Sid: I have a guest this week that is going get to your thinking straightened out because there is so much confusion in what is called “Word of Faith Teaching.” Let me tell you a little bit about myself. You know when Jewish people, and that’s my background I’m Jewish. When Jewish people come to the Lord if you will we’re at the mercy of the people that lead us to the Lord. If someone happens to be Catholic that leads us to the Lord we end up being Catholic. If they happen to be charismatic we end up being charismatic. If they happen to be fundamental we end up being fundamental. Well many of the people that came into my path when I became a new believer were into Word of Faith Teaching. I jumped in hook, line, and sinker, but I have a very pragmatic side and I found for me that it wasn’t working. It was working for others because I heard them say it, but for me it wasn’t working. I kind of distanced myself from it, then I had an unfortunate thing happen. A friend of mine that was very strong in the Word of Faith Teaching, strongest person I know in that arena, died of a serious illness. I was there when he died and the day before he said “I am going to live and not die and declare the works of the Lord.” He was doing everything right, he was dotting every “i”, he was crossing every “t” and that put me in a bit of a tailspin. But here’s where I’m at now, and I’ve been a believer almost 30 years in the Lord and I believe that God is a faith God. I believe that God’s promises in the Bible are from Him and are true. I believe that there is as much healing in the atonement as there is forgiveness of sin. The best thing we have is meditating on God’s word in reference to physical healing, and standing on the promises despite what is going on with the circumstances of our life and get as close to God as possible. I believe through faith and patience we will inherit the promises, but then when the teaching on prosperity came it really through me for a loop because I saw so much lust, and so much greed, and so much the opposite of what I read about in the word of God especially the words of Jesus it really turned me off. So when I found out about Gary Carpenter whose ministry is in Tulsa, Oklahoma it got me so excited. Gary tell me what happened with you in reference to Word of Faith Teaching and in particular prosperity.
Gary: Well I was pretty much like you the person that led me to the Lord brought me right into the Word of Faith movement. I listened to all of the tapes, I went to all of the camp meetings by the prominent teachers we got saved my wife and I and Spirit filled in 1980. We was living Tulsa there’s a lot of conventions here and so we would go to all of them. I was probably taught pretty much the same principles and teachings that you were. The thing of it is the men I still have a lot of respect for, and I’m not sure what they were teaching is exactly the way I heard it. The way I heard it this gospel was all about me (laughing). In other words, the focus was on me, my house, my cars, my prosperity, whether they meant it that way or not that’s the way I heard it. Everything that was taught every principle such as the 100 fold return and we could just go down the list. I’ll say it this way, I’ve been down every one of those rabbit trails. It may or may not have been working for them, you know they say it was and perhaps it was, I never could make it work for me. We floundered pretty much that was what we were, you know what we cut our teeth on when we became Christians. But I got pretty disillusioned pretty much like you say. It didn’t really change for me until 1992 and that’s the year that Sue and I began attending Pastor Dave Roberson’s church here in Tulsa called the Family Prayer Center. It’s amazing the timing of the Lord Dave was teaching a series just as we began there. In that series he was saying “You know there’s really nothing wrong with faith, without faith it’s impossible to please Him.” Hebrews 11:6 I believe says that “Without faith it’s impossible to please Him. He that comes to God must be that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.”
Sid: You know what I like to do Gary is a… what I consider a better definition than the word “Faith” is I usually insert the word “Trust.”
Sid: And when you insert the word “trust” instead of the word “faith,” I mean you have to be stupid to not believe that without trust you can’t please God.
Gary: Well that’s for sure you know. My children if I found out they didn’t trust me, if they didn’t trust my words to them that would hurt me tremendously it certainly wouldn’t please me. It pleases me when they trust daddy, and it pleases our Father when we trust Him.
Sid: So you were exposed to this teaching and what difference did it make?
Gary: Well Dave he said “There’s nothing wrong with the faith movement but now here’s the problem what is decreed by the faith man. ‘Well I’m not moved by what I see, I’m not moved by what I feel, I’m only moved by the word of God.’” Well that’s true but without the leadership of the Holy Spirit you may start down a certain path but it’s not really His direction for your life. So God starts sending all kind of warning signals and flags going “Wrong path wrong way” but you’re a faith man you’re not moved by any of that and so you just keep going. Dave says “Faith is good, God is trustworthy but we are to be led by His Spirit not by our own desire.” Then he began to teach us how we could become more in attune to voice and the leadership of the Holy Spirit, His guiding. As anyone who knows Pastor Dave Roberson very well knows he teaches very… expounds a lot on praying in the spirit, praying in other tongues. What Pastor Dave calls the mortification, edification process.
Sid: But you knew this you had been charismatic for a while, speaking in tongues for a while before you wondered into his church. What’s the difference?
Gary: Oh the difference is tremendous. I think I was like most charismatics in those days you get up in the morning you quote 2 or 3 scriptures, you spend maybe 10 or 15 minutes praying in other tongues and you’ve pretty well had your fellowship time, at least that was most of the ones that I knew. What Dave is talking about a combination of 2 things, he really taught us how to meditate, really, on the word of God leaving every scripture in context, never lifting a verse out of its setting, and he also told us and taught us to spend hours praying in other tongues giving the Holy Spirit time to communicate those mysteries like it says in 1st Corinthians 14:2 “He that speaks to God, he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men but unto God. How be it in the spirit he speaketh mysteries…” but we’re not speaking mysteries to God that He doesn’t understand. The Holy Spirit is communicating with us mysteries that we don’t understand, and a big part of that is our very calling, what is God wants us to do in the body of Christ what it is we are to accomplish for the kingdom while we are on earth. After hearing Dave’s message… now here’s something I say all the time, when I first started hearing Dave a common thing that I said “I have been burned by so many well-meaning preachers in the past. Pastor Dave I love you, I appreciate you but no matter what you say it’s not scripture until I find it (laughing).” So everything he would teach I would take every verse I would go to the Bible, I would check it out. I did that process for about 6 months. We began in June of 1992 and it was December of 1992 before I finally concluded after checking every scripture, checking it in context, I could find nothing wrong with the messages it sure sounded right. So I made a commitment, at the time I was driving long-haul trucks across the country. I said “Lord I’m stuck in the cab of this truck anyway I’m just going to turn of the CB, I’m going to turn off the radio. If I’m in the cab of this truck I’m just going to make it my prayer closet and I will be praying.”
Sid: Now what is the difference you understood praying in tongues before why all of a sudden you were motivated?
Gary: After listening to Pastor Dave I never understood that those long periods of time spent praying in other tongues, that praying in other tongues is a revelation gift. That is one method, a very effective method where the Holy Spirit Himself you know like a teacher in college. Every hour you give Him it’s like a teacher standing at the blackboard communicating and teaching your reborn human spirit everything that Christ is in you, to you, and through you. As I began that process things that I had heard I had heard other men teach these same faith principles and things out of the Bible but the way I say it now “You know it’s hard to live on another man’s faith.” I knew the principles in my head but the problem was I couldn’t make them work for me.
Sid: I’ll get a little sarcastic right now Lord forgive me, it’s easy to leave to live on another man’s faith if you’re teaching it and giving up an offering.
Sid: However, where the rubber meets the road it doesn’t work.
Gary: That was the problem, in fact it’s amazing you say that because in the 80’s, again the late 80’s before I started at Pastor Dave’s…
Sid: Hmm. Hm.
Gary: …I had learned all of those faith principles. I’m a good student, I had studied and learned. I did teach those principles (laughing) I taught them just as well as the men that I learned them from. People would ask me questions I didn’t have to go back and check any notes I knew there message. I knew it in my head but I could not make it work for me, and the big problem there is I really didn’t know the Lord very well. I knew the message but I didn’t know the Lord not in an intimate way, not in a day by day relationship way…
Sid: Out of curiosity with the hours, and you were a truck driver, so you could devote long periods of time praying in unknown tongues. Did your intimacy with God increase as a result of that?
Gary: Oh! My whole world is different, everything about our life is different. All of my… how do I say this, I have no agendas of Gary Carpenter anymore. All of those kind of aspirations during that process died. The more time you spend communicating and fellowshipping with the Holy Spirit that the more intimate relationship He develops between you and the Lord.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone if you’re not red hot by the time you listen to this week’s broadcast or read his book “Future Wave” you will be. His name is Ed Hindson he’s the assistant chancellor at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. He is the new dean of the Tim LaHaye School of Prophecy in Lynchburg. His specialty as you might guess is Bible Prophecy end-time scenarios. He’s teamed up with a futurist a high-tech man by the name of Lee Frederickson come out with a brand new book called “Future Wave” that the greatest science fiction writers of our day I don’t think they even came close to speculating what’s available today. For instance, you were talking Ed on an earlier broadcast about implanting into the brain a microchip that would allow a human to become a super human that would have wonderful benefits from the viewpoint of controlling health and helping people to live longer. To be able to get all the information in the Library of Congress just by thinking a thought and the computer chip would just be like a regular computer except you’re walking around with it you don’t even have to plug into electricity. Has anyone actually attempted to put this chip inside of a human?
Ed: Actually one of the researchers in this area did have done to himself and wanted to see how this would work, how this could be effective and eventually found himself communicating with himself so much that his own wife got jealous that she couldn’t get his attention. Like a guy who has his face in the computer all the time and doesn’t even want to come to the dinner table, the computer was in his mind.
Sid: But can you imagine if the kid doesn’t have to go up to his room to the computer he could be in the computer as he’s having dinner.
Ed: Exactly or anywhere. It’s going to affect how we communicate with each other, how we deal with each other. Right now on a much lower level for example, people will be talking on their cell phone in the middle of church. It’s not that somebody’s alarm watch went off in the middle of the sermon now, now people are talking on their cell phone in the middle of the sermon because somebody beeped in on them. You’ve got people responding with email devices right from their seat wherever they are. You’re going to end up with people having these things in their brain. Wireless communication transfer of information from one computer to another. This computer is only going to be the size of a computer chip that’s the difference. Somebody could be there listening to you preach the sermon but he could be downloading information about other things. Now the neat side of that is you could be talking about Jesus going to Jerusalem and he could download information about Jerusalem if he wanted to. He could also be downloading the Three Stooges in a movie and not paying one bit of attention to what you are saying. It’s going to be more and more of a challenge to get people’s attention in the future, keep it focused, and keep it focused on the word of God.
Sid: What do you see as the future to education?
Ed: I think the future in education is we’re going to move more and more towards what institutions call today “External Study Programs.” When schools first began to do this kind of thing whether they did it through correspondence courses, or they did it through audio tapes, then video tapes were a big thing. With Liberty we pioneered video education externally fully accredited. There were people that complained “Oh this isn’t real education” now everybody is doing this. Every school in the country has video courses. Now they’re moving to internet courses and pretty soon the information can be transferred right directly to your own brain. You won’t have to pick up and go away to school anymore school will come to you. Instantaneous language translation means you can study under a professor in university that you did not know the language. So that a Gentile for example could study at the Hebrew University under an archaeology professor like Dothan and get all of her information about excavation of Philistine sites automatically in English.
Sid: There’ll be no need to learn a foreign language.
Ed: No it’ll be gone. You’ll have… the “Global Brain” is what the educational technology people are calling it. It’s going to be information on an internet kind of a system, wireless transformation and communication of that information right directly into your own brain. There won’t even be a need for a teacher necessarily on site. The challenge with all of that is that means eventually the people who control the technology will control the mind.
Sid: But in affect today doesn’t television control this generation?
Ed: Oh yeah totally!
Sid: But you’re saying even greater.
Ed: Even greater direct control right into the mind. It’s just like you have to shut your computer off at the end of the day, you’re going to have to shut this thing or its going to be with you 24 hours a day and influencing… you can also communicate the gospel through that means which will be a tremendous opportunity and option for people.
Sid: Now where do economics fit in to the whole education mode of the future?
Ed: Well I think money drives the system ultimately. The educational institutions cannot afford to continue to expand at the rate that they’ve been expanding. Almost all of them are financially challenged and therefore this becomes a cheaper, quicker, less costly way to communicate not only the information you want taught but you don’t need as large as a faculty, you don’t need as large of a library. Students today don’t even go to the library they download everything on their computer from the library. The books are there but nobody’s checking them out. They’re getting all of it off the computer and there’s a lack of discernment in doing that. I’ve found even with students writing a paper for me in a Bible prophecy class like on the book of Daniel. They’ll download… they’ll just type in words and concepts and just pull up whatever is available on the net. Some of it is very legitimate research, some of it’s crazy stuff that some guy put on his website and they can’t discern the difference which tells me that eventually that’s how the anti-Christ will control how people think. Just like a librarian selectively starts to eliminate certain books you just start eliminating electronically certain information and pretty soon it’s not there, and if it’s not there the new generation functions as though it was never there.
Sid: Well and of course the books of the future will all be the internet.
Ed: Exactly electronic books. Lee the co-author of “Future Wave” is a specialist in this area. He says that you’re going to have electronic books and electronic newspapers. They call them e-books and an e-newspaper in which you download this information onto something that looks like paper it might even feel like paper but it’s not really paper it’s a screen. You can get today’s news on it then blank the whole thing out then download it again tomorrow and get tomorrow’s news on it. You can get one book on it eliminate that and bring in another book. If you want to print it you hit the print button and you print the thing. The way we give information and the way we get information changes dramatically in the next few years.
Sid: So someone or some group could literally control what we think, I mean we were talking earlier this week about once the chip is inside of the brain they can transmit… remember the subliminal advertising they used to have in movies were so quick you wouldn’t even see it with your eye. It would say “Buy popcorn” and more people would buy popcorn. They’ll be able to do this with the brain.
Ed: Yeah and that’s the scary part because you won’t even see it flip by for a split second. This will be in the brain for a split second and in there it’s going be more effective you’ll have more people buying popcorn so to speak than ever before. Or doing anything else, that communication could say “Obey the law. Follow the rules.” Or it could tell you to rise up in rebellion and overthrow the government.
Sid: Boy this stuff gets scary. With the positives which we brought out we’ll be able to control diabetes, control blood pressure, control all of the various diseases of society through these chips. There’s wonderful things that will occur but there’s equally negative things that’ll occur. So how should we spiritually respond?
Ed: I think we have to do 3 things:
I think as Christians we have to not run away from the technology. It’s a God given human intelligence that enables human beings to develop these things. We all appreciate the benefits of the lightbulb we don’t want to live with candles anymore. We understand the value of radio and television etcetera so we need to understand the technology can be used for good and find ways to use it most effectively.
We also have to be discerning enough to realize that one of the dangers of technology is you become so dependent on it you can’t function without it. Don’t just sit around with your face in a computer screen all day long whether it’s as big as a television set or as small as a watch. Get out and enjoy nature go fishing, have your time with your family. We can communicate with the world but we can’t communicate with each other.
I think prophetically we have to be discerning enough to realize that all of this is only moving us many many steps closer to a world that can be controlled by an individual and an individual system. Everything the Bible predicts about the coming of the anti-Christ, the control of a global economy and a world government is going to be made possible by the development of technology so we have to understand there’s a danger in all of this as well as a positive.
Sid: Ed you’ve written this book “Future Wave,” do you sense that this is not just an ordinary book, but this is a book that’ll light a fire under people?
Ed: Our hope is that it will help first of all people like me who are not into every nuance of technology. Understand what in the world is going today it blew my mind. Then for people like Lee the co-author who are really at the cutting edge of using technology to be able to raise words of caution to us as to where this is going. Many of the seminaries right now have whole new programs and bioethics and how to raise ethical and spiritual questions and issues that are going to be impacted by the development of technology especially in a biological medical field. But there’s technology going on in the educational field, in the transportation field all of these things are going to impact the way we live life today. So I think the challenge in “Future Wave” is if you don’t understand what’s been happening and what’s going to happen this book is a wonderful introduction.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is the assistant chancellor of Liberty University. I’m speaking to him at his office in Lynchburg, Virginia. His name is Ed Hindson. He’s teamed up with a futurist a high-tech man by the name of Lee Frederickson and they’ve written a book called “Future Wave.” The greatest science fiction writers of our day didn’t even come close to what’s inside this book that is actually happening today in the infancy if you will, but time is speeding up so quickly. Now Ed your specialty is end-time Bible prophecy. So based on your knowledge now of what’s going on in technology and your knowledge of the Bible, what do you think the mark will be? What do you think the anti-Christ will be? Will he be a person? Will he be a system? Will he be a robot? What is your sanctified speculation based on technology and the Bible as to what we will see when that anti-Christ is in operation?
Ed: Sid I think we have to begin with what does the Bible say about him. Then look at where is technology today and then do the speculating about what all of that could mean. I think the scripture makes it very clear that first of all the ant-Christ is a person. He’s referred to as “He” in the masculine as specific man, a man of sin, a man of lawlessness, a son of perdition etcetera. He as god sits in the temple of god claiming that he is god. So you get all of these personalized masculine descriptions. He’s a human being, he’s an individual, he gains control of the world and the world system. Economically, I think technologically, then ultimately setting up a global government and a global military system as well. But on the other you also have passages in scripture that talk about his kingdom about his system, about his government etcetera. Not only does the anti-Christ come under the judgment of Jesus Christ at His return and he’s cast into the lake of fire. You also have the whole system of anti-Christ described symbolically as Babylon that is destroyed and burned up. It’s a city, it’s a government, it’s a place it’s the materialistic intellectual headquarters of the world etcetera. So I think we have to look at both aspects of Bible prophecy. John, Jesus’ disciple way back in the 1st century said “The anti-Christ is coming you’ve heard that he’s coming, but I tell you many little anti-Christ have already come.” The spirit of anti-Christ is already at work in the world it’s that anti-God attitude, that anti-Christ attitude that motivates people to be the tool of Satan to do the work of Satan. Whether that is a false prophet who denies the teaching of the Bible, or whether that is somebody who hates the people of God like Hitler attempting to destroy the Jewish people, or whether it is some anti-Christian movement in society today that is trying to destroy the influence of Judeo-Christian morality in our society. Those attitudes are already at work because Satan is already at work. The timing has not yet come for him to move that individual into power who will then enact the program and the policies and the attitude of Satan worldwide, but the stage is certainly being set in that direction. Now when we take those Biblical descriptions and then we put them with that passage in Revelation 13 that the world worships the image of the beast. Now in the Greek New Testament it’s the word eikon, it could be a painting, or a statue or whatever but some kind of an image of the beast, but the false prophet gives life to the image of the beast. It can speak, it can talk, you can interact with it and it can even respond and hurt you and kill you if you do not worship the image of the beast. I began to see something more like a televised image, more like interactive TV that goes a step further in which you have a 3 dimensional hologramic image that could actually be projected into your living room. So that Tom Brokaw could appear to be in your living room and give you the evening news. In this case the ant-Christ, the world leader, could appear in your living room to speak to you about governmental policies or whatever.
Sid: You know I’m reminded going back to Adolf Hitler it wasn’t natural the demonic supernatural power that he had to motivate people. They would go to these meetings where there would be torches at night and just the whole thing caught the people up into the same spirit that was on Adolf Hitler. You’re saying this could happen in everyone’s living room everywhere in the world because we were talking on our earlier broadcast the languages would be simultaneously translated into the language of the people from whatever country they are from.
Ed: Yeah imagine if he could have communicated that message not just in German to the German people but he could have automatically communicated that message to every language group in the world.
Ed: The exponential development of his following would have been incredible. He would have had hundreds of millions potentially worldwide. There were even some Americans early on that thought “Well he sounds like a pretty good deal. He’s for work and hard work, and good ethics and morality. He wants everybody to behave and cooperate and he’s going to produce a more efficient, more effective economy in Germany. Maybe this would be a good thing.” They could not foresee the demonic devilish attitude that was being communicated. Now the Jewish community certainly picked up on it very quickly because they realized they were the target of a lot of that. Even then you had people as intelligent as Sigmund Freud who was Jewish who was living in Austria and saying “Ah it’s just talk they don’t really mean that. They’re really not going to do that.” Only at the last second before the onslaught was he finally persuaded to move to America. Otherwise…
Sid: Listen even our Jewish rabbis, our traditional Jewish rabbis in Poland were saying “Don’t go to Israel” or in Germany “This is a great country,” even with the handwriting on the wall they chose not to believe it because it was so horrific.
Ed: Yeah and I think there is a tendency in the same direction among American Christians today to say “Oh things aren’t that bad. We’re really not getting into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah it’s a little more than it ought to be but you know it’s recoverable.” Yet many are saying “We’ve already gone beyond the point of no return.” We have a society that is so obsessed with pleasure and self-gratification that law and decency and order, and commitment to God, and the word of God are things of the past. We’ve got a kind of feel good Christianity today that says to people “It don’t matter what you believe just kind of you know… let’s all just get together and sort of sing and dance.”
Sid: It’s a self-gratification that’s slipped right from the world into the church.
Ed: Exactly and it’s come really right from the heart of Satan himself. I have a friend who recently visited a Buddhist monastery and he was curious about it and there was a temple there and there was nobody in the temple but a monk. He went up to the monk and said “Help me to understand what you believe.” The monk said “What do you mean?” And he said “Well your theology what’s your theology?” The monk thought for a minute and he said “Well we don’t have a theology.” “Then what’s your ideology? What are you trying to accomplish?” And he said “Well we don’t have an ideology.” So my friend said to him “What do you do?” The monk thought for a minute and he said “We dance.” All of a sudden he said “It hit me we’re moving in Judeo-Christian circles almost into that same kind of mindless attitude today.” We come to church to sing and dance but it really doesn’t matter what we believe. The danger is once Satan captures the hearts of people he’s got their emotions. He’ll control their mind and ultimately use their body to accomplish whatever purposes he wants to accomplish. All of a sudden we see this descendants of the human race away from family and value…
Sid: It’s like the old story of the frog in the slow boiling water versus the hot.
Ed: You throw him in a pot of hot, a pot of hot water he’ll jump right out, but you put him in a slow boil and he’ll swim around in there until it finally kills him.
Sid: What you’re saying is that’s what is really going on. Let’s go back to the scenario for the future. What do you envision is the mark of the beast?
Ed: I think the mark of the beast is going to be some kind of an external thing that can be seen. The Biblical term in the book of Revelation kragma abrand, a tattoo, it’s not just necessarily something slipped under the skin. It’s something people can immediately identify, these are people that are marked these are the people that are not.
Sid: Sort of like the Jews in Germany who had to wear a Star of David.
Ed: Star of David so they could easily be seen and identified. Had he had the ability to do it today they would have just tattooed that right on everybody. Then you couldn’t pull the star off of your pin and try to hide your identity in some way. I think however if we look at…
Sid: But if it’s on the forehead then everyone will be able to see it.
Ed: See it, yeah. Also then somehow with this thing implant some kind of device in people that can identify their location, can in some ways control their behavior and their physical responses you could end up with a society that is totally, completely, chemically, and computerized controlled.
Sid: This is way beyond Oral Welles’ 1984, way beyond it!
Ed: Way beyond it. Then to satisfy them you dispense physical pleasure to them. You create even if you have to do it artificially the sense of sexual gratification, or physical gratification. You convince them through computerized technology that they’ve just eaten a gigantic chocolate bar and they’re happy. Then they’ll do anything you want them to do. So that’s the scary part of the technology.
Sid: Now what is that famous quote from communism? “Give me a child before a certain age and I’ll make them anything I want.” Isn’t that what this technology will be used with say the next generation of children? Have them totally controlled.
Ed: Yeah you’ve got people right now saying “We should put an identification chip in every kid because then your child can’t be kidnapped, he can’t get lost you lose your kid at the mall you immediately find where he’s at.” Now it’s not as far-fetched as people think so I wouldn’t do that. There are lots of people right now who already have an implanted chip they don’t realize it it’s in their car it’s called OnStar. You get lost you push a button all of a sudden the person comes on and talks to you says “Hey where are you? You’re lost you’re in Philadelphia you’re trying to get to New York you’re on the wrong street you need to go here, go there straighten yourself out etcetera.” We say “Oh that’s terrific!” The chip knows where my car is. Well you put the chip in your dog you know where your dog is. You put it in your child you know where your child is. You put it in you they know where you are.
Sid: As you said earlier this week technology is such that you’ll be able to swallow this chip like a pill.
Ed: Yep so it won’t all that difficult. It won’t even take surgery to implant the thing in you it will implant itself inside you.
Sid: What type of feedback are you getting on your new book “Future Wave?”
Ed: Well people are… everything. Some are thrilled and excited about the potential of using the technology to communicate the gospel. Other people are scared to death saying “Oh my goodness I see us moving into a world of mind control, body control and everything else. I want to know how it will affect my children. How’s it going to affect our kids in our educational system and the next generation?” There’s so much information available on the internet right now….
Sid: I have on the telephone Shirley Smith and I’m speaking to her at her home at North Little Rock, Arkansas. In June of 1995 she got a death sentence from the doctor she was diagnosed with 3rd stage ovarian cancer, 6 months to live. Nothing medical science could do. She began the battle for her life God told her she had to do 3 things, she had to not be in unbelief, she had to stand in faith for her healing. The second thing was she had to rebuild her body and her immune system with proper nutrition. The third she had to reconcile with her son-in-law if she wanted to live. And then she received a mandate to daily come before the Lord and participate in communion the Lord’s Supper. And you began to do this and God showed you Shirley that there were areas in your life you had not released to God. You had not allowed Him to even come in and heal you it was kind of like a spiritual pride and when He began to point these things out to you He directed you towards communion and you found a new power in communion that you’d never seen before tell me about it.
Shirley: Yes okay. Well one day while the Lord was speaking to me about things in those rooms and I explained about yesterday and I’d never allowed Him to go into. He began to tell me about some people in my life and mainly it was a mother-in-law and I had explained rejection there from my in-laws and I said “Lord I’ve already forgiven many of these things you’re telling me I’ve already forgiven her I’ve already talked to her. I’ve already told her that I was sorry for this and for my wrong response. And the Lord replied to me and said “Yes you have forgiven these but you have never released them.” And then I’m thinking about what He said “Release them.” And the Lord spoke again He said “Do you still feel pain when you think of this situation of this person of the comment that was made to you?” And I said “Yes I do.” He said “Then you have not released it.” And I said “Lord I don’t know how to release it if I knew how I would how can I do that how can I release them?” And the Lord and at this moment I’m getting frustrated because I wasn’t get a quick answer and I said “How can I, how can I get a quick release how can I do that?” And I had the communion cup kind of up in the air when I was asking this question and the Lord just profoundly and simply said to me You can release them through the power of the communion cup in your hand. I suddenly had a revelation of a power of the blood of Jesus and the communion. I was so thrilled I quickly said “Wonderful God that will be so easy to do I want to do this.” Okay listen with the revelation of what you just said to me that through the power of the communion cup I can release everything to You. I release everything through the faith in your blood represented in this communion cup.” And I was shocked because the Lord said to me “No, you have to tell me exactly and specifically what you released and explain it to Me.” And you know I was back at square 1 and so through that point on I experience very deep dealings again and painful memories and I just began to just sob out those things but I released and as these hurts would come up and painful memories would come up I would just take the communion cup and I’d say “Father through the power of Your shed blood” and you know the thorns that was put into His head that was the healings of our memories and I said “Lord the chastisement of my peace my peace of mind was upon you and through the power of this cup I release every hurt, every pain” and I began to name the person, I would name what they said to me the rejecting words they said to me.” And when I did that chains of the past began to break off of me.
Sid: You’d think that after all of these years after recognizing and understanding the word to forgive what you did that you wouldn’t be dealing with all of these roots but you’re telling me they really were there.
Shirley: The roots were there and many people and things like to mention people in ministry too because they just forgive and they go on with their hurts because they don’t know what else to do or because they were like me too much pride to even admit they even have a problem.
Sid: Tell me about one of the things God said you had to do and that has to do with forgiving your son-in-law. He said if you wanted to live you had to do this.
Shirley: Right that’s what I did I just began to name the things he had said the things that he had done the last 20 years the ongoing thing with the whole family and as I named those released those those chains broke. And you know finally at the end of the 5 months it was 5 months total I was at sister Gwen’s I had come to my metamorphosis and my rooms were cleaned the chains were broken and I was released to return back to my home. And when I came back to my home the first thing that I did I came back to my doctor for my blood test and my doctor was in shock and he went “What happened to you?” And I said “You wouldn’t believe it if I told you.” And this is my gynecologist not my surgeon not the oncologist I’ve not seen him since. But he said “Well tell me!” and I said “Okay I’ll tell you so I told him everything I just told you and he was so overwhelmed he went “I believe Shirley I believe and I have heard of this but I never knew anybody that it had ever happened to and you are my first miracle patient.”
Sid: Let me read to you Mishpochah because I have in my hand and I might add this is in her booklet that has her entire testimony of how she was healed. A letter from her Gynecologist Dr. Dale Fuller it’s dated June 15, 2000 and this is what he said this is on his stationary:
Shirley is a gynecologic patient of mine and has been for some time and she first presented to my office as a new patient in 1991. In June of ’95 Shirley developed ovarian cancer of which surgery was performed. Stage 3 cancer was found as well as cancer that had spread to the large and small intestines as well as other structures. Shirley declined to receive chemotherapy following the surgery as I advised her. Shirley decided to rely on her faith for healing of this cancer. As Shirley’s OBGYN I have kept a close watch over her by ordering regular annual blood tests and physical examinations. Each test has proven the miraculous healing that has existed in her for the past 5 years. There is no medical doubt that she should have died years ago with the spread of cells and conditions left in her body. In June 2000 she underwent a series of blood work and tests including an MRI to rule out any evidence of reoccurrence of cancer. All tests were negative revealing Shirley to be clean and clear of any evidence of cancer in her body. To this day I am grateful to still call her my miracle lady.
I mean talk about documentation Shirley.
Sid: But let me ask you this question, when God took you through these hurts were they very painful?
Shirley: Extremely, extremely the roots.
Sid: And as you prayed over communion and released each one specifically did you feel them leave?
Shirley: Yes I did, yes I did it was like a chain breaking. You know I didn’t even know I head the chain there. I mean I knew I had bondages yes I never dreamed I had that much bondage and that much you know it was really taking out of the peace of mind. We’re not looking at oppressed things and suppressed things and we can bring…and I learned this in psychiatric nursing but it’s easier to analyze somebody else than to analyze your own self we can push them into our subconscious mind and that’s what I had done to deal with that.
Sid: But let me ask you just a bit about your son-in-law there was a point where you actually wrote out a blessing for him explain that.
Shirley: Yes I did well let me just say first that we have made peace with each other we now have expressed our love, our respect and our acceptance for one another. And later after this reconciliation the Lord instructed me to speak a blessing over their marriage. Well I had never done anything like this before and I had really felt at loss of how to do it and I said “Lord well I’ve blessed them for years.” He said “Yes but they have never heard you do it they have never heard you say those words.” And so I said “Okay.” I began to try to write up you know a blessing and it didn’t sound like anything. I read scriptures I read books on blessing, nothing fit the situation so I was frustrated and so I said “Lord now listen I want to be obedient and I want to do what You told me to do but if You don’t help me I can’t do it I don’t know how to do this so please help me.” And this is another… I mean God orchestrated it was a supernatural thing again my whole story is supernatural this is one of the best parts. Suddenly when I told the Lord I can’t do it You’re going to have to do it for me or help me my anointing or an unction fell on me that just grab a piece of paper and pencil and I began to write.” This did not come from my mind, I repeat this did not come from my mind this came out of my spirit. And I was shocked at what I was writing and this is what happened. My pen just flew across the paper and I was invoking many beautiful blessings and I was amazed while I watched this and I began to recognize so much of so much of what I was writing there was scripture. And I thought “Oh what an awesome blessing because this clearly expresses my heart. So when I finished this beautiful thing I shared it with my husband. The Lord said to me “I want you to present that to them.” Well when I got ready to present this to my daughter and son-in-law the Lord orchestrated this so beautifully I didn’t know how He’d worked with him. And so when I was telling him how it happened he said to me now what exactly, when exactly did you receive this? And I told him and when I told him this it was at 6:00 Sunday afternoon my son-in-laws face lite up and he said “Oh I can’t believe this” because at that same hour the pastor had said “If there’s anyone here who needs to release themselves from someone they tried to forgive but they just can’t get free I want you to come to the front and let me pray for you.” He said “At 6:00 you’re getting this blessing over us he said I went to the front and for the first time I got a complete freedom.”
Sid: I have on the telephone Shirley Smith I’m speaking to her at her home in North Little Rock, Arkansas. We found out on the last few days that she was diagnosed with third stage ovarian cancer. Her abdomen was filled with malignant tumors 6 months to live nothing medical science could do and God spoke to her and said “Shirley if you’ll do these things I’ll heal you.
You must stand in faith for your healing.
You must rebuild your body and your immune system with proper nutrition
You must reconcile with your son-in-law if you want to live.
And then she was given a mandate to daily participate in communion. And Shirley you went to your friend’s house who was saturating you in prayer and when you got there she told you something not knowing what God had told you the day before. What did she say?
Shirley: Well when I arrived at Sister Gwen’s house the first thing she did was offer me the holy communion and she had never done that before and I’d been in her home many times and she’d been in mine and we just never thought to take communion but she did. She said “Shirley I want to serve you communion.” And I thought that oh this looks like a confirmation coming here and so she did. And then she took the table and she set it beside the bedroom door and she said “Now honey I’m going to put this here and you can take communion daily if you want to.” That confirmed my instruction from the Lord.
Sid: You told me that you actually… that the Lord allowed you to look into the invisible world and see exactly what you were dealing with that was manifesting itself as cancer tell me what you saw.
Shirley: Right in yesterday’s testimony I was talking about the 3 things that God said. And when He told me that I would settle my fate you know for this healing. Well I’m thinking “Gosh you know” I said “Lord let’s reason this out because You know my faith level I know how to fight but my faith level Lord I don’t think it’s high enough to fight in that realm of cancer.” And the Lord said to me I …this is so beautiful it was music to my ears “I will accept your faith level where it is if you will just use it and I said “Okay I can do that.” And then I further apologized I said “I’m just so sorry that I don’t have big faith for cancer.” And you know we think that cancer is a fatal thing and the Lord responded to me and His voice came like thunder in my ear and He said to me “Cancer is not big I am big!” And I went “Uh.” Just the reality hit me that no cancer is not big God is bigger” and when I saw in a vision or when I saw in the realm of the spirit I saw this monstrous thing in front of me just like over me and it hit when the Lord said that it hit the floor. And when it did I put my foot on it and I said “You are under my feet and I trample and I tread on you in the name of the Lord and you stay under my feet.” And that was a spirit of fear that had told me in my mind so many hours and days here. And that’s what I saw in the realm of the spirit. So when I was at Sister Gwen she confirmed that I was going to daily communion. You know when I was upset again there was areas in my life that God had not deeply dealt with yet so I was fearful of communion. But I loved the Lord with all of my heart and it’s always my desire to please Him so I just said “Lord I’m just going to step over my struggle with fear here to obey you” and so I did. And I met, and oh it was so beautiful just a few weeks later the miracle began to unfold. And the Holy Spirit and truth He is the Spirit of truth. Truth met me daily at the communion table and once again the Lord and I began to come into an intimate relationship on daily basis. And I was brought face to face with my healer and my revealer. And one day the Lord asked me a question and He said “Are you ready to allow me to go into the rooms of your heart where I’ve never been, the rooms that you have never given me entrance to. And a different truth at that point had begun to dawn on me. And I began to realize that He wanted to heal me emotionally as well as physically so I just quickly whispered “Yes Lord let’s go in.” I embraced it and you know I know the potter’s wheel I’ve been on the potter’s wheel many times through the years and I’ve learned to trust His hand. Brother Sid I know that God is always on my side and whatever He works in my heart and in my life is always for good and my flesh will scream many times in the shaping and breaking and the remolding but my spirit is always edified my soul is always released. And so I knew I was on the Potter’s wheel so you know I just embraced that and I said “Lord do Your work in me.” And the Lord began to speak to me and you have legal doors in your life and I’ve covered you with grace and mercy many times but now Satan has come to take your life and His hands have been tied now because of my open doors in my life. Because when we refuse to forgive it ties the hands of God Matthew 18:37 declares this. And so I knew that I really had to yield completely everything to the Lord. And then while He was talking to me He brought back to me about the rooms of my heart that He had not had entrance into and I knew what He was talking about. And I want to share a vision here about the rooms of my heart. I sat daily for 3 months going through actually 5 total but 3 really intense going through this daily communion. And confession and repentance and healing but He said to me “I want to go into those rooms.” And so here was the vision “About 4 years before this attack of cancer hit me I was in intercession and prayer and I went into a vision and in the vision Holy Spirit said to me “I’m going to take you on a tour through your spiritual house.” And I said “Well okay.” And in the vision we began to walk through the house and He took me in rooms that had this exquisitely ornate furniture it was just carved so beautiful of finest of woods like mahogany and pecan and you know oak and ebony and I was just very impressed with all that I saw and I said “Oh Lord that is just so beautiful.” And so we went through many rooms like this and then He took me into a room and there was a chair that had been partially carved and the back was carved and the arm was carved along the side was carved and the chisel and the hammer lay on the seat and I looked at the seat and I looked at that and I went well you know Lord you didn’t finish it what happened You didn’t finish carving this? And the Lord just responded to me and said “You never allowed me to finish that you drew back from Me.” And I went “I don’t understand.” And the Lord said “These carvings that you see on this wood you know we’re broken vessels this carving you see on this furniture here is My deep dealings in your life. My dealings meaning My corrections, My instructions My breaking, My molding you by changing your life changing your heart, changing your motives, changing your ministry these are deep deep dealings where I work deeply in your heart to put My nature in you.” Now I went “Okay wonderful.” So we went down the hallway and we went past some of these doors in these rooms and I said I’m waiting for Him to go in and He said “No.” And I said “What’s in that room?” And the Lord said “I’ve never been in there you haven’t allowed Me to go in there.” And I said “Okay and we walked down the hallway and there was another door and I’m waiting for Him to go in and He didn’t go in and I said “Well what’s in this room?” And He said “I’ve never been in there I haven’t been in this one either you have never allowed Me to go in this room.” And I said “Okay and so we walked on down the hallway and we came to this huge room an awesome room like a big ballroom with like marble or onyx floor. And in this room if I can describe this where you can comprehend this is maybe you’ve had an experience like this I don’t know but I saw the shekinah glory of God and I’ve seen this many times but and it’s always like a white iridescent mist and it had a beams of light gold and silver flashing through it. And I could see the forms of people in this glory cloud or this shekinah glory or in this mist. I couldn’t tell you know I couldn’t recognize anybody by the face but I could see that there were many in this and I said “Now Lord what’s going on here and what is this?” And the Lord said “This is my Glory and I’m going to bring you into that.” And that was the end of the vision. So I realized and God began to say to my “You know I’m going to change you.” And He said to me “When I’m finished with you I’m going to bring you into this glory.” And that’s what the Lord did and so it was so wonderful I said “Okay Lord let’s go into those rooms because I desired to walk into the glory.” And so the Lord began to open the doors of these rooms and I knew that behind those doors lay a lot of pain and a lot of hurt.
Sid: You had told me that you were raised in a house that had a lot of abuse.
Shirley: Right, right and so I knew I mean I had dealt with a lot of that I really had through the years but there were roots this is important this is a key. We can deal with a tree we can cut the limbs off we can even cut the trunk off but if you don’t get the roots out it will grow back. And actually that’s what had happened to me I had cut down many things I had taken many things out of my life but I never got to the roots and the root of these was abuse and rejection and hurts that had been very deep in my heart. And behind these doors the image roots were many people that included family, it includes friends other Christians brothers and sisters. And even some ministers and pastors where I had been wounded deeply. And so many things had really been collected over the years and they had just stayed buried you know deep in my heart. And I have to make a confession here and I think it’s important for your listeners and for others that often maybe listening as in ministry, listen to my testimony I want to say I know that I’m not the only one guilty of this but I had a high profile in ministry most of my life. I came in there early in my early 20’s and God’s used me in many many I wore many hats. He’s used me in many different types of ministry and I’ve always had a high profile with TV and radio and etcetera and because of this I just refused to let anybody know that I had these problems you know deep in my heart and in my life. And actually I had a religious pride that held me…
Sid: Hold that thought Mishpochah we’re out of time…
Sid: I have on the telephone I’m speaking to her at her home in North Little Rock, Arkansas Shirley Smith. Shirley and her husband were missionaries they came back in June of 1995 from the jungles of South America. And she had her annual checkup and the surgeon found that she had 3rd stage ovarian cancer. Her abdomen was filled with malignant tumors and there was nothing medical science could do. She had 6 months to live, 17 people in her family had died from cancer already. What about fear Shirley?
Shirley: Okay that’s a good question and I sure would love to give an answer because I like people to take courage of this. Number 1 let me just say this, 2nd Timothy 1:7 says For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but power love and a sound mind.” In that verse he calls fear a spirit because he says “spirit of fear.” We know that we have authority in the name and dominion over spirits. We know that He has given us this power to tread on scorpions, adders, serpents, and that nothing of the enemy shall harm us. So it’s a spirit…
Sid: But Shirley it’s one thing to know that, it’s also one thing to proclaim that or preach it, but it’s another thing when it’s happening to you.
Shirley: Right it was happening to me I knew the scripture, I’ve acted on the scripture in the past many times in other situations I knew it worked so it was a weapon that I had. So… but I was in a weakened condition because of the devastation of my body and my mind this is why I was having to exert so much effort even to fight that very spirit. So this is how I fought it, the Holy Spirit at this time began to really speak to my heart and He said to me “You are going through the valley of the shadow of death.” He cautioned me in Proverbs 13:3 He gave me this scripture and said “Watch the words of your mouth.” “For he that keepeth the words of his mouth keepeth his life, but he that opens wide his lips shall have destruction.” And I knew that was a serious scripture He had given me and fully began to realize then what I had really is very serious and I had to be very careful about my words. Then He gave me Psalms 118 verse 17 and 18 to fight with which says: “I shall live and not die and declare the works of the Lord. He has chastened me sore but he has not given me over to death.” So I would fight with… was battling in the arena of my mind now not in my spirit it was in my mind. I knew that Satan was coming for my words because God had given me this scripture to watch the words of my mouth so I knew he was coming for my words just like an angel came to Daniel, over in the book of Daniel. He said “The first day that you made supplication we heard you and now I have come for your words the Prince of Persia withstood me.” So I knew God was hearing me and I knew that I had to call upon the power of the angels to help put this thing through, my prayers through. So I’ve had many angel experiences also in the past and I’ve seen them work for me, I’ve seen them protect me, and I just know it works. So I begin to declare Isaiah 54:17 “That no weapon formed against me shall prosper,” none! “That this is the inheritance of the saints and my righteousness is of Him.” So I said “Lord I need you to help me now to put a guard over our gate, over my mouth.” When my body would jerk and convulse at the pain of my bed, my emotions of course would weaken and waiver but my faith never did. I still stood strong and I watched the word, it would be on the tip of my tongue the wrong thing I went “eh eh.!” I won’t say it, I won’t say it.
Sid: And about that time you received an invitation from a woman by the name of Gwen Shaw who is the founder of the End Time Handmaidens a women’s organization. She thought that if you went to her house she could really saturate you with prayer which was a wonderful thing and just before you got to here house God told you do 3 things.
Shirley: Hmm hm. Okay there was a lot that took place before I got to her house because I had a very powerful encounter with my oncologist. They called me back from the doctor’s office and they said “We want you to come in for your second treatment of chemo.” I said to her “I am not coming in for a second treatment, the first one almost killed me. I’ve already called the hospital and cancelled , I’ve called… cancelled my bed, cancelled the other doctor that’s going to administrate that” and she was very upset with me. She said “Well you’ll have to come in and speak with the oncologist about this.” I said “Wonderful give me an appointment with him.” So I went in and I began to speak with this doctor and the first thing… I knew this man was a very aggressive man and that he could manipulate me, try to manipulate me with fear and I hate that spirit. I was already warned with that thing so my daughter went with me. We prayed in his office before he ever came in while we were waiting against this type of thing. So the first thing he said when he came in he was very warm and very friendly and he said “Well how have you been? I want to tell you I just came from Mayo Clinic and we have discussed ovarian cancer there and the heads, the big heads Shirley, the big heads have said that the treatment, the best treatment for ovarian cancer is exactly what I gave you. Now listen Shirley the big heads said this.” Now what I’m proceeding this thing is the medical gods. He says “The big heads say that I have given you the best treatment” and I said “Yes perhaps you did and it almost killed me. I laid at deaths door for 9 days while you were gone to your meeting and your associate put me back in the hospital.” He went “Oh, oh, oh” when I listened “Shirley that’s just part of it, that’s just part of the treatment.” Then he said “You’re going to have to take this second treatment” he said “I’m going to give you a lighter dose and I’m going to give you a second treatment” and I said “No you’re not. I’m not taking another treatment.” He became very angry with me and he put his hand on his hip and he raised his voice and he pointed his finger at me and he said “Listen to me. Listen to me Shirley! If you don’t take this chemo you’re going to die!” Well you know maybe my flesh rose up these were fighting words to me. I said “Wait, wait, wait! Let me explain to you, you cannot scare me with death and let me explain to you why, but I want to ask you one question first. Did you believe that the Bible is the word of God and it is true? First do you believe that?” He thought a minute and he hesitated and he went “Yes, yes I do.” I said “Okay I just want to establish you if we are getting here” and I said I want to ask you a question now I said “I really want to tell you something.” I said “Let me give you a scripture of where my stand is on death.” I said “The Bible says ‘That precious in the eyes of the Lord is the death of His saints.’ And the Bible says ‘That absence from the body is present with the Lord.’ That means I step out of this body into my glorified body.” He went “Wait a minute” I said “No you wait I’m not finished. The Bible says that ‘It is appointed unto man once to die then after that the judgment.’ Now listen only God knows the appointed time because it’s appointed unto man once to die, it is an appointed time and you are not God and you cannot tell me I have 6 months because you don’t know that. Only God knows my appointed time.” He started to speak and I went “Wait I’m not finished I’m going to give you another scripture. The Bible says ‘That I am going to live and not die and declare the works of the Lord. He has chastened me sore but He has not given me over unto death.’”
Sid: Shirley you are the devil’s worst nightmare he’s getting nowhere with you.
Shirley: Absolutely. Oh the Spirit of the Lord took over in me at that moment. Those words…and scripture just flowed out of me. He was speechless and I said “Wait I want to tell you, listen to me. Listen to me! Bottom line I don’t know what you’re doing but I know what I’m doing. ‘I am going to live and not die and declare the works of the Lord,’ and let me add my part to this doctor I’m going to return to the nations where God has called me to teach His word. Listen to me don’t you ever ever let those words of death come out of your mouth again! Don’t you ever speak death over me again! You speak life to me!” I left his office and I’ve not seen him since.”
Sid: (Chuckling) Okay the Lord instructed you 3 things that you had to do.
Shirley: Right, okay Sister Gwen calls and now my confrontation with the doctor is over and I’ve gone to Sister Gwen’s house. Sister Gwen she’s my spiritual missionary mom for many years and God has called me to her many times and she’s always impacted my life and I’m thinking this is one more time that God is giving me another divine appointment and God’s going to change some things in my life. So when I got there she knew nothing about my mandates and my commandments. Before I went, the night before I went I was in prayer and I began to pray and I said “Lord you know I just want to please You. I know that my life is Your’s and I just want to please You and so You tell me what to do.” So this is what I heard Him say, audibly God spoke this to me, there’s been a few time in my life that God has spoken audibly and this is one of those times. This is during night time battle and I heard the voice of the Lord in an audible form and He said “If you want to leave you have to reconcile with your son-in-law.” I thought about that and He said I’m going to give you 3 commandments:
You have to reconcile with your son-in-law
You have to change your diet and rebuild your body with nutrition
You have to stand on your faith
I’m giving you a mandate to come to the communion table
So to go back and explain about each one of those things was God said to me “You have to reconcile your son-in-law” I thought “Oh Lord I have tried that many times and it has never worked, I never got any response from him.” I felt like “Lord that’s like a death sentence itself because he has refused to reconcile. The Lord said to me “IF YOU WANT TO LIVE YOU RECONCILE!” I said “Okay Lord I have to believe that You’re going to work in his heart…
Sid: We’re out of time. Hold that thought
Sid: But I’ve got to repeat that sentence again. God said to Shirley “If you want to live you must reconcile.” Powerful words
Sid RothComments Off on Our Guest Dr. Chauncey Crandall
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest is a leading cardiologist and then it changes. Do you know in the operating room he prays in supernatural languages? Do you know in the operating room he prays for the dead and they come back? Do you know that in the operating room God tells him what to do and saves people’s lives? That’s my kind of doctor. Dr. Crandall, you work for three hospitals, but there was a very profound moment in your life. You’re 19, you’re an intern and someone you know dies. What affect did it have on you?
DR. CRANDALL: Well you know, Sid, this was first time that I really witnessed death. And as a young man I entered that autopsy room and there was this gentleman that I had known for many months that was dead on the table. I was shocked. I couldn’t believe it. His whole insides were emptied. In fact, and what happened was, Sid, that it made me think that there is something else to life, that life with all its order and complexity doesn’t just end when we die. Something must move on ahead. And it was the first time that I really ever thought about God and Heaven.
SID: Now you heard the audible voice of God to tell you to be praying for your patients. Tell me exactly what happened.
DR. CRANDALL: Well you know, this was, one day I was walking down the hospital ward on the basement. And I had been praying for people, but it seemed like many of the people weren’t receptive, and I was concerned. So I cried out to God for three months for an answer to prayer, “Lord, send me the people group you want me to pray for.” And what I did that morning, I pressed the elevator button to go up. I prayed that prayer again, “Lord, send me your people group that I can pray for that are receptive.” And I heard the voice of God, and the voice of God said this, “Your people are your patients Dr. Crandall. I’ve sent them to you and I haven’t sent them to anyone else. And he also, the Lord also said, “If you don’t pray to bring them into the Kingdom of God no one else will.” And it changed my life. Now I knew that I could pray for my patients and for the sick on the hospital wards, and it would be covered by Almighty God.
SID: You know, I would think in the culture we’re in now that it would last like ten seconds and you would be kicked out.
DR. CRANDALL: Well you know, I went undercover in the beginning, to tell you the truth. And, but as I started to pray, Sid, I saw miracles.
SID: Tell me about one of your first ones — Earl.
DR. CRANDALL: Well Earl was a heart transplant patient. He had been on the waiting list for months and months. He was in ICU. There was no way we could get him a heart and he was dying before our eyes. But I read in my Bible, Sid, that we could pray for the sick in the name of Jesus and that they could recover. I had never prayed for anyone like that before. And I walked into that room with Earl, who was depressed and was down and out, and in fact who was dying, and I said, “Earl, in my Bible it says that we can pray for the sick and they can be healed in Jesus’ name. I will pray for you.”
SID: Excuse me. Were you trembling a little bit on the inside?
DR. CRANDALL: Yes, I was. I was nervous. I had never prayed for anyone like that. I had never stepped out and prayed for someone like that, but I prayed with Earl. We held hands. It was a simple prayer. Father God, in the name of Jesus I ask you to heal Earl, in Jesus’ name. And that man that couldn’t left his head off the pillow for three months, within a couple days, he was lifting his head off the pillow. And then a couple days more, he was sitting on the side of the bed and within not many weeks, he left that hospital, Sid, without the need of a heart transplant, and he was healed.
SID: I told you, he’s my kind of doctor. You have so many amazing stories of experiences of patients (don’t tell this to most of your doctors) being raised from the dead. You don’t hear doctors talk about this. When we come back, I want to find out about some of his experiences of praying for people that were dead that have come back to life. Don’t go away.
SID: Now Billye, you talk about drawing a blood line. This again is what they used to teach at the great Azusa Street Revival. What does that mean and how do you do it?
BILLYE: Well this story was told to me by Don Gossett, maybe you knew him, and he knew of a Brother Stephenson who had gone up in to Canada and was doing, this was years ago, and was doing some meetings and they were really hitting the devil hard. So the devil started telling Brother Stephenson, “I’m going to kill your children while you’re away.” And Brother Stephenson said, “Oh no, you’re not.” He had left his children in the care of their grandparents. And the devil said to him, “You saw foxes on your land before you left. I have placed rabies on them and they’re going to kill your children.” So Brother Stephenson, his wife and the pastors there, they grabbed hands and they drew a blood line around his property. A few days, weeks later, he got a letter. It was before when we had cell phones and he didn’t make long distance calls that much. He got a letter from his brother and his brother said, “I was out walking your property line and I found five dead foxes. I sent them off and they were rabid.” So they drew a blood line and the foxes didn’t cross it because the enemy had told them, “I put the rabies on it.”
SID: But if the blood line hadn’t been there, those foxes with rabies would have gone in.
BILLYE: Yes, and would have killed them.
SID: That blood line sounds pretty good to me.
BILLYE: Oh, I’m telling you, that blood line, the biblical basis for this is the Passover. The Bible says, “The destroyer came.” And it says in Hebrews that, “Moses sprinkled with the blood lest the destroyer come against them.” So it’s the destroying death angel that came to Pharaoh and killed the firstborn. But what did they do? He told them, “You slay on them. You put the blood as a token.” Tokens are to be seen. “As a token on the lintel and the post and then this death angel will pass over the blood It can’t come into you.” That’s a blood line. Now what did you have to do? You had to believe that that blood line was there on the door post, but you couldn’t just believe it and go out anywhere you wanted to go. You had to get behind that blood line. You had to take you and your family behind that blood line. So that’s what I do with me and my family. I take us behind the blood line. So we apply the blood by pleading the blood as a token to be seen. And I can guarantee you that the enemy knows me. He said, “Jesus I know and Paul I know. But who are you?” he said to the seven sons of Sceva, but he knows me. He would mark me, I’m telling you right now. He doesn’t like teaching authority to the believer.
SID: Hey, here’s what I’d like to know. You have understood this. You have pleaded the blood. You have spoken. You’ve made much of the blood.
BILLYE: Yes, I have.
SID: How many children and grandchildren do you have?
BILLYE: I have four children. I have ten grandchildren, three great-grandchildren, two on the way and all my children are in the ministry and eight of ten grandchildren are in the ministry.
SID: I’ll tell you what, I believe because you knew how to plead the blood, because you knew how to put the blood line on, because you knew how to pray from that seed of authority at the right hand of God the Father, you are one wealthy woman, not with money, but with family. There is nothing wealthier. Don’t go away.
Sid RothComments Off on Our Guests John and Lisa Bevere
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with John and Lisa Bevere. Lisa, where would you say an important turning point in your marriage was?
LISA: You know, when I chose to forgive. You know, when John came home when I locked him out, I got alone with God and I was like, “God, I hope that you’re speaking to John. I hope that you are rebuking him. I hope you’re giving him some bad dreams. I hope that you’re just going to jerk the slack out of him.” And God said, “You need to forgive.” And I was like, no, no, no. I’ll forgive him when he changes. And the Holy Spirit said, “No, you need to forgive him so he can change.” We don’t understand the power of forgiveness. When I forgive somebody, I actually release them to be everything that God wants them to be. And John came home from that weekend locked out and came to me, and he was like, hey, I’m sorry. And usually I would say, well I forgive you, but you need to understand, you did this, this, this, this and this. I had a whole bank account. But the Holy Spirit said, “I want you to look at is your husband and when he says, I’m sorry, I want you to say, I believe you want to change and I forgive you.” And that is what Jesus says to me every single time I come to him. He doesn’t say, Lisa I’ve got this whole list of things and you’re going to do it again in the future. He just says, I believe you want to change and I forgive you. You know, looking back over 33 years of marriage, there’s a couple of things I regret as a wife, things that I wish I would have done differently. And number one, I wish I would have loved him more fearlessly. You know, I came into the marriage—
SID: What do you mean by fearlessly?
LISA: Well I came in with a lot of fear. So I would measure my love. I wasn’t willing to give all of my heart to John because I was afraid if I gave him all of my heart that he would break my heart. So I would always reserve a little bit back. And I remember John would say to me, “I’m not your dad. I’m not your dad. I’m not going to leave you, I’m going to abandon you.” I was so afraid that if he made a mistake it was going to destroy me. And so I would control him and then he would try to control me, and it was just this ridiculous dynamic. We did a lot of things imperfectly, but we learned from all of our mistakes. And so that’s, again, what you asked me earlier in the show, why would we have shared that. Because we actually really do want something more for the other couples.
SID: John, what affect did it have on you when your wife just forgave you with no list, no laundry list?
JOHN: When you’re forgiven like that, you all of a sudden, your heart gets even more tender to doing wrong again. And that’s what people don’t realize, is the forgiveness that God gives, it motivates us to want to please him more. We’re so overwhelmed by his mercy that he’s given to us. I don’t want to hurt his heart because he’s been so good to me. When your spouse is like that with you, it’s the same way. It’s no different. And so I would just say with couples that you’re looking at your side too much. You’ve got to start believing. You know, I kept thinking about when you were saying that, that the love of God, its hopes are fadeless. The hopes never give up. When Jesus, you know, says to us, he says, hey, you’ve done this, you know, 500 times before, I’m not going to listen to you anymore. Well you know, he’s not going to be saying it 500 times, because you know what? His forgiveness really does release us. And that’s what I’ve noticed about God’s forgiveness in my life, is that it really frees me and empowers me. Her forgiveness to me freed me and empowered me to be a better husband. I know that marriage is an institution given by God because it makes us better as individuals. God said in Malachi that “He’s looking for godly offspring out of marriage.” Well it says offspring in the New King James. But in another version it says, “Looking for godly children.” And I think what God is saying is not only natural children, but it makes us better men and women of God because you’d never, ever, ever had read one book by John Bevere, never, not one had it not been for Lisa Bevere. Never. Because I am today because of what she and Jesus have done in my life.
SID: There was a quote you told me before we went on the air, it’s from the Message Bible about divorce. Would you tell that again.
JOHN: Well you know, Jesus, if you look at the Message Bible, when Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and to his own disciples, he called marriage God’s art. And he said, “I’ll hold you accountable for desecrating God’s art. Can you imagine if somebody went and on the Mona Lisa, the original, would have just vandalized it. I mean, Leonardo Da Vinci would have rolled over in his grave, right. Can you imagine how God feels the way marriage is being treated right now in our nation, even amongst Christians. It’s like our society is taking God’s term and they’re desecrating it right now with the way they’re defining it. They’re ruining this organic union.
SID: John, there’s a lot of hurting people out there. Would you pray for them?
JOHN: I want to look at you right now. If your marriage is under attack, let me tell you, this attack can be thwarted, it can be stopped. And so I want to pray for you right now. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom I belong to, whom I serve, who has changed my marriage, I speak to the demonic forces that have attacked this marriage and I break the power of those forces, and I call for strife and division to leave this marriage. I release forgiveness into this marriage and I release the hope that is in Christ Jesus into this marriage. In Jesus’ name, I command all opposition, every word that’s been spoken against your union. I break the power of those words and I release the Word of God that says, there will be a miracle, there will be a fusing together of the hearts and souls in this marriage, in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Amen.
SID: I have a word from God for you. Don’t give up. Never give up.
SID: Now I hope you like our aprons. It says, “Meshuga for Yeshua”. Meshuga is Hebrew for crazy and Yeshua is Hebrew for Jesus. So it’s saying, “Crazy for Jesus”. And some of you are laughing at me at home. I’m going to get the last laugh. Who are you crazy for? Well when we were going to break, I’m concerned about what is going on inside of our bodies. This inflammation, it’s pandemic, literally, and it’s increasing all the time. And you tell me that it’s the cause of just about every disease there is. So you said you have a solution. Before we, during our break, Cherie told me she was going to introduce me to God’s pharmacy.
CHERIE: And here we are. And this is our answer. The anti-inflammatory diet is what we’re talking about today and showing you. And whether you juice or not, not everybody wants to juice vegetables, but everybody has got to eat. We eat usually three times a day, and some people are eating even more than that.
SID: Why are you looking at me that way?
CHERIE: You don’t. You’re trim. But we’ve got to eat something.
CHERIE: Let’s eat God’s food, real food, clean food, they’re calling it today, non-sprayed, no pesticides, not adulterated, not denatured, not put in boxes and packages, but real, whole food, God’s vegetables and fruit and beautiful clean meats, and wild caught fish, and stuff not sprayed, organic. And this is God’s answer. This is what he’s provided for us. It’s the right fuel for these bodies.
SID: Point out a little of God’s pharmacy here. This looks so good. You’re getting me hungry.
CHERIE: And I hope to get everybody hungry. So we’ve got a beautiful salmon nicoise salad. Nicoise is just the vegetables and so forth, arranged on the plate. And you could put a dressing over it, beautiful wild caught salmon. We’ve got rutabaga on here. Try some vegetables you haven’t tried before, absolutely going to be so great for you. And then moving over, we’ve got a free-range chicken and this is good for you, and vegetables, green beans and carrots. Get more vegetables into your diet. Everybody is studying, from Harvard University on down, and increasing the number of vegetables that we should be eating. Servings are going up. It’s not the five any more. It’s seven to maybe 13, and so few people are eating hardly any. So it’s time to do that. That’s why I love to talk about juicing. You can get a whole bunch of those vegetables in.
SID: That looks more like fruit. Is that?
CHERIE: Here’s an anti-inflammatory shake: dark red cherries, proven by studies to cut down inflammation. Dark chocolate, this is unsweetened. Remember we want to get those sugars out. And a good milk like almond milk or hemp milk, unsweetened, and blend all that up and we’ve got a fabulous anti-inflammatory dark chocolate cherry shake, dark cherries also very good for gout, anyone that’s suffering from that. I’ve got so many recipes that I share with people, like this.
SID: Now Cherie, I have a lot of friends that salt everything. What’s wrong with table salt?
CHERIE: Well here we’ve got a little example. The table salt that we find everywhere today in restaurants and what we buy and take home, is not good. If it is salt, it’s heated to very, very high temperatures, anti-caking agents, sugars, and all sorts of things put in there. But what they’re using a lot today is from the crude oil flake leftovers that they’re creating for salt. Do not do that. Do not have that salt. Get the real stuff like pink Himalayan salt or sea salt and use that because it’s rich in minerals. That’s the kind of salt God gave us.
SID: What about, I have to talk about me now, I microwave everything. What’s wrong with microwave?
CHERIE: Okay, I’m going to come to your house. We cannot microwave. It creates toxic byproducts in our food. And lots of people love the convenience. Oh, I’ll just pop it in the microwave, you know, a couple of minutes. This is not good. All of this convenience is harming our bodies. We do not want toxic byproducts in our food, and it denatures and destroys nutrients, and then creates toxicity on top of it. A lot of people say to me, can’t I just microwave it because I don’t care if I destroy all the nutrient for a few meals. No, no, no, because you’re going to end up with toxic stuff in there. And so I say, it’s so easy, I heat everything up. Get out a pan. Just put your leftovers in there. Get out your teakettle, warm your water there, heat it up. It will only take maybe a minute or two more, but you’re saving your body, and you’re doing so much good for your body.
SID: Allergies, it’s pandemic. I mean, you take a kid to a doctor today and they’ll have a list, you’re allergic to a hundred things. What’s causing that?
CHERIE: Yes. It’s our bad diet and all of the foods that are denatured, the fiber removed, all the nutrients practically removed, And they’re chock full of toxic stuff, pesticides, herbicides in there, additives, colors, the dyes in there, and all sorts of other preservatives and things in that food. The body was never designed to have that. And then we’re missing out on God’s pharmacy, all of the high nutrition we need: the vitamins, minerals, enzymes, biophotons, phytonutrients that feed our body, feed our immune system. So all of these allergies, asthma and so forth, this is an immune system out of balance, out of whack, over-reacting, causing all of these problems. So many people I’ve worked with get on the right program and many of these allergies disappear.
SID: Another problem in America is most Americans are grossly overweight. If we eat all this great food, we’re going to be even fatter.
CHERIE: We’re going to be slimmer.
CHERIE: Like you. We’re going to be trim. Because you know what? We’re not getting all of that food that’s, it’s a model culture food diet that’s going all over the world right now. It’s based on gluten and potato starch, and corn, and sugar, and in all sorts of forms. That is the most fattening stuff on the face of the earth. And you know? On top of it, people are still hungry. So people will eat a whole bunch of this stuff and a little while later, they’ll say, I’m still hungry, I want a little something, I want something else. It’s not a bowl of ice cream your body is craving. But people are still eating and eating, and eating because your brain is sending a message to your body, feed me nutrients, vitamins, minerals, enzymes. I need more the right stuff and they’re not giving it the right stuff, so they’re eating and eating, and eating bags of chips and crackers, and cookies, and burgers and fries, and shakes, milkshakes, and ice cream, and on and on it goes.
SID: You know what I’m so amazed? Doctors say stress is one of the most dangerous things and causes so many problems. This will get rid of your stress. I can’t wait for you to see in your life the marriage of the natural and the supernatural, and I pray in Yeshua’s name that you start taking care of your body, which God says is the temple of the Holy Spirit.