in big big trouble.
Sid: You know speaking of trouble John I received a prophecy from a prophet from India. It seems as though God is sending people from other countries to prophecy to us. And he’s a very very accurate prophet. I want to read his Sadu Sundar Selvaraj. And let me read just a portion of this prophecy. Because you know Mishpochah that this is as serious and as critical… I mean this is literally do or die for America to continue as the great nation that it always has. But let me read this prophecy to you.
Prophetic Word by Sadu Sundar Selvaraj: So when the angel of the United States of America came and stood before me I trembled and quaked every time a saw an angel of a nation, I always tremble and quake in my heart because of the awesome anointing and authority they have. When he came and stood before me he told me an awesome judgment is going to come upon America very soon, an awesome judgment. When he spoke I felt a fear a godly fear running through my bones and my spirit. This is not a judgment that would destroy the entire nation but something quite similar to what happened with the twin towers but it can all be prevented IF rivers of intercession flow in the nation. This is the word that He told me to speak and I saw that if you will take this seriously a hug river flowing all throughout the center of your country (That’s the United States of America) if it flows a river of tears, rivers of intercession. (Just as this angel was speaking I saw this huge white river flowing from the east to the west, only that would prevent this judgment that would come). And then I saw this angel where he was positioned and where he was standing guarding over the United States of America, he was standing very near to where the Statue of Liberty is a huge gigantic angel. If you read in Revelation chapter 10 John saw this huge and mighty. One of his legs was on the earth and his other leg was on the sea and he stretched out his hand he reached to the sun. Can you imagine what a gigantic figure he must have been probably as tall as the Sears Tower or the former World Trade Center. Such a huge gigantic angel standing guard over the United States of America. My dearly beloved brother and sisters as he was speaking words he said “This is the word that you should preach.” And then I saw the heavens open and from the throne of God this word came to me; visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children and upon the children’s children onto the third and fourth generation the judgments of God. Don’t you believe any of the false prophets who preach to you after 9/11 saying it was not a judgment of God. I tell you as a non-American as a holy prophet of God what happened was a judgment from God. You know that when I first came to America on 1991 on the 4th of July, your Independence Day. I was in a conference scheduled to speak. As I was worshiping the Lord I saw the heavens open before me and the Lord Jesus Christ stood there and He told me “Now I’m going to give you a word for this nation.” Among the 3 things that He showed me they all have come to pass. But I will tell you one thing that concerns you right now. I saw the flag of America. You know I’ve never seen a people like the Americans who love their nation so much and are so patriotic about their great nation. That is good; when I traveled in your country I use to see these huge gigantic flags that fly so majestically in some parts of the country. I feel very proud as if I myself was an American. The same American flag I saw in the heavens but instead of flying in the right direction it was flying in the reverse direction. And the Lord Jesus Christ was standing at the flag and knocking on the flag, and as He was knocking I saw the words “Last call.” Flashing, last call was flashing and flashing and then the word of the Lord came onto me. “This nation, the flag that you see flying in the reverse direction is the heart of this nation that has turned away from righteousness and is walking towards unrighteousness. She has turned her back towards Me, yet I am still calling her. Last call, last call, last call.” And for the 3 months that I was in the US during that period every church and every conference that I went to I was commanded to share this vision and ask the American people to pray for your country. But you know I was very aghast to notice that the Americans, especially American Christians take very lightly such words. Because you think that the non-Christian Americans deserve God’s judgment. You really don’t love your country. You think you love your country but deep down in your heart you don’t really love your country, you have such a self righteous attitude thinking that the non-Christians deserve the judgment of God and you deserve heaven. Don’t you think that when the twin towers came down many Christians also perished. When the economy of New York City came to a standstill how many Christians also suffered economic losses. Thirty thousand Indians working in New York City were sent back home, overnight 30,000 Indians lost their jobs. They came back home among them many Christians; they wrote to me for prayer. When the judgment of God comes remember even the righteous may have to suffer. When God’s judgments came upon Israel and she was taken captive to Babylon righteous Daniel was among them, he was a captive. When Israel was under the captivity of another nations righteous Jeremiah was there, right Nehemiah was there. Righteous saints also go into the captivity. Don’t you forget that, don’t forget that. You have been duped by all the false teachers and false prophets diluting you and deceiving you that you will always be protected. As a result, you’re suffering from spiritual lethargy. Hearing only that which you want to hear and switching off what you don’t want to hear. You know of you it is written in the Bible, those that have itching ears only wanting to hear pleasant words. My dear brothers and sisters the judgments of God are real, the countdown has begun.
Sid: John Gimmenez who is my guest, what do you think about the prophecy that I just read?
John: I believe it’s right on, God has spoken not only to our brother in India but we’re getting words from around different parts of the nation and overseas. We have people coming from India, people coming from Europe, people coming from South America. They’re all coming here to pray for us. Cause they realize that not just a storm or not just tidal waves or whatever. This is judgment from God! That’s a whole lot different than when you’re fighting man. When God says “That’s it,” brother there’s nowhere that you can hide. And we have been blessed, America has been blessed. But now God is saying “Either you repent, either you do what I say according to My word and you do it My way or you will suffer the consequences and that means the church also.”
Sid: You know I’m reading my notes on some of the things that you’ve talked about America for Jesus. And you said “One of the areas of judgment is our legal system.” What do you mean by that?
John: Well, right now we’re experiencing the spirit of Haman in this land. The same spirit in the book of Esther. Haman targeted God’s people; right now we’re having laws past that are targeting the Bible, targeting the church. There’s laws being prepared what they call “Hate speech in the name of tolerance or intolerance.” But really it’s aimed at the church so that we cannot speak as oracles of the Lord the Word of the Lord that condemns and judge, judge certain activities human activities. God said “I will not tolerate these things and we are passing the spirit of Haman.” In our court system is passing these laws in order to destroy the very present and the Name of God in this land.
Sid: John, I’m going to have you hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast. Mishpochah literally you can hear the shofar blast. It’s October 22nd all day. It’s going to be a day of prayer, fasting and repentance. It’s called America for Jesus; it’s going to be in Washington, DC at the National Mall… I’m going to be there. Why? Because I love the freedoms we have I love the freedom to be able to preach the gospel worldwide and I don’t want to see this stop in Jesus Name.
Sid: My guest I’m speaking to him by telephone at his home in Montreal, Canada is Gennady and his wife Svetlana. Gennady and Svetlana are Russian Jewish believers in the Messiah that are red hot for the Messiah. And they are the hosts of the Russian version evangelistic show that’s on secular radio. Right now we’re on two stations, one is in Israel and the other is in Germany that has so many Russian Jews that have recently immigrated there. And these Jews do not speak Hebrew or German that well so they want to listen to secular Russian radio and who do they get? They get the Gennady and Svetlana at the microphone. And Gennady in Russian what is the name of your show?
Gennady: Геннадий и Светлана у микрофона
Sid: Which means in English?
Gennady & Svetlana: Gennady and Svetlana at the microphone.
Sid: I like the sound of that. Gennady again, who would have thought that in Israel God’s about ready to open doors for you and Svetlana to be on Russian radio throughout all of the former Soviet Union. We want to get you on Russian radio in Canada. How many Russian Jews are there say in Montreal where you live?
Gennady: Only in Montreal it is only about 60,000 or more.
Sid: Do you hear that? 60,000 and there just like Gennady and Svetlana used to be. And basically you knew nothing about Judaism and the Russian Jews know the basic biblical festivals. For instance, most of them when you were living in Russia you when Rosh Hashanah was going to begin like it begins this evening you didn’t even have a clue what it was. Now we found out on yesterday’s broadcast both Gennady and Svetlana were raised in the former Soviet Union, they were atheist. They wanted to come to Canada, Gennady’s big dream was to be a big rock and roll start but he couldn’t even get a job. They actually came to Canada and they were very frustrated, but a couple befriended them and started teaching the gospel. New more about Judaism than they knew; Gennady said he would have been bored silly with that but the thing that got his attention was miracles, he saw miracles happen so he stayed with it. And one night you decided to open up the Bible and ask God if He was real, tell me about that.
Gennady: Well that was about 12:00 in the afternoon and I heard about Yeshua already because these people they were witnessing to us for about 8 months but I knew that God was knocking into my heart. I kind of came honestly to this question and I opened the Bible and I laid it on my chest, nobody was home and I said God “If you are real because I was an atheist really.” And Yeshua, Jesus my Messiah show me. I was a real Jew that was looking for a sign (Laughing.) And all of a sudden supernaturally somebody closed my eyes, it was 12:00 in the afternoon and I found myself in a vision in a long dark room.
Sid: Excuse me, had you ever seen something like this before?
Gennady: Never I would have freak out if I would have seen something, anything like this. If I would hear from somebody that they saw that I would say “It’s impossible.” You know atheism that’s what it is. It doesn’t believe in supernatural; atheism is a totally different approach. That’s where I was I could not believe in supernatural; I did not believe in God. But when I asked God just… I tested it I said “Lord, perhaps these people are right, show me if You’re real and Yeshua Jesus as My Messiah.” Somebody closed my eyes like fingers like that, I felt the power I couldn’t hold it.” And I found myself I see in the vision that I was in a long dark room and there was a table there and on the table there was a coffin. And all of a sudden somebody stood up and they begin to pull me there. I felt that presence of death, like with somebody in the grave and I felt that power of death pulling me in. And so I was really really scared and it was so real. And when I opened my eyes I saw myself again I was in my room and yet all of a sudden I saw another vision. That vision was with my open eyes now. On my right had side was a clear ball appeared and inside of that inside of that clear ball was a black octopus moving uncontrollably trying to break that ball and come out of it. And this picture came across my eyes from the right side to the left and disappear Sid, disappeared. I mean it was a miracles of miracles and when I came to myself I realized that God has shown me something. To me I didn’t have any question anymore if God is real, and Jesus is my Messiah. And now my second concern was, what was the message? And I ran to the phone and I called these people that were witnessing to us and God gave them the word for me. They said that the first vision, death is pulling me in already, I was about 27 years old at the time, who would think about death at 27 years old? And the second vision, after octopus in a clear ball it’s cancer, just about to develop in my lungs. The problem was I was smoking since I was 13 and by 28 I was smoking about 15 years and I knew that there was something wrong with me because I was coughing really really badly. But I couldn’t quit smoking, I tried many, many times and I couldn’t, therefore God showed me in these visions that death will take me in if I will not cry out to God. Because cancer is just about to develop in my lungs, that was supernatural. So what I’d done I just fell on my knees right away and I just accepted the Lord, I said “Lord, come into my life and help me.” And that was my acceptance.
Sid: But even though you did that Gennady all of a sudden your childhood dream was answered and someone offered you to produce an album in a recording studio and you… did you walk away from God what… you had a conflict what did you do?
Gennady: What has happened is when I feel on my knees and under my conviction I began to cry out to God. And yet in my mind I didn’t forget what I was demanding for. And yet Lord I will serve you with all, my heart and with all of my life I will serve You if You will allow me to get into the recording studio at least once in my life in Canada. And that was it. But 3 weeks later under the pressure of my family Jewish family; we had big Mishpochah living in the same city; under the pressure I gave up. I said “Lord, I’m sorry I can’t walk in this it’s too heavy, I can’t withhold the pressure. And I knew that I’m departing from a real God; it was not a test of me. And when I said “I’m sorry I can’t do this I have to go back where I was because I wouldn’t be able to live in that torment.” I left the Lord within 3 weeks but for the first 3 weeks God did not allow me to smoke. But then I came back to my smoking again. That was about March/April of 1985. But in June somebody approached me and said “I also play a bass guitar and somebody approached me and they said “Listen, we need a bass player and we are going the recording studio in September will you be willing to go with us?” And of course that was my dream, but for some strange reason I did not remember what deal I was making with God at that point. It just like the whole experience when I left the Lord it just disappeared no trace of anything. I just like came back to my old life.
Gennady: And of course we began to practice about July – August we began to practice for the record, and in September we did record a record; it took one week and my dream was kind of fulfilled there. I was there each day for 5 days while they were doing the record. We finished the record on Friday on Saturday morning Sid I was going back home in the morning returning home and I was driving a small Toyota car, 2 door, and I had the biggest car accident in my life. The car was totaled; the guy was drunk who cut my way; he made a left turn before me and I couldn’t stop. And it was heavy very heavy car accident and in my car and I was laying there right inside of my car right after the accident I didn’t come out yet. A lot of people were gathering there and they were asking if everybody is okay, yeah I was fine, I was okay but then I heard the voice of God. You know that shook me, and the voice was this, God said this way, He spoke to me this way “I have fulfilled what you have asking for but you never kept your word.”
Sid: Hmm, Gennady we’re out of time but we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: I was talking to Zona Hayes-Morrow yesterday this is Norvel Hayes daughter and she had a problem her husband wrote her a Dear John letter when he was in the military and divorced her. And a great miracle happened they got remarried and they relocating cities, but all of a sudden she’s got a chemical imbalance she’s got really low potassium and she couldn’t even walk and then they went into the Dairy Queen and he literally had to carry her in. So she got into a bed and he went out looking for… I don’t know what he’s looking for work or another apartment, and he left you alone and what did you do he left you alone and here you are a great woman of faith and you can’t even move.
Zona: After we went to Kingston we found an apartment the next day we were going to go water skiing. That morning Bobby got up and he told me that he was going to get the boat ready. I said “I’m going to stay here and he said “I want you to go with me I’ll carry you.” And I said “No, I’m going to stay here.” So everybody in the household left and I made them leave because I didn’t want anybody staying with me; and while I was laying in the bed I said “Okay devil you’re a liar I’m going to walk by the end of this day, I’m going to walk in Jesus’ Name, my arms are going to move in the Name of Jesus.” And I was still in the bed but my arms gained a little more strength and I decided to make my body work so I rolled out of bed and fell flat on the floor and it really hurt. I didn’t break any bones but I just knew that if I could get my leg around the leg of the dresser and get my foot around the leg of the bed I knew I could stretch my arms and pull myself up. So the exercise by stretching out my arm and pulling myself back up and I might have done that 30 times before my arms got some strength back in it. But I did the other arm about 30 times and I got strength back in it and kept confessing but I wasn’t stupid enough to think the potassium was going to come back in my natural body. I found a banana and I found a cardboard box of orange juice which has potassium in it. So I ate that banana and I got enough strength to feed myself the banana and drink that orange juice that was on that counter and my legs still didn’t work but the potassium enough to get into my arms and I had enough strength in my arms that I could pull myself into the kitchen. So I grabbed the handle on the bottom drawer in the kitchen and with my right hand I pulled myself up and then I used my left arm and pushed. And after that I was able to take my right arm and place it on the counter and I could try to let go and I’d fall flat on the floor; at least 6 or 7 times I fell flat on the floor over and over.
Sid: Wait a second, why didn’t you just stop, why didn’t you I mean why did you persist like that?
Zona: Because I wasn’t going to let my body rule me; I have authority over anything that’s not victory. My legs weren’t working and that wasn’t victory. And so I’m the type of person that I don’t never give up ever. I don’t count myself a failure in anything; I don’t let failure come into my vocabulary on anything that I’ve ever pursued in my whole life.
Sid: Okay, so your operating in this stubborn faith and what happens?
Zona: Well, I did that whole routine by faith like speaking the word and stubborn determination. All day long I did it; I didn’t stop and this was like I started 10:00 in the morning all day long and so by 5:00 when Bobby came in the house I was in the living-room chair and I looked at him and I said “Bobby, look.” And then I walked to him and he just broke and he began to weep. And he said “You’ll never quit will you.” And I said “Nope the devil is not going to win in my life, I will not let the devil win;” and because of taking authority over the enemies strategy Sid and using the weapon of the word and combining with natural banana and orange juice I started walking against all odds. So it was time to climb the mountain and receive all that He had for me and there’s power in talking a step of faith and not giving up. So because of taking authority over that and using the weapon of the word and building myself up even if I fell building myself up with the word and also with the naturally replenishing my body with any type of like banana, drinking orange juice.
Sid: Okay, that begs a question. When I hear these great like John G. Lake I never could picture him going to a doctor. I mean he had such great faith that he would put a disease germ that everyone that was dying from on his hand and he’d say “Doctor look at this” and he’d have a doctor look at it under a microscope and the disease germ would die. I mean but I know that you sometimes used doctors, you sometimes you even had kidney failure and you went into dialysis and with this great faith that you have, this stubborn faith, why would you resort to a doctor, why would you resort to medicine?
Zona: Well, the Bible tells us to be single minded and diligent in our walk with the Lord and that means we go forward and stay focused on our goal to fulfill out call in our life. So this is the thing the devil attacks when you are hungry, angry, lonely and tired every human on earth; nobody is exempt from the devil’s attack because we are the object of his devouring.
Sid: You know I had a friend that understood faith, and he had cancer and he was so convinced me that he was going to be healed and he died. But I noticed one key thing he got tired.
Zona: Exactly but the thing is this is the way, you know the devil told me this the last time the last bout when he tried to kill me again. He said “I’m going to kill you. You’re the closes thing I can get to Norvel Hayes.” And I said “Well, you’re not killing me, I bind you I have authority over you; you are not killing me and don’t ever appear to me again in Jesus Name go and never appear to me again.” And the thing is my dad calls it stubborn faith when you find a promise of God and you hold on to it no matter what happens. And I’m just saying Sid, the devil meant… what he meant for harm God turned around for good. You know yeah, I went on dialysis, yeah I had a transplant and yes the devil tried to just make me feel like I was worthless, make me fell like I couldn’t speak faith. Like I couldn’t …but let me tell you something the Lord spoke to me and He said it takes a lot more faith to carry someone else’s kidney and preach faith than to take a creative miracle and take advantage of it and then they abuse their today. They think that they can live and be and do exactly what they want to do… nobody you have to always be accountable for what you put in your body that is not health because we live in a physical body.
Sid: And you told me that before we went on the air that many good Christians die because God has a plan for them through medicine and they think that they don’t have faith if they don’t use the medicine.
Zona: When I went in for this last transplant I had so many well-known people call me and prophesied to me right before I went in. Well, the devil kept saying “I’m going to kill you, I’m going to kill you.” And I would say “I know what I know that I’m going to live, I’m going to live a long life because you’re trying to work so hard to kill me, you’re the father of lies. So if you say you’re are going to kill me that means I’m going to live,” and you know what it doesn’t matter it wasn’t until I was 38 that I finally sold out to God even though I was ministering. Ever since I was diligent to walk by faith the Lord said to me He said “This is not between me and you and your daddy, this is not between me and you and anybody no speaker not anybody is going to get credit for your miracle. He said “You make the right decisions you live, you make the wrong decisions you come home early.” To carry the mantle of this ministry you have to look to Me, you can’t look to anybody else because it takes more faith to go with what you’ve gone through and I’ve met you I meet every human on earth where their faith is. Just because they take a blood pressure medicine; just because they have to check their sugar 2 or 3 times a day; just because they have to be on a low salt diet that doesn’t mean that they don’t have faith. That’s where the devil sold them a bill of goods; you know people may admire consistency but if we do the same old thing every day we’re going to get the same results. So I made a decision that I was going to overcome the physical problems that I was going through and no matter what happened I set my goal on God’s best no matter what for. So I had to change and do what I have not done before.
SID: Now Patricia tells me she has learned how to create atmospheres for God to show up. Give me some examples of this.
PATRICIA: Absolutely. You know Sid, God has made us to be co-creators with Him, because He created us in His image and likeness, you know. And He’s a creator, and He’s a ruler, and so we have that anointing resident within us, especially in Jesus, who is our life, who is our creation. So as we come to learn the keys that are in the scripture, we can actually create realms and atmospheres. So for example, one time I went into a church meeting. I walked into the meeting and you could feel the atmosphere was antagonistic, actually, skeptical. There was unbelief in the room. You could just feel the atmosphere. People were sitting there with their arms crossed and I thought, oh, this is going to be an interesting night to serve the Lord. And so I asked Jesus, I said, “Okay, what do I do to break this atmosphere? What do I do to create a different atmosphere?” And he put on my heart an idea to start prophesying, giving personal prophetic words, because the Bible is full of keys on how we can create with God.
SID: Yeah, but wait a second. If they’re skeptics, they’re not going to want a woman prophesying over them. They don’t even believe in prophecy.
PATRICIA: They might not have wanted it, but that’s what they got.
SID: What happened?
PATRICIA: So anyway, I started calling out some words of knowledge and started prophesying over individuals. And you could hear the, ooo, ah, you know, because God of course is going to give an accurate word. And so all of a sudden, the oppression left, the arms started being unfolded, and people started leaning forward. It was almost like they had invisible “pick-me” signs on their foreheads, because they wanted the next word. And the atmosphere changed, and as soon as it did, then I could preach the Word, and then God could do miracles. But we had to take care of the atmosphere first. We have the power to create atmospheres and also to create realms.
SID: How about in the workplace? Give me an example.
PATRICIA: Okay. Well one gentleman came to me one time and he was struggling. He wanted to quit his job. He was actually making some fairly good money at his workplace. He worked as a mechanic. But he said, “I’m vexed in my spirit. I am vexed.” He says, “I’m a Christian that loves good values, but in my workplace, there’s crude talk, there’s dirty jokes, and there’s pornography pinups on the walls.” And he said, “I just have to quit. I have to get out of it.” And I said, “Well if you feel a leading to get out of it, then absolutely go. But what about the invitation by God to bring light into that darkness? Do you think that if you partnered with God that you could use the authority of the Word, the authority of God’s presence and change that atmosphere? Instead of being afraid of it, instead of being vexed by it, think about changing it.” And he thought, “I never thought of that.” So I gave him a few keys, you know, a few keys to work with that are out of the scriptures, and I said, “Why don’t you see these keys, give them a try and see what happens.” Well it was a couple months later, I met him at a conference actually, and he said, “Do you remember me?” I said, “Yeah, I do.” I said, “How’s it going?” He said, “It works! It works!” And he didn’t quit his job. And he said, it came gradually, but he had so much joy over even the idea of being able to change the atmosphere, that he just went for it. And he said, over time it actually changed, and the bad talk and jokes stopped, and the coarse jokes stopped. The pinups came down. And it became an atmosphere of peace because he stepped forward to do that in partnership with Jesus.
SID: What exactly, give me an idea of what he might have done.
PATRICIA: Okay. Well one of the things that I suggested him to do is to make decrees. Now it says in Job that, if we decree a thing it will be established. Now a decree is an official word given by someone in authority. There’s no greater authority than Yeshua. All authority in Heaven and in Earth has been given to him, according to Matthew 28:18. And so we can take his word. It says in the scripture that his words are spirit and they are life. So when we decree that word, it says Esther 8:8, “When you make a decree in the name of a king it shall not be revoked.” So I said, “Why don’t you in your prayer time start decreeing holiness over your workplace. Start decreeing God’s righteousness, start decreeing purity.” And so he did that. That was one of the keys that he used. Another key is praise. Just praise God, not for the filth that’s in the workplace, but for what God is going to do in the workplace. Start praising Jesus for coming in as a king of kings and the Lord of Glory and creating an atmosphere of the Glory of God. And he used a number of different keys. And one of the greatest keys, Sid, is the key of love, of course. We’ll talk about that later.
SID: No, no, right now. I want to know, no, seriously, I really want to understand this. Because I know that I’m created and you’re created to walk in the compassion of Jesus. That’s when the miracles happen, to walk in the love of Jesus. What was a turning point in your life to be known as someone that walks in the love of God?
PATRICIA: Well one of the turning points that was key for me was I came under a time in ministry of big persecution. I had always wanted to love before then. It was an aim in my life. But when I came into this persecution time there was just huge assault on international levels, actually, on just every different level you can imagine.
SID: Someone didn’t want you sharing this tonight.
PATRICIA: And one night I was, I said, “Lord, I just love these people and I don’t want to be defensive, but what do I do?” And up out of my spirit arose these words: “I declare war.” And I thought, no, I don’t want war, I want peace. And then I declared it again. I thought, what’s going on here, and it was bubbling up out my spirit. And the third time was, “I declare war. It’s a love war.” And all of a sudden I got this download and I believe I received an impartation directly from the Lord, and He started showing me how He loved the most vilest of sinners. Everyone who came against Him he loved. He never withdrew love no matter what. I thought, Lord, I want to love like you love. If I can’t love with your love, it says in First Corinthians 13, “If we don’ t have love we are nothing and prophet is nothing, and we have nothing.” And I thought, Lord, I’m going to make it my life’s aim to learn to love.
SID: How about you? Do you want to declare a love war? I want to declare a love war. That’s our secret weapon. We’ll be right back. And find out when you declare a love war you can change an entire country.
Sid: I’ve been looking forward to this interview because I have one of the generals of the faith sitting right opposite me, Norvel Hayes. I have so many questions of ask Norvel but I’m going to take you back Norvel to… I know that your mother was a great influence in your life and loved God with all of her heart and planted good seeds in you but because she was Baptist did not understand healing. And she died at a young age; how old was she?
Sid: She died at 37 of cancer and you had a brother that died of sickness.
Norvel: At 19.
Sid: It had to have a devastating effect on you as a young man to see here’s your mother serving God with all of heart and dies at a young age.
Norvel: Hmm hm.
Sid: What affect did it have?
Norvel: Well, I kept wondering you know how could God take her when she was such a good soul winner and such a blessing to the church wherever she went; whatever community we moved to and lived in. So later on in years later I started working with Kenneth Hagin and makes a statement one day to me he said “Norvel something I need to pray about” he said “I usually tell my wife I won’t be home for lunch I’ll be in the church all day praying.” He said he had something he needed to pray I started praying about it and I can’t get no answer so start praying continually about it. I’ve never prayed in my life; I’ve never prayed when I do that that I get myself to pray I’ve never prayed over 2 days full days sometime in the second day and I get the answer.
Sid: And what was that?
Norvel: Anything he wanted to know and he needed to know what to do and he goes to God in prayer. That was Brother Hagin now.
Sid: Oh, okay.
Norvel: And I thought “Well, if Brother Hagin can do that I can do it.” So I’ve always wondered why God took my mother, or she died at the age of 37 she was a strong Christian and she was a good woman. So I started praying, I prayed the first day, and the second day at the end of prayer and all of a sudden the Lord manifested Himself to me and said “This is fine, son I didn’t kill your mother with cancer I had nothing to do with it; nothing to do with it.” He said “She died because of cancer disease and I don’t attack people with disease to show them something.” I said “Well Lord she was a child of yours and she should have lived from 37 to now. It would have been 30 – 40 more years and look at all the souls she could have won because she was bold about it. But You let her die, I know that I don’t believe that you killed her Jesus but You are the healer you could have healed her couldn’t You? And all I want to know Jesus is why didn’t You heal her?” And He said “I couldn’t help her son.” And I said “Well, I don’t get that I couldn’t help her.” He said “Because she died because of the church she went to they failed to teach her about My divine healing power; if they’d have taught your mother about My divine healing power she could have believed Me and got healed, but they failed.” That’s the way it is in most all Baptist Churches.” Now there is some Spirit Filled Baptist Pastors now you run up on it once in a while and they pray for the sick but then that was like a disgrace they didn’t… you don’t want to get into that healing.
Sid: But you know something you said something to me before we started this interview most Christians even Spirit Filled Christians do not understand faith.
Norvel: That right.
Sid: And by the way since this is radio I’ll say this is it 86 years young?
Norvel: That right.
Sid: And I’m going to tell you this week he’s going to answer questions just as God answered his questions. Let me take you back to the time you had an encounter with God and got born again; tell me about that.
Norvel: I tried to give my life to the Lord as a little Baptist kid but it didn’t do much for me you know. I went to church you know and I knew God to a certain degree because I believe in staying out of sin and things like that, but me and 3 more men owned a manufacturing company in Columbus, Ohio. And at the end of the year would have an executive meeting 4 executives myself, and 3 move and we’d go over prices and things like that. And so the last day of the meeting our manufacturing company was on West Block Street Columbus, Ohio used to be the old Highway 40 and this is the days before the interstate. And that night when we got through the meeting because I lived in Indianapolis at that time. I went across the street and got into my car and began to drive home and I began to say a little prayer just a little sweet Baptist prayer what I had been taught, thanking the Lord for the day and thanking him for things. And all of a sudden it’s hard to explain like the wind or something blowing in my car and all of a sudden here come God. I mean He just engulfed me, engulfed me and I began to weep and cry for an hour and a half. He told me at the beginning He said “You are killing yourself working and you’re not doing anything for me; your killing yourself working not anything for Me.” At that time I was making 4 or 5,000 a week.
Sid: My goodness that’s good today but back then that was amazing.
Norvel: That was. The first year I worked for that company I didn’t I just about met expenses that’s all; they didn’t give an expense account or nothing they just furnished us apples that’s it. And so… but I finally I really learned I loved that business.
Sid: But God is telling you He wants you really working for Him.
Sid: And the Spirit of God came in and He tells you that and what else did He tell you?
Norvel: He tells me “You’re killing yourself working too hard and you’re not doing anything for Me. He said that He wanted me to come… and just a little bit later I never fed any poor people and I was counseling one day with a Pentecostal preacher and that had a good mission ministry. And I asked him I said “ Do you know what God wants me to do I said I pray and God comes and visits me real strong about once or twice a week He’ll just get me real strong and He’ll bless me and I said “Do you know what God wants me to do?” This Pentecostal minister he says “No Mr. Hayes I don’t know what God wants you to do but I can tell you how to find out.” And I said “You can tell me how to find out?” He said “Yes I can, I can tell anybody in the world how to find out what God wants them to do.” I said “Anybody in the world, boy you must be real smart.” He said “Not necessarily,” he said “Mr. Hayes now let me ask you a question and it will help you.” He said “Did you ever feed any poor people and I said “No.” And this is a 1st Baptist Church and they don’t look like they are poor as I know of.” And I said “No.” And he said “Have you ever fed any kids when their daddy left and they have to go to the city dump and take a stick trying to find some food to eat that day and sleep under a tree at night time?” And I said “No, I had never worked with them.” He said “Well, they are they’re there.” And I asked this Pentecostal minister you go there with them?” And he said “Oh yeah, all the time.” I said “Well can I go with you I learn pretty fast can I go with you to see how you do it?” He said “You can go anytime you want to.” So I worked with him about 7 years.
Sid: Norvel I don’t think God serious when He says that He concerned about people that are hungry and people that are starving. But we’re out of time right now we’ll be back on tomorrow’s broadcast. There are so many things I got to ask Norvel because I want him to explain faith to us, I want him to explain when he went to Heaven what he learned. I want him to explain, I want him to demonstrate how he worships.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. I can’t think of a better time for you to be red hot for the Messiah this is the Biblical festival today of Shavuot. Now what is Shavuot? Many of you know it by the name of Pentecost. As far as I’m concerned the best way to understand these biblical festivals, and a lot of people say “Oh well God’s through with them Sid. Why are you wasting your time?” Well let me tell you something if it wasn’t for the Biblical festivals we would not have such tremendous conclusive proof that Jesus is the Messiah. His whole first coming was prophesied in the Biblical festivals, and His entire return. Let me explain that to you from Leviticus the 23rd chapter. I’m going to tell you something else many people aren’t aware of this but I’m beginning to find out, I just spoke with a man that got insight that a lot of our understanding of heaven is in the Biblical festivals. By the way, these are Biblical festivals, these are Jewish festivals, but you know what God calls them something even stronger than Biblical festivals? Something even stronger than Jewish festival; He says “These are My festivals.” In the Hebrew where it says “My festivals” it could easily be translated “My appointments.” So God says “I promise to show up on this particular date.” Let me read this to you in Leviticus 23: “The Lord said to Moses ‘Speak to the Israelites and say to them these are My appointed festivals, or these are My appointments. The appointed festivals of the Lord which you are to proclaim as sacred” some translations say “convocations,” some translations say “assemblies,” but in the Hebrew it could easily be translated “rehearsals.” God says 3 things in Leviticus 23 verse 1:
These are My appointed festivals. So one they are His feasts.
They are appointments where He promises to show up.
They are rehearsals of past and future events.
Since we know this is Shavuot, or Pentecost, and by the way the rabbis tell us that it’s really the completion of Passover. Passover started 50 days earlier.
So I’m turning to the section in Leviticus chapter 23 verse 15 where it explains Shavuot, or Pentecost. Starting at the 15th verse: “From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the Lord.” This is an amazing, amazing statement here because it’s talking about what the Spirit of God is doing today, although this was written thousands of years ago. It says that we’re to bring in the 17th verse: “Two loaves of bread baked with yeast.” Now on Passover remember the whole deal was to have bread without leave, without yeast. At Shavuot we’re to have it with leaven, with yeast. If the matzaoh which had no leaven and leaven represents sin, represented Jesus and His body which was broken for us, what do the 2 pieces of bread, loaves of bread represent that have leaven, or a type of sin? I believe that represents humanity. Now why two? I believe that God is prophesying even back here in the older covenant that there is something supernatural when 2 types of humanity a Jew and a Gentile with leaven are offered up to God. Now let’s keep reading. See that’s the whole One New Man there, God says “This is an aroma pleasing to Him.” There’s something so pleasing when the Jew and Gentile become one in the Messiah.
The 20th verse: “The priest is to wave the two lambs before the Lord as a wave offering, together with the bread of the first fruits.” So what He is saying is you can see Him taking these 2 loaves and they’re long loaves of bread with leaven representing humanity; representing the Jew and the Gentile. We wave them before the Lord and the Lord says “It’s a pleasing aroma.”
The 21st verse: “On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.” Isn’t that interesting it’s supposed to be forever, and it’s supposed to be wherever you live not just in Israel.
The 22nd verse, and by the way do you know the book that is read during Shavuot it’s called the book of Ruth. As I read this next verse 22 you can find out why Ruth was selected to be read during Shavuot. “When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you.” Remember when Ruth was gleaning for some of the harvest, they left some of the grain there for her. It was also the harvest of barley which that began at Passover and ended with the harvest of wheat, and that ended Shavuot. So those are the 50 days that’s how we come up with that. Now remember I told you during Shaving, during Pentecost, we read from the book of Ruth. One of the things about a One New Man congregation is we take these biblical festivals and we say “Spirit of God breathe on them and show us things in the future Spirit of God. Show us what this means for us today for our congregation.” I believe this week God is going to speak to you. I believe as you listen God knows your name, God has every hair on your head numbered, and God’s going to speak to you. So starting in the first chapter the first verse: “In the days when the judges ruled, there was a famine in the land.” You know what, I believe that there… although there was a literal famine in the land in the days of Ruth. There is a famine in the land now because we are in between the move of the last Spirit of God and the next Spirit of God. They were living in Bethlehem of Judea, however, they then moved out of the land of Israel to the land of Moab. What does Bethlehem mean? House of bread. Now, how were they going to get bread in a famine? The word Judah, Bethlehem of Judea, means worship. I believe if they had worshipped God they didn’t have to leave the land of Israel because what happened? The further they got away from Israel the more problems they experienced to the point where the 2 sons married and then both sons and the husband died. So if they had just remained planted where they were I believe they would have had so much bread they wouldn’t have known what to do with it.
Now Naomi had 2 daughter in laws, one was Orpah the other was Ruth. Eleventh verse: “In the days when the judges ruled, there was a famine in the land.” You see the 2 sons had just died. The daughters would be able to find their own kind of people if they returned to their home. I mean why would they want to go to Israel, why would they want to tie in with the Jewish people? So Naomi was giving them really good humanistic advice, but humanistic advice is not going to work in the times that we’re living. One of the daughter in laws, Orpah, she kissed her mother in law goodbye, but Ruth clung to her mother in law. Why did Ruth cling to her mother in law? Because Ruth knew something she knew about Genesis 12:3. She may not have known Genesis 12:3 but she understood the principle that she would be blessed. She probably even understood the principle in the last days in Zechariah 8:23 says “Ten Gentiles will cling to the hem of him who is a Jew in the last days.” “Say I’ve heard that God is with you can you see what God is doing He’s orchestrating this One New Man even at this point.” Well we’re out of time.