SID: So what happens when you go all over the world, you see the greatest creative miracles. I mean, 24 out of 25 blind people get their sight back and the 25th didn’t because she didn’t want it. Literally, she thought it was better for her testimony to be blind. I don’t get that, David. But you get sick.
SID: That’s where the rubber hits the road.
DAVID: Oh yes.
SID: Tell me about it.
DAVID: Years of doing healing services and seeing these miracles I started getting a pain in my lower back that just, I couldn’t sit down. I couldn’t drive. I was taking 18-hour flights and I was miserable for like six months, just hard to do any kind of travel. And I started reading Mark 11. It talked about the fig tree and the power in your words, and talked about whosoever and whatsoever, whatever you believe that God will do it. And I started studying on that and I got healed. But the very, almost literally the next day, if not the next week for sure, my knee went out. I don’t know what happened. I was lifting, helped my brother move some furniture and it just went out. Well that little problem with just a twinge or hurt on my knee turned into a big problem where I couldn’t even walk.
SID: So you’re walking and limping.
SID: And I’m going to get a hold of you guys.
DAVID: And it’s funny. When I started preaching I was fine, moving around and everything. But then after the service, I’m all limping, going back to my room. I look like I need assistance and I was seeing knees healed and healed, and healed. I could hear the cracking in the knees. I could see knees popping back. I prayed for one lady and she hadn’t picked up her grand kids for seven years, and I prayed and automatically she just popped up, I’m healed, and she was able to pick up your grandchildren.
SID: So what do you think when people’s knees are being healed and you’re aching for all your worth?
DAVID: I’m thinking, what did I do wrong, Lord? Where did I go wrong? And then I went ahead and just kept studying, and kept going. Out of the whole I thing, I got to say one thing. I didn’t stop doing the will of God. I didn’t stop believing. I didn’t stop trusting because I’m praying in confidence that the scriptures are real, that the scriptures are true and people are getting healed. Regardless of how I feel or how I look, it’s still God’s Word reigns true. And I kept doing that and believing in that, and then it wasn’t until I got to Kenya, this was like six months with this knee problem already, and I’m preaching, and I’m preaching a message that I’ve been preaching in the churches, whosoever and whatsoever. I love doing that message. And I’m over there preaching and I said, Lord, that’s it. I need to figure out why I’m not being healed because it was really getting back where I couldn’t even sleep at night. I’d get two hours’ a night sleep because you just can’t position yourself in the bed. And I just looked at the scripture and I noticed something I didn’t notice before. The revelation hit me and that is we have to decree and set the terms. Jesus said to that plant, the fig tree that “You will not produce any more fruit and you will wither and die.” He decreed and set the terms and it died. And the next time when they came back it was dead. The plant was gone. All the disciples were jumping up and crazy about that one miracle. Despite seeing all the healings and miracles, and they were excited about that miracle, and it was a miracle on just words alone. It wasn’t the very first time that Jesus didn’t bring something back to life or heal something. It was a lesson for all of us to realize how powerful our words are. And when I looked at that I had seen that, I looked at my knee, I grabbed it, I just put my hand on my knee and I said, “You will be healed. In the next week by the end of this service you will no longer bother me any more. You will not come back again. This day and one night this disease will not come back again.” I said, “You are healed in Jesus’ name. You have no choice but to listen to my words.” I’m preaching, one day I got a little bit better sleep. The second day I’m preaching at night I get a better sleep. The third day, not even bothering me when I sleep, but I still when I’m walking it’s still there. By the fifth day I’m preaching, I hear a beautiful snap just in my leg. That’s the same snaps I was hearing in Louisiana. I was like, I know what that sounds like. You know, faith has a sound. I can tell you right now faith does have a sound and it’s that sound of God just reaching in and fixing things. And I reached down and I touched my leg, and I couldn’t remember which knee was hurting. That’s how good it was.
SID: Okay. There are people now whose knees are hurting. I want you to pray for them and whatever God has for you to pray for healing right now.
DAVID: Absolutely. God told me three things today and that was this, that people are going to be healed, that the Word of God that we preach will not return until it’s void, that the power of God is anointed on these airwaves to your heart, to your legs, to your back. In fact, this morning I felt a strong urge to tell people with back pains to put their hand on their back when we pray. And we’re going believe right now that God is going to heal you. I feel that legs are being healed, knees are being healed. I command cancer to leave in Jesus’ name. And I believe right now with the fullness of God and the confidence in God’s Word, we got to have confidence when we talk about God’s word that it does reign true. And I believe right now that people will be healed. I release an anointing over backs and knees. I release an anointing over the whole body and I command all the hands to be healed, and I believe that God is talking to someone just to listen to me when I say these words. It’s simple. God is going to tell you that it’s simple. Just believe. Just believe. It’s simple. Go to Mark 11:23. Read it and read what Jesus says. If you just believe, that’s all we have to do, that’s all we need to is believe that God will heal and I believe it right now and receive that anointing and that healing that we send out in Jesus’ name. Amen.
SID: There’s enough faith right now coming through your television or your computer that you can make Jesus your Messiah and Lord. It’s a leap of faith. Take the leap right now. Say Jesus, forgive me of all of my sins. I ask you to live inside of me and be Lord of my life. Amen. You and your house will be saved.
SID: David, people call you the igniter of faith and now that I’ve met you I understand why. But why do people say that about you?
DAVID: It’s because I come into a place and I change the atmosphere, and I think the atmosphere from fear and doubt to faith, I think that’s what every Christian needs to do.
SID: You told me the biggest problem you spot in the United States and even throughout the world is fear. Explain.
DAVID: It is. It’s fear. I was in a large church preaching and we had a prayer line, if you could believe this, all the way through the pavilion, all the way out to the parking lot waiting to get prayed for. And they didn’t want me just to do a mass prayer. They wanted me just to lay hands. Everybody wanted people to lay hands. And as I was praying, everybody I asked what are their prayer requests, they said fear. Almost 80 percent of the people said fear. So I prayed and I learned that, I talked to the pastors and said, you got to start preaching that fear out of your church and out of your people’s lives.
SID: How do you get rid of fear? I mean, it’s easy to say that.
DAVID: Yeah, it’s easy to say it.
SID: Your problem is fear. But how do you get rid of it?
DAVID: You start believing. Whatever you believe, faith and fear can both receive. If you give fear and give into fear, start feeding fear, well whatever fear dictates for your life is going to happen because you’re feeding with your thoughts and your actions. But if feed faith and feeding faith is believing the scriptures. Feeding faith is believing what Jesus said. Anything you ask in my name I will do it.
SID: You know, it’s so simple you need to help to get confused.
SID: And that’s what you’re known for. You teach simply and you get the same results in the Bible.
DAVID: Absolutely. Absolutely. When we’re preaching out there I try and make sure that I keep it
where the people could just grasp it because there’s a lot of people out there that do fight with fear and fear has other friends that come with it. Fear has doubt. Fear has oppression. Fear has depression. All these things come in and they keep you from being, you have to wake up. I’m not saying you got to jump out of bed and say I’m excited for faith. That’s a good thing to do. But get up and know. The Bible says in Nahum 1:7, “God knows him that trusts in him.” You got to know that God knows you.
SID: When you know the promises of God and you get rid of fear, what’s possible?
SID: Tell me the truth. You go to a lot of countries and you see some horrible physical conditions. Anyone ever get before you and you say, oh God, I believe in miracles, but this is too much.
DAVID: When I am walking in that anointing, everybody tells me that, when I walk in the anointing, when I’m out there I’m a different person. I’m just walking. I’m believing God for anything. Nothing is impossible. I had a lady come up with a very crooked arm I’m drinking a Sprite after the entire service, cooling off inside the church. She comes to me and she comes after the service all walking slow and just showing me her hand. It was all crooked in different places. And I pop may hand out, and I say, “Put your hand through that.” And she starts putting her hand through it, and as her hand passes my hand you just hear pop, pop, pop, pop until, pow, at the end of where her elbow was it snapped into place. And Bishop Mike that was with me, he said there was a fireball that when I put my hand out, he just seen a fireball glowing in my hand as she put her hand through it. And she was healed instantly.
SID: Now we perceive by faith in the integrity of the Word of God, but you don’t have a clue what’s going on in the invisible world by you just being obedient. What you just said is literally God, because he found someone willing to believe his Word put a fireball in there.
DAVID: Absolutely. If you look at the Bible, you look at Jesus, you look at Paul, those are two men that operate in creativity. If you looked at Jesus you wouldn’t have gotten basins and said, hey, fill those up with water and then you got wine. It doesn’t sound like it makes sense. You don’t know why you’re doing it, but the people believed him, they went and did it, and they got wine. You look at Paul. The Bible says that God brought special miracles through the hands of Paul. He took his apron, tore it up, sent it out to people to get healed inside their own homes. He’s the original TV evangelist. He was able to take all the anointing that we take and put it into people’s living rooms. It was the same thing back then by taking his apron and sending miracles.
SID: Now this guy, he so ignites your faith that when he speaks he’s even had a whole city get healed. Tell me about that, in India.
DAVID: Oh absolutely. In India, in Badapada, I preached there. There’s 500 people in attendance. There’s about 500 people outside in villages: Hindu, Muslim and Christian. We preached there and that was the first place that I preached a hundred percent working power. And I’ve said that everybody can be healed. Jesus had it. Jesus would talk into a city and all villages would be healed, and God honored what I preached. I got home three weeks later, and I only had those 500 in there, and the people that were inside the building, but when I got back home they called me back and said a thousand people got healed because the whole village was healed. They were so ignited in their faith, like we talked earlier, they were so ignited in their faith all the preachers and Christians went out to look for people to pray for. That’s what you want to do. And when I went out there they called me back and they said, hey, there’s no one to pray for. Everybody was already healed because there were speakers around the entire city and village. The church put speakers everywhere and everybody heard the message. Everybody heard the message of God and his miracle working power.
SID: God is healing people right now.
SID: Speaking of his miracle working power, there are people who, your fingers, it hurts when you bend your fingers. That pain is just, I don’t know if God sent in a fireball to get rid of that pain. Frankly, I don’t care. But test and see the Lord is good. David, one of the keys you talk about that most believers miss is delayed miracles. They think because nothing happened when he prayed for me, nothing is going to happen. You find different.
DAVID: Oh absolutely. When people are delayed on their miracles the first thing that happens to them is it compounds it with more doubt. They go to the service, they didn’t see a physical thing happen and they go home and they start getting all sad and get in a pity party, but you know, you got to believing. The Bible says when Daniel was praying that the moment he prayed, the moment he prayed God sent the angel. The second that he put his knee down and said, “Father, I need this,” the angel came forward. But it also says in that same scripture that for 21 days the devil stopped him. That’s a delayed miracle. It eventually got to him. I want to tell everybody this that the devil can’t stop what you’re faith released. He can’t stop it. He can’t stop it. He can’t keep it away from you forever.
SID: So you’re not moved by what you see with your eyes. You’re only moved by the integrity of the Living God and his Word. Tell me about one person that had a delayed miracle.
DAVID: This is a wonderful story of a young boy in India that came running through. All these kids rush me when I’m praying. The adults just go through the line, but the kids are able to run. They have fun in church and they run by. And there was a little boy and I could see that he was walking a little different. I could see that he was a little bit off on some of the stuff. And I just laid a hand on him like this, that’s as quick as I could go, and he took off. Well do you know that two hours later I’m in Badapada. I’m preaching over there 80 kilometers from where I ministered and he’s 80 kilometers from where I prayed for him, and it’s two hours later that he’s walking up the stairs. He has crooked legs. They’re bent backwards in a way and he’s walking up the stairs. He calls his mother crying. His mother thought he fell down again and said, “What happened?” And he goes, “Well mom, I feel Jesus touching my legs.” And then when he got to the top of the stairs she dropped the phone and the mother was frantic, and she said, “What’s going on?” And he goes, “I see Jesus’ hands and he’s straightening my legs.
SID: I’m reminded of the scripture. Jesus said, “Will I find faith when I return to Earth?” I’m going to tell you something, never give up. Never give up. Now it’s easy to preach how wonderful God heals. What happens when you get hit with two physical conditions yourself like David did? What happens then? That’s the real test, where the rubber hits the road. We’re going to find out when we come back.
Sid RothComments Off on Our Guests Mark Virkler & Charity Kayembe
We now return to It’s Supernatural
SID: Okay. I’ve been waiting for you to share this, Dr. Charity. I think it must be a degree of a passion with you. Children just physiologically are better adapted to get dreams than us adults. Explain.
CHARITY: You’re right. They’re very sensitive to the supernatural world. They’re very sensitive to the Spirit because of their brainwave state. Adults, right now, we’re in Beta. It’s like a faster, logical, analytical brain wave state.
SID: Absolutely. That’s where I am.
CHARITY: But then there’s Alpha. And Alpha is a slower more meditative kind of prayerful brainwave state. And when we dream we’re in Alpha. And just as we’re falling asleep at night and just as we’re waking up in the morning, that’s Alpha, when we’re not really sure if we’re awake or asleep and the veil between the physical and the spiritual is very thin. That’s Alpha. Well the incredible thing that science has found about children is that they live continually, day and night, in the Alpha brain wave state up until seven years of age. So they’re not living logically and analytically out of their head, they’re living out of their heart.
SID: I would rather do that myself.
CHARITY: You’re right. They’re living out of Second Corinthians 4:18. They’re living to an unseen realm. They’re living to an inner kingdom. And so we know God lives in our hearts. We all want to live out of hearts and that makes us very sensitive to the supernatural realm that infuses and permeates this natural realm.
SID: Maybe that’s why so many children love our show. I’m amazed, I mean, even at young ages, they’re attracted to It’s Supernatural.
CHARITY: Absolutely. They see into the Spirit. They hear. They are young seers. They are very gifted in the prophetic. You’re right.
SID: Now you teach simple keys to understanding of dreams and the keys work for children, but they also work for all of us. Tell us a few of the keys.
CHARITY: There’s three specific questions that we want to ask about every single dream we have. Number one, we want to ask what is the setting. And we talked about what’s going on in our waking life when we have the dream. And then number two, we want to ask what is the main action of the dream. In the dream, what am I doing? Am I running? Am I hiding? Am I ministering? That’s the key action. And the third question we want to ask about every dream is in the dream, how am I feeling? Am I excited? Am I scared? Am I disappointed, grateful? That’s the key emotion. And then we take the key emotion and action from the dream, and we look in our waking life, and we match it up. Where in waking life am I feeling that emotion? Where am I doing this, and then experiencing these things? Then we overlay our waking life world setting on top of the dream. We see where it matches up. Then we know what area of our life the dream is speaking to. For example, I can share a dream. And it seems silly. It seems like it’s just a pizza [dream] but there’s really, there’s a message in it from God. I had a dream where I was on a pole vaulting team. All the people on the team.
SID: Now you see, if I had a dream like that I’d say, but God, don’t you know I’m not an athlete.
CHARITY: Yes. But then we know to translate we need to look at the picture symbolically, figuratively. It’s all in pictures. So okay, everyone on the team was able to pole vault except for me. I was too weak and I was too sick, and I couldn’t get over the high bar. So what’s the main action in this dream? Well I’m trying to get over something and the feeling is I’m struggling because I can’t do it. So where in waking life am I struggling to get over something? Well in waking life I had actually been talking to God about someone who had said something to me and I was a little bit offended. I’m like, God, should I confront them? Should I tell them they hurt my feelings or should I just forgive them, walk in love and let it go, just get over it? Well God gave me this picture at night, showing me everyone else who was on your team, they were able to get over it. If you’re spiritually strong, if you’re a spiritually healthy person you should have no trouble getting over. Pole vaulting was the picture, but getting over was the problem. So by looking at what’s going on in our waking life and matching it up with the dream we’re able to see kind of what God is speaking to.
SID: You know, another clue that you gave me is that when you have multiple dreams in a night most likely they’re all telling you the same thing.
CHARITY: Absolutely. That’s how it was for Pharaoh in the book of Genesis. He dreams of corn on the cob and then he’s dreaming of the fat cows, and that seems unrelated. They have nothing to do with each other. But Joseph is like, hey, that’s one and the same message. That’s all talking about the same famine that’s going to happen. So when we have lots of different dreams they might seem unrelated, but in one night God is usually speaking to a single heart issue and he’s just showing us different angles, different perspectives so that we can get the message. He’s showing us all different perspectives to communicate the message meaning he has for us.
SID: Mark, you say very strongly we should write down our dreams. When do we write them down, when we have them and wake up, or do we write them down first thing after we finished our sleep for the night? What do you recommend?
MARK: You do it as soon as you wake up. So if you wake up in the middle of the night, 2:00 from the dream, you write it down at 2:00 because chances are you’ll have forgotten most of your dreams by the time you wake up in the morning. And so you write the dream down as soon as you receive it. God loves you to write things down because you’re honoring your heart. You’re saying to your heart, you’re important. You wake me up and I’ll record what you give me. So your heart says, great, I’m going to wake you up because you now honor me. And it’s a way of memorializing it. It’s a way of extending it because you as you begin to write the flow gives you pieces that you forgot about, and you say, there was that.
SID: That’s what I’ve noticed. In other words, it’s almost like the Holy Spirit will bring the recall when you have the intent. I want to know what you told me. Last minute, would you pray for us. Would you pray that everyone watching have sweet sleep and people with sleep problems and remember our dreams.
MARK: Amen. Be glad to. So right now, Father, we just come to you in the name of Jesus, and Father, we just release sweet sleep and dreams into the heart of every single listener here today. And we speak to your heart and we say be at peace as you fall asleep. Give your care to the Lord Jesus Christ and receive sweet rest, deep rest from the Holy Spirit, and we speak to your heart for faith to arise within your heart that you will have the gift of faith to believe that dreams are the language of the Holy Spirit and God is speaking directly into your heart. So I speak faith into your heart right now to believe in the value of dreams, and it’s God speaking to you through those dreams. So Father, we receive those gifts right now. In Jesus’ name we thank you for them. We bless you for them in Jesus’ name. Amen.
SID: God says that he gives his beloved sweet sleep. The question is, are you his beloved? If Jesus is your Lord, if you believe Jesus forgave you of your sins and you say it out loud, and you ask Jesus to live inside of you, I’m going to tell you something, you and I want this to go deep inside of you, you are the beloved of God. You really are.
Sid RothComments Off on Our Guests Mark Virkler & Charity Kayembe
We now return to It’s Supernatural
SID: Dr. Charity, you teach that we are the best people to interpret our own dreams. We don’t have to go to the experts. We have the expert inside of us. His name, Holy Spirit. Explain.
CHARITY: The dreamer himself is the most qualified interpretation expert of their dream because they know what the symbols mean to them better than anyone. You know your association with whatever person or event, or thing. Number two, you know the setting of the dream better than anyone. You as the dreamer know that. The setting is what is going on in your waking life when you had the dream. Setting is everything. We don’t know anything about a dream until we know the setting. So with every dream that we have we want to go back to our waking life and say, what happened that day. What was I was thinking about as I got ready for bed? What was I praying for as I fell asleep?
SID: It’s almost like a lightbulb goes off.
CHARITY: Yes. You have an ah-ha moment. The interpretation needs to resonate in the heart of the dreamer and then you know you have the right message. It just clicks.
SID: Now Dr. Mark, tell me some famous inventions. And by the way, you’re saying, oh I couldn’t come up with an invention. Do you think God could? Does God have any problem? He’s just looking for someone to use. Just volunteer. Say what Abraham said, “Here am I, God.” Tell me some famous inventions.
MARK: Yes, and does God even care about famous inventions or does he just care about your spiritual life, or is inventions part of it all? And it is. Let me tell you about Larry Page. He was at Stanford University, 22 years of age, and he had a dream at night. And in this dream he sees himself downloading the entire Internet onto his personal computer, and he sees some algorithms that are connecting all the different articles like computer code, and it’s showing how he’s able to access and pull these articles down. He wakes up in the middle of the night. He spends two hours writing out what he can recall from that dream with these different rules as to how connect these articles and pull them down. He took it to his professor at college and told him he was going to create this in a couple of weeks and his professor laughed at him. It took him a year of working this dream out. But a year later, he had the Google search bar, which we now all use, which has become the foundation of Google Enterprises, which has made that the biggest, richest company in the world today, and made the founder of it, Larry Page, one of the richest men in the world today because he listened to a dream, honored the dream, got up and spent two hours writing about it, spent a year working it out and now he’s blessed the world with a gift that we all use every single day of our lives, and he’s become wealthy as a result of that.
SID: Tell me one more. I mean, there’s so many. Wasn’t it Thomas Edison that used to take a nap every day and God would show him inventions?
MARK: Yes. Almost every single inventor has done that. And the gentleman who came up with the sewing machine, he couldn’t figure out, he patented the first sewing machine. He couldn’t figure out how to thread the thread in the end of a needle. And he goes to sleep with that question on his mind, and he has a dream of an arrow being shot through a wigwam wall, snaring a thread on the inside of the wall and pulling it back to the wall. He said that’s the way to hook the thread to the end of this needle. And he patented it, and he became very, very wealthy. So there’s another example from recent history.
SID: Mark, what would you say to the person that’s listening to us right now and say, but Dr. Mark, I believe everything you’re saying, but I don’t remember one of my dreams.
MARK: Well that’s really, really simple to resolve. All you simply have to do is you lay there in bed at night, say, “Holy Spirit, would you give me a dream tonight.” Say, “I believe in dreams. I believe in my heart. I believe my heart wants to communicate with me revelation, and Lord, I’m asking you to give me revelation in this area that I’m exploring right now, because you’ve asked me to explore it, and you have wonderful answers.” You go to sleep asking that and wake up, and you put paper and pencil next to your bed, saying to your heart, “If you wake me up I’ll write down what you give me.” If you do that, I guarantee you, you’re going to wake up every week with wonderful stuff to write down.
SID: You know what I found out in your teaching, most people are like me and they just, I’m so pragmatic. If I can’t understand my dream, I don’t want to even waste my time fooling with it. But then what I was thinking from your teaching is there was no expectancy and I got what I expected, nothing.
SID: How important is it to believe you’re going to have this?
MARK: According to your faith, be it unto you, ask and you will receive. So if I’m not going to believe in dreams and I’m not going to ask for dreams then the Bible is clear to say I’m going to get nothing. Because he who comes to God must believe that he is and he’s the rewarder of those who seek him. If I say, I don’t really know if I believe in dreams, well you’re not believing in God speaking from your heart. So you’re getting nothing. You have to take a step of faith and say, look, the Bible covers dreams, I believe in dreams, I believe in the Bible, I’m going to practice living in dreams. It’s as simple as that.
SID: Now also we’re living in a very complex world today. What if, and God knows what’s going to happen today, and he can warn you. Give me an example of a warning dream.
MARK: A warning dream. I was on the phone with a lady who was phoning me from prison and she had a warning dream before she even got saved, from God, which shows God’s tremendous love for every single person. And she was a teenager thinking of going from Utah or Nevada over to California. In the dream, the warning was don’t go to California. If you do, you’re going to go to prison. She ignored the warning. She went to California. She got involved in the drug scene and in a drug induced stupor, she killed her roommate, and she’s now spending a life prison sentence in a California prison, which she wouldn’t have had to do had she honored the voice of God through her dream and the warning of God through her dream.
SID: Charity, you have so opened up my thinking to children having advantage over people like me, children having advantage over everyone in dreaming, and we just totally dismiss this. What would happen if you taught your children that God speaks through dreams? What would happen if your children start telling you what God has in store for them? It’s just expanding my thinking so much. When we come back I want to find, Charity, what you found out, and you have a degree in Biblical Studies. We’ll come right back.
Sid RothComments Off on Our Guests Mark Virkler & Charity Kayembe
Is there a supernatural dimension, a world beyond the one we know? Is there life after death? Do angels exist? Can our dreams contain messages from Heaven? Can we tap into ancient secrets of the supernatural? Are healing miracles real? Sid Roth has spent over 35 years researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid for this edition of It’s Supernatural.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guests say that if you do not understand your dreams, you will miss much of your destiny for the last days. But if you’re like me, these symbol books of dreams, these big books of symbols, I’m just too practical. If I can’t understand I’m going to toss it out. But it’s so simple they teach children how to understand their dreams. And this is what they say. They say everyone can understand their dreams. Everyone has dreams and God is going to speak things to you you’ll never get in your natural mind. You will hear God better than you have before. Do you want to learn? Me, too. Mark, our producers are so excited about your understanding of how we can understand dreams and visions. You say that our dreams are absolutely the easiest way we can hear from God. Why do you say that?
MARK: Because dreams come from our heart and thinking comes from our head. And when we go to sleep at night our heart stays awake and our heart communicates to us without having to go through the bottleneck of our brain. And Jesus lives in our heart. When I got saved I invited Jesus into my heart. So now we have heart to heart communication without my brain muddling up the works. So dreams are simple, they’re easy, they bypass the mind, they give me direct revelation, spirit to spirit, heart to heart.
SID: Well Charity, why are dreams so important?
CHARITY: Dreams are so important because God says they are.
SID: Well that should be good enough.
CHARITY: Exactly. Over and over in the Bible he says he’ll reveal himself to us in visions, he’ll speak to us in dreams, and he says that he’ll open our ears and seal our instruction, and turn us from wrong-doing, and keep us from pride. And I love with it says in Songs of Solomon. It talks about how dreams are God’s contingency plan, because it says that, “When we’re asleep our heart is awake to commune with our beloved.” So when our mind shuts down, we are kind of deified and put in place of God. When that thing rests at night we go to our hearts and that’s where God lives. Ephesians 3:17, “God lives in our hearts.” So we want to live out of our hearts as well and commune with our beloved, and he speaks with us wonderful counsel and revelation every single night through our dreams.
SID: Mark, what about someone that says, I don’t have dreams or visions. That’s just not me. What would you say to them?
MARK: I would say what they should be saying is I don’t recall my dreams and visions, because they do have dreams. Every single night everybody does and they’ve proven that in sleep laboratories. Because in a sleep laboratory they can watch and tell when you begin to dream, because when you begin to dream your eyes begin to flicker back and forth, and it’s called REM sleep, R-E-M, rapid eye movement. And if they wake a person up whenever they see their eyes begin to move and don’t let them dream, after three days they’re going to enter into a nervous breakdown, which shows how important and central dreams are for our emotional well being.
SID: Now most people that teach on dreams have a big book on symbols and all you do is look in the book for your symbol, but you don’t go along with that. Why?
CHARITY: You’re right. People have complained to us and told us, when we try to do that we want to make sense of our dreams and we jump online, or we look at the dream symbol dictionary, we feel more confused at the end after we looked it up. This doesn’t make sense. This doesn’t feel right. And so they’re like, dream interpretation, this is crazy. But the dream symbol dictionaries, they do not take into account your own personal experiences, your own unique perceptions, your own individual perspective on things. For example, if I dream of a dog and I love dogs, that’s great. But if you dream of a dog and you were viciously attacked by a dog, well that’s going to say two totally different things depending on who is dreaming it.
SID: You know what I found? When I talk to these dream experts, so to speak, and I give them my dreams, each one gives me a different interpretation. So what I did, Mark, was I just tossed the thing out except for literal dreams. And I do get literal dreams, but they’re very infrequent. Most of my dreams are the way most of your dreams are, but I’m never going to throw out God speaking to me again. And you make it so simple. Have you heard that before from others, Charity?
CHARITY: Definitely. We’ve tried, to enter the Kingdom of Heaven you have to be like a little child. So if we complicate it more than a little kid can do then we’ve made it too hard.
SID: Now I’ve read a scripture that it says, “The wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous.” Did you know that God is in a wealth transfer right now and he wants to speak to you through dreams and visions? And when we come back, I’m going to ask Dr. Mark to tell us some famous things that have been developed through dreams and visions. But you can get wisdom. You can get solutions to family problems. You can get business ideas. I mean, let’s face it. If every night you could hear from God it would be heaven on Earth. We’ll be right back.
Sid: I have a guest this week that is going get to your thinking straightened out because there is so much confusion in what is called “Word of Faith Teaching.” Let me tell you a little bit about myself. You know when Jewish people, and that’s my background I’m Jewish. When Jewish people come to the Lord if you will we’re at the mercy of the people that lead us to the Lord. If someone happens to be Catholic that leads us to the Lord we end up being Catholic. If they happen to be charismatic we end up being charismatic. If they happen to be fundamental we end up being fundamental. Well many of the people that came into my path when I became a new believer were into Word of Faith Teaching. I jumped in hook, line, and sinker, but I have a very pragmatic side and I found for me that it wasn’t working. It was working for others because I heard them say it, but for me it wasn’t working. I kind of distanced myself from it, then I had an unfortunate thing happen. A friend of mine that was very strong in the Word of Faith Teaching, strongest person I know in that arena, died of a serious illness. I was there when he died and the day before he said “I am going to live and not die and declare the works of the Lord.” He was doing everything right, he was dotting every “i”, he was crossing every “t” and that put me in a bit of a tailspin. But here’s where I’m at now, and I’ve been a believer almost 30 years in the Lord and I believe that God is a faith God. I believe that God’s promises in the Bible are from Him and are true. I believe that there is as much healing in the atonement as there is forgiveness of sin. The best thing we have is meditating on God’s word in reference to physical healing, and standing on the promises despite what is going on with the circumstances of our life and get as close to God as possible. I believe through faith and patience we will inherit the promises, but then when the teaching on prosperity came it really through me for a loop because I saw so much lust, and so much greed, and so much the opposite of what I read about in the word of God especially the words of Jesus it really turned me off. So when I found out about Gary Carpenter whose ministry is in Tulsa, Oklahoma it got me so excited. Gary tell me what happened with you in reference to Word of Faith Teaching and in particular prosperity.
Gary: Well I was pretty much like you the person that led me to the Lord brought me right into the Word of Faith movement. I listened to all of the tapes, I went to all of the camp meetings by the prominent teachers we got saved my wife and I and Spirit filled in 1980. We was living Tulsa there’s a lot of conventions here and so we would go to all of them. I was probably taught pretty much the same principles and teachings that you were. The thing of it is the men I still have a lot of respect for, and I’m not sure what they were teaching is exactly the way I heard it. The way I heard it this gospel was all about me (laughing). In other words, the focus was on me, my house, my cars, my prosperity, whether they meant it that way or not that’s the way I heard it. Everything that was taught every principle such as the 100 fold return and we could just go down the list. I’ll say it this way, I’ve been down every one of those rabbit trails. It may or may not have been working for them, you know they say it was and perhaps it was, I never could make it work for me. We floundered pretty much that was what we were, you know what we cut our teeth on when we became Christians. But I got pretty disillusioned pretty much like you say. It didn’t really change for me until 1992 and that’s the year that Sue and I began attending Pastor Dave Roberson’s church here in Tulsa called the Family Prayer Center. It’s amazing the timing of the Lord Dave was teaching a series just as we began there. In that series he was saying “You know there’s really nothing wrong with faith, without faith it’s impossible to please Him.” Hebrews 11:6 I believe says that “Without faith it’s impossible to please Him. He that comes to God must be that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.”
Sid: You know what I like to do Gary is a… what I consider a better definition than the word “Faith” is I usually insert the word “Trust.”
Sid: And when you insert the word “trust” instead of the word “faith,” I mean you have to be stupid to not believe that without trust you can’t please God.
Gary: Well that’s for sure you know. My children if I found out they didn’t trust me, if they didn’t trust my words to them that would hurt me tremendously it certainly wouldn’t please me. It pleases me when they trust daddy, and it pleases our Father when we trust Him.
Sid: So you were exposed to this teaching and what difference did it make?
Gary: Well Dave he said “There’s nothing wrong with the faith movement but now here’s the problem what is decreed by the faith man. ‘Well I’m not moved by what I see, I’m not moved by what I feel, I’m only moved by the word of God.’” Well that’s true but without the leadership of the Holy Spirit you may start down a certain path but it’s not really His direction for your life. So God starts sending all kind of warning signals and flags going “Wrong path wrong way” but you’re a faith man you’re not moved by any of that and so you just keep going. Dave says “Faith is good, God is trustworthy but we are to be led by His Spirit not by our own desire.” Then he began to teach us how we could become more in attune to voice and the leadership of the Holy Spirit, His guiding. As anyone who knows Pastor Dave Roberson very well knows he teaches very… expounds a lot on praying in the spirit, praying in other tongues. What Pastor Dave calls the mortification, edification process.
Sid: But you knew this you had been charismatic for a while, speaking in tongues for a while before you wondered into his church. What’s the difference?
Gary: Oh the difference is tremendous. I think I was like most charismatics in those days you get up in the morning you quote 2 or 3 scriptures, you spend maybe 10 or 15 minutes praying in other tongues and you’ve pretty well had your fellowship time, at least that was most of the ones that I knew. What Dave is talking about a combination of 2 things, he really taught us how to meditate, really, on the word of God leaving every scripture in context, never lifting a verse out of its setting, and he also told us and taught us to spend hours praying in other tongues giving the Holy Spirit time to communicate those mysteries like it says in 1st Corinthians 14:2 “He that speaks to God, he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men but unto God. How be it in the spirit he speaketh mysteries…” but we’re not speaking mysteries to God that He doesn’t understand. The Holy Spirit is communicating with us mysteries that we don’t understand, and a big part of that is our very calling, what is God wants us to do in the body of Christ what it is we are to accomplish for the kingdom while we are on earth. After hearing Dave’s message… now here’s something I say all the time, when I first started hearing Dave a common thing that I said “I have been burned by so many well-meaning preachers in the past. Pastor Dave I love you, I appreciate you but no matter what you say it’s not scripture until I find it (laughing).” So everything he would teach I would take every verse I would go to the Bible, I would check it out. I did that process for about 6 months. We began in June of 1992 and it was December of 1992 before I finally concluded after checking every scripture, checking it in context, I could find nothing wrong with the messages it sure sounded right. So I made a commitment, at the time I was driving long-haul trucks across the country. I said “Lord I’m stuck in the cab of this truck anyway I’m just going to turn of the CB, I’m going to turn off the radio. If I’m in the cab of this truck I’m just going to make it my prayer closet and I will be praying.”
Sid: Now what is the difference you understood praying in tongues before why all of a sudden you were motivated?
Gary: After listening to Pastor Dave I never understood that those long periods of time spent praying in other tongues, that praying in other tongues is a revelation gift. That is one method, a very effective method where the Holy Spirit Himself you know like a teacher in college. Every hour you give Him it’s like a teacher standing at the blackboard communicating and teaching your reborn human spirit everything that Christ is in you, to you, and through you. As I began that process things that I had heard I had heard other men teach these same faith principles and things out of the Bible but the way I say it now “You know it’s hard to live on another man’s faith.” I knew the principles in my head but the problem was I couldn’t make them work for me.
Sid: I’ll get a little sarcastic right now Lord forgive me, it’s easy to leave to live on another man’s faith if you’re teaching it and giving up an offering.
Sid: However, where the rubber meets the road it doesn’t work.
Gary: That was the problem, in fact it’s amazing you say that because in the 80’s, again the late 80’s before I started at Pastor Dave’s…
Sid: Hmm. Hm.
Gary: …I had learned all of those faith principles. I’m a good student, I had studied and learned. I did teach those principles (laughing) I taught them just as well as the men that I learned them from. People would ask me questions I didn’t have to go back and check any notes I knew there message. I knew it in my head but I could not make it work for me, and the big problem there is I really didn’t know the Lord very well. I knew the message but I didn’t know the Lord not in an intimate way, not in a day by day relationship way…
Sid: Out of curiosity with the hours, and you were a truck driver, so you could devote long periods of time praying in unknown tongues. Did your intimacy with God increase as a result of that?
Gary: Oh! My whole world is different, everything about our life is different. All of my… how do I say this, I have no agendas of Gary Carpenter anymore. All of those kind of aspirations during that process died. The more time you spend communicating and fellowshipping with the Holy Spirit that the more intimate relationship He develops between you and the Lord.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone if you’re not red hot by the time you listen to this week’s broadcast or read his book “Future Wave” you will be. His name is Ed Hindson he’s the assistant chancellor at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. He is the new dean of the Tim LaHaye School of Prophecy in Lynchburg. His specialty as you might guess is Bible Prophecy end-time scenarios. He’s teamed up with a futurist a high-tech man by the name of Lee Frederickson come out with a brand new book called “Future Wave” that the greatest science fiction writers of our day I don’t think they even came close to speculating what’s available today. For instance, you were talking Ed on an earlier broadcast about implanting into the brain a microchip that would allow a human to become a super human that would have wonderful benefits from the viewpoint of controlling health and helping people to live longer. To be able to get all the information in the Library of Congress just by thinking a thought and the computer chip would just be like a regular computer except you’re walking around with it you don’t even have to plug into electricity. Has anyone actually attempted to put this chip inside of a human?
Ed: Actually one of the researchers in this area did have done to himself and wanted to see how this would work, how this could be effective and eventually found himself communicating with himself so much that his own wife got jealous that she couldn’t get his attention. Like a guy who has his face in the computer all the time and doesn’t even want to come to the dinner table, the computer was in his mind.
Sid: But can you imagine if the kid doesn’t have to go up to his room to the computer he could be in the computer as he’s having dinner.
Ed: Exactly or anywhere. It’s going to affect how we communicate with each other, how we deal with each other. Right now on a much lower level for example, people will be talking on their cell phone in the middle of church. It’s not that somebody’s alarm watch went off in the middle of the sermon now, now people are talking on their cell phone in the middle of the sermon because somebody beeped in on them. You’ve got people responding with email devices right from their seat wherever they are. You’re going to end up with people having these things in their brain. Wireless communication transfer of information from one computer to another. This computer is only going to be the size of a computer chip that’s the difference. Somebody could be there listening to you preach the sermon but he could be downloading information about other things. Now the neat side of that is you could be talking about Jesus going to Jerusalem and he could download information about Jerusalem if he wanted to. He could also be downloading the Three Stooges in a movie and not paying one bit of attention to what you are saying. It’s going to be more and more of a challenge to get people’s attention in the future, keep it focused, and keep it focused on the word of God.
Sid: What do you see as the future to education?
Ed: I think the future in education is we’re going to move more and more towards what institutions call today “External Study Programs.” When schools first began to do this kind of thing whether they did it through correspondence courses, or they did it through audio tapes, then video tapes were a big thing. With Liberty we pioneered video education externally fully accredited. There were people that complained “Oh this isn’t real education” now everybody is doing this. Every school in the country has video courses. Now they’re moving to internet courses and pretty soon the information can be transferred right directly to your own brain. You won’t have to pick up and go away to school anymore school will come to you. Instantaneous language translation means you can study under a professor in university that you did not know the language. So that a Gentile for example could study at the Hebrew University under an archaeology professor like Dothan and get all of her information about excavation of Philistine sites automatically in English.
Sid: There’ll be no need to learn a foreign language.
Ed: No it’ll be gone. You’ll have… the “Global Brain” is what the educational technology people are calling it. It’s going to be information on an internet kind of a system, wireless transformation and communication of that information right directly into your own brain. There won’t even be a need for a teacher necessarily on site. The challenge with all of that is that means eventually the people who control the technology will control the mind.
Sid: But in affect today doesn’t television control this generation?
Ed: Oh yeah totally!
Sid: But you’re saying even greater.
Ed: Even greater direct control right into the mind. It’s just like you have to shut your computer off at the end of the day, you’re going to have to shut this thing or its going to be with you 24 hours a day and influencing… you can also communicate the gospel through that means which will be a tremendous opportunity and option for people.
Sid: Now where do economics fit in to the whole education mode of the future?
Ed: Well I think money drives the system ultimately. The educational institutions cannot afford to continue to expand at the rate that they’ve been expanding. Almost all of them are financially challenged and therefore this becomes a cheaper, quicker, less costly way to communicate not only the information you want taught but you don’t need as large as a faculty, you don’t need as large of a library. Students today don’t even go to the library they download everything on their computer from the library. The books are there but nobody’s checking them out. They’re getting all of it off the computer and there’s a lack of discernment in doing that. I’ve found even with students writing a paper for me in a Bible prophecy class like on the book of Daniel. They’ll download… they’ll just type in words and concepts and just pull up whatever is available on the net. Some of it is very legitimate research, some of it’s crazy stuff that some guy put on his website and they can’t discern the difference which tells me that eventually that’s how the anti-Christ will control how people think. Just like a librarian selectively starts to eliminate certain books you just start eliminating electronically certain information and pretty soon it’s not there, and if it’s not there the new generation functions as though it was never there.
Sid: Well and of course the books of the future will all be the internet.
Ed: Exactly electronic books. Lee the co-author of “Future Wave” is a specialist in this area. He says that you’re going to have electronic books and electronic newspapers. They call them e-books and an e-newspaper in which you download this information onto something that looks like paper it might even feel like paper but it’s not really paper it’s a screen. You can get today’s news on it then blank the whole thing out then download it again tomorrow and get tomorrow’s news on it. You can get one book on it eliminate that and bring in another book. If you want to print it you hit the print button and you print the thing. The way we give information and the way we get information changes dramatically in the next few years.
Sid: So someone or some group could literally control what we think, I mean we were talking earlier this week about once the chip is inside of the brain they can transmit… remember the subliminal advertising they used to have in movies were so quick you wouldn’t even see it with your eye. It would say “Buy popcorn” and more people would buy popcorn. They’ll be able to do this with the brain.
Ed: Yeah and that’s the scary part because you won’t even see it flip by for a split second. This will be in the brain for a split second and in there it’s going be more effective you’ll have more people buying popcorn so to speak than ever before. Or doing anything else, that communication could say “Obey the law. Follow the rules.” Or it could tell you to rise up in rebellion and overthrow the government.
Sid: Boy this stuff gets scary. With the positives which we brought out we’ll be able to control diabetes, control blood pressure, control all of the various diseases of society through these chips. There’s wonderful things that will occur but there’s equally negative things that’ll occur. So how should we spiritually respond?
Ed: I think we have to do 3 things:
I think as Christians we have to not run away from the technology. It’s a God given human intelligence that enables human beings to develop these things. We all appreciate the benefits of the lightbulb we don’t want to live with candles anymore. We understand the value of radio and television etcetera so we need to understand the technology can be used for good and find ways to use it most effectively.
We also have to be discerning enough to realize that one of the dangers of technology is you become so dependent on it you can’t function without it. Don’t just sit around with your face in a computer screen all day long whether it’s as big as a television set or as small as a watch. Get out and enjoy nature go fishing, have your time with your family. We can communicate with the world but we can’t communicate with each other.
I think prophetically we have to be discerning enough to realize that all of this is only moving us many many steps closer to a world that can be controlled by an individual and an individual system. Everything the Bible predicts about the coming of the anti-Christ, the control of a global economy and a world government is going to be made possible by the development of technology so we have to understand there’s a danger in all of this as well as a positive.
Sid: Ed you’ve written this book “Future Wave,” do you sense that this is not just an ordinary book, but this is a book that’ll light a fire under people?
Ed: Our hope is that it will help first of all people like me who are not into every nuance of technology. Understand what in the world is going today it blew my mind. Then for people like Lee the co-author who are really at the cutting edge of using technology to be able to raise words of caution to us as to where this is going. Many of the seminaries right now have whole new programs and bioethics and how to raise ethical and spiritual questions and issues that are going to be impacted by the development of technology especially in a biological medical field. But there’s technology going on in the educational field, in the transportation field all of these things are going to impact the way we live life today. So I think the challenge in “Future Wave” is if you don’t understand what’s been happening and what’s going to happen this book is a wonderful introduction.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is the assistant chancellor of Liberty University. I’m speaking to him at his office in Lynchburg, Virginia. His name is Ed Hindson. He’s teamed up with a futurist a high-tech man by the name of Lee Frederickson and they’ve written a book called “Future Wave.” The greatest science fiction writers of our day didn’t even come close to what’s inside this book that is actually happening today in the infancy if you will, but time is speeding up so quickly. Now Ed your specialty is end-time Bible prophecy. So based on your knowledge now of what’s going on in technology and your knowledge of the Bible, what do you think the mark will be? What do you think the anti-Christ will be? Will he be a person? Will he be a system? Will he be a robot? What is your sanctified speculation based on technology and the Bible as to what we will see when that anti-Christ is in operation?
Ed: Sid I think we have to begin with what does the Bible say about him. Then look at where is technology today and then do the speculating about what all of that could mean. I think the scripture makes it very clear that first of all the ant-Christ is a person. He’s referred to as “He” in the masculine as specific man, a man of sin, a man of lawlessness, a son of perdition etcetera. He as god sits in the temple of god claiming that he is god. So you get all of these personalized masculine descriptions. He’s a human being, he’s an individual, he gains control of the world and the world system. Economically, I think technologically, then ultimately setting up a global government and a global military system as well. But on the other you also have passages in scripture that talk about his kingdom about his system, about his government etcetera. Not only does the anti-Christ come under the judgment of Jesus Christ at His return and he’s cast into the lake of fire. You also have the whole system of anti-Christ described symbolically as Babylon that is destroyed and burned up. It’s a city, it’s a government, it’s a place it’s the materialistic intellectual headquarters of the world etcetera. So I think we have to look at both aspects of Bible prophecy. John, Jesus’ disciple way back in the 1st century said “The anti-Christ is coming you’ve heard that he’s coming, but I tell you many little anti-Christ have already come.” The spirit of anti-Christ is already at work in the world it’s that anti-God attitude, that anti-Christ attitude that motivates people to be the tool of Satan to do the work of Satan. Whether that is a false prophet who denies the teaching of the Bible, or whether that is somebody who hates the people of God like Hitler attempting to destroy the Jewish people, or whether it is some anti-Christian movement in society today that is trying to destroy the influence of Judeo-Christian morality in our society. Those attitudes are already at work because Satan is already at work. The timing has not yet come for him to move that individual into power who will then enact the program and the policies and the attitude of Satan worldwide, but the stage is certainly being set in that direction. Now when we take those Biblical descriptions and then we put them with that passage in Revelation 13 that the world worships the image of the beast. Now in the Greek New Testament it’s the word eikon, it could be a painting, or a statue or whatever but some kind of an image of the beast, but the false prophet gives life to the image of the beast. It can speak, it can talk, you can interact with it and it can even respond and hurt you and kill you if you do not worship the image of the beast. I began to see something more like a televised image, more like interactive TV that goes a step further in which you have a 3 dimensional hologramic image that could actually be projected into your living room. So that Tom Brokaw could appear to be in your living room and give you the evening news. In this case the ant-Christ, the world leader, could appear in your living room to speak to you about governmental policies or whatever.
Sid: You know I’m reminded going back to Adolf Hitler it wasn’t natural the demonic supernatural power that he had to motivate people. They would go to these meetings where there would be torches at night and just the whole thing caught the people up into the same spirit that was on Adolf Hitler. You’re saying this could happen in everyone’s living room everywhere in the world because we were talking on our earlier broadcast the languages would be simultaneously translated into the language of the people from whatever country they are from.
Ed: Yeah imagine if he could have communicated that message not just in German to the German people but he could have automatically communicated that message to every language group in the world.
Ed: The exponential development of his following would have been incredible. He would have had hundreds of millions potentially worldwide. There were even some Americans early on that thought “Well he sounds like a pretty good deal. He’s for work and hard work, and good ethics and morality. He wants everybody to behave and cooperate and he’s going to produce a more efficient, more effective economy in Germany. Maybe this would be a good thing.” They could not foresee the demonic devilish attitude that was being communicated. Now the Jewish community certainly picked up on it very quickly because they realized they were the target of a lot of that. Even then you had people as intelligent as Sigmund Freud who was Jewish who was living in Austria and saying “Ah it’s just talk they don’t really mean that. They’re really not going to do that.” Only at the last second before the onslaught was he finally persuaded to move to America. Otherwise…
Sid: Listen even our Jewish rabbis, our traditional Jewish rabbis in Poland were saying “Don’t go to Israel” or in Germany “This is a great country,” even with the handwriting on the wall they chose not to believe it because it was so horrific.
Ed: Yeah and I think there is a tendency in the same direction among American Christians today to say “Oh things aren’t that bad. We’re really not getting into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah it’s a little more than it ought to be but you know it’s recoverable.” Yet many are saying “We’ve already gone beyond the point of no return.” We have a society that is so obsessed with pleasure and self-gratification that law and decency and order, and commitment to God, and the word of God are things of the past. We’ve got a kind of feel good Christianity today that says to people “It don’t matter what you believe just kind of you know… let’s all just get together and sort of sing and dance.”
Sid: It’s a self-gratification that’s slipped right from the world into the church.
Ed: Exactly and it’s come really right from the heart of Satan himself. I have a friend who recently visited a Buddhist monastery and he was curious about it and there was a temple there and there was nobody in the temple but a monk. He went up to the monk and said “Help me to understand what you believe.” The monk said “What do you mean?” And he said “Well your theology what’s your theology?” The monk thought for a minute and he said “Well we don’t have a theology.” “Then what’s your ideology? What are you trying to accomplish?” And he said “Well we don’t have an ideology.” So my friend said to him “What do you do?” The monk thought for a minute and he said “We dance.” All of a sudden he said “It hit me we’re moving in Judeo-Christian circles almost into that same kind of mindless attitude today.” We come to church to sing and dance but it really doesn’t matter what we believe. The danger is once Satan captures the hearts of people he’s got their emotions. He’ll control their mind and ultimately use their body to accomplish whatever purposes he wants to accomplish. All of a sudden we see this descendants of the human race away from family and value…
Sid: It’s like the old story of the frog in the slow boiling water versus the hot.
Ed: You throw him in a pot of hot, a pot of hot water he’ll jump right out, but you put him in a slow boil and he’ll swim around in there until it finally kills him.
Sid: What you’re saying is that’s what is really going on. Let’s go back to the scenario for the future. What do you envision is the mark of the beast?
Ed: I think the mark of the beast is going to be some kind of an external thing that can be seen. The Biblical term in the book of Revelation kragma abrand, a tattoo, it’s not just necessarily something slipped under the skin. It’s something people can immediately identify, these are people that are marked these are the people that are not.
Sid: Sort of like the Jews in Germany who had to wear a Star of David.
Ed: Star of David so they could easily be seen and identified. Had he had the ability to do it today they would have just tattooed that right on everybody. Then you couldn’t pull the star off of your pin and try to hide your identity in some way. I think however if we look at…
Sid: But if it’s on the forehead then everyone will be able to see it.
Ed: See it, yeah. Also then somehow with this thing implant some kind of device in people that can identify their location, can in some ways control their behavior and their physical responses you could end up with a society that is totally, completely, chemically, and computerized controlled.
Sid: This is way beyond Oral Welles’ 1984, way beyond it!
Ed: Way beyond it. Then to satisfy them you dispense physical pleasure to them. You create even if you have to do it artificially the sense of sexual gratification, or physical gratification. You convince them through computerized technology that they’ve just eaten a gigantic chocolate bar and they’re happy. Then they’ll do anything you want them to do. So that’s the scary part of the technology.
Sid: Now what is that famous quote from communism? “Give me a child before a certain age and I’ll make them anything I want.” Isn’t that what this technology will be used with say the next generation of children? Have them totally controlled.
Ed: Yeah you’ve got people right now saying “We should put an identification chip in every kid because then your child can’t be kidnapped, he can’t get lost you lose your kid at the mall you immediately find where he’s at.” Now it’s not as far-fetched as people think so I wouldn’t do that. There are lots of people right now who already have an implanted chip they don’t realize it it’s in their car it’s called OnStar. You get lost you push a button all of a sudden the person comes on and talks to you says “Hey where are you? You’re lost you’re in Philadelphia you’re trying to get to New York you’re on the wrong street you need to go here, go there straighten yourself out etcetera.” We say “Oh that’s terrific!” The chip knows where my car is. Well you put the chip in your dog you know where your dog is. You put it in your child you know where your child is. You put it in you they know where you are.
Sid: As you said earlier this week technology is such that you’ll be able to swallow this chip like a pill.
Ed: Yep so it won’t all that difficult. It won’t even take surgery to implant the thing in you it will implant itself inside you.
Sid: What type of feedback are you getting on your new book “Future Wave?”
Ed: Well people are… everything. Some are thrilled and excited about the potential of using the technology to communicate the gospel. Other people are scared to death saying “Oh my goodness I see us moving into a world of mind control, body control and everything else. I want to know how it will affect my children. How’s it going to affect our kids in our educational system and the next generation?” There’s so much information available on the internet right now….
Sid: I have on the telephone Shirley Smith and I’m speaking to her at her home at North Little Rock, Arkansas. In June of 1995 she got a death sentence from the doctor she was diagnosed with 3rd stage ovarian cancer, 6 months to live. Nothing medical science could do. She began the battle for her life God told her she had to do 3 things, she had to not be in unbelief, she had to stand in faith for her healing. The second thing was she had to rebuild her body and her immune system with proper nutrition. The third she had to reconcile with her son-in-law if she wanted to live. And then she received a mandate to daily come before the Lord and participate in communion the Lord’s Supper. And you began to do this and God showed you Shirley that there were areas in your life you had not released to God. You had not allowed Him to even come in and heal you it was kind of like a spiritual pride and when He began to point these things out to you He directed you towards communion and you found a new power in communion that you’d never seen before tell me about it.
Shirley: Yes okay. Well one day while the Lord was speaking to me about things in those rooms and I explained about yesterday and I’d never allowed Him to go into. He began to tell me about some people in my life and mainly it was a mother-in-law and I had explained rejection there from my in-laws and I said “Lord I’ve already forgiven many of these things you’re telling me I’ve already forgiven her I’ve already talked to her. I’ve already told her that I was sorry for this and for my wrong response. And the Lord replied to me and said “Yes you have forgiven these but you have never released them.” And then I’m thinking about what He said “Release them.” And the Lord spoke again He said “Do you still feel pain when you think of this situation of this person of the comment that was made to you?” And I said “Yes I do.” He said “Then you have not released it.” And I said “Lord I don’t know how to release it if I knew how I would how can I do that how can I release them?” And the Lord and at this moment I’m getting frustrated because I wasn’t get a quick answer and I said “How can I, how can I get a quick release how can I do that?” And I had the communion cup kind of up in the air when I was asking this question and the Lord just profoundly and simply said to me You can release them through the power of the communion cup in your hand. I suddenly had a revelation of a power of the blood of Jesus and the communion. I was so thrilled I quickly said “Wonderful God that will be so easy to do I want to do this.” Okay listen with the revelation of what you just said to me that through the power of the communion cup I can release everything to You. I release everything through the faith in your blood represented in this communion cup.” And I was shocked because the Lord said to me “No, you have to tell me exactly and specifically what you released and explain it to Me.” And you know I was back at square 1 and so through that point on I experience very deep dealings again and painful memories and I just began to just sob out those things but I released and as these hurts would come up and painful memories would come up I would just take the communion cup and I’d say “Father through the power of Your shed blood” and you know the thorns that was put into His head that was the healings of our memories and I said “Lord the chastisement of my peace my peace of mind was upon you and through the power of this cup I release every hurt, every pain” and I began to name the person, I would name what they said to me the rejecting words they said to me.” And when I did that chains of the past began to break off of me.
Sid: You’d think that after all of these years after recognizing and understanding the word to forgive what you did that you wouldn’t be dealing with all of these roots but you’re telling me they really were there.
Shirley: The roots were there and many people and things like to mention people in ministry too because they just forgive and they go on with their hurts because they don’t know what else to do or because they were like me too much pride to even admit they even have a problem.
Sid: Tell me about one of the things God said you had to do and that has to do with forgiving your son-in-law. He said if you wanted to live you had to do this.
Shirley: Right that’s what I did I just began to name the things he had said the things that he had done the last 20 years the ongoing thing with the whole family and as I named those released those those chains broke. And you know finally at the end of the 5 months it was 5 months total I was at sister Gwen’s I had come to my metamorphosis and my rooms were cleaned the chains were broken and I was released to return back to my home. And when I came back to my home the first thing that I did I came back to my doctor for my blood test and my doctor was in shock and he went “What happened to you?” And I said “You wouldn’t believe it if I told you.” And this is my gynecologist not my surgeon not the oncologist I’ve not seen him since. But he said “Well tell me!” and I said “Okay I’ll tell you so I told him everything I just told you and he was so overwhelmed he went “I believe Shirley I believe and I have heard of this but I never knew anybody that it had ever happened to and you are my first miracle patient.”
Sid: Let me read to you Mishpochah because I have in my hand and I might add this is in her booklet that has her entire testimony of how she was healed. A letter from her Gynecologist Dr. Dale Fuller it’s dated June 15, 2000 and this is what he said this is on his stationary:
Shirley is a gynecologic patient of mine and has been for some time and she first presented to my office as a new patient in 1991. In June of ’95 Shirley developed ovarian cancer of which surgery was performed. Stage 3 cancer was found as well as cancer that had spread to the large and small intestines as well as other structures. Shirley declined to receive chemotherapy following the surgery as I advised her. Shirley decided to rely on her faith for healing of this cancer. As Shirley’s OBGYN I have kept a close watch over her by ordering regular annual blood tests and physical examinations. Each test has proven the miraculous healing that has existed in her for the past 5 years. There is no medical doubt that she should have died years ago with the spread of cells and conditions left in her body. In June 2000 she underwent a series of blood work and tests including an MRI to rule out any evidence of reoccurrence of cancer. All tests were negative revealing Shirley to be clean and clear of any evidence of cancer in her body. To this day I am grateful to still call her my miracle lady.
I mean talk about documentation Shirley.
Sid: But let me ask you this question, when God took you through these hurts were they very painful?
Shirley: Extremely, extremely the roots.
Sid: And as you prayed over communion and released each one specifically did you feel them leave?
Shirley: Yes I did, yes I did it was like a chain breaking. You know I didn’t even know I head the chain there. I mean I knew I had bondages yes I never dreamed I had that much bondage and that much you know it was really taking out of the peace of mind. We’re not looking at oppressed things and suppressed things and we can bring…and I learned this in psychiatric nursing but it’s easier to analyze somebody else than to analyze your own self we can push them into our subconscious mind and that’s what I had done to deal with that.
Sid: But let me ask you just a bit about your son-in-law there was a point where you actually wrote out a blessing for him explain that.
Shirley: Yes I did well let me just say first that we have made peace with each other we now have expressed our love, our respect and our acceptance for one another. And later after this reconciliation the Lord instructed me to speak a blessing over their marriage. Well I had never done anything like this before and I had really felt at loss of how to do it and I said “Lord well I’ve blessed them for years.” He said “Yes but they have never heard you do it they have never heard you say those words.” And so I said “Okay.” I began to try to write up you know a blessing and it didn’t sound like anything. I read scriptures I read books on blessing, nothing fit the situation so I was frustrated and so I said “Lord now listen I want to be obedient and I want to do what You told me to do but if You don’t help me I can’t do it I don’t know how to do this so please help me.” And this is another… I mean God orchestrated it was a supernatural thing again my whole story is supernatural this is one of the best parts. Suddenly when I told the Lord I can’t do it You’re going to have to do it for me or help me my anointing or an unction fell on me that just grab a piece of paper and pencil and I began to write.” This did not come from my mind, I repeat this did not come from my mind this came out of my spirit. And I was shocked at what I was writing and this is what happened. My pen just flew across the paper and I was invoking many beautiful blessings and I was amazed while I watched this and I began to recognize so much of so much of what I was writing there was scripture. And I thought “Oh what an awesome blessing because this clearly expresses my heart. So when I finished this beautiful thing I shared it with my husband. The Lord said to me “I want you to present that to them.” Well when I got ready to present this to my daughter and son-in-law the Lord orchestrated this so beautifully I didn’t know how He’d worked with him. And so when I was telling him how it happened he said to me now what exactly, when exactly did you receive this? And I told him and when I told him this it was at 6:00 Sunday afternoon my son-in-laws face lite up and he said “Oh I can’t believe this” because at that same hour the pastor had said “If there’s anyone here who needs to release themselves from someone they tried to forgive but they just can’t get free I want you to come to the front and let me pray for you.” He said “At 6:00 you’re getting this blessing over us he said I went to the front and for the first time I got a complete freedom.”
Sid: I have on the telephone Shirley Smith I’m speaking to her at her home in North Little Rock, Arkansas. We found out on the last few days that she was diagnosed with third stage ovarian cancer. Her abdomen was filled with malignant tumors 6 months to live nothing medical science could do and God spoke to her and said “Shirley if you’ll do these things I’ll heal you.
You must stand in faith for your healing.
You must rebuild your body and your immune system with proper nutrition
You must reconcile with your son-in-law if you want to live.
And then she was given a mandate to daily participate in communion. And Shirley you went to your friend’s house who was saturating you in prayer and when you got there she told you something not knowing what God had told you the day before. What did she say?
Shirley: Well when I arrived at Sister Gwen’s house the first thing she did was offer me the holy communion and she had never done that before and I’d been in her home many times and she’d been in mine and we just never thought to take communion but she did. She said “Shirley I want to serve you communion.” And I thought that oh this looks like a confirmation coming here and so she did. And then she took the table and she set it beside the bedroom door and she said “Now honey I’m going to put this here and you can take communion daily if you want to.” That confirmed my instruction from the Lord.
Sid: You told me that you actually… that the Lord allowed you to look into the invisible world and see exactly what you were dealing with that was manifesting itself as cancer tell me what you saw.
Shirley: Right in yesterday’s testimony I was talking about the 3 things that God said. And when He told me that I would settle my fate you know for this healing. Well I’m thinking “Gosh you know” I said “Lord let’s reason this out because You know my faith level I know how to fight but my faith level Lord I don’t think it’s high enough to fight in that realm of cancer.” And the Lord said to me I …this is so beautiful it was music to my ears “I will accept your faith level where it is if you will just use it and I said “Okay I can do that.” And then I further apologized I said “I’m just so sorry that I don’t have big faith for cancer.” And you know we think that cancer is a fatal thing and the Lord responded to me and His voice came like thunder in my ear and He said to me “Cancer is not big I am big!” And I went “Uh.” Just the reality hit me that no cancer is not big God is bigger” and when I saw in a vision or when I saw in the realm of the spirit I saw this monstrous thing in front of me just like over me and it hit when the Lord said that it hit the floor. And when it did I put my foot on it and I said “You are under my feet and I trample and I tread on you in the name of the Lord and you stay under my feet.” And that was a spirit of fear that had told me in my mind so many hours and days here. And that’s what I saw in the realm of the spirit. So when I was at Sister Gwen she confirmed that I was going to daily communion. You know when I was upset again there was areas in my life that God had not deeply dealt with yet so I was fearful of communion. But I loved the Lord with all of my heart and it’s always my desire to please Him so I just said “Lord I’m just going to step over my struggle with fear here to obey you” and so I did. And I met, and oh it was so beautiful just a few weeks later the miracle began to unfold. And the Holy Spirit and truth He is the Spirit of truth. Truth met me daily at the communion table and once again the Lord and I began to come into an intimate relationship on daily basis. And I was brought face to face with my healer and my revealer. And one day the Lord asked me a question and He said “Are you ready to allow me to go into the rooms of your heart where I’ve never been, the rooms that you have never given me entrance to. And a different truth at that point had begun to dawn on me. And I began to realize that He wanted to heal me emotionally as well as physically so I just quickly whispered “Yes Lord let’s go in.” I embraced it and you know I know the potter’s wheel I’ve been on the potter’s wheel many times through the years and I’ve learned to trust His hand. Brother Sid I know that God is always on my side and whatever He works in my heart and in my life is always for good and my flesh will scream many times in the shaping and breaking and the remolding but my spirit is always edified my soul is always released. And so I knew I was on the Potter’s wheel so you know I just embraced that and I said “Lord do Your work in me.” And the Lord began to speak to me and you have legal doors in your life and I’ve covered you with grace and mercy many times but now Satan has come to take your life and His hands have been tied now because of my open doors in my life. Because when we refuse to forgive it ties the hands of God Matthew 18:37 declares this. And so I knew that I really had to yield completely everything to the Lord. And then while He was talking to me He brought back to me about the rooms of my heart that He had not had entrance into and I knew what He was talking about. And I want to share a vision here about the rooms of my heart. I sat daily for 3 months going through actually 5 total but 3 really intense going through this daily communion. And confession and repentance and healing but He said to me “I want to go into those rooms.” And so here was the vision “About 4 years before this attack of cancer hit me I was in intercession and prayer and I went into a vision and in the vision Holy Spirit said to me “I’m going to take you on a tour through your spiritual house.” And I said “Well okay.” And in the vision we began to walk through the house and He took me in rooms that had this exquisitely ornate furniture it was just carved so beautiful of finest of woods like mahogany and pecan and you know oak and ebony and I was just very impressed with all that I saw and I said “Oh Lord that is just so beautiful.” And so we went through many rooms like this and then He took me into a room and there was a chair that had been partially carved and the back was carved and the arm was carved along the side was carved and the chisel and the hammer lay on the seat and I looked at the seat and I looked at that and I went well you know Lord you didn’t finish it what happened You didn’t finish carving this? And the Lord just responded to me and said “You never allowed me to finish that you drew back from Me.” And I went “I don’t understand.” And the Lord said “These carvings that you see on this wood you know we’re broken vessels this carving you see on this furniture here is My deep dealings in your life. My dealings meaning My corrections, My instructions My breaking, My molding you by changing your life changing your heart, changing your motives, changing your ministry these are deep deep dealings where I work deeply in your heart to put My nature in you.” Now I went “Okay wonderful.” So we went down the hallway and we went past some of these doors in these rooms and I said I’m waiting for Him to go in and He said “No.” And I said “What’s in that room?” And the Lord said “I’ve never been in there you haven’t allowed Me to go in there.” And I said “Okay and we walked down the hallway and there was another door and I’m waiting for Him to go in and He didn’t go in and I said “Well what’s in this room?” And He said “I’ve never been in there I haven’t been in this one either you have never allowed Me to go in this room.” And I said “Okay and so we walked on down the hallway and we came to this huge room an awesome room like a big ballroom with like marble or onyx floor. And in this room if I can describe this where you can comprehend this is maybe you’ve had an experience like this I don’t know but I saw the shekinah glory of God and I’ve seen this many times but and it’s always like a white iridescent mist and it had a beams of light gold and silver flashing through it. And I could see the forms of people in this glory cloud or this shekinah glory or in this mist. I couldn’t tell you know I couldn’t recognize anybody by the face but I could see that there were many in this and I said “Now Lord what’s going on here and what is this?” And the Lord said “This is my Glory and I’m going to bring you into that.” And that was the end of the vision. So I realized and God began to say to my “You know I’m going to change you.” And He said to me “When I’m finished with you I’m going to bring you into this glory.” And that’s what the Lord did and so it was so wonderful I said “Okay Lord let’s go into those rooms because I desired to walk into the glory.” And so the Lord began to open the doors of these rooms and I knew that behind those doors lay a lot of pain and a lot of hurt.
Sid: You had told me that you were raised in a house that had a lot of abuse.
Shirley: Right, right and so I knew I mean I had dealt with a lot of that I really had through the years but there were roots this is important this is a key. We can deal with a tree we can cut the limbs off we can even cut the trunk off but if you don’t get the roots out it will grow back. And actually that’s what had happened to me I had cut down many things I had taken many things out of my life but I never got to the roots and the root of these was abuse and rejection and hurts that had been very deep in my heart. And behind these doors the image roots were many people that included family, it includes friends other Christians brothers and sisters. And even some ministers and pastors where I had been wounded deeply. And so many things had really been collected over the years and they had just stayed buried you know deep in my heart. And I have to make a confession here and I think it’s important for your listeners and for others that often maybe listening as in ministry, listen to my testimony I want to say I know that I’m not the only one guilty of this but I had a high profile in ministry most of my life. I came in there early in my early 20’s and God’s used me in many many I wore many hats. He’s used me in many different types of ministry and I’ve always had a high profile with TV and radio and etcetera and because of this I just refused to let anybody know that I had these problems you know deep in my heart and in my life. And actually I had a religious pride that held me…
Sid: Hold that thought Mishpochah we’re out of time…